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  1. PillMan
    GRAND RAPIDS (WZZM) - What you don't know could hurt your children. Right now, people in West Michigan are buying Kratom, and it's something you need to talk to your kids about.

    Soothing and stimulating; Kratom users have described their experience as a seductive, legal high, and sellers say it is safe. You may not recognize the drug name. It could come in the form of a small package of crushed leaves, a pill your son or daughter left lying around, or a funny tea your friend handed you to drink.

    What is it? It is on the Drug Enforcement Administration's "concern list."

    "It was just kind of circumstance that you came in with your story... and all of a sudden, I get the bulletin that is dealing with it in Florida," Lt. Mike Anderson of the Michigan State Police Narcotics Team told WZZM 13 when we questioned him about Kratom.

    "Usually you just put it in a capsule," said a user from Wyoming, who wanted to stay anonymous. He used it to treat his pain after a spinal surgery. "I'd absolutely recommend it... It blocks the pain, but you don't feel like what you feel with Vicodin."

    No buzz, he says. No harm, no high, no hallucinations.

    That's not quite the way it was described when WZZM 13's Hannah Saunders went undercover to a few Grand Rapids "head shops." They sold her enhanced Kratom pills and liquid extracts, saying it would act like opium and Vicodin. The sellers described the products as "the next big thing." It's a buzz some people are taking a step further, by mixing it with alcohol.

    We had the products we bought tested at the Michigan State Police Narcotics lab. The results show that what we bought contained added chemicals, compared to the plain leaf our anonymous user was taking.

    So where does Kratom come from? The only place it grows naturally is in southeast Asia. Some leafs are sold as is, some are shipped to processing plants in the United States, where chemists make resins, powders, liquids and pills. Then it is shipped here to West Michigan.

    "We're always going to have illegal drugs here. We're always going to have that underground selling terrible things," said State Senator Rick Jones, (D) Grand Ledge, a watchdog for new concoctions like this. "You know, I haven't heard of that one (Kratom) yet."

    Last year, he authored the so called "K2 bill," which is now law. That law allows the Department of Community Health to declare a substance illegal if it is found to be dangerous.

    "These illegal drug makers don't care about health. They only care about making money," continued Jones. In the past, the process to ban a drug could have taken a year or more.

    So right now, Kratom is not illegal in Michigan, but if you see a friend with it, or maybe your child has left it lying around, you should start asking questions.



  1. Li2CO3
    oh god, i really shouldn't read these types of things before i need to do a lot of studying...gets me worked up ! ! and i just dosed my Kratom after a hard night at work !!

    well, it's not the WORST kratom article i've ever read. it got one thing right -- whoever is adding other chemicals to kratom, trying to make more money by making it more 'potent', really don't care about people's health and are going to ruin kratom for the rest of us...however, at its core it is just another silly, naive, war on drugs-type article..........agh......really hope it's never banned in Canada!!
  2. source
    There have been several news articles on Kratom being the next 'dangerous' drug, and it's somehow made its way onto the DEA's list of concerns, even though they know bugger all about it.
    In my eyes, Kratom is a healthy miracle along the same lines as 'Valerian Root' or other herbal remedies that you can buy from a health food store. It has helped so many heroin users kick their habit and stay abstinent from heroin it would be a real shame if it were to be investigated and scheduled.

    Whoever is adding chemicals to this natural plant needs to be shot, money hungry dealers who are just out to make a quick buck and ruin it for us common decent folk who just want help to cure our addictions.

    I posted another news article on Kratom being in the highlight last year if anyone is interested in reading it, the link is:

    Now they are trying to ban.... Kratom?

    Also there was another thread that Pillman posted at the end of last year which is below.

    Kratom comes to Florida: Is the next big drug craze dangerous?
  3. ianzombie
    Ive been using kratom since about 2004, and in all that time it has been on the DEA's list.
  4. source
    That long? Well I suppose that's a good thing then. There are other more serious substances for them to be worried about at the moment I guess.
  5. rawbeer
    I'm really thinking it's time to start fire-bombing headshops, knee-capping headshop owners, forming petition barriers outside of these places, kidnapping the owners' families....

    Oh of course that's going too far. But goddamn this infuriates me! The added chemicals is really the clincher, if they were just selling kratom I would be irritated, yes, but I wouldn't be making violent threats. These people are just scum-sucking assholes with no sense of decency, no concern for public health and well-being, apparently they don't even have a shred of respect for recreational drug users, their sole customer base!

    Headshops are disgusting shit holes that sell garbage for inflated prices. I wish the DEA would just shut them all down, LogJam style, I'd sit in a lawnchair outside and applaude. Why does anyone even go to these fucking places anymore, with the internet? Circuit City can go out of business but these places stay open? I need to open a RedBox for porn and weed pipes and shut these fuckers down!

    Sorry, yet another anti-headshop rant following a negative kratom article - at least this one acknowledges the adulteration and the possible benefits.
  6. ianzombie
    Head shops in Ireland (Dublin) were firebombed. Its really not something that anyone wants to see, but i can understand how a person can feel that way.
  7. Dankitydankness
    I really hope the DEA doesn't step in and start banning it. I have tried it found it to be pleasant. It seems like a great alternative to opiates, and I feel like it doesn't have the same fiendish trait that opiates have that make people constantly think about it. (I have only tried it once though).

    I really hope the government will think logically about this one and realize that a ban would just put kratom on the black market making it a lot more dangerous.
  8. rawbeer
    Head shops in Ireland (Dublin) were firebombed. Its really not something that anyone wants to see, but i can understand how a person can feel that way.

    Damn...let me make it really clear I was joking, although if someone did firebomb a headshop I wouldn't feel bad at all unless people got hurt. Were these firebombings related to anger over kratom or spice getting banned, or were they perpetrated by more conservative people who simply object to drug culture? Or do you not know what inspired them?

    People need to stop focusing on banning the legal highs and instead shut down these businesses, along with the gas stations that sell powerful yet legal drugs to people who are driving! It used to be you needed an internet connection and some ingenuity to get this stuff, which seems like it weeded out the morons a bit more.
  9. thirdeyelasik
    My hope would be that if the government steps in with regulation, they make it like alcohol where you have be 21 and up to purchase or to be in possession of. Although it has been on the DEA's substances to watch list for just about 10 years or so, it seems like right now it is being discussed ALOT more due to the bath salts fiasco. I just hope that the people associated with the Kratom Association step in before states start with the ban hammer.
  10. ianzombie
    There were a couple, possibly 3 in Dublin, and a few shootings in Northern Ireland.
    In the Republic, the initial burnings were, as far as i can remember, carried out under the banner of CPAD, or Concerned Parents Against Drugs.

    However, this is the sort of banner that Republican paramilitary's often go under, and while it is possible that it was actually a group of parents who were pissed off that their kids were overdosing, or getting addicted to drugs like Mephedrone, its just as possible that there were either Paramilitary gangs, or other drug gangs that were noticing a massive drop in revenue who decided to take out the competition.

    I know in one case the owner of the shop was tied up in the back room while the shop was torched.

    The shop at the end of my street burnt to the ground and the owner was on the scene a few hours later and was reported to have taken close to half a million in cash from a safe in the floor.
  11. Placebo effect
    A few years ago, I was wondering why "Krypton" kratom extract was so dose sensitive and felt soooo gooood. Then found out it was laced with O-desmethyltramadol.........
  12. profesor
    A. What chemicals?!?!? This does bring up the specter of the O-desmethyltramadol cases, but as far as I know, that was isolated to a single vendor who was put out of business.
    B. I don't think US narcotics labs can be trusted, especially since the Dookhan case in Massachusetts. What's to stop these guys from just throwing the sample out and just telling some dumb reporter, "it is full of chemicals!"
    C. How many of you are angry at the propaganda and misinformation in the article, yet suspend disbelief are fully willing to accept the bit about "added chemicals?" That's not logical.
    I view any of the claims in there with some skepticism. Just think, if it were fully allowed and legal, reputable vendors could vouch for the purity of their products. Because it can now only be sold as "not for human consumption," there can be no advice about dosing, preparation, and what measures to take in case of a bad reaction, which is why people have to come here to the drug-forum. That's just not right.
  13. ianzombie
    A. The OPS post is a news report. They can hardly answer the questions you ask, although they are good questions. The latest concern is a batch containing opiate medication, there are other threads on this report you can find in the news section.

    B. Its possible, but the batch can be tested by independent sources.

    C. What propaganda and misinformation are you concerned about specifically? Im not sure i understand. The claim about added chemicals is very believable, as has been shown with krypton.
  14. Frmrjunkie
    Have suffered chronic pain for many years. May 2010 I cold kicked all opiates. Haven't known about kratom until I joined DF & would love to try it for pain relief. Doctor keeps trying to push me back on pills, but I know where that will lead & it's not a good spot. Unfortunately the state I live in has made kratom illegal.

    Michigan & Illinois are both just a short drive, but my adversity to head shops has stopped me from trying it. Most mail order companies, at least any reputable ones, will not mail it to indiana. I wish I didn't have such a love/hate relationship with my country! The laws are going in the wrong direction & it saddens me that "we the people, for the people" hasn't rung true for many years.
  15. rawbeer
    Why not get a PO box in Illinois, and get large shipments sent their to pick up? No headshops involved.
  16. assassoid
    There is a porn shop in my area that sells "Vico Zene" (crappy rip-off kratom extract syrup) and other kratom concentrates. I was actually told a sales pitch that went like "this stuff is made by the same company that makes Vicoden"...It's these sort of stores that are gonna get this banned quicker... that and the *grumble* media
  17. SIR KIT
    Time to contemplate stocking up on kratom and kratom seeds! These kratom articles are becoming too frequent.
  18. chronicroaster
    That's fucking great. I live in West Michigan. West Michigan is the most straight edge church going people you will ever find. Thanks to the shitty head shops selling their overpriced 3 year old adulterated kratom now it might get banned.
  19. J-Crack
    I tried Kratom for the first time today. I ordered an oz of Bali powder and then 3 10oz samples of some different kinds (bali, green malay or something, and whatever one translates to pimp strength). Anyways, my friend and I started by splitting the 10 oz bag of the pimp strength first. She dropped me off at school for a mid-term. I felt very very very little effect from it. The effect was a minor euphoria. She picked me up and hour later and we immediately busted open the green malay. God this stuff tasted even worse than the first. We mixed the powder with Gatorade and the result was muddy Gatorade. The consistency made me gag, but somehow I choked it down. We arrived at my house 30 minutes later. After getting out of her truck I asked her if she felt it. Her response was "kind of" and I concurred. Mind you at this point we had both consumed 10 grams each. We came inside and I started reading different threads about Kratom. I kept reading how awesome it was. So our solution of course was that we must need to do more... We choked down 5 more grams each of muddy Gatorade. An hour later, still nothing really... We ended up going and buying some expensive ass roxy's. I still have an ounce of the standard bali powder left. Any tips as to how I should do this stuff to maximize the effects? I would really appreciate any tips you might have!! :) Thanks guys!!!!
  20. PillMan
    First you should go without eating for about 3 hours. Then you can toss the powder in your mouth and wash it down. If you have a tolerance to opiates/opioids then it will take more kratom than someone without a tolerance.

    You can also make a tea out of it which will make the effects kick in faster and harder. There are threads about making the tea on this website.

    If you can't stand to take them either way you can buy capsules to fill up with kratom and take those.

    Keep searching around the forums by using the search engine. You should be able to find anything you need.

    Good Luck
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