By Alfa · Oct 19, 2005 · ·
  1. Alfa


    Marijuana shouldn't be illegal because it is dangerous (it's not), and it shouldn't be illegal because it's a "gateway drug" (it's not).

    It should be illegal because of what it does to Latin America.

    It is an undeniable fact that every time someone buys marijuana, they are helping to fund a horrifically bloody civil war in Latin America that's been going on for decades. Thanks to Americans' drug money, it shows no signs of stopping.

    Tom O'Connor, a prominent criminal justice professor at North Carolina Wesleyan College, states on his Web site that 90 percent of the marijuana in the United States is from Latin America.

    This high demand has given rise to several suppliers, the most vile of those being the FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Columbia).

    FARC is a drug-funded terrorist organization that is so out of control that, according to O'Connor, they don't even try to conceal their kidnappings anymore; they simply refer to them as "taxes. "

    This is what America's quest to get high has wrought.

    One could make the argument that if marijuana were legal, it would be sold by legitimate businesses who wouldn't buy it from Latin American drug cartels, but this is incorrect for two reasons.

    First, legalization wouldn't stop the flow of illegal marijuana into the United States; if anything, it would make it flow faster and harder.

    This is because legitimate businesses, if allowed to sell marijuana in America, would have to follow all of the U.S. business laws that the drug cartels laugh at. The price of legal marijuana would then skyrocket compared to its illegal counterpart.

    For example, would you buy American-made marijuana from RJ Reynolds at $300 an ounce, or would you buy illegal Latin American marijuana from RJ the drug dealer at a tiny fraction of that price?

    Enough people would choose RJ the drug dealer over RJ Reynolds that it would make legally selling marijuana a non-profitable venture and the drug lords would keep on laughing maniacally all the way to the bank.

    Second, this argument assumes that the companies who choose to go into the marijuana business (and I'm not talking about landscaping) will refuse to purchase their product from the cartels. This is giving profit-driven entities way too much credit.

    The history of Americans buying products from companies who procured their wares in less than savory ways (oil, coffee, cotton, et al.) is long and disgraceful. Just as Exxon and Unocal buy oil from Saudi Arabia and pretend not to notice the decapitations, marijuana companies will buy from Latin America without a second thought.

    Marijuana should stay illegal because America shouldn't throw in the towel in the war on drugs, not when that would be a huge boon to some of the most despicable people on earth.

    Instead it should end its futile and punitive war against drug consumers in the north and take the war to the real enemies - the drug suppliers down south.



    The mere fact that there is no reason to keep the drug illegal is reason enough to legalize it. Just look at the most common arguments put forth by the "marijuana is the devil's harvest" enthusiasts.

    First, it is contended that marijuana is a "gateway drug" that often leads to heroin, cocaine or other, harder drugs. Anti-drug advocates use the fact that most users of heavier drugs have tried marijuana as proof.

    Ridiculous. By this logic, the same argument could be made to make alcohol illegal, because a vast majority of heavier-drug users consumed alcohol before moving on to harder drugs.

    Second, physical damage done to users that abuse the drug and other dangers would be increased.

    Hypocritical. According to the editors of the prestigious British medical journal, The Lancet, "It would be reasonable to judge cannabis as less of a threat ... than alcohol or tobacco."

    Furthermore, a federally commissioned report by the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine states, "Except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range tolerated for other medications." Cigarettes are legal in this country, so clearly the effects of the smoke are not enough to justify prohibition.

    The strongest case for marijuana legalization, however, is sheer economics. According to the NORML Report on Sixty Years of Marijuana Prohibition in the U.S., the arrest and prosecution of more than 700,000 people on marijuana charges (close to 90 percent of which for possession alone) cost taxpayers between $7.5 billion and $10 billion annually.

    If marijuana were legalized, not only would taxpayers no longer have to pay for such needless processes, but private firms would also spring up, sell marijuana, turn a profit and return tax revenues to the government. Just as cigarettes and alcohol generate enormous tax revenues, marijuana would do the same.

    And for those concerned profits are going back to drug lords in Colombia, don't be. As it stands, marijuana bought today already drives demand that supports Latin American terrorist organizations such as FARC, but legalized marijuana will curtail this demand.

    Think of legalized marijuana in terms of the oil trade. Currently, the United States is heavily dependent on Middle Eastern oil, which is widely seen as a huge problem. But had the Middle East been, say, Canada, no such problem would exist, and instead of constantly seeking to diversify, America would have been satisfied in dealing with its laid back neighbor to the north.

    The same goes for marijuana. As new companies emerge, of course they will look first to Latin America, but the political consequences of such an action will soon catch up to them.

    The result: a massive search to diversify, which, unlike oil, is accomplished much easier in the field of marijuana. Then, over time, marijuana will be produced domestically, and the power of the Latin American drug cartels will diminish.

    Thus, keeping marijuana illegal is absurd. We must legalize marijuana immediately and begin "reefing" the benefits today.

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  1. Nature Boy
    Interesting debate. Looking at it even from a very neutral perspective, the second speaker presents his argument more impressively. That statistic about 90% of US marijuana coming from South America puzzles me for two reasons. The first being, that it's a blatant lie as far as I am informed because I was pretty certain the vast majority of marijuana in the US is grown in the US or imported from Canada. And secondly, if marijuana was legalised, wouldn't that open the door for US marijuana farms just like they have tobacco crop farms dotted all over the nation?
  2. Loser
    we couldnt handle the change.... legalizing would cause harm... weed is
    just to public... all over the media.. it was cause so much change and
    problems... i believe it is fine how it is... just dont be stupid when
    using it... and then there is no problem with legalization... if u dont
    publicly exploit what your doing... and dont break any other laws then
    there is no problem... pretty much... so legalization wouldnt
    matter.... so its fine how it is... just as long as police cant
    unjustily search u or your belongings... then things are ok...

    im neutral on this mostly tho... i dont enjoy it so i wouldnt care for it to be legalized...

    one thing i dont like is that out of all drugs... why do the ppl seem
    to get dumber if they smoke weed... are they really getting dumber or
    do they just enjoy acting dumb? oh well
  3. Nature Boy
    Hmmm...your username is beginning to make sense now.

    Look, marijuana users cannot be content with the way things are. SWIM waited for two fucking hours in the freezing cold last night paranoid that he would get spotted by the police for an over-priced bag a skunk i.e. a little bit of recreational bliss to brighten up my day. There are simply too many marijuana users worldwide for us to be ignored. The law simply discriminates against us for wanting something other than the misery of getting stupidly drunk every weekend like we're "meant" to or are "allowed" to.

    I really don't see how the legalisation of weed would cause problems. In fact, I wish you would ellaborate on these so-called "problems" before you claim that they would exist in the first place. The worst thing that would happen is that a couple of million idiots would whitey their guts out (hardly the end of the world), realise that weed isn't their thing, and let the seasoned veterans get on with their smoking. After two decades or so, less people would smoke (as happened in Holland when decriminalisation and the coffeeshop culture settled) better, healthier gear and it would become an accepted luxury just like having a glass of wine with your dinner with the added bonus of freeing up millions of tax dollars that would otherwise be used locking up pot dealers and clamping down on the "devil's harvest".

    Pot may not be your thing, but it is many other people's thing, so don't ridicule it just because it doesn't float your boat.Edited by: nature_boy_liam
  4. Zandorf
    in the first article it says prices of legal marijuana would skyrocket,
    this just plain doesn't make any sense. in the netherlands you can
    smoke the best weed in the world for not much money at all and most of
    that even has to be grown indoors i beleive.

    and boy do i wish that an ounce cost a tiny fraction of 300 dollars.
  5. Loser
    i guess i should of mentioned i have no problem with people doing it...

    mainly i just wanna say that if your not responable and patient enough
    to use this substance now... then i can only see bad things happening
    if it was legalized...
  6. Nature Boy
    Huh? That's hardly relevant seeing as the exact same thing applies to alcohol, or any legal psychoactive for that matter. And the thing is, there aren't many conceivable "bad things" that could happen. Weed does not kill people and it doesn't impair people's driving as extremely as alcohol does. There's no real argument out there that logically explains why it should not be legalised. Come up with one and you'll earn three gold stripes from me...ok?
  7. Sektor
    legalise weed? nah man fuck that shit, prices would fall through the ground, one can make a good buck off weed, so swis says keep it under the table, keep it illegal
  8. blindpanda_eric
    Any argument against Marijuana legalization can be applied verbatim to
    Alcohol, which is legal. The two, side by side, should either be
    legal or illegal. <- More or less what nature boy has
    said so far. Now, here is the problem. Prohibition of
    Alcohol did not work, it infact caused more problems than it fixed,
    this is because it was deeply rooted into culture. Now,
    Prohibition of Marijuana did work. Although like before with
    Alcohol, you can argue that it did not because people are still doing
    it. To a degree it did work, there isn't a huge adult marijuana
    culture as with Alcohol there is a huge adult culture with.
    However, there wasn't a real chance for those in the Marijuana culture
    to rebel against its prohibition, and unarguably its prohibition didn't
    cause a huge uproar where almost everybody was breaking the law to get
    a drink, like with Alcohol.

    Legalization may or may not work. There are alot of stupid people
    that may abuse it to an insane degree if it is legal. However,
    that argument can be made for Alcohol too.

    You'll be singing a different song when you get busted for selling it.

    Edited by: blindpanda_eric
  9. Nature Boy

    Prices would be a LOT cheaper for me if it were legalised.
  10. elbow
    Maybe I'm misinformed, but I thought that cocaine was the drug turning
    much of latin america into narco-states, with marijuana constituting a
    less significant portion of international trafficking.

    Most marijuana in the US is grown domestically, I had heard?

    Can anyone confirm or deny this?
  11. TLG05


    It's good to know that everytime you buy grass from your friendly neighbourhood grower, you are helping to fund a horrific civil war.
  12. big-lester
    if MJ would be legal world wide, africa could have some economy:

    Hennep, poor country's like Etheopia could grow hennep for clothes and
    rope, they could have some economy and some people there would have job

    if MJ would be legal world wide we wouldn't have to chop all the rain
    forrests down because you can make very good paper from Hennep.

    It's such a shame that it isn't accepted , even in holland, Grassland of the world, people are still very negative about MJ.
  13. Nature Boy
    Yeah I noticed that about the place too. Lots of judgemental fucks in business suits on the streets of Amsterdam tutting at me because I was wearing baggie jeans and a flannel shirt looking like a pretty obvious stoner.
  14. enquirewithin
    Marijuana should stay illegal because America shouldn't throw in the towel in the war on drugs, not when that would be a huge boon to some of the most despicable people on earth.

    Instead it should end its futile and punitive war against drug consumers in the north and take the war to the real enemies - the drug suppliers down south.

    This author has got some mixed up arguments, based on prjudice.FARC depend on coca/ cocaine production in some areas. MJ seems to be less important. But they also operate without 'narco-trafficking' and have other ways of raising money.
  15. curiosityNcat
    The main reason that the government won't legalize it is money. Alcohol is legal because it can easily be taxed and easily controlled. Weed on the other hand is just what its name says its a weed, its not very hard to grow at all.Just think about it how many of your friends have tried to grow it. I think that they should at least legalize THC in food form. The only negative effects caused by marijuana is from smoking it because when you smoke any substance it deprives oxygen to your brain along with the many other carcinogens you inhale. Then they would at least have something they could tax and control.
  16. oldfart
    IF MJ was legal, we would be able to grow it without fear of prosecution, persecution, or stupidity caused by latin american drug cartels

    I repeat with all the uses and delivery methods, and goverments that swear by allowing the persuit of hapiness why does SWIM have to feel dirty for even thinking about MJ with SWIMs medical needs and the amount of money SWIM is saving on non prescription medication (MJ) SWIM should be allowed to persue hapiness in beingg able to be a functioning member of society.
  17. stoneinfocus
    If america wouldn´t fight with a billions budget in other countries, trying to undermine governements and trying to rebuold them after their will, then there´d be business men not a civil war or farc and the problmes would be minor and soley a social issue, like it always is with unjustice.

    And comapred to alcohol and tobacco, any of the traditional and as good recognized drugs could be legalized, it´s just that anyone can distill some sugar, that´s been fermented to alcohol, and mostly anyone can grow a weed plant without much notice.

    Just because chances for getting caught with MJ are rare and with "carefully use" noone would get into troulbe is non-sense, it has to be all decriminalized and be lieberal if a major group manages to use drugs and most porblems are or onyl exist of criminalization and predjudice nd being hunted down by the hillbilly-catholic-fascist-fag-haters-racists-mob.

    And ovioulsy there many things that can get worse without any drugs involved and can cause more serious harm, than all recreational drugs together and society is going this direction right now.
  18. Beeker
    my summer to fall garden would look much different if Cannabis was legalized today ... and the neiborhood kids could come one night and I'd have to scream, "don't steal my weed! .. and stay off my grass!" shake a cane around and all that.

    I don't see it happening in our time.
  19. oldfart
    The US Federal Government wishes to continue the "War on drugs" at home by busting the growers within the US because they make money off of the the MJ being smuggled into the US and not on the home grown. Leagalize it and put a tax on each plant sold for comercial use and then the US no longer would need to support other countries wars for the same money.
  20. OccularFantasm
    "Legalization may or may not work. There are alot of stupid people
    that may abuse it to an insane degree if it is legal. However,
    that argument can be made for Alcohol too."

    Don't give that much credit, it is impossible to abuse marijuana. after a certain amount, you will be sick, at which point smoking won't feel good anymore. Then, if you end up smoking ridiculous amounts, you'll have such a tolerance you won't even be able to get high from it. This can be dangerous with addictive drugs like heroin for example, but with a nonaddictive drug like weed, there is no danger. This is also true in part because there is no lethal dose of weed. Given this, a lot of stupid people can abuse it to an insane degree all they want, and will have no have ill effects. (Except maybe extreme munchies, a bit of lethargy, and a decreased aerobic capacity.)

    "First, legalization wouldn't stop the flow of illegal marijuana into the United States; if anything, it would make it flow faster and harder."

    Ya know its funny, economics tells me a totally different story. A steady demand and an increased supply walk into a room, a diminished price walks out. Competition would also take money away from these people if they were magically getting money from every weed sale, not to mention that the flow would be reduced because of decreased sales. In fact given the argument presented, the only argument supportive of the claims would be to legalize marijuana. Funny how anti-marijuana arguments always have giant holes in them isn't it?

    This is because legitimate businesses, if allowed to sell marijuana in America, would have to follow all of the U.S. business laws that the drug cartels laugh at. The price of legal marijuana would then skyrocket compared to its illegal counterpart."

    This truly is absurd. As mentioned previously, more supply equal lower prices. Also, the reason for the current illicit price is simply given its legal status. Think of it as an illicit tax. There is much risk in bringing weed into the country, just as much from growing it, as well as for selling it. This is the cause of the said inflation. If legal, cheap marijuana could be sold commercially like you but for rolling your own cigarettes. Probably an ounce for a dollar or two. Given this would be a lot fo leaf and such int here, this is a low example. there would still be really dank pot, which had needed hydroponics and expensive lights and lots of nutrients. These obviously would not be a couple dollars an ounce. If i am not mistaken, a joint of white widow is only 4 dollars (from some picture of the inside of a coffee shop, on this forum if I'm not mistaken). Figure a joint is approximately a gram, so 4x28=$112 Bulk may be discounted more, so lets say $100. Since tax is figured in in holland, I wont bother with it in this equation. So a hundred dollars an ounce for premium weed and nearly nothing for low grade, somehow I don't see this as more expensive. even back 30 years ago, under prohibition, weed was only $30 an ounce. Inflation of our currency has gone up some, but not that much, not 1000%

    Also, think about the good marijuana would do for the midwest. Marijuana roots extend deep into the ground very quickly, 6 feet in 2 weeks, if left to their own devices, if I recall correctly. Some may go deeper or shorter, some may take longer or less time, but thats about the standard. Now I'm sure we all remember the Dust Bowl from elementary school. Even know, the midwest isn't much to shake a stick at, from a terranial viewpoint. This would sove two problems with one stone. The midwest could become lush once more, and there would be somewhere to harvest marijuana, as it can grow in pretty much any conditions, which is probably why it is a worldwide drug.
    Note that legalization would also open up our countries hemp market. Currently all hemp products have to be imported, not to mention This would allow hemp fields to be grown. This could be used for both the rope and clothes, but also for fuel. Cannabis is 4x more potent than corn for ethanol fuel. The original model T was actually built to run on ethanol, not gasoline. This could help us with a gas shortage tremendously, making us completely non-dependent on any foreign country for oil. This I believe is the greatest reason the government refuses to legalize cannabis. The united States has the largest oil reserve inthe world, and we are just wait and getting as much money out of our citizens hands as possible, before we start to drain them again, and more viciously with out own oil supply. It seems ironic cars were never meant to run on oil, yet all do now. Don't suppose big oil companies have any say in what our country does do you?

    I could rant more, but I'll save you the eyestrain, as I am tired and going to bed.
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