Haupt-rc distributes lethal 2C-B-FLY

By chillinwill · Oct 17, 2009 · ·
  1. chillinwill
    2C-B-FLY is a psychoactive chemical in the phenylethlyamine family, which also contains MDMA. Just this morning, news broke that a bad batch of something purporting to be 2C-B-FLY has hit the streets and is killing or hospitalizing people with frightening consistency.

    I say, “something purporting to be,” because people are being made sick with doses as low as 1-4 mg and being hospitalized with doses around 8-12 mg. A dealer who is reported to have taken an 18 mg dose died. It’s very unlikely that 2C-B-FLY would be active at all at 1-4 mg doses, so the powder in question is likely to be tainted, or something else entirely.

    When things like this happen, law enforcement and the government usually jump to the message of how dangerous drugs are. I then respond that illegal drugs are made infinitely more dangerous by prohibition, which removes accountability between producers and consumers, and which forces producers to use less-than-ideal techniques to make the drugs. But this case is different. The “dealer” in this case was Haupt-rc, a legally-operating chemical supply company. These companies supply all sorts of chemicals, including illegal drugs, to research companies and others who are legally allowed to purchase them. The actual manufacturer of the chemical is reported to be a Chinese company. Below, you can see a 500 mg bag of the chemical in question, reported to have been purchased from Haupt-rc.

    You can see that the label clearly prohibits “food, drug, household, or cosmetic use,” and notes “Dangerous if ingested!” That didn’t stop the owner of Haupt-rc from ingesting an 18 mg dose and subsequently dying, and it clearly didn’t stop some other people from ingesting the chemical either, so the most obvious conclusion we can draw from this experience is that people who are legally selling and buying psychoactive chemicals (for “research” uses) are illegally consuming those chemicals. I know, shocking, right? Hey, don’t tell me if you could legally buy a 500 mg bag of your favorite psychoactive chemical, you wouldn’t skim a few mg off the top for personal use. Oh, no, not YOU, you paragon of lawfulness.

    The second, and more interesting conclusion is that here we have a case where the drug was produced in a totally above-board, legal, traceable manner, and people still managed to die from a bad batch. So, even the “professionals” get it wrong some time. But look at the difference between the response to this experience and the mostly-nonexistent response to another common tainted drug, cocaine cut with levamisol. In this case, people know the supplier and can quarantine the bad product, even down to the batch number, which is printed on the bag. Because they purchased it legally, they can send the stuff to a lab for analysis without fear of arrest. If this was a street product, all you would hear, if you heard anything, was, “Hey, watch out for 2C-B-FLY, I heard some people got sick after taking it and there might be a bad batch.” Instead, we get a massive, organized, immediate, and above-all, effective response that mitigates harm.

    Edit: Analysis of the substance indicates that it was actually bromo-dragonfly, a chemical that is similar to 2C-B-FLY, but is active at much lower doses, hence the deaths at doses that are typical for 2C-B-FLY. The powder was also found to be only 95% pure (labeled as 99% pure, but we all know vendors fudge, right?) with about 5% synthesis impurities, which could have unknown effects. Additionally, the Chinese lab seems not to have been as “up to professional standards” as one might desire. The semi-clandestine nature of the Chinese lab means that prohibition still plays a role here, since there would be more, higher-quality sources for drugs in the absence of prohibition. What we have here is people using semi-legal means to acquire a prohibited chemical, but since the chemical is widely prohibited, there are few producers, and even the semi-legal ones are sketchy.

    Jack Booted Liberal

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  1. EscapeDummy
    Very interesting this came up. I wonder if his sources are us and bloo-lite? Same pic uploaded in the Warning thread too.. (but I guess also to Erowid)
  2. divinemomentsoftruth
    He brings up some really good points. If illegal drugs were regulated so many problems could be averted.
  3. Swimster
    Some people claimed that it didn't produce any psychoactive effects though. which is strange to me. I read bromo-dragonfly is slightly less potent then lsd, so 1 mg is alot even. It can also last more than a day in it effects. these people must have been very sick.
  4. honourableone
    That picture was uploaded to Drugs-Forum first, and so is copyrighted. The picture in the original article links to the D-F warning thread because of this.
  5. Samadhi
  6. Swimster
    yea...but he said he tested it to be BDF. and took a microgram range dose..

    The way i see it, people who baought "2cbfly" from this source got a hell of a deal! lol. Because it's more potent. Although, it's sad that some didn't realize it..
  7. moñorojo
    Thank you. I don't really get how my friend who dosed correctly after knowing the lab results is a "bad guy" but the guys who took a massive dose of an untested chem are "martyrs"
  8. Samadhi
    I guess swim may have overreacted, but still, it is a little reckless of a move considering the chemical, swim has eaten bromo before, but it was not a cheap chemical and it was synthed by a professional lab...
  9. moñorojo
    My friend also tried BDF previously from a "more profesional", more expensive source. it was weaker than this one, maybe even cut.
  10. Picatris
    BromoDragon Fly is in itself a dangerous substance. If 2C-B Fly is OK, BDF is not. It can be trippy yes, but on a lower dose, the risk is not dying, is to loose your extremities due to gangrene. Anyone using this substance is absolutely reckless.

    I mean, People do love their RC's, SWIM loves his RCs! That is not the issue. The problem is that this particular substance is a poison. A poison that can produce entheogenic results, but a poison nonetheless.

    I would not sleep well at night if one of these days my toes might fall off because of a trippy evening
  11. vantranist

    Everything is a poison my friend :)
  12. Abrad
    Using this particular batch of Bromo Dragonfly is completely reckless. It was found to be 95% pure and there are reports of people suffering severe allergic type reactions to sub-milligram doses.

    We don't know what the other 5% is yet but to me it seems quite likely that it is some kind of toxin.
  13. moñorojo
    False. Human beings make it dangerous.

    I have never heard of this. I heard it happened with high doses. Link?!

    False. Fortunately there are people who have used BDF reasonably. There are reports of responsible use.

    False. Dose makes the poison. Even stricnine can be useful.

  14. moñorojo
    I'd like to read those reports, please.

    Luckily we will know soon. I will be surprised if that 5 % turns out to be more potent than BDF itself.
  15. Alfa
    Potent in effect or in toxicity? If you mean the latter, then i would not be surprised, if the 5% unknown impurity was more toxic than the 95% pure compound. But we will see.
  16. moñorojo
    Then the question is: What compound has such toxicity that can send people to hospital with a few ugs? Can anyone answer that please?
  17. Picatris
    You are right naturally. Nothing is dangerous in itself. Not even dynamite or properly cooled nitroglycerin

    There you go:

    A fatal poisoning involving Bromo-Dragonfly
    Forensic Science International, Volume 183, Issue 1, Pages 91-96
    M. Andreasen, R. Telving, R. Birkler, B. Schumacher, M. Johannsen

    I can't post links, apparently not even to scientific journals. But you can find the paper in google scholar

    One of the relevant bits:

    "The toxicological significance of these concentrations could not be determined due to a lack of similar data in the literature. However, from the deceased's boyfriend, we know that they both ingested 1 mL of the liquid. We have quantified the liquid found with the deceased and found a concentration of 0.69 mg/mL, which means that they ingested approximately 700 μg Bromo-Dragonfly"

    I leave all the deep thoughts to you and your friend.
  18. Alfa
    5% of 18mg is 900 micrograms. 18mg was haupts deadly dose.
    Assuming that a dose of 500 micrograms would be used then there would be 25 micrograms of the unknown substance. The chance that 25 micrograms of something unknown is toxic is extremely low. However, people have died from this at higher doses. Hospitalised or ill at doses in the milligram range. So its logical to assume that a 500 microgram might not send one to the hospital, but its likely to be harmful.

    I guess this is Darwinism at its best. Man must try every possibility. The ones taking the wrong road will damage or die. The ones taking the right road will survive and grow stronger.

    Regarding dose and poison. Here is the original quote from Paracelsus. Hopefully this will put it into perspective. I think you are oversimplifying the quote:
    Now the question is, what is the dose and level of toxicity of this unknown substance?
    25 microgram Botox would kill a small village, so it surely isn't botox.
  19. moñorojo
    Thanks for the link. I did not know about this.
  20. nomud
    Swim is wondering how the aryl sub. numbering is 2,3,6,7 dihydrofuran positions
    on bag photo posted by swiy Chillinwill,is that correct? Swim'd say 2,3,5,6!
    That alone would make swim cautious :{ nomenclature seems wrong
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