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Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Police

Rating:
5/5,
  1. Beenthere2Hippie
    Troy Goode had taken LSD at a concert he and his wife attended in Southaven, Mississippi, but must have been having a bad trip and began acting erratically, running around the parking lot. Though the Memphis, Tennessee, man’s behavior wasn’t violent or threatening to anyone, someone felt it necessary — likely out of misguided concern — to summon the police. That fateful decision by a stranger cost Goode his life.

    Inept police arrived on scene and, as bystander video footage revealed, forcefully hogtied Goode, placing him face-down — a position known to be potentially deadly — and loaded him onto a stretcher and into a waiting ambulance.

    “They hogtied him. That’s such a bad idea,” one witness can be overheard saying in that footage. “He’s currently face-down, on the stretcher,” says another. Shortly after that, a third bystander — who could not have imagined how truly portentous her statement would be — advised her companion, “Video it, just in case he dies.”

    Tragically, an hour after arriving at the hospital, that’s exactly what happened.

    Southaven Police maintain the absurd and unscientific claim Goode’s death was caused by his consumption of LSD. A Mississippi medical examiner’s report lists “complications of LSD toxicity” as the cause of death and “accidental” as the manner, according to MS News Now.

    Police have also claimed Goode was combative, threatening officers and resisting arrest, and his violent behavior continued inside the ambulance. Southaven Mayor Darren Musselwhite even issued a statement in support of this claim, going as far as saying Goode never said he couldn’t breathe — despite the bêtise of such a claim. Goode’s physical and mental distress was clearly evidenced in the video and backed up by audio of bystanders’ narration of the incident.

    As the Free Thought Project previously reported, his friends, family, and an independent autopsy tell a different story, saying Goode — who suffered from asthma — was denied his inhaler, and it was police’ excessive force and use of a dangerous restraint that killed him.

    “He was suffocating. His heart[rate] increased into what is called tachycardia. There is no scientific basis to attribute his death to LSD,” said attorney Tim Edwards in November. “This was lethal force, putting someone in a prolonged hogtied position … The toxicology report … rules out any drug-related causes. That takes that off the table. LSD does not cause heart failure.”

    On Wednesday, as they promised in November, Goode’s family filed a federal lawsuit against Southaven Police, the City of Southaven, several individual police officers and medical workers, the hospital where he was treated, and others — citing the violation of his civil rights.

    According to the lawsuit, Goode’s treatment by police was nothing short of torture. In regards to the police and their use of the K-9, the lawsuit exposes downright sadistic and inhumane behavior by the officers:
    • Troy approached the K-9 unit patrol car and opened the door in an attempt to voluntarily submit to police authority and enter the patrol car to be taken into custody.

    • When Troy opened the door to the patrol car the police dog, a Belgian Malinois named “Weasel”, got out of the vehicle but was not aggressive.

    • Defendant Scallorn grabbed the police dog by the collar, restraining it and preventing it from attacking Troy.

    • Troy, who was an animal lover, began to talk in friendly terms to the dog. At that point and time, one or more of the Defendants willfully, intentionally, wantonly, and with reckless disregard for Decedent’s well-being commanded the police dog to attack Troy.

    • Defendant Scallorn intentionally released the police dog to allow it to attack Troy.

    Southaven Police Chief Tom Long recently announced his retirement as of January 22nd, after 26 years in that post and 38 years in law enforcement. Long, 61, “is leaving a department where he started as the first officer hired by the city,” reported the Associated Press. Of course, the timing is purely coincidental.

    Though the family of Troy Goode is seeking a nominal $150,000 in damages, the true motivations for the lawsuit appear more altruistic. They have requested class-action status for the claim — an apparent effort to ensure no other family has to face such a tragedy from needless use of force by police.

    ~~~​

    To view the short film on the incident, go to the bottom of the page here.



    By Claire Bernish - Raw Story/Jan. 17, 2016
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/law...and-left-him-hogtied-face-down-until-he-died/
    Newshawk Crew

    About Author

    Beenthere2Hippie
    BT2H is a retired news editor and writer from the NYC area who, for health reasons, retired to a southern US state early, and where BT2H continues to write and to post drug-related news to DF.

Comments

  1. RoboCodeine7610
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    First of all, nobody knows what is in a hit of "LSD" anymore. The research chemicals that have flooded the market have been extensively used as a replacement for many drugs, but especially LSD, given it's scarcity and complicated synthesis. So there's no reason to believe that he was on LSD, and if he was, weather that was the only drug he ingested; knowingly or unknowingly.

    Second of all, he died an hour after arriving at the hospital, where I strongly doubt he was put face down in a gurney. If asphyxiation had been the cause of death, he would have died before arriving at the hospital.

    And lastly, he was under the care and supervision of the doctors and medical staff at the hospital a full hour before he died. How could the police possibly be to blame for his death?

    Nobody takes personal responsibility anymore...Taking a "hit" of something that you think is a powerful hallucinogen, presumably LSD, in a public place and then acting like a buffoon in the middle of the street and in front of police officers who are always on the lookout for danger is a recipe for disaster.

    Everyone's free to do that if they wish, but they shouldn't throw a tantrum and point fingers when something does happen. Freedom works both ways, you can engage in whatever risky behavior you want, but the responsibility of those actions are yours, and yours alone.

    Robo
  2. Beenthere2Hippie
    Family of Goode Sues Police Over Troy Goode's Untimely Death

    [IMGR=white]https://drugs-forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48072&stc=1&d=1453136515[/IMGR]The family of a Tennessee man who died in police custody has sued police officers, a doctor and others, alleging the man died because he was hog-tied by police for an extended period and could not breathe properly.

    The lawsuit seeking more than $150,000 damages was filed Wednesday in federal court in Tennessee by the wife and child of Troy Goode of Memphis. Goode, 30, died last July after his arrest in Southaven, Mississippi, when he was behaving erratically after taking LSD. He was there with his wife to attend a rock concert.

    The suit also names the city of Southaven, a hospital, an emergency medical worker and others. A Mississippi medical examiner found Goode died from "complications of LSD toxicity," and an autopsy classified the death accidental. Another autopsy released by Goode's lawyers, however, determined that the man had died from being hog-tied for an extended time. The suit said Goode and his wife, Kelli, went to Southaven on July 18 to attend a rock concert but before the show Goode took LSD. Then, the suit said, Goode began to "exhibit fear and paranoia" and his wife chose to drive them home to Memphis.

    En route, Goode made his wife stop their vehicle because he felt he could not stay inside the vehicle, according to the suit. He got out in a parking lot and then his actions led a woman to call police, thinking "she was witnessing a domestic disturbance," the suit said. The city, in a news release last November, said he was "running in and out of traffic, jumping on moving vehicles." When Southaven police arrived, Kelli Goode told police her husband was not violent but had taken LSD and was frightened, according to the suit.

    At that point, according to the suit, Troy Goode held up his hands and said, "Okay, I'll go," but then opened the door to a police cruiser and a patrol dog got out. Then, the suit alleged, a police officer allowed the dog to attack Goode, forcing him to the ground and biting him several times on his left arm.

    After being attacked by the dog, the suit alleged, Goode "attempted to get up" and a police officer then "drew his 'taser' gun from its holster and willfully, intentionally, wantonly, with reckless disregard for decedent's well-being, shot Troy in the back." The suit alleged officers then hog-tied him and left him hog-tied for an hour and a half, while he was taken to Baptist Memorial Hospital-Desoto to be treated for dog bites and while he was in the hospital's emergency department.

    Hog-tying involves shackling someone's hands and feet in a knot behind one's back. The suit contends this kind of shackling has been known to cause breathing problems.

    Throughout, the suit alleged, Goode repeatedly showed signs of having trouble breathing and struggled against his shackles, which should have alerted the police and medical professionals that he was having difficulty breathing. The city has denied that, saying he did not at any time claim he "could not breathe or appear short of breath." The suit also charged that Goode was strapped down with additional restraints in the ambulance.

    "Troy arrived at the Emergency Department still prone, strapped down and hogtied," the suit said. Even though his vital signs showed he needed oxygen, the hospital staff "did not supply Troy with a supplemental source of oxygen." He died in the hospital. City officials have defended the actions of the police officers. Southaven Mayor Darren Musselwhite, the suit said, has blamed Goode. The suit quoted the mayor as saying he "made some bad decisions that night that heavily influenced his death." The mayor had also described Goode's behavior as violent and, in the words of the mayor, that "mandated that he be restrained for the public safety of our other citizens, as well as himself," the suit said.

    "Hogtying is well-known to be deadly," the suit charged. "Troy's death is not a simple case of negligence. Instead, it reflects a systemic failure and willful violation of civil rights by the defendants." The suit — seeking to become a class-action case — also wants to force Southaven to stop hogtying individuals.

    Lawyers for the city of Southaven did not return a call seeking comment. Tim Edwards, the lawyer for the Goode family, also did not return a call for comment. A spokeswoman with the Baptist Memorial Hospital-DeSoto, which was named as a defendant, said the hospital does not comment on pending litigation.




    By Cain Burdeau - AP/Jan. 13, 2016
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e760...8b/family-sues-over-mans-death-police-custody
    Photo: WAPT
    Newshawk Crew
  3. Beenthere2Hippie
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Interesting points, Robo.

    But I have to disagree and stand up for Troy Goode, who, it seems from multiple reports given by credible media, was treated ineptly and violently by attending police and paramedics who exacerbated his health crisis during a time when he was in real and urgent need of medical intervention, as the Associated Press story on the family's pending lawsuit explains below.

    I will follow this story as it develops and we'll see what is decided about this case as it unfolds.
  4. rawbeer
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    You'd really need to know more about what happened at the hospital. Was he left hogtied? Was he receiving medical care or did they just shove him to the side? Did he actually die an hour after arriving or was he declared dead then?

    Did the coroner who declared it LSD toxicity actually find LSD? If so an RC overdose is a lot less likely. There's not enough evidence in this story to really say what happened. However when an unarmed person is brutalized by the police I tend to get suspicious. I don't see why an unarmed man incapacitated by drugs needs to be restrained like this.

    I have sympathy for the fact that cops have a dangerous job and fear for their lives. But sometimes they're just being bullies and pussies. A drugged out guy at a concert? And I hate to say it, but a white guy (a reflection on the well-known proclivities of law enforcement, not my own views)? If they would've just cuffed this guy and strapped him down they'd have a lot less to argue about in court, but they had to go all rodeo style on him.

    I think Robo's playing devil's advocate is an important contrast to the story, but this was certainly a bit excessive.
  5. Emilita
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Okay with great pain and complete and utter strength l write this, it hurts because lm a private person so please be gentle with me - l am fragile.

    I started having uncontrolled seizures, starting with my arm and progressing through to my entirely my body l then couldn't walk or talk. The reasons for them were purely emotional stress and my body was manifesting this physically because l had suffered from trauma (not wiling to discuss)

    I was sent to the hospital in a stretcher - strapped down and a tool in my mouth as not to bite my tongue. I was spoken about in front of me by the ambulance crew as if l was deaf and regarded as 'another meth head on a bender'

    I don't do meth, l don't take it, l don't want too and anyone that reads my posts knows my views on it - l am strongly against it.

    Once in hospital l was left in the hallway convulsing and having nurses and doctors looking at me going 'another meth head, really', 'l wish people wouldn't be so dumb and overdose on drugs it's a waste of our time', 'leave her here until she calms down, she'll be right'

    2 hours later, convulsions worse, lm still strapped in and a mouth guard to stop me biting my tongue. I was given drug tests after drug tests to see if l was on anything - I wasn't. Finally after the long wait a doctor came over and goes 'nah she's not a meth head we better deal with this one now' l was finally moved to emergency - l had no family/friends or anyone with me. I have never been so scared in my life and to this day l will never forget it or how l was treated.

    Finally l was given medicine used to treat people suffering Parkinson's disease even though l didn't have it, MRI, cat scan and then after all that another 2 hours l was I strapped and had a nurse come over and say 'lm sorry, we see this so much and normally think it's better to let them ride it out but we can see now it's not from drugs and it's something else. We are working on helping you'

    The kind words came after 4 hours - l wasn't given water, l urinated on myself and was ignored.

    Did l deserve this - fuck no
    Was l on drugs - no
    Was l under emotional stress - hell yes and l was ignored.

    The story goes on but it's no longer relevant. If you think of my experience and then the above poor man it makes me cry. As l write l have tears streaming down my face for the poor family, the poor child and wife and the poor man that suffered.

    Who cares if it was LSD or a chemical creation similar he was treated inhumanly and l 100% think it was undeserved.

    Place yourself in that situation and think should l make some comment on DF about devils advocate or should l see that human rights were breached, police acted inappropriately, hospital staff acted inappropriately and at the end of the day a young man died because of someone's poor judgments and it was completely undeserved.

    I watched the video, l re-read the article.

    There is nothing acceptable about what happened and l offer my deepest and heartfelt sympathies to the poor family.
  6. Beenthere2Hippie
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    When the Associated Press is covering a story in depth, it's as close to journalistic gospel as it gets. That's why I thought it important to cover and follow-up.

    This, if true, reflects the fact unmistakeabe fact that something like this could happen to most anyone in certain southern sections of US. It's a bad mentality, actually, that could be anywhere.

    Sad.

  7. DeepGreenSea
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Personal responsibility has nothing to do with this...

    A person has the right to expect living through an arrest.

    Protect and Serve. Who were these police protecting? Whom did they serve with this action?

    And Emilita's story rings true-if first responders/police bring in someone and say "Drugged up asshole" it's entirely possible that an ER would blow off a correct triage and ignore a man to death.

    Where is the personal professional responsibility for the police and the ER staff?

    Imbibing an illegal substance in public should not be a death sentence.
    Being arrested should not carry a death sentence...

    And ER staff are notoriously prejudiced against drug users-partly because of the diversionary tactics of addicts but also just due to the general attitudes of some (some) people drawn to the ER. It's still no excuse. I was still in school when I watched a nurse forgo morphine to a kidney stone patient FOR 7 HOURS because she was "sure" he was "faking." Except he wasn't-as evidenced by the huge bloody tissue covered stone he pushed out of his penis. No apology, no remorse.

    Sigh. He screamed and begged. I'll never forget it.

    Protect and Serve. Protect and Serve.
  8. Emilita
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Deepgreensea thank you for seeing the point l was making and l 100% agree with you 'protect and serve'

    I agree wholeheartedly with your post and it means a lot that someone can see from my perspective the hardship l suffered and l did nothing. This poor man won't ever be able to tell his story because his now dead, and that is horrible - no one will ever truely know what he went through and my heart goes out to the poor family.

    I'm sorry but all parties were negligent in this instance and each small amount of negligence adds up and so now a wife and child are left alone.

    There is so much prejudice in this world and to think someone died because of some police officer/ambulance driver/nurse/Doctor ect had an 'idea' that someone was acting a certain way because of a substance and they offered no help.

    It's really disappointing the direction our society is taking
  9. TheBigBadWolf
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    There have people died under unclear circumstances in my country, too.

    And I have heard (wasn't witnessing) a lot of shit about police brutality too.

    But this here goes far above what I can describe with my limited grip of this language. I mean I don't have enough swearwords.

    I'm. Glad that in my country police are organised on federal state level, not having redneck bullies sitting on their chairs for no reason than being friends with the bully redneck mayor they went to school with, all their lives through sucking each others dick and giving a horrible example of nepotism to the younger officers, the heirs of wild-west Sheriffdom.

    Its high time for the population to see they are not protected nor served by a police force that relies on practices like that.

    Drugged arsehole or not. All men are created equal and have some unalienable rights and (...) among these are life ....etc.

    All citizens are endangered by bullies like these. Using a deadly weapon ( yes, people die more from being tasered than being shot these days!) on someone already on the floor os unprofessional in the highest degree.

    And a report of me, experienced in1998, was I accidentally put myself into precipated withdrawal byinjecting buprenorphine while other opioids were on my system. I did only see ambulance staff who broight me to hospital where sadly no anaesthesiologist was available and I was asked whether I wanted food while waiting for the doc, provided with tea and as much blankets as I askes for.
    It was not their fault the specialist I needed was needed at a surgery.

    Overall I was treated likea human being.
    Staff was kind and warm hearted although I was a dirty (!!) junky who got himself into the situation willfully.

    Everything else is against the codex of soctors and nurses and they better go weld stuff or something but not work with (on) people.

    Sorry for this post being so long but I needed to.

    BBW
  10. RoboCodeine7610
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Okay, I think you're misunderstanding my point. I am not defending the police officers, at all. What they did, was, obviously, dangerous and ridiculously over the top. What I am questioning, however, is weather or not their actions led directly to his death. In my opinion, they did not, and I'll explain why point by point.

    If either of those scenarios did occur, then I would still argue that clearly, the hospital is still to blame. Weather what the cops did would've eventually killed the guy or not, it is a doctor's job and duty to prevent their patient's deaths. If he was hogtied face down in a gurney, then I don't see how that wasn't the hospital's responsibility.

    If someone dies at a hospital and nobody notices for a full hour, then obviously the attending physician and medical staff weren't doing their job at all. I find it hard to believe, however, that this was the case; or that he was left hogtied face down at all. If that had been so, then it would represent the lowest standard of care I would have ever heard of from any hospital in the developed world.

    Of course, here I completely agree. But the thing is; shit happens. Shitty people have always, and will always exist. That includes police officers. Still, taking potentially unknown hallucinogens in public and acting in that vein is a recipe for trouble, not just from police officers but from a number of things. Taking that/those drugs, in such an irresponsible way, was intrinsically dangerous. Weather that danger is another human being, falling off of a balcony or a lethal batch of drugs should be irrelevant. The fact still is that if he had been sober, or had used drugs responsibly (being certain of their purity, taking the right drug, in the right place, at the right dose etc..) he'd still be alive.

    I, for one, would not take "LSD" manufactured by criminals, sloppily soaked into blotter paper and potentially adulterated and/or fake. Should people have the right to buy these drugs from real labs that do real quality control and take them as they wish? Absolutely. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in, and while that's so, we must make rational choices according to what the world actually is and not what we would like it to be.

    A person has a right to expect living through a walk around town. That doesn't mean that a car can't come out of nowhere and run you over. Suppose the driver speeds away and is never caught. You can talk about justice all you want, but you still got run over.

    What you want, or expect, is irrelevant. Reality is reality, and it doesn't care about your thoughts. One of those realities, is that some cops suck. Ergo, it's a bad idea to take hallucinogens in the street if you can't possibly know how they'll affect you or how much you're taking. Once again, that's only one of the potential consequences of doing this; most of which have nothing to do with the cops.

    You're right, it shouldn't. But as you can see, sometimes it is. Therefore, it would be wise to incorporate that knowledge into your decision-making.

    Now THAT is something I agree with. Police officers have a very different job from that of doctors. This actually is a problem and any doctor who does this should be held responsible. When your job is to heal the sick and ease their suffering, then the patient's responsibility ends as soon as he steps into the hospital, and resumes once he's out. Also, doctors have no real danger to themselves and have no reason to cause unnecessary pain; or fail to prevent their patient's suffering.

    Still, once again, there are shitty doctors out there. Take that into consideration also. The difference here is that in a lot of cases, when people are hospitalized, they're incapable of making their own decisions.

    Ditto.

    Robo
  11. DeepGreenSea
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Robo-

    I'm sorry but I disagree with your point that Nurses and Police have Different Jobs. To me, it's damn near the same job. Help protect humans from themselves and each other by serving the needs of each situation based on a set of SOP that is drawn from years of experience and education, tempered with a natural empathy for the human condition that led them to the job to begin with.

    The tools may be a little different, they should be more alike if you ask me-less weapons, less restraints, more blankets, more tea.

    And who said anything about Doctors? Nurses run hospitals sir. I'm not saying that is a positive or a negative-it's just part of this Reality you are so fond of. A doctor didn't even lay eyes on the kidney stone patient-he looked at the chart, but not the patient. The nurse labeled him "drug seeker" and since she was the truly the one in charge, her bias ruled the situation.

    Police and Nurses are put on earth to help "dumb" people who don't always presuppose the actions of Reality correctly. That's our job. HELP PEOPLE. Even idjits who take drugs they can't handle in inappropriate public spaces. And given all the misinformation or lack of information about drugs in the world, where was this poor thing supposed to learn?

    Not everyone gets to DF in time Robo. That doesn't mean they should expect to die for their ignorance.

    And getting hit by a car is not remotely the same as Getting Hog Tied Face Down after a Police Dog chewed your face.
  12. RoboCodeine7610
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Except, as noted above, doctors protect their patients from disease and from themselves, not from other people. Police officers, however, are there to protect themselves and people from each other; which is why it's not as straight-forward as being a doctor. When you're a doctor, the patient comes in, you treat him. If he's agitated/violent, he's sedated or strapped down (in a humane manner, not hogtying them). Everything else is just medicine.

    Like in Oslo, you mean? Because that worked out so well?


    I agree, it makes no sense. Nurses aren't there to diagnose people and medical staff in general need to stop acting like giving an addict morphine 'just in case' he's not lying is the end of the world.

    Good point. But think about the fact that they weren't there to help him, but a collective. He was a potential danger to that collective and so had to be arrested. The way in which it was done was inhumane and moronic; but once again some people suck. Understand it, digest it, internalize it and them make decisions based on that. That's what I would do.

    As far as 'lack of information about drugs', that's ridiculous, and quite ironic given that we're having this discussion in a drugs forum. Still, even if most people aren't familiar with these sites, most are familiar with Wikipedia.

    Also, I'm willing to bet 'this poor thing' already knew that LSD caused hallucinations and erratic behavior, besides whatever else he may or may not have taken.

    Ignorance of what? The effects of a drug they're about to ingest? Well, call me an ass, but yes, I do think that if you take something and have no idea what it actually is or what it's even supposed to do then, the mentally disabled aside, I think you deserve whatever consequences come your way. Call it negative reinforcement if you like.

    Then again, what I think they deserve doesn't matter. It is simply what will most likely happen if you have no idea what you're doing.
    Different situation, same principle. The world is not a safe place, never has been. Acting in the same fashion increases your chances of both. It's not fair, but it is true.

    Robo
  13. Joe-(5-HTP)
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    I think we should be as angry about stories like this as we would be for stories where police kill(ed) black people and homosexuals because of racism and homophobia.

    This is neglect and discrimination against drug users, and it's just as bad.
  14. RoboCodeine7610
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Being black or gay is something you're born with. Taking drugs is a choice; especially when talking about drugs with a very low potential for addiction.
  15. Joe-(5-HTP)
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    If you believe in free will, sure, though I don't.

    We don't have to get into that though. I don't want to argue that there is a similarity between homosexuality and drug use, I want to argue there is a similarity between the systematic discrimination against minority groups which is based on dehumanizing them. Drug users share this kind of discrimination alongside all other minority groups. There is this similarity.
  16. RoboCodeine7610
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Very good point Joe. I should clarify, I have no problem getting into it and would, quite on the contrary enjoy hearing your points of view on the issue, as it's not often that one gets to have these conversations with anyone.

    When I say 'a choice', I don't mean that we have 'free will', whatever people mean by that. However, the concept of free will and individual responsibility for one's actions, although not ground on reality, is a necessary and fundamental part of how human societies work. Without it there'd be chaos.
  17. Nosferatus
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    It's unfortunate that Mr. Goode died, and hogtying is an unduly dangerous technique that is banned by effectively every law enforcement agency, but the biggest fault of the police in question was not immediately taking control of Mr. Goode so he could not take it upon himself to engage in actions that resulted in him accidentally releasing the police dog and precipitating everything else. This seems like several glaring examples of police incompetence, however, there does not appear to have been any intent to cause death, so comparisons to capital punishment are completely invalid.
  18. rollerz70
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Robo you say that police are there to protect themselves and people from others. But you know what they take the responsibilty of a dangerous job. They go through months of training just to get a badge. So what does that say to me? That if put in a situation such as this where there is way more cops than one KID on a drugs that they shouldnt see it as a free for all to do whatever they want to the KID. What if that was your son? Id love to see you still have the reality outlook you have. Its real easy to be that way when its someone else. But its truely disgusting that all the people that seen this KID and just left him to die. Because they all was there and all neglected him and he paid with his life. And for one second you dont think the cops wasnt still there at the hospital? They wouldnt just let the ambulance take him and leave it at that. Trust they was there. So they are just as much to blame. Yes cops do have a dangerous job but thats there choice. They just as doctors and nurses take a oath.
    It even said that the kid was not being aggressive when the cops was called but you know what id get real aggressive if for no reason the cops got their dog to attack me for no reason. Would you? Better yet put yourself in that position. Would you say that it would be okay for that treatment to happen to you because you had a lapse in judgement?
  19. RoboCodeine7610
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    That should clarify my position,

    Robo
  20. Nosferatus
    Re: Man Tripping on LSD Hogtied, Dog Sicced, Left Face Down to Die on Gurney by Polic

    Rollerz: As I said above, these cops demonstrated incompetence, they were too lenient in the beginning and then reacted to a falsely perceived threat, they may have contributed to his death through negligence, but not through malice, scrutiny and training work much better preventing deliberate undue harm rather than accidents.
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