Who you are vs. who you think you are?

By Mick Mouse · Feb 9, 2012 · ·
  1. Mick Mouse
    This thought is actually a continuation of a similar thread in a different sub-forum that I have been giving some thought and, as is usual in those situations (Me actually thinking about something, that is!) it has led me down paths totally different than what I had expected.

    Anyway, the original question was this: do you refer to yourself based on your race or ethnicity, your country of birth, where your ancestors came from, or some combination of the above? And if so, why?

    In America-and in no other country that I am aware of-people tend to refer to themselves via their "heritage" more so than anything else. For instance, you have "African-Americans", "Mexican-Americans", "Italian-Americans", so forth and so on. Then, God forbid we should forget the "Native Americans"!

    Come on, are you fucking kidding me? I know this guy, he is a 5th generation Mexican immigrant, can't speak a word of Mexican, parents can't speak Mexican, and has never been outside of Los Angeles County. He works in the computer industry and makes good money. Has a nice house, nice car, and his kids go to decent schools.

    He gets straight butt-HURT if you don't refer to him as a Mexican-American. His father and his grandfather are both decorated American military veterans, yet he feels the need to dilute his citizen-ship for some reason. Some of the African-Americans are the same way. You live in the richest country in the world, yet you scream that you are oppressed. 90% of you can't even find Africa on the map, yet you pass the race card around like a bad case of the clap. It's over, so get over it.

    My family, to my eternal shame, owned slaves. My family also freed them in 1862, deeded them half of the family homestead, and our families are buried side by side to this day in the family grounds in Kentucky. My point is this-we paid our bill. In blood and shame. Quit screaming for "reparations" because some ancestor of yours was dumb enough to get caught in inter-tribal warfare and got sold to some Europeans, who then dumped them here. We as a country screwed up. It took us awhile (and a lot of blood) to get it figured out, but we did it. We accept you as who you are, not what color your skin is. You are an American. Be proud of that.

    My ancestors came here from Ireland in the early 1770's. Members of my family have fought in every conflict this country has ever had. We even fought against each other in 1864.


    Because this is our home. We are Americans. Not Irish-Americans. We were born here. In America. We are the "Native Americans". American Indians, while just as "native" as we were, are also immigrants....just like we were. We have watered the Tree of Liberty faithfully and often. And we stand ready again. My oldest daughter (16) still at home told me the other day that she wanted to join the AMERICAN military when she was old enough. I asked her why she was interested, especially knowing what I went through (it was 12 years of ugly). It wasn't about a job or getting tuition for school....no, she said it was her responsibility as a citizen.

    While this is about who you are vs. who you think you are, I know WHAT I am. I'm fucking proud of my kid! That's another thread, though.

    That covers race, birth country, and ancestry, I guess. It still doesn't answer the real question, though. Why isn't being just "American" good enough? We are a proud country with a proud heritage. Yes, we make mistakes, but we learn from them and (what makes us different, I would like to think) don't repeat them. Certainly, there is oppression, but where isn't there? I would like to think that it is much less here than in other countries, but I know that is probably not true. Again, the difference here is that there are mechanisms in place by which you can have your day in court, your 15 minutes of fame, your time in the spotlight, if you feel "oppressed".

    The Irish and the Chinese built our railroads and our cities while getting spit on by their "betters". The Northern, Central, and Southern Europeans tilled our land and gave us food, while getting spit on by their "betters". People from all over the world come here to get spit on by their "betters". But they keep coming. And coming! Why?
    Is it who we are, or who they think we are?
    Is it because here, with a little hard work, you can be the one doing the spitting, while in your country, you just got spat on?

    If you have a dream, one man-one American-can change the world. it doesn't matter if you are black, a techno-geek, or a pirate/robber baron/captain of industry/philanthropist/skinny white guy with big ears. Americans with names like King, Jobs, or Gates. Heroes to many, for what they have done or are doing. Scoundrels to others, for the same reasons.

    But Americans first. They are shining stars in a sky full of shining stars, and there are many, many others just like them.

    Why isn't that enough anymore? Are you so embarrassed by this country that you have to hide your citizenship? "Oh, I'm not American, I'm Mexican-American" Or African American. Or whatever. You think that will keep the Taliban from capping your ass? Ain't no Afgani-Americans over there! Or maybe you still feel some sort of alliegience to a country that was so bad that your ancestors left and never went back to? Do you think it's just Gangsta to be something you aren't? Go to the wrong neighborhood and flash the wrong sign. It won't matter if you are Mexican, African, or what, you WILL get an American ass-whipping, get shot with an American gun firing American bullets, and if you are lucky, you might get to leave while still alive.

    This is not, nor was it meant to be, a racist rant. If anyone is offended by my words, then I apologize. Not because of what I said, but because it was offensive and I didn't mean it to be. I truly do not understand why being "just" an American isn't enough.

    We built on a concept-the idea of personal liberty and individual rights-and exported it to the world, which has changed the world forever. Some might argue the whole Magna Carta thing, but that was mostly for internal use. We export democracy and freedom.

    We have sent men to the Moon and machines into the void of interstellar space. Done the same in the depths of the oceans. We have consistently either led or been among the leaders in every advance in science and technology, medicine, and almost every other field.

    We saved the world. Twice. Saved parts of it even more.

    What's wrong with that? We never asked you to pay the bill. We do it essentially for free, and then make it available for everyone. Obviously we want to get paid, we are, after all, capitalists, but what I mean is that we publish, we report, we make available, and we don't restrict access to information. As I say this, visions of Microsoft's source code are going through my head, but even proprietary information gets out there sooner or later. Hell, look what Anonymous just did to Symantec!

    Think that would happen in Pyong Yang? Or Beijing? No, American is the magnet for tech theft, and there is a good reason for that.

    So, why does everyone hate us? Why do our own citizens feel the need to dilute their citizenship? Is it because of who we are, or because of who you think we are?

    I didn't go to your country and destroy your way of life. I don't use heroin, I don't care if you kill your own people or develop bigger bombs, and I can buy oil anywhere. If you don't want democracy, that's fine! As long as you sell me your shit and buy mine, I don't care that you put the money in Swiss banks rather than in hospitals and schools for your people. I don't care if you cling to a model of government that has collapsed time after time. I don't care if you call yourself the Right Royal General Sir His Majesty King Emperer The Pope XXXIII 1/2! Go ahead and close the Strait of Hormuz (or however you spell it) and cut off 18% of your total economy. Run your country based on a misinterpretation of one of the most holy books on the planet. I don't care. I don't have to, your own people will take care of those things eventually. However, I do think you should consider yourselves damn lucky that we don't abandon Israel, because we are the only thing that keeps them from owning you. I think you should consider yourselves damn lucky that we still, for some strange reason, actually care about what you think of us, otherwise, WE would own you.

    Again, I digress. Why isn't being an American enough? Why do we have to come up with extra labels, as if it will somehow further describe us. What the fuck happened to the melting pot?

    I know who I am. I am an American who is proud of his country and of his heritage. I hate this government and I expect to see the citizens resort to the force of arms to reclaim it before I die, but I love this country. I fought and bled for it for 12 years after swearing an oath to a scrap of paper that tells us all exactly who we are.

    Free by choice and American by the Grace of God, as they say. Provided an illusion and misplaced in the time-space continuum is more like it. That's who I am. As far as who I think I am....well, I think I'm someone who has been ranting madly for way too long. Due in part to a change of meds (Ritalin is great! I've been sitting here for like 4 hours straight) and an odd way of seeing reality, but way too long.

    So, I will close this with a disclaimer. The views expressed here are solely mine and in no way reflect anything other than my way of viewing my world. If I have offended anyone in any way....well, I apologize that you became offended. Get a hold of me, I'll give you my address, you can come over and we will smoke a bowl and talk about it. If that doesn't work, then I will gladly relinquish my title of Supreme Opinionator and give you the crown and the responsibility to ask these stupid questions.

    Wow. I just proof read this and I am all OVER the map on this one! All I need is a short skirt, red, white and blue pompoms, and a brass band!****I never meant to imply (although I seem to have done a damn good job of it!)that America has somehow done all of this by herself or is some sort of world savior. We aren't. Our wins might be huge, but our loses are pretty damn spectacular as well. We have the entire free world (and everyone else too, because your best people are running away and coming here!) as partners and friends,and we are were we are because of the ideas and actions of others!**** Guess the meds were a little better than I thought! I was going to do some considerable editing, but then I thought "No, the original idea for this was how a simple man sees his world." If I edited it for political correctness, it wouldn't be real. So, like it or not, Posting Now!

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  1. Mick Mouse
    Reading this the next morning, I would just like to reiterate something. This is a very one-sided view of my world. MY world! I am certain that your view will be different, and I accept that. You views are just as real and just as valid as mine.

    Also, America is not a shining beacon on the hill that many (including me) portray us to be. We have our problems, just like everyone else, and we don't freely publish many of them, even to our own citizens. But we don't imprison you or kill you if you leak them. Well, most of the time. Hell, we even have a "Whistle-blowers Law" that protects people from that! At least we pay lip-service to freedom, if nothing else.

    On the world stage, America is still the new kid on the block. The problem is that we have money and power, so we demand to be included in the sandbox and then try to take it over. We don't do it physically, like North Korea or China, we do it financially. We can beat you up if we have to, but we would prefer to influence you until you become us.

    Sure, we will pour billions into your country and save you from the godless barbarians, Zionists, Crusaders, or anyone else who we disagree with....all for a few military bases in some out of the way location. And maybe open markets for our products, while we restrict yours. Let us build refineries for your oil, even though you sell it to someone else, so American companies get paid. You see, once you discover the joys of being an American, you will rush to our arms freely and willingly!

    No wonder you hate us. It's because we are dicks. Rich, arrogant dicks who are convinced we are right and want to share our vision with the world, whether you want it or not.

    Well, maybe we are. Maybe we have a right to be arrogant. After all, some countries have been around for hundreds and even thousand of years, but what have you done lately? We have driven progress for the last two centuries. How's that for arrogance? Typical, for a spoiled rich kid.

    I guess what it all comes down to is that we have equated domination with safety, to our detriment as both a people and a country. We will try to dominate even when there is no need for it, just because we are afraid of fear. I would prefer a little less safety and a little more liberty, but that is just me. I guess I can understand why some people hide their citizenship now. They are embarrassed by their government, but they don't understand that the government is not the country. At least not here!

    We already know that our government will continue to be a dick to the rest of the world, just because they can. But maybe if we tried on an individual level, if we were nicer to each other, then shit would roll up-hill, for a change! None of this "pay it forward" crap, just....be nice to people. Lift your head when you walk, instead of looking at the ground, and look at people in the eye and smile. For no reason! Say hello and thank you. Don't be a dick.

    That all sounds real nice, but it probably won't work. We are hard-wired as a species to be dicks, I think. It is in our nature to take from the weak while trying to get stronger. It's what carnivores do. Still, it's a thought. Maybe worth a try? As being the sole holders of the top position on the food chain, we can afford to be nice to each other, can't we? After all, we are supposed to be "evolved", "civilized", and all that crap, right? Can we at least polish the thin veneer of civilization that we claim to have? Maybe we can be seen as a nation governed by dicks, rather that a nation OF dicks? Probably not. When push comes to shove, we know that no individual nation, and very very few groups of nations can stand toe to toe with us and survive in a fight. We use that knowledge like a club, too. Don't ever think for a minute that we are NOT a colonial power, we just don't do it with force. We use influence instead. Keep your land, we want your money! Sad but true, our kindness flows downward, from the victor to the vanquished. We can afford to be nice, because we can whip your ass anytime we want?

    As an American, I'm not OK with that. It's not fucking right. If you are lower than me, then let me help you up, so we can both move forward, because it is lonely and a bit frightening being alone at the top. All I ask is that, if the situation is reversed, you do the same. Together, we will go much farther than we would separately. If we both reach for the stars and I can lift you up to grab them, we both win, right? We all live in the same house, and want the same basic things-a good life for us and a better one for our children, peace, freedom, and at least a margin of safety. Why does it matter if I'm white and you are black? Why does it matter if I'm Pagan and you are Muslim, Christian, or a member of the Holy Order of Belly-button Lint? Why does it matter if you are Taliban and I'm Conservative Constitutionalist? Why does it matter if I'm American and you are not?

    We all live in the same house. There is a shit-load of us, and more are coming all the time. We don't need to fight over labels. Labels are words, and may or may not accurately describe the contents of the package. At this point in the history of our world, there is really only one label that matters anymore anyway.


    Try being one. I'm willing, if you are. Remember-ALL men are created equal, and are endowed with certain inalienable rights. Maybe one of them should be the right NOT to be a dick.

    Anyway, one last unbelievably arrogant statement on being an American and the way we view the rest of the world and then I'm on my way out of here-Even the Gods get lonely at times, which is why we pay attention to the insects called Humans. Oh shit! They are all over the house! Quick, call the exterminator! It's too late, they're everywhere-Run! Run! Get out while you still can, because they have taken over! Ruuunnnn!

    As I seem to relate things to music or songs I have listened to over the years, I can't really leave without dropping a title here. What would describe the crazy insane world of America? How about Tombstone Blues by Bob Dylan? Although Masters of War would probably be closer to the mark!
  2. Mikey82
  3. baZING
    I respect your opinion greatly and think your posts on the rest of the forum are great, but whether you intended it to be or not, this is absolutely a bit racist and treads a really fine line of national supremacism. I'd also like to point out to you that "Mexican" is not a language. Mexicans speak Spanish.

    And indeed, God forbid we forget about Native Americans. After what true Native Americans were put through in the mid-19th century, it's a little late to be remembering them now...
  4. Mick Mouse
    A bit racist? How so? In that I say that America is a nation of dicks and wants to impose our will on society? Or is it my comments that I don't understand why being American is not enough? Or perhaps about my Mexican friend?

    The truth is that America is a racist nation, just as it is also true that we export a policy of American supremacism. I admit to that and I believe that I made that perfectly clear. I don't understand the confusion on that subject-it is what it is and that is how I see it.

    Also, Mexican is indeed a language. Spaniards speak Spanish, Mexicans speak Mexican. I will concede that it is a form of what we refer to as the Spanish language, but if a Mexican goes to Spain, he is not fully understood. Just as if a Cuban would go to Mexico, they would not be understood fully. Hell, anymore, if someone from Los Angeles goes to Mexico, they aren't fully understood!

    Pure Mexican is a beautiful language, similar in form to Spanish, but with a texture and life all its own, which makes it unique and vibrant.

    As mentioned before, everything here is my own personal opinion, and I welcome honest and thoughtful debate. No offense, unless specifically directed, is intended to anyone, and if anyone has taken offense, please contact me here or via PM with your concerns and I will work with you in an effort to resolve them. I might not change a thing, but I will at least listen and try to understand!
  5. Mick Mouse
    Having contacted baZING regarding his comment, all I will say is that I would encourage everyone to continue to tune in, because the conversation may get pretty interesting!

    Our very brief conversation has led to some new insight on both of our parts, and we are going to continue to explore this topic in an effort to reach a better understanding of each others worlds and worldviews.

    Personally, I am looking forward to this, because that was, and still is, the entire point of this blog-How a simple man views a complicated world. Anything that will help me achieve a little more enlightenment is welcome and eagerly sought after, and I think that this might be an excellent opportunity!
  6. DHCdiva
    I think this was a very brave post to make, reason being in this day and age it is common for many things to be deemed offensive even when not intended to be.
    I am not going to say whether I agree with the post or not, as I enjoyed reading it and the replies afterwards for their expressing of opinion-of which we are all entitled to do.

    I myself am seen as many different things to many different people because of a disability - although almost all of the assumptions are laughably untrue!

    I must admit, I have never actually explored the concept of who I am with regards to country/ethnicity/etc. As far as I am aware, my family have always lived in England and been born in England, but am actually starting to research my family history so who knows what may be revealed and whether that may have an impact on how I percieve my ethnicity?
    I would like to think it will have no effect apart from an interesting tale to tell my children - I have lived happily for 33 years as "This" so I cannot see any reason to change into "That" on the basis of a geneology report!
    Anyway, bottom line is, I ejoyed the post and those following it, simply because other people's opinions interest me, whether I agree with them or not.
  7. Mick Mouse
    I know exactly what you mean about being perceived as something or someone else due to a disability!

    I'm glad you enjoyed this entry, but I am even happier that you keep an open mind on something whether you personally happen to agree with it or not. That leads to interesting conversations! So, perhaps a review of my "mission statement" is in order.

    My "goal" or purpose, if you will, is stated quite clearly in the first entry in this blog-it is to help a common, ordinary, everyday person gain some understanding of the world around him. I am a product of my environment and as such, my opinions may not always be well received, especially if you are not a part of that environment, but a difference of opinion is exactly what I am looking for! It is quite easy (sometimes!) to make sense of MY world, but I want to understand yours.....and you, and how you see YOUR world, and how YOU fit in, what you think and how things that happen in the world affect you and your outlooks.

    By gaining a better understanding of others, maybe I can improve my life and relationships and how I act towards and relate to others. At this point in my life, it may be to late for me to make any meaningful change, but I can (and do!) guide and influence my kids, so they grow up to be better than me. I guess I'm trying to root out and destroy my own prejudices before they can take root and spread, and they only way to do that effectively is through knowledge and understanding.

    My goal, quite honestly, is NOT to offend, although with a project and a goal such as these, that will probably turn out to be impossible, but rather to challenge the preconceptions we have and hold so dearly. I want you to honestly look at yourself-strip away the bull-shit and look at yourself.

    Not you, the businessman. Not you, the wage-slave. Not you the college or uni student, the stay-at-home mom, the drug addict, or the genius.

    You. Not the adjective that you hide behind or that you use to describe yourself. I want to know about you-the person. Maybe then I can understand me just a bit better.

    But be warned!

    It's fucking scary at times. We hide who we are for a good reason. The first few steps on this journey of discovery are quite dark and scary, but I suspect that as we confront the darkness in a brave and fearless manner, it will retreat and the path will open up. It always does. That does not eliminate the fear of those first few steps though! A journey that starts in the darkness of ignorance is always frightening, but I'm going to go anyway.

    Coming along? (I'll hold your hand if you won't tell on me, but you have to let go if we see somebody!)
  8. DHCdiva
    Hell yeah, I'll come along! Hee hee.
    I agree, it is never a waste to feed your knowlege about other humans. They are so confusing, intricate and weird that you'll never get two with the same mindset. It's a double edged sword. I think you made yourself clear that your intention is not to offend, and I look forward to seeing the discussion grow. Albeit, there may be hairy moments along the way, but we all need to keep foremost in our mind that the intentions are innocent and not wishing to offend. X
  9. VagabondWraith
    I think the "hyphenated" American syndrome is due in large part to an inability to let go, or separate oneself from their ego, if you will. Most people, especially in contemporary American society, are told practically from infancy, how to lead a life, what to do, what not to do, what their goals should be, etc. Ergo, they lose, without realizing it consciously, their true idea of what the "self" really is, what it means, and their own true sense of who they really are. They try and make up for it in alternative (and easy) ways, such as with an identification of familial blood heritage and what have you. The same goes for people answering "Who are you?" with their occupation, be it a temporary job or a career they may not even really like deep down. It's a sad state of affairs when you ask someone who they are, and they answer with their "identification" (or mis-identification) of the self with racial make up, occupation, or some other such thing. It also is an automatic answer that doesn't require much introspective thinking, because of the lack of their sense of their true self.
  10. Mick Mouse
    Interesting comment, and quite philosophical. You speak of an "automatic answer", but how do you think that people SHOULD answer? How do you describe yourself, without resorting to titles? Hint: It IS a trick question, but you are a philosophy student, so you already know this!

    I was a philosophy student once, long ago and far away. I gave it up when I found that it left you hungry-in more ways than one!

    But back to your comment. So, if I understand you correctly, what you seem to be saying is that people refer to themselves as "whatever-American" because they are egotistical? Lets use "Mexican-American" as an example. Not because I'm racist or have issues with these people, but rather because they are the ones who, in my experience, make the biggest deal out of this issue. A Mexican moves to this country to better his life and the lives of his or her family. For clarity and to reduce other distractions, lets say that they do this legally and are not in this country unlawfully. They become a citizen, put down roots, and raise a family. They are Americans, right?

    Now, their children are born and raised. Again, in this country. Their parents didn't come here to make a killing and then go home, they came here to stay. So their children grow up and have children. All of them are Americans.

    Until one day, that is not enough anymore. One day, those children grow up and begin to refer to themselves as "Mexican-American". If I understand you correctly, this happens because they feel that they are not Mexican enough? But they are not Mexican at all! They are American, right?

    I'm deliberately stopping this here. As a Philosopher, you know why!
  11. VagabondWraith
    Hmm, should I answer your questions in order? ;) Lets see... who I am, I'm sorry if this sounds like an obtuse answer to a relatively (seemingly) simple (yet complicated) question, but for the sake of brevity, I'll *try* and keep things succinct as possible. I would answer that with a run-of-the-mill police dossier, but I'll just say I'm a piece of work in constant progress, and I guess I'm just that guy who constantly updates who he is with what he strives to be and his relations with other people :) It's been quite a few long years since philosophy, but it's like an itch on the roof of the mouth you can't help but scratch.

    As to your other question, I think, Mexican immigrants, et al, see themselves, *esp.* as torn between two groups, and are trying best to create a niche for themselves that's acceptable to both teams, lets say. As opposed to simply an American of Mexican-Indian Hertitage; due to cultutral constraints and pressures. There is an identity association formed in this culturally encouraged, nationalistic adversarial relationship between being "true" to your blood", as opposed to being just another American of Mexican heritage who wants to get ahead in life and thrive. In a lot of cases, introspection is discouraged, therefore identities lost, and the self shoved to the back burner for the sake of the masses (or whatever other pressures are hammering them.)
  12. VagabondWraith
    Also, forgot to add, by 'automatic answer', I meant simply what people feed their mind to spit out as a default (with options) answer, without thinking, to any personal "Who are you?" like questions
  13. DHCdiva
    How about this as food for thought - My 14 year old daughter's father was half Native American, half English. Her father and I seperated when she was 18 months old. He has made no effort to contact her, etc etc.
    My daughter's name is Native American, she has shown no interest in learning about Navajo culture, and although she knows about her father's ethnicity, she see's it as "the reason why I have an 'unusual' name". But, get this - her school insist on labelling her 'mixed race' even when she has expressed that she is English, feels English, and has no interest in the native american side. I have discovered that the only reason the school keep putting her down as 'mixed race other' is because it makes the school look good in ethnic minority inclusion and no other reason! It has been disclosed to me that if she had a so called 'english' sounding name, they wouldn't feel as much a need to label her as mixed race other. So my daughter is referred to as being a member of a culture (or whatever word you wish to choose) of which she has no desire to be a part of.
  14. VagabondWraith
    Actually, the answer of course, is quite "in your face" really, I realize. I had to let my cold engine warm up a bit. *Who* you are is yourself. Or rather, the answer I'd give to "Who are you?" is "Me, I'm myself". It's a very specific and concrete answer. ;) The "what", however, is where all this dubious labeling falls under. *That*, is a bit trickier, as then you delve into subjective adjectives and objectifying nouns and what have you that are then open to interpretation, as DHCdiva so accurately pointed out, and require more thought on the matter. As far as national identification goes, I *do* consider myself 100% American. But to further break that down into descriptive blood heritage is also valid. As in, I'm Irish/German in ancestry. But to answer DHCdivas question, that's a bit harder, as for me, I'd still fall under caucasian in those idiotic "fill in the bubble" race identifying things go. I've always hated those things, as they force you to make a black or white answer (no pun intended) in a nation that by it's very nature is made up of a racially ambiguous, huge palette of gray shady areas.

    For so many people (myself included when I let myself stray) the line between "what you are" and "who you are" gets blurred to the point it becomes unrecognizable almost, when it's relatively simple. The who can't be defined by interjecting it with a "what" answer when it's the what that really can be a tricky thing to define in this case when you try and break it down. I think that in order to answer DHCdiva's quandary, the "what" would be best answered by what her daughter herself feels she is identified with more when the question is put to her, as only she could best answer that. As far as nationality is concerned, it should have very little to do with blood heritage, as the two when it comes down to it, are separate, even though names can be similar if not the same. It's almost like an adversarial flag vs. blood, when it's not necessarily so. I think if say, her daughter feels she is english, or caucasian, because of herself being of mixed heritage, let her put that down. The racial "either/or" is antagonistic to the point of being offensive, so if she *does* identify more with her caucasian heritage anyways, let her put that down.
  15. DHCdiva
    I have been thinking about all this for a few days - I am what most people would refer to as "English"....I assume that means I was born in England, I live in England, and my primary langusge is English. Yet, I must admit, I do not feel English. Whatever English is! I don't think I feel affiliated to a particular country, I just happen to live here! Hee hee.
    I am not sure how you get to a point where you "feel" english/american/french whatever, or what it feels like. I know I'm human (well, so it seems) and that's as far as it goes!
  16. VagabondWraith
    That's very fair... I should add (perhaps I should've said earlier) that when faced with those idiotic racial "identification" forms, I've always wanted to hijack the form and add another box, and write in "HUMAN Race". ;)
  17. Mick Mouse
    Here is the weird part-by law, she is Navajo....whether she wants to be or not! Our American Indian problem began when the White settlers forced Indian children to deny their own culture and become "white". Then, when we tried to fix the problem by giving the tribes autonomy and the right to create their own laws, they passed laws to preserve their culture. One of which sets "conditions" on what it means to be Indian. This is done through bloodlines. If you have a certain amount of Indian blood in you, then you are an Indian. Whether you want to be or not!

    As far as those "race" questions, I always put down that I am "Native American". After all, I was born in America, so that makes me a native, right? Two can play at the politically correct word games!
  18. DHCdiva
    wow - that's interesting! So basically, even though my family have been living in England for all time (ish!) and her father was half Navajo, she is by law classed as Navajo even if she is three quarters English?? Sheesh!

    I think it would be much simpler if we were Martians... ;-)
  19. Mick Mouse
    Well, that is the law here in the U.S., and the Navajo Nation is, I believe, the main group behind these laws. I understand their reasons, and even agree with them, most of the time. But a situation like yours is a case of political correctness (and simple greed-they get more money if they have minorities present) gone too far!
  20. knightsmith
    Hey Guys,

    When you write things, its then left to how others interperate them. The person I thought I was, is differen't the person I am. To one friend, i'm a person who has integrity, I wasn't aware of this until a huge argument. I tried self improvement, and it seems i'd already got accepted for who I was, not who I thought I should be.
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