1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
  1. 0utrider
    SWIM has been clean for a long time, .. well. a few relapses here and there nothing too serious. However, he thus (?!) recently suffered a bit from psychological issues resurfing that have been hidden for quite a while. He tried venlafaxine (awful, omg !!), citalopram ("i dont give a shit about anyhting").. and other things, nothing worked. Now he relies on psychotherapy and medition as well as changing his lifestyle (the former being the most important.) which also, again, includes getting away from the DF a bit more. uni starts again, so.. yeah.. he will be gone a while, but will be back :)

    However, after reading this: http://www.ibogaine.org/allan.html he plans on trying ibogaine again, as low a dosage as last time (sowhere between 10-15mg) and this time preparing oneself better and focusing more on questions, like things he wants to know, fears, Preparing better etc so he can get a lot more out of the experience.

    here, a few excerpts from the file relating to the preparation of a iboga trip for psychological advancement:

    --------------
    DA: Getting back to the therapeutic aspects of addiction interruption, what does the therapy consist of before and after the twenty-four to thirty-six hours during which they are feeling the physical effects of the ibogaine?

    SE: We take medical and psychological history including biographical information about childhood, but by far the most important part of the preliminary therapy before they take the ibogaine is to get them to recognize the importance of ongoing psychotherapy after they do their ibogaine session. One of the conditions of admission to ibogaine therapy is that the client has made arrangements for continuing psychotherapy after leaving the clinic. We require a letter from their therapist back home indicating that an appointment has already been set and that the therapist is familiar with what the client is doing and what they need to work on.

    DA: What does the therapy consist of after the twenty-four to thirty-six hours of ibogaine?

    SE: The effects of the ibogaine last much longer than the initial twenty-four to thirty-six hours. There is a ten-day window during which the resistance of defenses is softened. During this time there is a great deal of access to one's psychological process. We use the three days after the ibogaine session to do some intensive psychotherapy at the clinic, both individual and group work.


    Generally, clients will spend the first forty-eight hours in the clinic doing an intake interview and a preliminary session, and then the ibogaine session itself After the first forty-eight hours, they will move to a guest house for the next three days while they continue intensive individual and group psychotherapy.


    ........

    DA: Are there other differences between a therapeutic and an addiction-interruption session?

    SE: In a therapeutic session the dosage of ibogaine is low enough that the client has the option to continue psychological processing by speaking and relating to the therapist throughout all or almost all of th
    e twenty-four to thirty-six hour intensive part of the session. This means that the client need not be overwhelmed by the physiological effects of the drug.

    (personally, 12mg is a good dosage for that)..
    ......
    DA: Could you describe more about the therapeutic process in an ibogaine session?

    SE: In a therapeutic session, the client begins the therapy before ingesting the drug by discussing what dynamic she wants to change, what patterns she finds uncomfortable in her life, and to the best of her ability, talking about where the pattern comes from to the extent she is capable of figuring this out at a conscious level.
    She begins talking about what happened in her childhood, what the dynamics were with mother, father, siblings, and anything else that might have been factor - school, religion, friends, and so on. It helps to clarify one's intent before taking the ibogaine. In this way it is often possible to home in on where the patterns came from before taking the drug.

    DA: What happens once the client takes the ibogaine?

    SE: After the ibogaine is ingested, the "walls" and the defenses begin getting softer and looser, and I keep probing with questions to help the client go back in time to where the pattern originated. I try to take them back as far as we can get or as far back as necessary. Some people go back to experiences at four or five, or ten or twelve, and some go back to crib or infancy experiences, or experience around the time of birth. I have not worked with anyone on prebirth experiences, though I believe ibogaine would help to facilitate these memories based on what I have seen of primal and pre- or perinatal processes.


    DA: Can you be more specific about how you take them back and what happens in the session?

    SE: Yes. Once the ibogaine is ingested, I might say "Tell me more about the fears you have now." And they begin talking about their fears
    . And I ask them to take it back in time: "When was the first time you remember having that fear?" They might go back to an early experience; and when it comes fairly clearly, it's very visceral. They are really there in the experience. It's almost like they have been in a hypnotic trance and have regressed to the early experience. And then they usually come back to the present.

    ......

    DA: Does the change in behavior last? Does the person remember what has been learned and continue to apply it'?

    SE: Well, it seems to last somewhere else other than just in the person's conscious memory. I say this because what seems to happen is that the person can remember what happened during the session, but as a practical matter he goes on with his life, and he's not thinking about what happened in his session. Three months later he might find himself saying, "Gee, I just had an experience that I would ordinarily have found very upsetting. But I just sailed right through it without any problem. How did I do it? Oh, I remember. Three months ago when I took the ibogaine, I worked through this, and now I'm not reacting the same way anymore."


    DA: Are you suggesting some sort of physiological mechanism which changes the behavior pattern?

    SE:My hunch is that while we are working with psychological process, there is a physiological, chemical change going on. For example, when working with hypnosis, and a person is in a trance, there is the possibility of reaching the memory on the cellular level, or the level of chemical imprinting. In an ibogaine experience, the body is physiologically and chemically open so that when the memory comes and it is reexperienced viscerally, the chemical correlates of the insight are also experienced physiologically. Perhaps the body chemistry is reset somehow in a way that prevents the repetition of the patterned behavior.


    .....

    SE: That's the thing. I've done a lot of therapy work on myself. I think for people who have done a lot of work on themselves, an ibogaine session is a powerful tool.

    Even though a person might never have taken this drug before, they would immediately know what to do with it if they have done a lot of previous work on themselves.



    .....

    SE: The way I approached my intent in the session was to gather pictures from my childhood, and I pored through them before the session. And so I had these pictures near me as I felt the effects of the drug come on. I started looking at them, and the emotion in those pictures started popping out at me, not necessarily of myself but of the people in the pictures - my father, my mother, and my adopted father and mother. Who they were, and their emotions, just sort of started popping out of the pictures at me.
    ....

    DA: How did you start the session?

    SE: I began with describing the kinds of things that would come up that would cause me to hate myself, and what the feeling was, and my related behaviors. So I began with current stuff, and I went back in time. What came up was not a new memory, but somehow I saw aspects of it I had never seen before, and I made connections I had never made before.


    ----


    SE: In my second session while I was going through what I call "the rages," yes. I became very emotional . . . crying, shaking . . . but quietly so.
    DA: What do you mean "quietly"?

    SE: My body was so zapped that even though I was going through rages I couldn't express the rage in a way that would be visible to an outside observer. My therapist friend had never done an ibogaine session herself, so she was telling me, "Yell at her, scream at her, get it out!" But I couldn't do it; I was not capable of that kind of outward expression.

    DA: What were you feeling'?

    SE: I felt as if I were yelling and screaming and getting it out. but I couldn't make my body go into a rage.

    DA: Are you saying that you didn't have the physical energy to do it because of the physiological effects of the ibogaine?

    SE: Yes, exactly.

    DA: This is an important issue for primal process. Most primalers believe that the Pain must be fully reexperienced. I'm wondering if there is something about the quality of an ibogaine experience that makes the feelings appear subdued from an outside point of view. But are they really subdued?

    SE: They are not subdued, in fact.

    DA: Do you mean a person can have powerful emotional discharge without having to put the physical energy into it? Is the process occurring internally without the external signs?

    SE: Well, the energy is getting into it. I could feel my whole body releasing it. It's just that I couldn't get up and yell and scream and pound my fists. But I could feel it coming out of my body.

Comments

  1. Lukeoca
    OOh Venlafaxine and Citalopram - Swim has been there too - Venlafaxine worked like an anti-physcotic for me (or how I imagined they would work). I couldn't do anything!

    After trying these drugs and doing further research, Swim was later diagnosed with A.D.D - which it seems was the primary cause of his depression (and irresponsible drug rampages when younger :p). e also suffered anxiety since childhood, which is still a problem, but since treatment with a Dopaminergic, Swim has not been depressed like before - he can do stuff - loads! Better than ever.

    Swim is searching for safe anxiety / recreational substances.
    Good luck with your recovery. If you want to chat just message me like usual.
To make a comment simply sign up and become a member!