Re: Ecstacy Death UK
Thats just, words do not even explain it.
15 year old in a pub, having a drink after popping an "e". I know the liscensing laws are that you can buy a drink for someone underage in a pub as long as its a "present" but the article clearly states its the two 15 year olds, meaning they were served alcohol underage. Nothing however is stated about disciplining the pub that sold them the alcohol.
Also, if its not ecstacy they died from, why does the article adress it as such in the headline, its just blatant propoganda. Notice how he's always referred to as Johnathon, they've done that on purpose to make him sound like more of an upstanding citizen rather than if they'd called him John which makes him sound more average.
Well, what do you expect from the Metro really, its about as unbiased as Nixon.
Re: Ecstacy Death UK
I know drugs are illegal, but 15 year is way too early to be experimenting.
Re: Ecstacy Death UK
What kind of dealer would do that for a quick buck! Unscrupulous! The fact that he was 15 is sad, but the real issue here is the ethics/morals of some drug dealers, selling anything that comes in a pill form as ecstasy, when the chance of MDMA alone killing anyone is minute. Another reason it should become legal because if this is a sign of things to come then there will be many more deaths from all sorts of drugs substituting MDMA in their pills. My gurl had a NDE on what she thought was ecstasy but was really ketamine (she was not near death but injecting a huge amount of ketamine will induce a NDE) She's also been given paracetamol and bzp. How can the government not see the real problem here!
Re: Ecstacy Death UK
I agree with what has been mentioned already. I also find disturbing though, the title of the thread, which I fear was the headline of the article, which is also sometimes all people read. This will leave the impression that ecstasy (MDMA) is responsible for a death when in fact it was a different drug altogether. Perhaps "accidental drug death" would've made a better title.
I have revised the title and added quotation marks around the word ecstacy.
I wanted to keep the title in line with the one the newspaper used - upon reading the article it is clear that ecstacy/mdma is not involved in this death.
Apologies if anyone found the originla title misleading.
Its a shame that the papers have labelled this an ecstacy death.
I wonder if alcohol would get the blame if someone were to sell some sort of poisonous liquid to an under 18 and claim it was beer or spirits??
That's a good point. I bet had someone been sold GHB and told it was alcohol it would must certainly be titled "GHB death" or "Date rape drug death"
Where SWIM is from this paper is provided for free on buses and at train stations, although it isn't a paper you might go to if you wanted the facts it has an influence on alot of people due to its availability.
Perhaps as it was a prescription drug used to help people fight heroin addiction, the "stranger" who sold it were loosing a battle of their own, people can do pretty low things when desperate.
The papers aim is to get as many people as possible to pick it up and read it so SWIM is not suprised it was reported how it was, but SWIM notices there is no further mention of richard burton, SWIM assumes he must have been fine.
A user quoted the article and it mentions that the drug supplied was a Class C drug. Interesting that in that it combination with alcohol was fatal. And here is me thinking that class A drugs were apparently more dangerous.
Agree with much of what has been said.. the issue at hand is that, sadly, things like this are not uncommon.. whether it is an unscrupulous dealer misrepresenting a substance to make a quick buck, or the ignorance of simply not knowing what something is and taking/selling it anyway, or even a user accidentally overdosing and dying because they have no way of measuring an accurate dose of products purchased on the black market. It seems clear to most of us that Prohibition does more harm than good, but it leads to some hard questions- if the drug laws were repealed, there would have to be some way to ensure quality control as with any other medication or substance sold to be ingested.. But decriminalization, which would certainly be a wonderfully effective tool to protect freedoms and keep families intact, without imprisoning people for nonviolent and victimless offenses- but the dealers would still be there, the consistency and reliability still varied. On the other hand- If it were legalized and taxed, it is likely that it would be exploited by the government and the big corporations monopolizing the industry- also a distasteful possibility, although purity/dosage could be regulated as with Rx meds. Along with the logistics, it doesn't appear to be happening any time soon- we are still fighting the medical marijuana battle, and even that has a long ways to go.
However, past and present changes have come about due to the people- social change and pressure on the government (the Revolution, for starters, the foundation of the country in which I live.. repeal of alcohol prohibition.. the end of slavery and changing racial relations and preconceptions.. gay/lesbian partners' rights and someday/in some places -> marriage..) So perhaps the best tool we have to prevent things like this is changing public perception along with simultaneously providing resources to the drug community, as it seems clear we can't count on the government or the law to do the right thing at this point in time. Perhaps the solution to things like this, this senseless death, is- regardless of the legal status at this point- we have to get the message across that legality DOES NOT equal morality, and that drug use should be treated as a personal freedom; drug abuse/addiction as a medical concern. If society could stop looking down on people and isolating them, perhaps effective harm reduction could be more widespread and more widely utilized, with or without the law on our side.
For example, needle exchanges are proven to work in preventing spread of disease, but as of 2003-2005, the number of needle exchanges in the U.S. was actually declining, although the actual number of syringes exchanged increased (CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, C.A. McKnight et. al. of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, July 15, 2005. http://www.thebodypro.net/content/whatis/art9012.html) In addition, safe shooting galleries, methadone or Rx diacetylmorphine programs, pill testing such as Dancesafe's program... these things work. Hotlines to call for information, such as pill identification, overdose prevention and treatment, etc. I was recently told by a friend that he had an unidentified pill, and called Poison Control in order to identify it, and they refused, saying they didn't "provide that service" any longer due to misuse by those looking to abuse drugs. Just recently there was a post by a young man who was given a mysterious orange pill referred to as a "dilly"- Is it actually dilaudid (hydromorphone)? Could it be ecstasy? What is the appropriate dose and route of administration? Myself and others chipped in, and at least he's got the right idea- seeking the information before making a move.. But these services and information should be readily available and treated with respect. Imagine how many people are hurt or killed because they take a misrepresented or unknown substance. Imagine how many teens (swim remembers this distinctly) drive drunk and pass out in secluded parks in the middle of the night- why? Because if swim didn't take her car, they would think she was planning to get drunk or high. Because if she stayed at home and had friends over and someone mentioned something illegal, she would be punished. She remembers all the lies she told, all the stupid things she did, because she was not able to openly discuss her experiences or her needs. It's paradoxical, and of course swim is not proud of it, but she was a stupid teenager and really felt she had no choice. Even with alcohol- think about all the kids who wind up in hospitals with alcohol poisoning because they didn't know how to drink responsibly, and then got to college and drank themselves to a state of stupor, toxicity, or even death. Moreso with all-around illegal drugs, but underage/illegal drinking as well- the fact that it is illegal is the end-all point of any discussion about it, at least in swim's experience growing up. For her to broach the subject of medical marijuana legislation or seek more information on the pros and cons of opiate use and safe injection or find out which drugs were not okay to mix with alcohol was unheard of- "drugs are illegal therefore they are wrong therefore no one should do them." Ha. That viewpoint is not based in reality.
Everyone has their own beliefs, everyone makes mistakes, but I firmly believe they should be armed with all the necessary tools and information to make informed decisions. Like the argument that because you don't believe your teen daughter should be having sex with her boyfriend, you refuse to allow her access to birth control when you discover that in fact she is. Of course, there will always be unscrupulous people in all walks of life, and if indeed someone lied to Johnathan about the contents of a drug, resulting in his death, that is absolutely despicable. Of course, people will be quick to point the finger- those who do drugs get what they deserve (reminds me of the argument that those who get HIV are being "justly punished by God") And I do feel that he, ideally, would have confirmed the ingredients of his pill. But the resources need to be there. Again, due to the stigma I doubt he could hop on drugs-forum on his parents' computer, or ask his mom about it. In addition, the two professions we perceive as being there to "help" us, the medical profession and the law enforcement profession, likely would not have been an appropriate resource either. Perhaps free pill-testing kits/reagents (from what I know, you have to order online with a credit card, and the legal status and possible ramifications are a gray area- or send it anonymously with a substantial fee to have it done and results posted online..), and/or free pill identification at pharmacies and poison control centers, no questions asked. Of course family members will have strong emotions about something like this- Swim knows how devastated her folks were when they realized what she was up to- but by starting with professional and anonymous services, and a cooperative agreement towards harm reduction among pharmacies, doctors, counselors, etc. as well as volunteers and advocates- I know I for one would be glad to put in hours helping out at a needle exchange or providing free pill testing or identification.
Also- not to minimize the death of a fifteen year old child in any way- but notice that the wording of the article states that the drug he actually took (buprenorphine) is normally reserved for "hardened" addicts.. What is that supposed to mean? That because someone has an addiction of some kind, physical or psychological or both, caused by mental illness, past abuse, etc. turned into self-medicating gone awry, or genetic predisposition, or an addictive personality.. the reality is, anyone who has access to and tries a substance can become an addict. The addicts don't decide to become addicts; they are not a self-selected group. And I suppose that these addicts are "hardened" because their addiction is heroin- a drug that, while pharmacologically similar to some of the most popularly prescribed drugs today, is demonized because it is illegal. I doubt an article regarding cigarettes would describe longtime smokers as "hardened nicotine addicts." Addicts come from all walks of life, but of course thats not sensational enough for the media, the only addicts they depict are crude and violent people, living on the streets and harming decent citizens to get a fix. In some ways, swim does not like to talk about her use and addiction history with those who don't already know- because she knows that she will be judged, because it is so personal to her, because it's not something a nice, normal looking white girl is supposed to have done. And because she has, that one can automatically make sweeping assumptions about her past and her present character. On the other hand, I think it is so important in changing perceptions to make it known that there are so many facets to the problem, and so many human lives and faces to represent it. If people can see the addicts who have turned their lives around, through whatever means, who are doing something positive- raising a family, going to school, volunteering, mentoring, helping other addicts- perhaps it is a step in the process of making visible the unseen facets of drug use. Or the functional users, who have more positive effects than negative who never become addicted- many people would like to believe these people don't exist, but of course they do. If people could see past the drug thing and see the real person, perhaps perceptions could be changed- but this too carries risk. With the current stigma, one could lose their respect and credibility, their source of income, and of course even their basic freedom by admitting to such. So we are forced underground, following our own unwritten codes and "laws," and trying to maintain a normal facade to the world while unable to express this thing that is such a huge and important part of our identities.. Sometimes Swim just wants to stand up and scream "I'm a dope fiend" just to see the shock and horror and confusion on everyone's faces, lol. But I do think it is sad that what should be a simple and personal choice, has to place people almost in a lower caste of society. Perhaps this death could not have been prevented- who knows? But there are so many that could, and can.. both deaths in the literal sense, and the loss of so many to the penal system. This makes me so sad.