Losing good people

By Mick Mouse · Jan 17, 2012 · ·
  1. Mick Mouse
    Well, I started this entry with a head full of anger over a misunderstanding that is causing a newer member to want to leave, but further information has come to light which caused me to re-think, and then delete, my entire post and start over. I still feel that the member in question has some valid points, but these particular areas sort of "come with the territory" when you are posting in an on-line forum. This particular member had complained of receiving neg rep on a post that was months old (I must add that this complaint was done in private and not on the forum) and made when he first got here, and he felt that it was undeserved. He actually has a point, I also think that a person shouldn't be neg repped for mistakes they made in the past and have learned from. It's a real easy fix, people! Check the dates on the posts!

    I also understand that it happens. It has happened to me and it happens to all of us. It is something that you just have to accept. I told this individual that rep means nothing, as long as the quality of your posts are high, the rep will follow. He sees rep as a scoreboard of your progress here, just as I did in the beginning. Just as many, if not most of us did. In the beginning. I hope that this person will stay here long enough to realize that we are about much more that seeing who can rack up the highest point totals, but for some, rep points, friend requests and suchlike are what seems to validate us here. That's OK, we have room for them too, but their experience here will not be as rich as it could be. And yes, I will admit that the "friends requests" comment was a dig at Joe, but we love him anyway!

    This person also had complaints about posts being deleted or moved, threads started and not receiving replies, issues with the moderators, etc. The same things that many of us have complained about time and time again! However, what many members here don't realize is that, quite often, administration does move or delete posts for many reasons, and it is never personal. Posts are moved because they are in the wrong category or belong in a different area or they get deleted because they violate forum rules (flaming, rudeness, etc.). Sometimes, posts get deleted as a preventive measure, in order to keep shit from getting stirred up on a particular subject or between two or more members.

    As far as threads getting started and getting no reply on, I can't count the number of threads that I have started and have received little or no reply! Threads that I was convinced would bring in truckloads of pos rep, and nothing ever comes from it. It happens! You put in work on a thread and post it and wait anxiously for the replies to roll in, and.......nothing. Sometimes, that's just the way it goes. You can re-word the question and hope for a better response, you can bump the thread to bring it back up to the top, or I guess you can get mad and use it as an excuse to leave. I recommended the first two to this person, and I hope that they don't choose the last one, but it is their choice.

    Issues with moderators? Hell, we all have issues with moderators (the unfair, cheating, sons a bitches!). But the undeniable fact is that our moderators work hard and catch 99% of the stuff they are supposed to, while being fair and open in what they do. Nothing is hidden and every decision they make is explained fully and in a manner that is understandable. In addition, if you do not agree with the decision made, the option to appeal it is always available. It actually works too, because I have done it! If you can show a valid reason for your comments or cite/produce evidence that you are correct, decisions can be and are reversed. Our moderators work their asses off to be fair, and even though I have been on the receiving end of their displeasure more than once, they were right and I was wrong. Plus, they do all of this for free! They listen to shit every day, they have to spend substantial amounts of their own time to watch our dumb asses, so we don't end up like so many other sites of this nature-closed down because of lack of moderation, and they pour their hearts and souls into this site (well, we all know they have no hearts and they have sold their souls to Alfa, but that's beside the point!).....FOR FREE! Raise a glass to our mods here, people.

    This person also brought up a point which I found most disturbing and had to step on right away. The idea was that donating members get more attention than non-donating members do. I don't mean the extra privileges that come as a donating member, I mean that members who donate somehow get extra attention paid to their posts, while members who do not donate, or have donated in the past but haven't been able to do so on a regular basis, get pushed to the side or put on the back burner, so to speak. I showed him that the vast majority of members here either do not donate or do so on an infrequent basis, and their donation status has no effect on their value or worth to this site, nor does it have an effect on people replying to their posts. I never check a members donation status, because I don't care! Sure, I want everyone to help support this site, but I also realize that it isn't possible. Your donation status has no effect on my replies or ratings of posts!

    All in all, I found that this person has some gripes that are common to us all ( and are certainly deserving of being looked into), but that are, in all likelihood, of their own making. This does not mean that they should leave, however! Nor does this mean that they should be immediately written off as a troublemaker or a failure. Perhaps we failed because, to paraphrase The Docta, we couldn't explain it simply enough. Perhaps the failure is on this persons part, because they chose not to understand. Either way, there was a failure, and it affects us all. Perhaps we shouldn't point fingers so much, or "he said, she said". Lets not cast blame, lets fix the problem! If the problem can be fixed. Sometimes, that isn't possible. Sometimes, it is best for all if the person does leave. If questions can't be asked or answered in a manner consistent with our rules or if an issue is repeatedly brought up with no acceptable resolution, then perhaps this forum is not the best venue for that individuals needs.

    This member is my friend. They have helped me by answering my questions and giving me information, and I am highly appreciative. I do not want to see this person leave. I have to admit that my view of this situation is somewhat colored by the above relationship and that there are many other details that I have not mentioned here or that are not general knowledge, but the fact remains....we are losing a member who (in my opinion) could grow into a valuable asset to this forum over misunderstandings. Whether they are his or ours shouldn't matter (again, in my opinion!).

    Now, however, comes the next point. Exactly how hard should we try? When does the point come in which you tell yourself that you have to wash your hands and walk away from this one? How far should you be willing to go when someone just doesn't get it? As members, it's easy for us-we just go to a different thread! The Moderators, however, don't have it so easy. They have to sit here and listen to the same old shit, day after day. They have to explain the same things.....day after day. I often suspect that Alfa is the Buddha, with all of the mods being his avatars, because of the patience that these people must have! Seriously, can you imagine Potter as a moderator (or me, for that matter. I'm not known for my patience and reserved demeanor when someone attacks the forum!)? After all, we all love Potter to death, but she can be somewhat....intense at times. Anyway, I digress. The point is (and one I myself would do well to remember) that we can't be everything to everybody, even though we should try.

    Sometimes, whether you are "just a member" or part of the Admin team, you just have to walk away. It happens. We here are not, and can never be, an answer for everyone. All we can do is try to further our mission-which is harm reduction, not being the most popular or having the most points-in the best possible manner that is consistent with our rules and our over-all goal.

    I hope my friend chooses not to leave, but I will understand if he does. Mistakes were made, perhaps on both sides, but that really doesn't matter at this point.

    At least not to me. I'm selfish. My circle of friends never was very big, and now I may have lost one.

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  1. Phenoxide
    That's a very philosophical outlook on some of the common gripes with the forum that arise from time to time. The issue of recieving negative ratings is always contentious as some individuals simply cannot help but take this as a personal attack. This is not what the reputation system is about at all though. Negative ratings aren't there so that we can all scold each other like naughty schoolchildren - they are feedback on how to improve posts.

    I can see why recieving a negative rating for a post made long ago may seem unfair. On the other hand one has to be mindful that content never truly dies here. There will be people reading threads for many years after they start because they are interested in the topic. If a post is still being viewed and a member has some constructive feedback to offer then does it matter when it was written? I've never known a member to protest positive ratings recieved for posts they made long ago.

    So what would I do when I recieve a negative rating? I could throw a tantrum and storm out (and unfortunately some members do) but who does that benefit? I could lash out at everyone (and the staff in particular) for persecuting me. Or I could take a deep breath and think things through calmly. I'll re-read the post and the rating comment several times. Does it make a valid point even if it is not one that I necessarily agree with? If not then I can report the rating for reconsideration by the staff.

    However I've normally found that such ratings given to my posts did raise a valid point. So what to do next? Should I stew on the fact that someone dared criticize me, or should I do something constructive? Maybe I can go back and edit the post to resolve the issue so that future readers won't find the same problem? If the post added nothing substantial to the discussion then I might report it to the moderators for deletion so the thread flows better. And I'll be sure that in future posts I won't do the same things. It's these positive changes to the quality of content that negative ratings are intended to encourage.

    I know that you're standing up for a friend that feels affronted, but with all due respect I'm a little offended by the suggestion that there have been mistakes on both sides in this situation. There has been a substantial amount of contact between your friend and the staff over various issues. By their own admission they have been routinely "pissed off" when initiating these interactions, yet time and time again we have spent hours patiently explaining various aspects of the site and trying our best to resolve the issues. That's part of what we're here to do.

    I recall one such interaction. Your friend enquired about changing their username. Within 4 minutes of recieving the support ticket they had recieved a response explaining that they have the option to do so as a donating member and asking what they'd like to change their username to.

    Instead of recieving a response to that question that could have promptly resolved the matter, a response was recieved some time later saying that they were "pissed off" to discover that Drugs-Forum content is visible in search engines. They threatened to divulge this information to the userbase as if it were some closely guarded secret, when I'm sure it was threads indexed by a search engine that brought them to the forum to begin with. A pretty hostile response, and one that insinuated that the staff had somehow done something awful to them.

    But we turn the other cheek. Less than a day later they had once again received a patient reply explaining how and why such content was indexed, that certain areas of the forum (e.g. the donating member's forum) are not indexed and so more private, reminded that they have the option to change username, and asked once more what they would like to change their username to. No acknowledgement or response was recieved. Not that I was expecting a pat on the back for devoting half an hour of my time to resolving that particular ticket (again, that's part of what we do), but it would have been a more satisfactory conclusion if we could have at least completed the username change they apparently sought, even if they could not be placated with regard to their privacy concerns.

    I ask what more could we possibly do in such a case? Are we supposed to chase them around the forum seeking forgiveness for something they feel has wounded them? If I were to count on one hand the members that we have spent the most time answering support tickets from in the past year then your friend would certainly be among them. We've tried our best every time, so we certainly haven't written anyone off as a "troublemaker". I also think it's maybe a little patronizing to your friend to suggest we didn't couldn't simplify things enough for them to understand.

    That said we're still happy to discuss their concerns with them should they choose. If you'd like to discuss their concerns with the staff and your friend is OK with that then I'm sure we're happy to do that too so that you see the whole picture.
  2. Mick Mouse
    All very valid points! Especially the one regarding pos rep received for old posts, it is a point that was over-looked.

    Certainly, no offense was intended to anyone! I should have worded that differently when I said that mistakes were made on both sides and I never meant to imply that Admin did not work diligently to resolve any concerns. Misunderstandings might have been a better choice of word, but either way, I apologize if you or anyone else was offended. As I said, that was never my intention.

    You laid out, in far more detail than I was willing to, several of the concerns that were raised, as well as the responses that were given. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with any of them, nor do I think they were excessive or unusual in any way. As always, Admin did a fine job in a trying circumstance. That is not meant to sound like sarcasm either, he really was coming across as an ass-hole on several occasions!

    But see, here's the thing-I never said he was right, all I said was that he is my friend and that I support him, and I think his leaving would ultimately be a loss for D-F as a whole. I didn't criticize anyone's actions. If anything, I offered my personal opinion on a situation I feel strongly about. Now, we all know about why opinions are like ass-holes in that everybody has one and they usually stink. Well, maybe my opinion stinks. That's OK, though. I never said that I was right, either.

    Finally, you ask what more you could have done? Absolutely nothing. You did everything that could be honestly expected of you, and then you went further! Often, that gets over-looked though, because not only you but all of the Admin team consistently "go that extra mile" when it comes to member concerns.

    My blog is my opinion...it is my statement on life and circumstances as I see it. As with most opinions, there are times when it and cold, hard truth don't exactly agree. If I hold a particular view and am presented with enough evidence to refute that view, then in all likelihood, I will amend it. Or maybe I won't! Maybe I'll be a hard-head and refuse to see reason. Either way, I will always be open to the presentation of a differing opinion.

    In this case, the member in question was undoubtedly wrong far more than he was right. Even I will admit that. Admin bent over backward to address his concerns and was met with apathy or aggressive posts on a variety of subjects. I concede that point as well. As I said earlier, I never said that he was right.

    Just that I support him. I don't necessarily agree with the way he handled things, I think he was being stubborn and argumentative on several occasions, and I certainly counseled him to reconsider his previous outlook because...well, he's wrong! But I'm not going to walk away from him. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I support the person, but not necessarily his recent actions. Does that make sense?

    In any event, it is what it is. This person knows that he has my support, for whatever that may be worth. If he chooses to stay and work through his difficulties, then I will be more than glad to help him. If he chooses to leave, then I will understand and try to convince him to make it a vacation, rather than a total break-up. Either way, the next step is up to him.

    That's my opinion.
  3. Synesthesiac
    I used to get breifly angry when I got negative reputation. I would want to know who left it and I would try to dispute it somehow. But it only took me a week or so to realise that its far easier to take on board the advice thats been given, go back and edit the post in question to get rid of the reason for the negative reputation, or just ignore it. Now if I get negative reputation I just learn from it. I remember other members getting in a right old state about negative rep, some even got banned for the arguments that ensued.

    I think the rep system on this site is an extremely valuable tool that other drug related forums lack. Its impossible on most other forums to tell between someone whos posting garbage while high on methamphetamine and a doctor whos giving sound advice (well, maybe apart from lack of use of paragraphs, forever the main trait of stimulant fiends :laugh:)
  4. Mick Mouse
    Well, this seemed like a good heading for this particular thought that is currently bumbling about in my head. I was considering a completely new thread, but the title of this one is appropriate.

    Over the past few months, there has been quite a bit of controversy regarding the actions of a former member who was a co-moderator of one of the sub-forums here. This individual was demoted and eventually banned because of his actions, but there are still the after-effects which may take quite some time to fully resolve.

    I, like I'm sure many of us here, have been following this soap opera from the beginning, and I have to say, it ended just about how I thought it would. Many people have weighed in with their opinions on this matter, and I think that it has been analyzed to death. Part of the issue is that only certain parts of the story have been released, There are parts to this, on both sides, that are not available to those of us who have been following this drama. Which is fine with me, as much as I would have liked to know the whole story, it really is none of my business and is more in the way of morbid curiousity, like slowing down to look at a wreck on the highway.

    What I have been able to follow disturbs me greatly. First of all you have the threatened release of confidential information. That would not bother me personally, I am quite proud of my membership here, I wear my D-F shirt out in public all the time, and I have D-F bumper-stickers on my cars. I have nothing to hide and I don't care what people may think of me because of it. However, I am probably the exception, rather than the rule, and I can see how such a release of information could be quite harmful to those who are still "in the closet", so to speak.

    Then you have the whole BDSM thing. I'm OK with that, and I can even confess to some long-ago (OK, not all THAT long ago!) adventures involving leather, discipline, and a VERY stern mistress. Peoples sex lives should be their own, no matter how freaky they want to get. Between two consenting adults. Now, quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck if the age of consent is 16 in your country. I don't give a flying fuck if the girl was sexually active. I don't even give a flying fuck about your excuses of attraction, loneliness, desperation, or anything else.

    She was a child and you are a grown man YOU SICK FUCK! None of your excuses count, and you sicken and disgust me.

    Then, and maybe most importantly, there was the breach of trust. People depended on this individual, and he violated their trust. He abused and manipulated them, and in doing so, he attacked the family.

    Now, we all know how I get when I see someone who I perceive as attacking this forum. Ballistic is putting it mildly! I don't give a damn about neg rep, hurt feelings, or anything else-if you attack my friends and family here, it is ON! So when I got caught up on what had been happening while I was away, I pretty much went right through the roof! However, this situation is a little different than some yahoo whining and crying because he can't find out how to get high on toe-jam and dissing the forum.

    No, this required some thought. The first thing I did was I went back and re-read the whole "screaming/dreaming" threads. Then I researched chat archives, other posts, and some of the other participants involved in this fiasco.

    The conclusion that I have reached is this: Dickon was a good dedicated person in the field of recovery and he has helped many, many people here in the 3 or so years that he was with us. I honestly think that we can all agree on that. However, for whatever reason, he decided to follow another path. That's his choice to make. Now, we find ourselves in a situation in which his choices directly affect the operation of our home here. Regardless of his past positive accomplishments, this cannot be allowed to happen and he must be stopped. In addition, his recent actions and words have caused, and will continue to cause, hurt and pain to many who looked up to him.

    For all his positive accomplishments, for all of his "good deeds", his actions and words have crossed the line. I respected and admired Dickon, but no more. His seeming empathy, his intelligence, his knowledge, all means nothing to me now.

    In this matter, I find that I agree 100% with the assessment given by MrG. This guy is a sick, baby-fucking serial manipulator.

    This is, of course, just my opinion, and you can agree or not, as you see fit.
  5. Mick Mouse
    Having continued to consider this a bit more, I realize that there are some things which I had not fully considered, but which I believe bears mentioning, perhaps to some extent more than it already has been. One of those is the fact that, while it is easy to be angry at this person, one would do well to remember that he is not the only one to blame here. In fact, one could go so far a to say that everyone was to blame, just as everyone was a victim, although this person was, in my opinion, far more at fault than perhaps some of the others who were involved.

    As far as those others go, I would only address this to those who are members here-a terrible thing has happened. Lets all pull together as much as is possible and work towards a resolution that is acceptable to all. Or at least does the minimum amount of damage. If that is even possible.

    It saddens me that such a thing would happen here, but then again, this is a very large community, so it stands to reason that we would represent a cross-section of society at large, albeit shaded, perhaps towards a more libertarian viewpoint, but still, it shouldn't be unusual that we have at least a few bad apples in the orchard. You just never think about it until you come face to face with a worm.
  6. Alfa
    Surely there is one person to blame here. Consider this case:
    Addiction Guru prosecuted for sex with clients & abuse of position
    Its closely resembles what has been going on with this member. Very closely. Including the position of trust, abuse of power, sex with a minor. Mind that we are not talking about a girl who looks like 18, but a girl who looks really young. (who was also the child of the woman he is obsessed with) The main thing thats different is that the UK the age of consent is 16, without reverence to age differences. In various countries this is pedophilia plain and simple. If a person would pull this crap in The Netherlands or The USA for example, it would result in a long prison sentence.

    In this case I do not believe your blog title is applicable. What seemed like a friend, a good person, has unfortunately turned out to be the opposite. In my opinion a manipulative sadistic sexual predator with a verbally strong empathic layer on top.


    Statement on the sacking and banning of Dickon Lush
    Postings by Dickon Lush: Dickon Lush
  7. Mick Mouse
    Well, I never said that he was a friend, nor did I say that he was a good person, although upon further review, I see that I could have been more clear in my choice of words and meaning. What I said was that he was a good dedicated person in the field of recovery and that he helped many people. I meant "good" as an adjective to dedicated, not to "person". He helped many people, thus "good". He did so for an extended period of time, thus "dedicated".

    I still stand by that statement.

    Is he a sadistic, manipulating, baby-raping piece of shit? Absolutely!

    Am I defending him? Absolutely NOT!

    Did he help others here, in a dedicated manner? yes. yes he did.

    His so-called "good deeds", even if multiplied by a hundred, a thousand, even ten thousand, cannot wipe away the damage and hurt that he has caused, nor can it ever rebuild the trust that he violated. I never meant to insinuate that it could be otherwise. All I said was that he helped people. That can also be said of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, hell, that can even be said of Satan himself, if one believes in such a thing!

    No, I meant "good person" in the sense that he helped others. Nothing more and nothing less. Perhaps I should have renamed the thread "Losing good people....and those who used to be good but turned into total pieces of shit"?

    Hopefully this clarifies matters somewhat.

    Oh, and I also agree with the fact that this is nothing more and nothing less than pedophilia, and while he would be given a long prison sentence in the USA, he would never live to see it completed. Or even fairly started, for that matter! I also strongly agree with your opinion of this individual.
  8. Relapse_Rollercoaster
    If I may....I have not been here long and I would like to share with you some things I have perceived and/or felt when just starting up....

    ~ at first I felt almost personally insulted by lack of comments or views on my threads and blog page, but then I realized that some of it is almost an initiation of sorts. If you cannot take a little constructive critisism and learn from it then your threads will never get better. There are some who just like to hear themselves speak, but in my case it was ignorance...the rules were read, not absorbed. I am a person who learns by doing and usually by mistakes made. When people come here they are usually distressed, crying out, and in the throws of addiction. They are definately not using TFSE. At least that was my case. Cooler heads have prevailed though and within a month I had a decent understanding and was careful to have something to say in my threads, or if I was unsure I didn't speak until I was. Not that my DF rep is going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things, but as respect to the site. I chose to be a part of this therefore I will respect the elders..;) and their way of doing things to the best of my ability.

    ~ the only other thing I must say is some of it seems very cliquey....for lack of a better term, and I sometimes felt intimidated by the chat, almost afraid to chime in...but again "in the throws", and very self concious. Perhaps I'm not the only one?

    ~ last but not least, thanks to all the folks who make this site tick, and put in work, and all so precious time :). It made a difference in my life....
  9. Mick Mouse
    Well, I don't know if I would go quite so far as to say it is an initiation, but it can be discouraging at times. I know I have lost count of the times that I have put work into a post only to have it seemingly ignored, but I finally realized that while have huge rep points and all of those little green boxes by my name is quite cool, it is not why I am here.

    I came to this site back in 2006, like many others, looking for a better way to manufacture meth. I was a regular at another site, but heard about this one, so I thought I would check it out. I found all the info I could ever dream of and then some, I actually abandoned the Hive and came here full time! Along the way, both this place and myself grew into something that would have never been expected. I have seen "cliques" come and go, and they never last. Why? Because we are to diverse. We have too many members who have too many interests, and we all mingle. Friendships form, and some of them are very deep, but I don't know about cliques. I came here to polish my skills in cooking dope, but I stayed because, well....this is family. These are the people who saved me, these are the people who take me for what I am, and never ask for more than I am willing to give. These are the people who give my life some sort of meaning. Family!

    The rules are many, and can be somewhat complex, but at the same time, they are fairly easy to stay within. The vast majority of newbie mistakes come not from not reading the rules, but from not understanding them fully. For as long as I have been here, I still have no idea of every single rule! The best way to go about things is to treat others as you would be treated. Be polite and civil, contest ideas, not people. Remember that a great many of us owe our lives to the people and info that we have found here, and this is looked at as a home.

    You should NEVER feel intimidated! Jump right on in and be a part of our community. We have had issues regarding this matter of the chat before, and there are a couple of threads concerning it. Just remember that politeness is just as important here as it is in RL situations. Other than that, jump right in and the devil take the hindmost!

    It takes time to get used to the ebb and flow of how the site works, but you are an important part of our mission here, just like every other member. Stick with us, add your knowledge, take away what you need, and we will all grow stronger.
  10. Mick Mouse
    Well, since my last post here, I have received not one, but TWO rather long and drawn out posts from Dickon. Yes, even though he has been banned, he continues to flout the rules and opens new accounts, trying to worm his way into the good graces of somebody, anybody who will listen. First, he came on board as "Thomas de Quincy" and acted like a total newbie in order to engage members in conversation. He actually had some of us believing that he was a person who needed help! Well, he needs help all right. Lots of help!

    Then, as I have mentioned, I get a PM from "goat_boy", who immediately identifies himself as Dickon and launches into this long drawn-out diatribe on how he is so misunderstood, confused, and hurt that Alfa and the rest of the forum would stoop so low as to do this to him. How HE didn't do anything wrong, but his actions were just misinterpreted by members who didn't have the full stories. He lays out, in very convincing fashion, a total and complete justification for his every act, as well as quite adroitly shifting the blame to others. When he encounters a situation in which that s not possible, he tries to muddy the waters in an attempt to get lost in the confusion.

    He says that he is "hurt" by my words and wants me to remove the entire thing from my blog, and he also says that he doesn't understand how I can characterize him as a "serial manipulator", nor did he like the fact that I called him a sick baby-raping piece of shit. He goes on in detail about how the young lady in question was sexually active and had an older male lover, and so on, ad infinitium.

    I hurt his feelings! Excuse me while I dry my eyes.

    As always, I am willing to stand by my opinion and defend it when necessary. So here goes. Serial manipulator-the entire content of the two PMs that you sent to me fairly screams out as manipulative. You actions and words throughout this entire event stand against you. And finally-and most importantly-I recognize you, you fucking bastard!

    You are what I used to be. A manipulative, scheming, worthless bastard. While I may still lay claim to the last adjective, I have eliminated the first two from my life. But I still know one when I see and hear one. That will never change. No, Dickon's own words and actions have condemned him. I merely stated my opinion on the issue.

    Then we have the many paragraphs on the countless justifications he has dreamed up, in order to excuse his behavior. This one is actually pretty easy-you don't like being called a "sick, baby-raping piece of shit"? DON'T FUCK LITTLE GIRLS! As I mentioned earlier, I don't care is she was "legally" of age by several months. I don't care that she was having sex with some other older guy-which I did not know about until he spread it about-and I don't care about the sick and twisted childhood you had or how you were "overcome" with attraction.

    Grown men-adult, responsible men-do not engage in sex with young girls of 17. What part of that do you NOT understand? You are, what? 30+ years older than her? That would be like fucking your grandma! On the other hand, you came to the conclusion that the normal rules did not apply to you, which is not only quite frequently done, but is almost the norm for serial manipulators. So you broke the rules, tried to justify the behavior, and then laid the blame on every one in sight. Serial what?

    No, I stand by my statements. If nothing else, the way that you continue to thumb your nose at the forum rules regarding multiple accounts and many others goes to show that you stand convicted by your own words and actions. And yet you get all butt-hurt when someone like me offers an opinion. You regale us with tales of woe about how your wife reads all of these posts about what you are and how it hurts her so, how it will damage the relationship between you and your son.

    This is the wife that you lied to and cheated on, and the son who you said (and this is a paraphrase) would "make a good little sadist" or some such crap?

    So, let me run this down to see if I have it all: Sick? Check. Manipulative? Check. Baby-raper? Subject to definition, but according to me-check. Piece of shit? I think lying and cheating on your wife covers that. Check. Violating the rules of the forum, society, civilization, and, in general, good taste? Check, check, check, and check. I think that about covers it all.

    While the temptation to reply to these PMs from Dickon was almost overwhelming, I did not give in. That is exactly what he wants, which is to engage in conversation in the hopes of winning you over to his side. And if that is not possible, his aim is then to create doubt and confusion, perhaps in the vain hope than he can salvage something from the wreckage. No, I will pass on the opportunity to excoriate him in person for several reasons. First of all, I REALLY do find him contemptible. I'm better than him and I refuse to lower myself to his level and argue the "merits" of his actions and words. Secondly, I absolutely despise the type of men who act in any number of the ways that he has acted in-manipulating, lying and cheating on your spouse, breach of trust, etc. Especially the second one. And lets not even get started on the whole child sex thing. I am quite unreasonable about that. And finally, I won't hide anything, like he wants me too. I do not believe in censorship. Never! if you don't like people reading about what you did, DON'T DO IT!

    Pretty easy to understand. At least, I thought so. I don't know why a supposedly smart guy like Dickon can't seem to figure it out. You screwed the pooch on this one, and there is no going back and fixing it. Maybe you should just....go away. You are not liked or respected or trusted or wanted here anymore. just go away and eventually people will stop talking about you and you will be a forgotten side-note of D-F history, right up there with midget porn and the bloodninja. Only to be brought up when a laugh is wanted. That is what you are now, you understand.

    A laughingstock.

    All of the above, as well as any and all of my comments here, are strictly my own personal opinion and are not necessarily the opinions of other members, staff, administration, or the SIN foundation and any part thereof.
  11. knightsmith
    wow. yeah it took me some time to settle. I took it hard, whined like a baby at the start, took time out. I need to make changes though for myself, as im not in a happy state. I think my thick skin took away skin from my psychy as I really felt the neg rep as bad.

    It takes getting used to, a few people showed me the ropes, advised me, and I understand now. I may not agree with some, but I can agree to disagree and live with it.

    I cannot say anything productive on the rest of the whole story, even if there is consent it can still mess a person up, if theres no consent , its something that affects a person for their whole life if not a century or more just to come to terms with. Then they still lose because they find it hard to trust, and love. Is it worth ruining a womans life? I hope I never know such horror that a woman would. My viewpoints from someone who supports "anonymous person " after suffering such horror.
  12. TheBigBadWolf
    the predating times are over in any respect..

    read more
  13. Mick Mouse
    Interesting! I am not sure of the wording over there across the pond, but were I to see that obituary here, my first thought would be "died of an overdose". And the platitudes were disgusting! However, it seems as if he was well-thought of by someone, and one would hope that he made amends with his family, so my respects and sympathies go out to them.
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