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Overrated musicians with an undeserved mythical status in the drug world

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  1. podge
    Im shit sick of some of the least impressive (apparent) musicians getting a ridiculous mythic status among drug users for being nothing more than mediocre. It sends out such a bad message, it seems to make people believe that hard work,practice and dedication isnt all that important once you take enough drugs to look cool or impress a certain group of people.

    Im about to offend many people here but as a musician i feel it my duty to instill a bit of common sense here, so here we go, the top 3 most overrated musicians (alive and dead) in the drug scene :

    Kurt Cobain - an ok song writer with an ok voice, and barely more than a beginner guitar player. Yet he is often cited as one of the best guitar players in history, but only by people who dont have a clue about guitar. And somehow he gets more recognition than a real grunge/rock vocalist from the same time - Layne Staley.

    Jim Morrison - an ok song writer, and an ok singer. Nothing special here. Plus he apparently wasnt much of a psychedelic user at all, instead he just kept up the image to appease a certain crowd.

    Pete Doherty - CANNOT SING. I havent listened to enough of his songs (because i was so offended by the sound) so i cant comment on his song writing abilities. And he can just about string some basic chords together on the guitar. Yet regarded a some sort of "deep misunderstood poet". He is just a drug abuser who enjoys a singalong, and for some reason people worship him.

    --------------------------

    To all the people who are fans of the above artists , i fully understand that everyone is into different music. And im not bitching about the above artists as such, at the end of the day they were only doing their own thing and i fully respect that. I even enjoy a track or two from a couple of the above artists. What i am complaining about is that these people are regarded by many to be of almost godlike status, and so many great musicians (drugs users or not) dont get any recognition. It an injustice which pisses me off big time.

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  1. Tom Cruise
    As an audiophile SWIM must comment on this. SWIM doesn't have much to say, but quality of music is VERY important to him. He only listens to the sounds that sound nearly orgasmic to his ears. SWIM is a rather heavy drug user but it does not matter to him whether or not the artists he listens to use or not. SWIM cares if they sound appealing to his ears. One name that comes to mind is Vaski, a more recent dubstep producer who has made an incredible remix of a Brittney Spears' 3. If anyone here gets a chance they should check it out. Quality of audio > anything else to do with the artist/composer.
  2. Aberdonian
    my favourites of all time Stone Roses
    led zep
    pink floyd
    rolling stones
    oasis
    music is my only drug now apart from nicotine and the sensations it can produce are crazy i get chemical recall with a lot of it , sometimes i hear a tune and i can remember exactly how i felt what i was using who i was with and that might have been 10 yrs ago and me being absolutely mangled , but ask me what i did yesterday and i have no idea,lol think drugs have smashed my short term memory!
  3. welshmick
    I'm not a musician, so I can't compare on tech ability.

    I do think the Beatles, were brilliant.
    no one has ever come close to Sgt Peppers.

    Led Zeppelin were brilliant, even though I am fed up to the teeth with 'Stairway to Heaven'

    Cream - Brilliant.

    The Doors - unsure never listened much, I think Jim Morrisons lifestyle just made people envious.

    Also highly rated by me :

    Jimi Hendrix
    Black Sabbath
    Deep Purple.
    Stealers Wheel.
    Jethro Tull
    Hawkwind.

    I've missed severalteen that I have loved.

    Excellent thread, just wanted to say something. :thumbsup:
  4. kryshen
    I personally really detest "undying loyalty," or when someone says that you should love a song or cd because you love the band. It's like someone wearing clothes just for the brand name. Ugh, I just compared music to fashion... hari kari time...


    Back, the spirits rejected my sacrifice.

    Does anyone know of good psychedelic metal bands? I mean, we have Tool, if you consider them metal, but there has to be more...
  5. podge
    Swims not a big Smashing Pumpkins fan but does agree they have some good tunes.

    I must disagree Major Tom - personal taste is just that, personal taste. Depending on where you live and what music you listen to, your ears will adjust to these musical intervals and rhythms....so for one person the Rolling Stones may sound great, and for another Ravi Shankar may sound great. Peoples ear's develop over time depending on the music they listen to and how much time they give to listening to particular types of music.

    My personal opinions remain the same - Rolling Stones, The doors are not my cup of tea and their musical prowess is not impressive even by objective standards. I do enjoy a couple of tracks from these artists but thats not nearly enough to warrant an undying loyalty. Zeppelin and Floyd have their moments too but there is still a lot left to be desired ..... Floyds lyrics can get pretentious and some of their music is just tripped out nonsense - not progressive or intellectual. Zeppelin would be easier to respect had they not plagerised some of what are now considered their classics, but still swim enjoys quite a few Zeppelin tracks. Although swim isnt an unquestioning fan of any of these bands he has bothered to learn bits and pieces of music by 3 of those 4 artists so i guess their not all bad. But demanding people like these bands because you do is not a good argument, and i still believe they are all overrated.

    Swim was lucky enough to catch Deep Purple live recently - quality stuff !!!
  6. guifen
    This blog and the subsequent discussions/ arguments just scream awesome. Getting back to the original topic of musicians and psychedelics...it's hard to believe that no one's mentioned the Smashing Pumpkins. Although Jimmy Chamberlin had a bad rep for being a junkie, many people overlook Billy's drug use. While Billy Corgan may not be all to great of a guitarist, his lyrics (the early stuff at least) definitely scream psychedelic use. He was also quoted saying that he did a lot of LSD while recording their first album (Gish), resulting in the in "LSD like shots" in the music video for "Siva."
  7. MajorTom
    To each his own, Thats the biggest cop out, Not to each his own, thats not how it works, so If I told you that eating grass hoppers was a more efficient way of getting nutrients than eating fruit or vegtibles, is that what you would say, To each his own?

    everyone has the music they like that may not be everyone elses cup of tea, However their are certain bands that you just shut up and dont even dare compare modern singers/guitarists with... or bash for that matter. and thats about as plain and clear as i can make it, If you dont know what bands im talking about than go back to 1950's and start from their and work your way forward,

    Im a closet Tears for fears fan, ok maybe i dont care who knows it, however my point is that I know alot of people probably dont like them, now im also a Rolling stones fan, and if somone say's that the Stones suck, than i know that they are completely ignorant to good music, Its not to each his own when it comes to acts like the Rolling stones, Zepplin, Floyd, you dont fuck with these bands ... and yes you know who else you dont mess with ... the Doors,... yet another one of those bands were you really should just keep quiet when thinking negatively about them.
  8. kryshen
    ^^ have to say that Vai is my favourite "virtuoso," but ONE thing I dislike is his inability to play rhythm. it's all flash, none of it is just solid. It's a different feel, for sure. Regardless, he captures emotion with his instrument perfectly. It's admirable, to say the least.

    On Petrucci, I totally agree with the emotionally expressive part. The part that gets me is that he seems to have every single technique mastered by any guitarist ever... just refined. Listen to The Shattered Fortress and you'll see techniques from Tool, Korn, Metallica and a couple other bands emulated and perfected well, maybe not the Tool part... but, I mean...)

    I am also becoming pretty into rock operas. i just stumbled on a band called Avantasia, let me list a few names, just to catch some metalheads in the act: Kiske, Kai Hansen, *Alice Cooper*, Timo Tolkki, Sascha Paeth, Jens Johanssen (best keyboardist alive), Bruce Kulick (yes, from Kiss), and of course Tobias Sammet, the best vocalist besides Dickonson ever to roam the earth, and a better songwriter to boot (gasp, he SAID it!)

    The cds are phenomenally well put together, the stories well written and creative, and probably some of the most intricately dual and even triple vocal parts ever written for metal.

    I advise anyone to check them out, they've got quite a story to tell.


    And oh yes, Jimi Hendrix, the Richard Pryor of music.... does that metaphor(metaphor?) work? I am re-discovering Hendrix.... it's pretty great.

    How about The Band? Or Bob Dylan? I'm curious to hear about people's opinions of these old greats
  9. podge
    I havent been watching my blog of late so apologies for my late response. Its great to see the conflict has ensued in my absence. :)

    Im gonna have to reply to all the Morrison lovers firstly, fair enough if he's your thing but he is certainly overrated in swims book. And he is certainly not a fore father of rock - vocalists, while usually the most famous member of a band are usually not the creative influence behind the musical arrangements, which is the predominant factor in conveying a genres specific style, and as such it often tends to be the musicians (not the vocalists) who are regarded as the people who create and define genres in the first place. Even if Morrison was a huge trip head, i was under the impression he played up the image quite a bit and he was mainly a drinker but perhaps im wrong, even so - many of the lyrics can be interpreted as pretentious nonsense as opposed to genuine psychedelic inspired poetry. And even if his lyrics were truly inspired by psychedelics it doesnt automatically make them better/deeper than non drug inspired lyrics.

    Again - to each his own, swim doesnt hate The Doors, or Jim Morrison ..... but he doesnt believe he should be considered an icon of psychedelic culture. He certainly shouldnt be held in as high esteem as Hendrix is held. I stand by what i said - he's an ok songwriter, and he has ok voice, but he's nothing special.

    Swim is very impressed by Dream Theatre but honestly isnt a a huge personal fan. Swim is a big fan of many guitar virtuosos, but doesnt quite rate John Petrucci as one of the top emotionally expressive guitarists - there no arguing about his technique, and whens he's good - DAMN he's good, but stylistically he can be quite limited. Steve Vai and Joe Satriani often stick to certain styles too, but they often branch out into more adventurous area's too - especially Vai.

    Cant complain about any of the drummers mentioned - as far as I can tell they are all awesome, and not being a drummer myself i cant really give a educated guess as to who is the best. Technically it would certainly either be Portnoy or Peart, at a guess id say Portnoy. But as we all know, the final decision about music, is how it effects you personally.
  10. MajorTom
    bashing morrison? I dont know how you expect anyone to agree with you when you speak with such blasphemy, cobain is one thing,.... dont start bashing one of the four fathers of rock
  11. ImSoHappy
    Fuck you people I like U2. Just kidding, but honestly I think Bono is an awesome singer, probably has alot to do with preference in the end I suppose. Good thread though!
  12. beentheredonethatagain
    I dig this blog.

    kurt cobain, was an excellent song writer, no one ever , not a great guitar player, his tunning is off , but his phrasing with his voice, very hip, for the time, and still holds up well.

    Jim morrison well his style left a lot to be desired.

    the other cat I dont know.
  13. Mr. Mojo Risin
    I like the doors probably one of my favorites (but personal preference). Also Jim Morrison was, indeed all of them were quite big acidheads, especially Jim for a good 2 or 3 years when he went on a total rampage with the drug (12,000 mikes anyone?) Also Jimson Weed, Probably Peyote, huge pot head at the beginning, Coke, but for the last 2 or 3 years he was pretty much just drinking. Pink Floyd is also a favorite. Especially some of the middle transition period (Meddle anyone?). Animals is quite underrated by the general public.

    The Kinks are quite underrated, and so are the Velvet Underground. Did some quite forward thinking stuff. Part of the cult that is associated with the music of the 60's and 70's is the fact that a lot of it was very influential and very new. Thats why the Beatles were so big for a while is innovation. Elvis basically just watered down blues, and introduced it to white America. I could go on and on.
    And yes I think almost everyone is in agreement, Cobain is a mediocre (at best) guitar player.
    However I don't think that being a "good" band or even musician revolves entirely around technical prowess. Sometimes the best is the one who simply does the part that is just right for the song. The one that feels no need to show off and is simply content to do the basic part because that is what compliments the song, even if they can play more technically advanced stuff.
  14. kryshen
    mmm, to be honest... I don't see the big fuss about Niel Peart. People get hung up on the massive kit. he's good, don't get me wrong... but a lot of my drummer friends tell me that his stuff isn't that hard to play.

    Jon Bottom was amazing too
  15. Nature Boy
    Portnoy and Carey aren't the best drummers alive. Neil Peart kicks both their arses though Phil Collins in his Brand X days was the business!
  16. kryshen
    bah, another add on.. I keep getting more stuff to add on. A friend of mie was on shrooms and litened to Dream heater for the first tim. He was BLOWN AWAY. He heard Count of Tuscany right at the peak, and the drums and guitar just... seperated his mind from his body, It was so amazing that he felt convinced that God had channeled Portnoy and Petrucci to give the world's greatest gift through this single (19 minute long) song.

    I have one bitch about Iron Maiden.. Don't get antsy, I still think that Dickinson is one of, if not the best singer ever, but a LOT of the songs have the same lyrical rhythm. Also, I was listening to rock in rio. and I realized that I could never ever listen to an Iron Maiden CD... because they are ust SOOO good live... that their cds suck by comparison.


    On Slayer... I really like PARTS of Slayer ongs... but Araya's voice almost always ruiins it for me. i think God Hates us All was a phenomenal cd... but everyone else seems to hate it.

    I'm just going to put this out there as well, I think that virtuiosos like Steve Vai and Satch are some of the best music to listen to on psychedelics... or so my friends tell me. The insane talent just bends your mind. I think it's because there is one thing that sets these musicians apart: the ability to capture raw emotion in their instruments, with no vocals. Listen to Steve Vai's For the Love of God. You know exactly what he is saying... it's like being linked to him telepathically. It's beyond amazing.

    Yes, I have been ranting too long... I suppose that music and.... this forum (cough) are the two thingas that interet me more than anything else in this world
  17. kryshen
    OH, one more comment about Nickleback. Don;t get me wrong... I hate them (haha, because liking them would be a crime) BUT I have heard Chad Krueger cover a metallica song live and did a better job than James did. (Sad But True, I believe). Now I'm a lover of old metallica, and I can admire anyone who has a voice ike Jame's. Cjhad Kruegar is a good singer.. it's a shame his band is so bad.
  18. kryshen
    Oooooo, someone actually went there... Tool, not an awesome band? Well, I can't disagree with you there... seeing as its just an opinion, but unintelligible lyrics? I have never heard a song tool has written that ha failed ot have amaaazing lyrics. Danny Carey is one of the best drummers alive, overshadowed perhaps by Mike Portnoy. Adam Jones isn't exactly an amazingly talented guitarist, but I also know that his sound is almost impossible to duplicate.

    Also, I have one suggestion: eat some shrooms and listen to Aenema, then Lateralus, then 10,000 days. The cds were written for psychedelic effects.

    Not to mention the videos. Just breathtaking animatiov, and every single one of them has an underlying message as well. Watch the video for Vicarious, and contemplate the idea of rebirth and the messages of eastern spirituality. It is a very intellectual integration.


    MOVING on. Honestly... though people will hate me for saying it.... The Doors.
    The Beatles too. Although the Beatles movies are DEFINITELY worth it.

    hmmmm, anyone else? To be honest, I have no idea what other bands are in the "drug world" perhaps someone could give me a ist of all of these bands... just so I can decide which one do not belong
  19. salviablue
    This thread is giving me the fear now, all the hate towards so many of my personally highly rated muso's. Musicians, I must add, that out of most of the people I know/have known, (and I'm a musician, and so where 80% of my mates, and much of my earlier life was spent at music festivals, playing gigs, watching gigs, practice rooms, music shops, etc..) hadn't even heard of a lot of the stuff I'm now into. Although I picked up the odd bits and peices from them......
    The point I'm making is, maybe some of these groups where overrated at the time, and its also relevant by whom, what 'groups' they where idolised by and why.........

    e.g. Gong - extremely good session musicians, brilliant use of sound and composition, very good. They lost a lot of their innovative creativity once all the orig members had left and hillage's attention started to wander.
    I was introduced to gong by a pot head whom at the time was 17 to my 22, he was no musician. None of my friends had heard of them.
    Atm,. they didn't have too much following until the mid Hillage period and after, and even then....
    But, to those introduced to the likes of pot and lsd whilst listening the musical joys of early gong, what a great introduction.

    Hendrix, excellent guitarist, even by todays standards (I'm not comparing just his technical style, which was still good by todays standard, but not to that of the masters of technical wankery) in both technicallity, innovation, versatility and song writing.

    Morrison, OK, over rated, but an essential part of an extremely influencing and ultimately a very good musical outfit. Just a great shame the rest of the band don't get the recognition they deserve.

    A big hugely overrated "druggie", Elvis. Some good shit, some innovation, brilliant media/stage whore, good vocal musician, far too much sell out pop shite though.

    Beatles. Hmmm, tough one. One of the masses when they begun, my dad's band had played the same stage/nights as them and could just as easily have been "in the right place...". They're psychedelic period was rather cliche, but as was much of the "movement" atm., but at least they used drugs to their musical advantage.

    I dont even know why bands like slayer and maiden have been mentioned, nothing to do with drugs - slayer - beer and weed, maiden - beer (bar a.smith, the psychedelic warrior, sort of).

    But talking metal, Pantera (anselmo era), very underrated, and in places heavy pot and beer influenced/embodied.
    Metallica, first album - crap, everything else up to the black album, genius.
    Slayer - everything up to and including the divine intervention - awesome.
    Sort of metal, Killing joke - although neither under nor over rated, still worth a mention.
    prog metal - dream theatre, that, although despite their name sake, afaik, doesn't invole much psychedelic drug use/involvement expect in the view of how "it nearly ruined them/him (portnoy) - but even though they are over rated, they do have the ability to be fucking awesome too.

    Can, another massively under rated band whose use and influence of psychedelics has pushed musical boundaries.

    Cant believe they haven't been mentioned before, ozric tentacles.
    The amount of people that have thought these over rated, esp. their early chaos soup type stuff i've met has been beyond belief (usually only after I've introduced them to them). There (somewhat fictional) iconic status is well deserved, and I dont think anyone can argue their use of psychedelics in their music.

    Primal Scream, fucking brilliant, but the members own shit is just that. Remarkable how a joining of slightly differing styles and a shed loads of "aceed" can bring out the best......

    let me mention cobain, thats it.....no seriously, very over rated player, slightly over rated lyricist, but he really was, when he felt like it, a damn good song writer, although I think grohl had something to do with that.

    Now this is hard for me to say, but Alex patterson (the orb), over rated. He's great that he got together some great 'musicians' and wrote some earth shattering albums and fucking top tracks (uforb, orbvs terarrvm, assassin, fluffy clouds, toxygene etc.) but on his own, or when he struggles to keep a writing unit together long enough, not good at all.

    Another difficult one, Maiden (I know, I said I thought they've nothing much to do with this thread), wrote some phenomenal stuff, but that stuff nobody knows, they don't play it live. Plus, individually, the members are shite writers, but together, even if the writing is mostly just harris, they can reach epic proprotions (although since their "reunion" they just write mainly stuff thats good live, with the odd musical tihnk about bits, and the a.smith - free years where bloody aweful, yet he's not so good on his own either.)

    Which actually leads me to the point that even though individual musicians may have been overly drug idolised undeservedly, or over rated, individually, its often their combination with the rest that makes them deserved of their title.

    Over rated shite: Verve, white strypes, that twat from the baby shambles, although he did do something worth listening to, apparently....

    theres so much more.......and there is stuff I specifically wanted to include that i've probs forgotten, but ......
  20. Nature Boy
    Can I mention Syd Barrett here? Is it just me or were Pink Floyd not much of a band when he was in it? In the "drug world" he's somewhat idolised because of his LSD use and subsequent insanity. For me, David Gilmour's talent is infinitely better.