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  1. nEone
    I think sometimes, in the pursuit of science, we lose track of the aesthetic-ideal.

    Kratom tea works. Particularly when bolstered by an initial ethanol-soak. But son of a bitch, is it gross.

    10oz of tea - easy enough to drink...by the time you get to the last gulp, you're already starting to feel the initial effects.

    But the taste lingers, horribly, like a homeless dude chilling next to the liquor store. Unavoidable and shameful...and annoying as hell.

    What is it that drives us to find new methods of assay? Who thought, "you know, if I crush up enough of these seeds, mix them with lime and rail them up my nose, I could totally get high?" Who thinks, "I bet I could get really wasted if I took those pills as a suppository." Who spends time figuring out how to make a good thing better, even if it means taking a harder, grosser, or weirder route

    Turns out - people like us.

    And in general, I'm a believer in "the Journey is the destination." And the weirder the better, my friends. But at some point, shouldn't we be focusing on beauty and simplicity and palatability as well? What's so hard about a spoonful of dry-powder that pushes us to concoct foul brews and constipating gel-caps?

    Maybe it's the mug of kratom-tea talking...but I think there needs to be a discussion about moderation of ideals here...what are we trying to accomplish?

    Who needs a 120x Salvia extract? Alfa has commented in threads before about the absurdity of those things...it doesn't make the drug any better...it just makes it harder to handle responsibly. And yet we make these things. Why make an 89% pure kavalactone paste when in order to use it, you have to water it down? Are we THAT concerned with storage? Is there any argument that the level of processing that goes into making these "advanced" concoctions is in some way degrading the experience?

    I'm no vegan/raw-food idealist...I cook my food. But I also know that there's a tipping-point where processing becomes over-processing. In culinary terms, that leads to hot dogs, trans-fats and corn syrup which in turn lead to empty calories, obesity, and diabetes.

    Is there some analogy to the over-processing of drugs? I'd point at tobacco - look what they've done to tobacco. MJ is getting there now too. I saw a bud the other day that was deep purple with bright orange hairs and looked like it was dipped in sugar....is that still bud? Does no one but me miss the days of passing the pipe around and around a circle until people were sufficiently high? Because the one-hit wonder bud is incredibly anti-social in that respect. (yeah yeah, better for the lungs tho.)

    How do we balance these things? Is it our responsibility to do so...or should we stay the course, and keep swinging for the fences?

    Meanwhile - this tea is working fucking miracles, so I'm gonna go do that for a while.

Comments

  1. welshmick
    LIKING :laugh:
  2. Junket
    "MJ is getting there now too. I saw a bud the other day that was deep purple with bright orange hairs and looked like it was dipped in sugar....is that still bud? Does no one but me miss the days of passing the pipe around and around a circle until people were sufficiently high? Because the one-hit wonder bud is incredibly anti-social in that respect"

    Really really good, potent bud is great. I don't know how there can be complaints in that department.

    Pass it around and around, its still social, you are just even more fucked up then with shwag weed
  3. nEone
    See - I guess that's where I disagree.

    Really good bud is a wonder, no argument there.

    But I remember a day when there was "everyday bud" and "kind bud"...The former was cost-effective, might have had a few seeds, and was perfect for packing fat bowl after fat bowl and getting gradually high while shooting the shit. The latter was a rare commodity, cherished and cause of celebration when it came around, pricey and not to be wasted on a 4-foot-bong-rip.

    Six-pack of beer vs. aged scotch. There's place in life for both. But lately, the focus seems to be on faster, harder, higher.

    As potent and awe inspiring as that is - it's really not conducive to passing it around and around and around, because by the time it's gone around once, everyone is too stoned to pass it around again.

    I guess my point is that if there's beauty in the journey - then by shortening the journey in pursuit of higher highs, we risk losing something - and I wonder if there shouldn't be more discussion about that, since that elusive something is very likely a big part of why we all do what we do in the first place.
  4. Junket
    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand where you are coming from on all this.

    Maybe its just my generation (don't know how old you are) but when there is good bud we still get gradually high and shoot the shit, we are just getting really, really high, and the shit we shoot is just nonsense and we laugh our asses off.

    So shortening the journey may be a bad thing, but as time passes and humans get more advanced, its to be expected. Thats why when you are smoking some weed, you slow down and appreciate music, food, movies, everything more..

    I don't know where I'm going with this at all.. haha
  5. Metomni
    SWIM says it's different for weed cuz your penguins will always get higher. The beer vs. scotch example is a great one though, and I couldn't agree more with what you're saying in this post. :)
  6. Junket
    exactly, like the weed one is the only one I don't really get, like i know what your saying, but you got to love good weed
  7. purplehaze
    I guess my point would have to be that the journey showed scientifically to be more dangerous than the pure drug, more potent, pure product like you said reduces extra harm and the drug can be delivered in a less harmful way.

    6 cans of beer, or a couple shots of scotch.

    The beer would make you feel nasty from drinking that much low % alcohol where-as the scotch would get the job done without so much liquid and liver damage.

    The salvia is just crazy, thats a over kill.

    You theories would be great, but you have to understand (and im sure you do) that the reasons behind more pure and potent drugs is to lessen harm.

    Good clean bud, less damage to lungs. Garbage bud might contain contaiminents, mold etc. That view, would be my view aswell. On this topic.

    But you can still take pure drugs slower, and enjoy the journey with less adverse health effects.
  8. nEone
    I'm with you on the harm-reduction angle. That makes sense and I am not suggesting we sacrifice health for experience, per se.

    But in truth, EVERYTHING takes some toll, and you know what they say: nothing worth having is free.

    It's entirely possible to have good-quality bud that's not moldy or contaminated without being super-hydro-kush. Lower-potency doesn't equate to poor-quality.

    I think there's something contextual that I'm getting at:

    Six beers, spread out over the course of a football game with a bunch of friends makes for a great time. Replace the beer with scotch in that setting and it's a completely different scene.

    A double shot of scotch on the rocks and every man is an island.

    Chew a quid of coca leaves for a coffee-like lift, rail three fat lines of blow, and go dancing...


    It's not that there's no place for high-grade weed or strong booze...There is, and I'm the first to say how much I like a good Kush and some moonshine. But it would be really weird if all of the stores stopped carrying beer and only carried Everclear because that's the purest commercially available alcohol.

    It's that there's often a lot of emphasis on making things stronger without discussing whether stronger is necessarily BETTER.
  9. geezaman
    A few years ago SWIM would have argued no bud could be too strong, but he was younger smoked very regularly and (probably) could not get bud as good as what he gets now.

    He feels today however that SWInEone is right, alot of these higher potency, highly processed products, that have effective natural forms are unnecessary, i.e. SWIM cant see the point to anything above 20x salvia.

    On dropping some bud to a friend around Christmas, and being asked how it was his response was "Its Good, But its Too good."

    The stuff didn't look or smell very special but two or three tokes was enough, where as 6 or 7 was way too much leaving you standing their like a zombie, trying to remember how to function.

    In SWIMs area there is no choice between bud strains, nor bud quality ie kind, mids, hydro that US posters mention. You go to a dealer pay your money and get a bag of bud, that one week might be fantastic and mind blowing and the next quit disappointing.

    SWIM has recently been smoking with a different friend and found the bud they smoke to be surprisingly nice as a spliff can go round a group a number of times and a spliff to yourself still allows you to function.

    Maybe SWIMs just become a pussy toker the past few years:p, he could still out-smoke friends if a point needed to be made, but would end up rediculessly more messed than them in the process:laugh:
  10. alienesseINspace
    If someone wanted to make expensive grade marijuana last longer, one could invest in a vaporizer such as the Volcano. The machine is supposed to minimize waste by vaporizing all of the THC. When the bag is full of vapors, it can be passed around. In social situations, people are able to cut back on how much good bud they pass around while still getting their friends high. I do not know the exact statistics but I am pretty sure someone can vape the same bowl 4 or 5 times before it cashes out. Each person and group of people is different but I hear it's worth the investment and it also does not release much odor. Keeping a place from getting excessively smelly and conspicuous is important when having parties.
  11. rawbeer
    There's a natural tendency to push things to the limit, for whatever reason, and I'll offer a non-drug related example; Fisting.

    Why? I mean, Why would anyone want to jam or have jammed an arm up their vagina or asshole? Well, because some people don't believe there's a limit until they get there.

    Super-potent preparations will fade. There's already a backlash against potent weed strains. Mushrooms are more popular than LSD. Beer is more popular than liquor. Once people push the envelope they tend to pull back.

    Look at the brewing industry in the USA - in the last few decades we've rediscovered all these old beer styles and there's an explosion of super-hoppy, high booze beers. But in Britain, Belgium, and the other places where these styles US brewers are emulating originated the pendulum has swung back to more moderate beers and has remained there for centuries. Sure high gravity beers get produced but the average drinker in these countries seems to prefer the middle of the road 5-6% content.

    A lot of this is quite frankly a product of youth drug abuse. When you're young you want it all, now, but when you get older you prefer to keep your wits about you. You worry more about a tasty drink then one that will lay you out, so you stop shooting Everclear and start sipping beer.
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