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  1. Pinkavvy
    RICHMOND, VA (WWBT) – NBC12 has a frightening warning for parents. There's a hot new designer drug on the streets and students right here in the metro-area are using and abusing it.

    It's a hallucinogenic called 25i. NBC12 received some calls from parents concerned about this new drug. Turns out Richmond Ambulance Authority crews treated five overdose cases last weekend alone.

    25i is new to the streets of Central Virginia and new to medics arriving on scene last weekend in Richmond. Five patients were all experiencing effects similar to other hallucinogenic drugs, according to Lt. Jennifer Reese.

    "Violence, episodes of depression, they were unaware of their person, place and time," she described. "We also had one that was experiencing seizure activity."

    RAA has learned two of the patients actually had bleeding in the brain after overdosing.

    "It's extremely dangerous," Reese said.

    For parents the question is: what is it? Reese, who also has a bio-chemistry background, began researching the drug so her crews would know what they're dealing with on a call. She said it does not have FDA approval.

    "It's an experimental drug that was being used to research the path of brainwaves with stimulation," she explained.

    The drug is a dark colored powder that can be smoked or snorted.

    Reese said one of the more frightening aspects is that 25i is a simple chemical structure, meaning it can be easily manufactured right here.

    Once inhaled there's no going back, explained Martin's Regional Pharmacy Manager John Beckner.

    "I don't know that anybody knows what the long term effects are but certainly the short term or dramatic effects could be coma or death," he cautioned.

    The results are unpredictable and will be different in each person.

    Reese said so far, she's heard of one documented case of a patient going into heart failure after overdosing on 25i.

    Feb 17, 2012
    By Laura Geller

    http://www.nbc12.com/story/16964534/kids-overdosing-on-new-drug

Comments

  1. nitehowler
    This new drug will take many inexperienced users lives as it is highly active at less than >1mg.
    Drugs like this are in circulation on our streets and schools due to bad government policies.
    The failed war on drugs is making less harmful drugs hard to source and so these new substances with little research are going to take the lives of our kids and our families.
  2. Pinkavvy
    I can't agree that it will take many peopls lives... there is no evidence or research to indicate that... and we get enough sensationalization and over-dramatization from the media without people of the educated side of the community ringing that bell.

    Harm reduction is the answer here... teach people to be safe, sane, and responsible. :)
  3. Doctor Who
    I Have Been Watching & Waiting for the Last 6 Months Wondering When the 25-NBOM.... drugs Would Hit the News & It's Just as Bad as I Feared!!! Not Many People have accurate scales or are capable of measuring doses at the 300 - 500 micro-gram range!!! You'd think the idiots selling it would put it on blotters or or something! It's very a tricky substance, eating it may not have any effect, it seems you have to let it dissolve under your tongue. It probably ( hopefully ) won't kill a lot of people, but I'll Bet You Anything Lots of First Time users will Freak-Out very badly & media "sensationalization" will just get worse, calling for, of course, More Laws!!! & I Totally Agree that... Education & Harm Reduction Are the Answers!
  4. xiaobendan
    All these sub 1mg substances worry afoaf. He would just stay away but imagine kids on the street after school getting 100mg bags and trying to eyeball it!

    Afoaf used to eyeball 5-MEO-DMT and was that WAS potent, but only for 10-20mins and at doses from 3mg to 10mg.

    These kids are gonna dose, then think they are a fine after an hour and do more. Most don't realize that the new psychedelic amphetamines take two hours to kick.

    Afoaf wouldn't even bother with this shit himself, and he does have a scale now.

    Too potent and too dangerous for most people to use safely...
  5. Pinkavvy
    Did I post this on some media site and am getting common public noise feedback?

    Seriously, folks, let's not start spreading the misinformation here at drugs-forum. There is and will be enough of that in the media.
    Too long lasting and too dangerous? 25x-nbome series actually isn't nearly as long lasting as the DOx series or even some of the regular 2c-x series. Most reports and research indicates 25i lasting 6-8 hours. Yes it is potent, but not as potent as people seem to think. Most reports show that sublingual effects START at 500ug.... with common dosage range around 1.2mg-2.5mg of 25i-nbome sublingually... not below 1000ug except for minimal effects.
    Yes, I agree these substances are becoming way to easy for people to get their hands on and I miss the old school days of rc's being much more secretive in sourcing... and the sources requiring you to prove some kind of knowledge before they would even ship to you.

    Instead of throwing you sensationalist comments about this product, how about we complain about the drug laws causing people to get these substances from questionable sources rather then informative harm-reducing sources.
  6. xiaobendan
    "Instead of throwing you sensationalist comments about this product"

    Woohoo buddy! The daily mail or the sun would have put a lot more fear, sting and bullshit into their headlines.

    Afoaf thinks that was an unfair remark about his comments. Many respected DF members, with plenty of experience and interest in RC's have voiced similar concerns since Bromo-dragonfly and others came on the markets a few year back. There are always inconvenient times when a scale is not on hand and sometime even the best of us are stupid enough to go ahead anyway.

    Afoaf ain't calling for further bans he's just expressing his personal concerns. People eyeball RC's, they shouldn't but they do.

    Afoaf stands by what he said. Even if the experience is only 6-8hrs it's the dosing where the danger is.

    He is worried about the number of new sub or around 1mg( or 2.5mg!) RC's coming out.

    The margin for error is too thin for most people, even DF members who know better...because people eyeball RC's, they shouldn't but they do.

    Yes traditional illegal psychedelics were safer and it's sad they're dangerous to source for people and yes, it's not good how open and well marketed RC's have become. But that's the reality of the game now.

    Is that any reason for AFOAF to be less worried about all these new low dose RC's coming out? No!.

    Point made, bye bye....
  7. Noddy dreamer
    The question I ask is if "recreational" drugs were decriminlized and possibly legalised and made available by government approved companies, not criminal gangs. Would people still want to take these unknown drugs that can cause serious damage, because being in the hands of the criminals drugs like ecstacy, LSD, Cannabis are often mixed with inpurities.


    Or is it like Pandora's Box - once any drug is available it will always be used regardless of how dangerous it may be?
  8. Pinkavvy
    Well... I like to consider myself one of the "respected DF members, with plenty of experience and interest in RC's" that you refer to.... been around here quite a long time... have been involved in the RC scene since the 90's.
    These "sub mg" and 1mg (or even 2.5mg) rc's have been around the block for a long time. No, not the 25x-NBOMe series that is sensationalized by the media in the article above, but other chemicals with higher potential of harm have been around, with much less problems for a long time. DOx compounds have been circulating the drug scene since the 60's and are dosed at 1-2.5mg. People had hemoraging problems with DOM when taken at 160-200mg doses back in the days of STP.
    My point is that there is no evidence other then a blurb in this sensationalist article that 25x-NBOMe substances are as dangerous as people are being led on to believe. Please understand that I'm not going to say they are safe, as there simply is not enough research behind them yet. It's silly to stand around and say there are illegal drugs that are safer though. DOM and DOB are pretty problematic when misrespresented as well, as are so many other things.

    Please LOOK at the article and what it sensationalizes. First, there is no lab analysis reporting that the substance in question was actually 25I-NBOMe, it's just what the kids *thought* they were taking. Next, it describes it as a dark substance that can be smoked or snorted. I have no reason to believe this to be 25I-NBOMe, as in it's freebase, HCL, acetate, and citrate forms it is off white to white. Then it says the experienced brain bleeding after overdosing?? You mean hemoraging of the brain? Due to what? Over heating? There could be many causes of this? Assuming it WAS 25i that they did take (not likely) what ELSE did they take? What medications were they one? How much did they take?

    I am always on the bandwagaon about how RC's should not be made as available as they are. Too many sources out there selling to just whoever.
    But let's not start thorwing blame and making claims about things being dangerous and harmful without some actual evidential reasoning behind it....
    After all... this forum is about spreading TRUTH and reducing harm with facts, isn't it?
    That's what I've been doing here for nearly since 2004... and on other highly respected similar discussion sites long before that.
  9. Phenoxide
    I agree that those are valid concerns. The unfortunate number of posts we get where members are adamant that they do not need a scale, or insist upon measuring out phenazepam with toothpicks is a testament to this.

    I don't think xiaobendan was spreading misinformation by suggesting there are concerns about substances that are active in the microgram range being too readily available and therefore likely to fall into hands that aren't prepared to handle them.

    I also agree that there's a lot wrong with the tone of the original article. The quotes have been selected and portrayed to present the sense of urgency and drama favored by tabloid journalism. A more measured article would've stated that these substances are largely unknown and that there may therefore be health risks, particuarly since the substances are so potent and therefore easy to overdose. No reason for them to mention comas and death as we do not have data as yet to suggest that's a probable outcome.

    Complaining about drug laws is something we do ad nauseam. I don't see why that means we shouldn't also discuss our concerns about novel substances. Just because a drug is new and interesting doesn't mean it should get a free pass from being scrutinized.

    Bromo-dragonFLY has rightly obtained its reputation because it has resulted in a number of deaths, particularly when overdosed. This situation is kinda different in that these substances are so new that we're yet to see what the safety window is like. To my knowledge there aren't any reported 25x-NBOMe deaths as yet, and for the most part reports seem to suggest that those experimenting with this drug are being at least somewhat cautious about dosing. It's certainly not unreasonable to be cautious with a novel and potent serotonergic.

    That's a very good question. I think that in this particular case if LSD was a legally available and regulated substance then you'd cut the mass market appeal of the 25x-NBOMe series off at the knees immediately. These days a majority of people buying these drugs do so because they are attainable alternatives to illicit drugs with broadly speaking similar effects.

    Under such conditions I think we'd actually see the RC scene devolve to how it was years ago as Pink alluded to. It'd no longer be a lucrative international industry, but back to being a small and insular set of people with a common interest in exotica. That's arguably the best place for new substances to be, as that niche interest group act as a buffer that can identify some problematic substances before they reach mass market.
  10. voiceduck
    Dude, its a phenethylamine hallucinogen and certainly does not take 2 hours to kick.
  11. Wayne Brady
    It can take up to two hours to kick in when administered buccally and still take one to a +++. I have seen this in tests. It is notorious for a slow come up unless it is administered up the schnoz. I alwas think of this quote even though it is about a different phen.

  12. VitaminK22
    oh come on, "kids over dosing on new drug"? they make it sound like 14 year old kids are coming home from school, collecting the package that got posted through their letterbox at 10 o'clock this morning, going straight to their room and taking 20mg of some strange powder.
    Who actually believes this shit? iv never tried 25i, infact iv only just found out about it and even i know this article is bullcrap.
    Even if it is true, why are they blaming the chemical, its the kids fault for overdosing and the parents fault for not lookin after their kids properly, shame them, not the drug.

    Then look at it from the chemists point of view, you've just synthesized a psychedelic that puts you in an acid-like trip for 12 hours with minimal negative side effects (so iv read), then some asshole comes along saying "your killing our kids cos they are taking too much of your chemical", id be seriously screwin if that was my chem.

    ps. im not ranting at pinkavvy, just the assholes who make this shit up :D
  13. Aminatrix
    AFOAF has tried 25i-NBOMe on several occasions, and perhaps there were previous batches that were not very strong, but most times he tried 500ug, which is his preferred dosage. On 1 occasion he did 750ug and this experience, while also amazing, was not without drawbacks.

    1 Major drawback is that NEGATIVE sensations seem to be more affected. Senses seem to be amplified by at least 2 orders of magnitude, (with exponential effects as the dosage increases), at 750ug (and 69kg) the smell of cigarette smoke was very offensive, and his friends smoked many times.

    Definitely I would NOT recommend anyone trying > 1 mg at any time
  14. psychedelia
    It says 25i has a simple chemical structure and is easy to manufacture... Isn't this bullshit? Doesn't a chemist need to get 2C-I just to even begin to synthesize 25i-NBOME? Either way, it definitely isn't easy to make. I thought it looked more difficult to make. Certainly not easy enough to set up tons of labs all over the place like we have with meth in the US.

    I hope this isn't the beginning of an emergency schedule for these drugs... I haven't gotten a chance to try them ;)
  15. Aminatrix
    Yes, that has most likely been in the works a while, this is old news unfortunately =/ I think they are going to wait, because if they schedule it now, the DEA knows there are several ready to takes it places, (many other 25I-xxx compounds alone), this is obviously not the best strategy, but more likely they do it so that the public doesn't perceive the DEA to be incompetent. They will need as much favor as possible to pass the new legislation....

    That will probably be extremely bad, and I don't want to speculate and give anyone ideas XD.

    At first I thought this was a much older thread, one that reported some kids made it into brownies. And ate it, then later overdosed. The details of that case seemed not to match 25I-NBOMe, where as after rereading this article, it sounds more likely it is 25-NBOMe :(... Foolish kids trying to snort the powder?? Is anyone as worried by this as I am -.-)


    I didn't know 25i-NBOMe could be smoked? Makes sense I suppose, probably because I get most of my information from here, a harm-reduction thread.
    Smoking is out of the question when talking about doses this small.

    If they were familiar with Foxy Methoxy (5-MeO-DiPT) they may have tried 2-5mg doses, which would be wayyyy too much for 25I-NBOMe.

    @psychedlia - Just a guess, definitely doesn't make great sense, but that's the "officials" for ya: I think when police or officials say "easy to make," that means from the closest precursor. So if they get boxloads of 2C-I illegally (or have boxloads left from when it was legal?), purportedly they would "simply" convert that into 25i-nbome so they can sell it legally (and at substantial profit I would think)
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