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Man injures overdosed friend (And you would not believe how...)

  1. Phungushead
    LAWRENCEVILLE — Gwinnett police have charged a Norcross man with reckless conduct for injuring his overdosed friend in a bizarre attempt to revive him, police said.

    James Mann, 20, is accused of forcing ice cubes into the rectum of a 20-year-old friend who had overdosed on the prescription drug OxyContin at a Saturday night party near Norcross, authorities said.

    Emergency responders, who found the alleged victim unconscious at a Walden Trace home, told police the ice cubes caused serious bleeding. He was transported to Gwinnett Medical Center in Duluth for treatment.

    Witnesses told police that, when attempts to wake the man had proved futile, Mann fetched the ice cubes. Mann told an officer he’d heard the method would help, according to a police report.

    Heavy-eyed Mann told a responding office he’d taken 160 milligrams of OxyContin — twice the recommended dosage for most opioid-tolerant patients — and the victim took 120 milligrams, in addition to drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana, the report says.

    The officer determined Mann “displayed a gross deviation of standard care” and advised him to show up at a police precinct Sunday because he was being charged. Mann showed and was arrested without incident, the report says.

    He was released from the Gwinnett County Jail on the misdemeanor charge Monday.

    Posted: 7:28 PM Nov 16, 2010

    Josh Green


  1. zero pulse
    Why in the world would shoving ice cubes up somebody's rectum help in any way. xD What a great friend though, I mean if you put aside that he caused internal bleeding, the man was willing to push ice cubes up his friends behind to help him. I would be curios to know what the recipient though about this after a few days had gone by.
  2. mickey_bee
    Fuckin hell. To cause serious bleeding aswell, he must have been going hell for leather on the poor guy.
    This is weirdly fucked i tell ya. Swim's heard alot of bullshit about ways to get someone out of an OD, but has never heard this lol.
    Agreed, christ knows how they'll look each other in the eye after that....and all the shocked bystanders at the party.........hahahaaaaa!
  3. Moving Pictures
    Okay, afoaf was overdosing and it was decided to take his jeans off and put ice-cubes in his boxers. It did not work! It will not work if someone is unconscious! An ambulence had to be called and he had to be given narcan. The doctor said he would have been dead in a few hours had an ambulence not be called.

    Once someone is unconscious, three things can happen: the person can either come out of it after a while on their own (not that likely), they can die, or they can be given narcan and brought to. Other than that, nothing will revive an unconious opiate overdosing person.

    Putting ice-cubes in someone's ass is just nonsense. It won't revive anyone and like has been said, this guy was none-too gentle about it either. I have to imagine once all is said and done, he'll have a good ass kicking coming his way from the friend. Not to mention being the laughing stock of the jail once he gets locked up.

    Shovin ice cubes up someone's ass... Jesus Christ
  4. kailey_elise
    Yes, that's an "Old Junkie's Tale" (like an Old Wives' Tale), that when someone's in an OD, you should stick ice cubes down their pants or in their armpits, or throw them in a cold shower. THESE ARE NOT TRUE, AND CAN IN FACT MAKE THE SITUATION EVEN WORSE BY SENDING THE OVERDOSING PERSON INTO SHOCK!!!!

    Yes, this is true. The best thing to do is to call the ambulance (and you CAN call an ambulance service directly, avoiding 911 & the police potentially showing up - have the number to a local ambulance company in your cell phone BEFORE you might need it!), when you talk to the person on the phone when you call 911, tell them someone is blue & not breathing or say "Someone here is in respiratory arrest"; this will send the EMTs quickly, but hopefully not send the police. Of course, once the EMTs get there, tell them what the person has taken (if you know).

    While waiting for the ambulance to arrive, you can do Rescue Breathing! Tilt the person's chin towards the ceiling, pinch their nose closed gently, form a seal around their open mouth with your own open mouth and breathe into their mouth (2 small breaths) - not super hard, but enough to see their chest rise. You can keep someone alive for something like 4 hours this way, IIRC! You want to repeat this, 1 breath for them every 5 seconds. This can keep them alive until the ambulance arrives & can Narcan them.

  5. Balzafire
    Anyone who is reading this who is or may ever be around others who abuse opiates - please - right now, while you are at a computer, look it up and add the number to your local ambulance service to your cell phone.
    Following Kailey's suggestion, I just did and hope you will too. It might just come in handy some day.
  6. mickey_bee
    Do the police always turn up with the ambulance to OD's in the US?

    In the UK the police only very occasionally come with the ambulance - if there's a perceived threat to the safety of the ambulance crew, or if the address is known for violence etc.
    Swim's been at 2 ambulance call OD's, and neither time the police came, until after the ambulance had arrived and declared one of the guys dead... But swim could have told them that.........
  7. kailey_elise
    Yup. If one says "drug overdose" on the phone with 911, the police are a'comin'! And yes, they *WILL* charge you with, oh, possession of precursors (bleach on top of your washing machine, Sudafed in your medicine cabinet), possession of drugs, manslaughter if the ODing person dies, here's a good one: say you happen to be at the scene of an OD, and don't have an drugs on you, maybe you don't even do drugs - in Massachusetts at least, there's a charge called "Knowingly in the presence where drugs are being used/sold". How do you like THAT one?! You could just be a Good Samaritan from down the hall and STILL get in trouble!

    Oh, and if you have subsidized housing, or children in the house? Or say children live in the house, but aren't there at the time? You'll lose your housing voucher, and social services get involved with your kids, potentially taking them away.

    The other, horrible horrible option, but at least in the USA, sometimes has to be done; if someone ODs in your home, and you have a housing voucher/children (especially if social services are already involved in your family - in which case, what are you inviting people back to your house to get high for ANYWAY?!?),WHATEVER. Drag them into the hallway, CLOSE & LOCK YOUR APARTMENT DOOR, call the ambulance or 911, tell them you found someone in your hallway in respiratory arrest. Clean out their pockets of any drugs & paraphernalia if you can (so they don't get arrested for possession once they come to, in case the cops show up anyway) & toss it/hide it. If you know them well & know they have warrants & tend to use false names, you might want to take their ID if you'll be able to give it back to them later. Perform Rescue Breathing as above.

    In the even worse situation that YOU have warrants, do the same as above, but place them into the Recovery Position (on their left side, bend their right knee and cross it over the left leg to steady the person so they don't roll over onto their face, left arm under their head for support & to tilt the face downwards in case they puke), place a note on them stating what drugs they took (heroin, opiates, benzos, alcohol, any combination thereof, etc) & get the hell out of Dodge. Be warned, some areas are more strict about those Manslaughter charges - if there's a chance that someone saw you leave the scene that can identify you, you might be better off staying to perform Rescue Breathing & getting picked up on that warrant. MOST of the time, if one's making a serious effort to help, they'll be covered by "Good Samaritan" laws. Only you can weigh that decision, though.

    There has been work trying to be done to make it so that if someone calls in an OD, they won't get charged with a crime themselves for "doing the right thing". So far, the police are against it (what a surprise) and these acts haven't passed. Because as it stands now in many areas (and I know in my own area), it's often in someone's best interest to run than to call for help & actually stay with the person, which is sad as hell. This is one of the many reasons for the push for the Narcan pilot programs (giving out nasal Narcan to injection drug users) and for the program's expansion - no one deserves to die because they do drugs, and no one deserves to go to jail for helping someone by calling 911 & staying with them!! At least in our area, the use of addict-administered Narcan has significantly reduced fatal overdoses, and even though you're still supposed to call 911 after administering it, almost no one does (though I've heard most people DO stay with the OD'd person to keep an eye on them & make sure they don't go back out when the Narcan wears off, and most of the time they don't).

    It's sad that it's gotten to this, but there you are. :( I'll see if I can find any of the articles about people being charged (and convicted!) with Manslaughter in cases such as these in the USA. I'll also see if I can find some overdose statistics since Narcan was introduced in my state, since I'm curious about the numbers myself.

  8. catseye
    Washington to Become Second State with Overdose Protection Law

    March 10, 2010

    Law Encourages People Who Witness Overdose to Call 911 without Fear of Prosecution

    California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, New York and Rhode Island Are Looking at Similar Life-Saving Legislation.

    On Wednesday, Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire is expected to sign a bill that will protect people calling 911 when witnessing a drug overdose. Washington will join New Mexico as the second state in the country with this life-saving legislation.

    Accidental drug overdoses cause the death of more than 26,000 Americans every year. According to the Centers for Disease Control, drug overdose now ranks as a leading cause of preventable death in the U.S., second only to motor-vehicle accidents.

    “This law will save lives,” said Meghan Ralston of the Drug Policy Alliance. “The majority of people who overdose are in the company of others, but don’t get help because people are afraid to call 911 out of fear of arrest.”

    This new Washington legislation will provide limited immunity from prosecution for simple drug possession for people who call 911 to report an overdose, as well as for the victim of overdose. The new law also focuses attention on naloxone, the overdose reversal drug, by allowing people to possess and administer it to people overdosing on opioid drugs, such as Vicodin.

    "I'm so pleased we were able to steer this important bill to enactment,” said Roger Goodman, State Representative for Washington’s 45th District. “Washington State holds the unfortunate distinction as the nation's leader in overdose deaths, so it's an urgent matter for us to reduce the harm. From the beginning we had support from the state Medical Association and from many parents who have tragically lost children to overdoses, and in the end we were able to ease the concerns of law enforcement and garner their support."

    Numerous states have introduced or are looking into overdose protection laws including: California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, New York and Rhode Island. On the federal level, Congresswoman Donna Edwards (D-MD) has introduced the Drug Overdose Reduction Act, which would establish an innovative grants program for organizations across the country working to prevent drug overdose.

    “There is an overdose crisis in this country and it is encouraging that states are starting to address this situation,” said Ralston. “It should never be a crime to call 911 and to try to save someone’s life.”

    For more information about solutions to the overdose crisis in the United States, see the Drug Policy Alliance’s major report Preventing Overdose, Saving Lives.


  9. mickey_bee
    That is so f**ked.

    Swim knows the US isn't anything like as pro-harm reduction as the UK, but never thought it would be this bad....
    This is one of those laws which isn't 'harm-reduction' at all, it's just common sense. If you want to save as many lives as possible, this is what you do..........swim's shocked.
    Honestly, he's been shocked by the US's idiocy when it comes to drugs before, but this takes the biscuit. Let's hope that law gets changed soon. 'The good samaritan law' lol, swim thought the US was a christian nation - would Jesus get arrested for trying to help someone who'd overdosed?
  10. C.D.rose
    Would it be a good idea to compile a list of phone numbers that one can call in order to get an ambulance (and nothing else)?

    Not in this thread, but as a sticky or something. That way people can just check the list and copy the number into their phonebook. I mean, anyone who's too lazy to look it up for himself probably has a lower sense of responsibility than, I don't know, my washing machine (to be fair though, it'sa really great washing machine!), but if it saves lives...
  11. catseye
    It's f**cked, it sucks, and catty cries when she reads about shite like this because it's so unnecessary and downright cruel. She's proud to be American by birth but has never felt so ashamed of her country when it comes to harm reduction. Things have changed in the years since she lived there, as evidenced by the first story and the fact that an ambulance WAS called - as 'funny' as the OP story may be, there is little doubt that the caller and the victim were both charged with drugs offenses, aside from the deviation of care charge.
    But things haven't changed all that much, really.
    Good Samaritan Law, my ass. Calling an ambulance for a sick or injured person in any other situation would be expected - not to do so would be inexcusable.
    Good Samaritans were the people practically chucking clean works from the back of a pick up truck in an alley, risking arrest; or the pharmacists and nurses that would put their license to practice in jeopardy to make needles available, etc. long before 'needle exchanges' were allowed. But anyway...rant over :(
  12. catseye
    Catty would really like to do that if everyone thinks its a good idea?

    ETA: Just volunteering that is, if CD Rose is too busy or anything...not trying to step on any toes!!
  13. C.D.rose
    No, please, go ahead! :thumbsup:
    It would be important to stress that this is not to be an "emergency number" phone list (that deals with calls for an ambulance and police alike), but - at least where available - a "make-that-a-team-of-paramedics-comes" phone list.. In Germany, the appropriate number would be 19222, for example.
  14. kailey_elise
    Do you mean, compile a list of ambulance services all over the United States & beyond? I mean, each city & town around here has a different number to call, and multiple ones at that! I just don't know how feasible it might be.

    Right near the Syringe Access Program I used to volunteer at was, coincidentally enough, an ambulance company. I just went in one day, asked if it was possible to call them directly and got their number. I have since done so in whichever city I happen to spend considerable time in.
    Ah, I see what you mean. I don't think there's anything like that around here. I don't know about other parts of the USA, but in my area, like I said, I just looked up the number of a private company.

    You know, it might be worth looking into to make sure there's nothing wrong in one's area with just calling an ambulance company directly. I don't see why not - I don't think there's anything illegal about just driving someone to the hospital yourself. Maybe I can stop at City Hall & ask...

    I just think it fucking SUCKS that the places that could probably get the most use out of it (the United States!) doesn't have a service where you can JUST call an ambulance - you call 911 or dial 0 for the operator & tell them the nature of your emergency & they decide who to send out. *sigh*

  15. catseye
    ^^ hmm, see what you mean :s I just did a quick *oogle and found several private companies that have branches in most major cities, etc - but they all clearly state that emergency calls should be made via 911. They also charge high rates from the sound of it - 'we take all major credit cards, payment in advance, medicare/medicaid possible...blah blah blah. My guess is they aren't going to hurry out to a call where drugs are involved due to potential legal implications and also because they will want an awful lot of details re who exactly is going to pay!!
  16. C.D.rose
    Yeah, I remember that number in Germany from back when I lived there.. it's not a "private" number in that sense, but a direct one if you will, so that one speaks to the guy who dispatches the ambulance right away. I didn't know - or think - that things were so complicated in the US, but if that's not workable for over there, we could still compile a list of European phone numbers, I think?..

    edit: Seriously, what's wrong with all the private shit, to take care of medical emergencies? And they tell you in advance how to pay them? Doesn't sound too trustworthy to me. Probably you have to enter your credit card number before even being transferred to someone who would dispatch an ambulance. That sounds very weird to me, to be honest..
  17. kailey_elise
    Just 2 cases of people being charged with Manslaughter for not calling the cops when someone OD'd, one from the USA, one from Wales (not England - I saw "Court of Appeal in London" & assumed since I don't know the area as well as I'd like - bad Kailey! *blush*). There are many more, and then there are cases of the people who gave the person the Heroin (be it dealer or friend), who didn't administer it, just supplied the Heroin, who've also been hit with Manslaughter charges! So also be careful "playing middleman" for someone in order to get a bag for yourself or something! Perhaps some of this should be split off into it's own thread; I'm just not sure what it should be called. Ideas?

  18. catseye
    The case from Wales is interesting in that it would be the exception, not the rule here. The charges were made due to the gross negligence involved, drugs or no drugs if you KWIM? Watching tv whilst somebody lies upstairs dying is pretty f'ing nasty.
    If the paramedics respond and there has been a death of any sort, then the police will surely come - but as far as the manslaughter charges being applied, it was due to the callous behaviour of the individuals and their failure to adhere to duty of care, not the drug involvement...I'll see what I can find out because I'm curious now.

    Anyway, this is a quote from the Drug overdose: Prevention and response
    Guidance for helplines as published by the National Treatment Agency

    And yes, I think this should be split off into another thread too - it's going way OT, but is important I think...I don't know what to call it either, and I guess we need a mod to do that?
  19. Moving Pictures
    I have a question, say you and a buddy are getting high and he does a big one and falls out. You gather up all the good stuff and hide it somewhere and call 911 saying your buddy was over and he just fell out and ain't breathing too well and you don't know what's going on. When the paramedics get their, are you putting his life at more risk by not saying he's ODing on opiates or is that something a paramedic can spot right away? I mean, if you say your buddy just showed up then fell out a few minutes later, no way could you be convicted of anything (not charged, convicted). But if you say "we were shootin dope and he over did it", you could get convicted of something. What I wonder is though, are you putting the person at risk by not saying they are having an overdose? Is it possible the medics even doctors won't spot it (not IV users at least cus of tracks) and think it is something else and the person die?

    What I'm asking is, can all the medics spot ODs from a mile away or is holding back on what actually happened going to make it hard for them to figure out what happend?

    Nobody wants to go to jail but having your bud die cus you didn't tell the truth, well fuck, it'd be hard to live with yourself.
  20. Balzafire
    It seems to me that it should be fairly easy for a medic or the hospital he's communicating with to figure out what's going on with the patient due to the vital signs (shallow breathing, pinpoint pupils, etc.), but (and I know this is not what you asked) anyone with direct knowledge of what is happening would absolutely have a legal (and moral) responsibility to tell the medic that it was an opiate overdose. The friend can't be expected to incriminate themselves, but they would absolutely be expected to give any information that could quicken the treatment.
    I will try to remember to ask my ex wife tomorrow if it would be obvious to the medic. She's a registered nurse and really knows her shit.
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