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  1. Beenthere2Hippie
    FERGUSON -- A grand jury has decided not to indict Darren Wilson in the death of Michael Brown, the unarmed, black 18-year-old whose fatal shooting by a white officer sparked weeks of sometimes-violent protests and exposed deep racial tension between many African-Americans and police.

    St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCulloch announced the decision Monday evening. A grand jury of nine whites and three blacks had been meeting weekly since Aug. 20 to consider evidence. The panel met for 70 hours and heard from 60 witnesses.

    McCulloch stressed that the grand jurors were "the only people who heard every witness ... and every piece of evidence." He said many witnesses presented conflicting statements that ultimately were inconsistent with the physical evidence

    By Davis Lieb - AP/Nov. 24th, 2014
    Newshawk Crew

    Author Bio

    BT2H is a retired news editor and writer from the NYC area who, for health reasons, retired to a southern US state early, and where BT2H continues to write and to post drug-related news to DF.


  1. lowdsrtjon
    The TRUTH came out that the innocent homie was a top Gang Banger in his set and hood.I personally don't like cops but I hate these little hoods who terrorize whoever they feel like and then claim its because of there color that they can't get a regular job and such.

  2. Cwb20022
    I don't think the victims gang connections are really relevant. Police are here to help. I think people tend to hold police on a pedestal.when there only human.

    When a cop arrives at a scene to investigate. They know very little about what actually is going on. Usually just the 911 calls. So they have to assess the danger and who's who. And what's what. They are not psychic. And are trained to treat every situation as a worse case scenario.

    Its completly understandable that a cop will put his own safety first. The victim was argumentative and the cop thought he had a gun. The officer approached the situation as it was. Or what he could gather. He felt threatened at took the steps to protect himself.

    What's being proposed is that the cop was racist. Picked this kid out. And shot him point blank for no reason. Not true. Based on the little info he had he made the choice he felt was right. Now, it turned out not to be. But that changes nothing. Hindsight is always 20/20.

    Moral here respect police. There here to help. Don't argue and allow them to conduct there investigation. Especially if a suspected weapon is involved. I know if a cop thought i had a gun and had a gun on me. Id obey him. And if not i know it could end badly. With any cop. Of any color.

    I'm sure there's very very few racist cops that do pick on races. But majority are just normal people trying to get home to there families. Human's make bad choices and mistakes everyday. This is just a bigger mistake that's been blown up by people claiming racism. But the cop did nothing wrong from where i see it.
  3. Nosferatus
    While there are a few police officers who, because of racist tendencies, anger issues, a propensity for using excessive force, etc, etc should not be police officers, it is deeply flawed to automatically assume those to be at play whenever a visible minority has a negative interaction with the police. In this particular case, the subject did behave in an assaultive manner toward police and the officer involved not being prosecuted is indicative of the amount of force being justifiable, especially given the resulting public outcry. Unfortunately a great deal of tension and animosity seems to exist between various groups and minority groups seen to have a collective victim complex, seeing persecution everywhere, more than a few representatives seem to use dramatic incidents, like this one, as an excuse to rage at the world over past perceived injustices that, while sometimes real, probably did not directly affect them personally, and, even if they did, don't justify engaging in destructive behaviour toward their own community. I find it truly baffling that it is so widely accepted for someone to claim that some conspiracy intended to subjugate them is the cause of negative consequences that result from them breaking society's rules. At any rate, I'm glad that the jury was able to reach a sensible decision given the high profile and emotional nature of this case.

    On a side note, a twenty year old white guy named Dillon Taylor was killed by police in Utah two days after this incident, I wonder when that officer's grand jury trial is.

    My point being that this case even potentially going to trial, with no evidence save for the races of those involved, is ridiculous, and the police bending to public opinion like this sets a dangerous precedent.
  4. rawbeer
    Of course everyone knows that black people have some genuine grievances against the police that deserve national attention. This just proved to be a shitty case to base those problems around. And now these looters/rioters are just squashing the whole issue by living up to the worst racist stereotypes, and destroying their own neighborhood, and putting local business owners out of work. It killed me to watch this, especially when so many of these businesses were black-owned. I could give a fuck about a mega-insured chain like Walgreens, but Chicken Fish Grill? My wife used to work with the owner's wife, they were just working class black folk, and now I'm sure they're pretty well fucked. Even Walgreens was employing locals...how are their holidays going to be when they're out of work now?

    I can understand that blind rage drives a few people to this, but most of this major destruction is being done by people who have no desire to better their community. They're doing the exact opposite of that, which is exactly what they were doing before this whole thing started!

    It's not over, and I hate to see where it's going. This isn't civil disobedience, it's a childish temper tantrum. Ferguson is a full on, burnt out shit hole now. And all this proves to the people who needed to be swayed, that is racist white people, is that their prejudices do indeed have a basis in reality. It kills whatever intentions peaceful protesters had. And now back to business as usual in St. Louis, a city, as a local black comedian quipped, "that's so segregated it could serve as a 50's era theme park." (I'm from St. Louis and I hate to see my city held up as the worst example of race relations in the USA. But unfortunately I think we deserve it.)
  5. Booty love
    i think they should have prosecuted him to the fullest. Not because of what he did or didn't do but what the black communitys across america thought he did. The overall safety of the publc is more important than one dudes freedom. The oj jurors got it right with their verdict, not because it was the truth but because it saved plenty of death and destruction. its a sad truth but when there is a rascist issure of this magnitude and the black folks are involved...they will riot if it doesn't go their way. the media also doesn't help in situations like this
  6. Nosferatus
    ^^You raise an excellent point, if minority groups want to be perceived and treated well, part of the responsibility for creating that condition lies with them. It's unfortunate that many people are so lazy as to use stereotypes to form their opinions, and it would be much better if everyone were judged only on personal merit, but such is life.
  7. Gallama
    I think Rawbeers perspective is spot on.

    To Booty Love- Oh really? Don't you see how slippery that slope is? Convicting someone regardless of innocence so others don't riot is an absolutely horrific decision. Do you give a screaming child what they want to solve a problem? No. Then they will assume screaming is a solution. If it ever came to putting the innocent on trial to pacify others our judicial system would be more of a joke than it already is. When you sacrifice freedom for safety, you end up losing both. Take my safety, I want freedom.
  8. Nosferatus
    Booty: How do you see it as right to punish an innocent person to appease the masses, the last time that happened, it resulted in Christianity. Seeing as he was innocent, prosecuting him to the fullest would require either acquittal or introducing false evidence. At any rate, the justice system must never bow to public opinion, but rather ensure the law is obeyed without passion or favour. Personally, I think every attempt should be made to prosecute the rioters, they knew it was wrong to endanger and harm others regardless of how they felt about a given event, yet chose to do it anyway. As I mentioned above, most people who become violent when not defending themself from immediate danger or having been personally provoked were simply waiting to go off about something and/or looking for a way to gwt away with other selfish behaviour.
  9. rawbeer
    Booty Love, with all due respect, do you understand how the judicial system works? You can't prosecute someone just to placate the public. Even if this went to trial there's no way he would have gotten anything worse than maybe involuntary manslaughter. He's a cop, the legal system has to allow cops more leeway to use deadly force because they risk their lives at work and they have a greater need to protect themselves as a consequence.

    I honestly believe there would have been looting either way. It wouldn't have been as bad, but the people looting aren't socially aware black people who want justice, they're the very criminals who contribute to the ugly relationship between cops and blacks.

    Let's be honest - this criminal element is now the biggest problem blacks in America face. Sure there's still a lot of institutional racism, but in St. Louis there are plenty of successful, educated and respectable black people who choose to just ignore the racism and push forward. The city itself is majority black. There's a cultural divide between "ghetto" culture and the rest. "Ghetto culture" values ignorance, violence, intimidation and crime, and when it gets called out they run and hide behind decent people and make up these childish stories, like a school kid lying, "he only had a sandwich!" (see the Myers case where a guy awaiting felony gun charges shot at an off duty cop and got shot back) "he had his hands up and was begging for his life!" It's like a shitty John Singleton movie, real life isn't so black and white. Yes, pun intended.

    It's been said a million times already but white people are responsible for a basically negligible percent of black murders. Black men are killing each other at truly disturbing rates, this should be the first priority of the black community. You can change your own community a lot easier than you can change the legal system, or communities of racist whites who live miles away and never see you. And if black people could eliminate this crime-worshipping, ignorant, violent segment of society it would go a long way in changing cops' attitudes towards blacks in general.

    It's a vicious cycle, sure. But as I said change what you can change first. If you can remove one of the link in the chain you can dismantle the whole thing. Plenty of black people know this but it's not a juicy media story, it doesn't inflame opinion. And that's what American media and mass culture is all about, inflaming the absolute ugliest emotions in us.
  10. Nosferatus
    Actually cops have the same right to use force, deadly or otherwise, to defend themselves or others or to effect an arrest as any other citizen, the only difference lies in what circumstances they can arrest under and (sometimes) their right to carry and use weapons.

    However, your other points are great, people seem to simply not understand a hell of a lot and have a real desire to have someone tell them what they should believe is the truth instead of figuring it out for themselves.

    Further to your comments on the criminal element, I think part of what causes problems for everyone, is a culture that blatantly glorifies criminality, part of society becomes more criminal because of this and the other part becomes paranoid in reaction. Also, as I mentioned earlier, certain minority groups have been turned into overgrown children, learning never to take responsibility for themselves, that it's always someone elses fault. Yes, bad things have happened to people because of some characteristic of theirs that they didn't choose in the past, people are still mistreated for myriad reasons, but ultimately, only you can determine where your life goes.
  11. Booty love
    i don't like taking one for the team either but sometimes...and maybe in this particular situation that wasn't the case but in some situations its not worth the consequenses. this is why the general public isn't in the loop on a lot of shit

    st louis sounds just like savannah georgia, where i was born and raised.
  12. Nosferatus
    ^^ But that would only be reinforcing that the rioters reaction was right, they should be punished as far as is practicable, not anyone else. The way to maintain law and order is to ensure that those who break the law face appropriate consequences. Something must also be done about the myth of noble criminality, Robin Hood never existed, the tie that binds all (with a few so rare as to be considered non-existent exceptions) criminals is a selfishness so great that they have decided violating the rules that one agrees to obey as a member of society is an acceptable way to satisfy it.
  13. Booty love

    yes, yes i do!! if that will solve the problem!
  14. Nosferatus
    There's a reason that state of emergency/war measures provisions exist, in the event that a group is determined to be large, organized, aggressive or otherwise capable enough of unduly endangering the public, they can be treated as enemy combatants as opposed to citizens, a line can be crossed that changes crime to war, but breaches are often ignored in the interest of political correctness.
  15. Nosferatus
    What if it creates a bigger problem?
  16. DeepGreenSea
    I am so disappointed. Truly, heart sickened at the posts I've just read. I just assumed that...

    Well I assumed that most of you wouldn't be part of the problem-the victim blamers. He was in a gang. He threatened the cop. Black people always do this or that.

    Cops have a right to terrify and abuse suspects because they have families? Being scared gives you the right to hurt people?

    And yes of course police should be held to the highest standards of behavior-we give them our trust and weapons and the right to interpret our laws. They had damn well be better than the average human being!

    All of your comments seem to suggest that you think that murdered child somehow deserved to die?!?

    This won't change your minds or even affect you at all but I've read most of your posts often and I thought so much better than all of you. And of course you have every right to say these things and more...

    I just didn't think any of you ever would.
  17. Nosferatus
    ^^ Cops have the right to defend themselves and to use force to gain control of someone they are arresting, they also shouldn't automatically be assumed to be in the wrong or have their actions used by others as an excuse to cause mayhem and hamr their own community. Micheal Brown was neither a child nor a murder victim, murder means someone was killed deliberately and without cause, in most self defense laws and use of force policies, preventing death or grievous bodily harm to oneself or others is in fact an acceptable reason to use lethal force. Where do you see the police terrorizing anyone? It's unfortunate that the subject lost his life, but there is no evidence of racism or foul play. People who make the kind of arguments you're making don't want justice or rationality, they want the establishment to always be wrong and to refuse to believe any outcome besides that is even possible, they want to believe that eebers of the groups they believe deserve special protection are never at fault and always the victims, that's just not true, no person, regardless of race, gender, nationality, occupation, opinion or any other characteristic is inherently better or worse, or more or less likely to engage or not engage in any behaviour, than any other, people are people, with equal potential to be good and most certainly to be bad.
  18. Stickemupz
    We have been shielded from much of this in Australia in the mainstream media,
    So all my information has been through online sources; therefore I don't feel right commenting extensively on the situation, beyond my sadness that an 18 year old was killed; murdered or not, it's tragic.

    I've also learnt to not blindly follow a courts decision when it comes to officer instigated violence; it's a problem in Australia too, though our police seem to kill Indigenous Australians in custody more so than African Australian's (still a small minority) in the streets, and get away with it most of the time. So I see both sides I suppose.

    One major thing I've noticed on Facebook, via many American "cop block" style groups and commentary.
    The casual and quite strong racism I've seen displayed truly horrified me; I won't describe any of it for fear of offense. Coming from (seemingly) normal people.
    Have I seen a side of The USA I haven't seen prior? Or is this kind of racism more prevelant than I'd hoped.
    I know racism is a big problem over here in Australia...

    I don't think anyone involved would have wanted all this; atleast I hope not...
  19. Booty love
    i don't understand wanting to be a cop in todays society. you can't be given that much power without being ready to take what ever consequenses come from having it. this guy did what soo many other police officers do every day, in every other major metropolis, he shot and killed a known gang member. the media helped create the rest and the public ran with it.
  20. Nosferatus
    ^^Like I said, cops don't have that much more power than the average citizen beyond arresting for crimes that they didn't witness happen and carrying weapons for the express purpose of using them against people should the need arise, and even that's not true in most of the US.
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