Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 3 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
Hello! I have successfully jumped off Kratom from a taper...(OK, it has only been a few days, sooo...keep your fingers crossed for me, eh?). Now, I am moving on to the often-doomed belief that I can chip successfully. I think this is probably doomed as I said, but I have never tried, so might as well try and fail as opposed to never have tried at all.
My question is this--does anyone have experience with Tramadol? What is your experience with a decent Tramadol dose (400-500 mg) as it compares to a 3 gram does of UEI Kratom? I need about 3 grams of UEI to "get off" decently on UEI. I am not discussing prices except to say that 3 grams of UEI is much more expensive than 400-500 mg Tramadol. If I was to chip once a week with the Tramadol, it would be more cost effective. Would it be as pleasurable as the UEI? Anyone know?
Beware of self-incrimination... *cough*
EDIT: The new rule regarding self-incrimination somehow never got to me. Sorry.
To answer your question: I don't think there is even a comparison. If you need 3g of UEI to "get off", odds are you're not going to feel anything from Tramadol. And it should be noted that high doses of Tramadol could induce seizures because it messes with serotoin levels. 400-500mg at a time is definitely not recommended as it already exceeds the maximum dosage per day (400mg).
Now, speaking from my personal experience, the first time I took Tramadol (100mg IIRC) I only felt a slight numbing/tingling sensation typical of opioids; second time and onwards, dose doubled, I still felt nothing but a bit of unpleasant "druggedness", so I quickly gave up. And that was before I started taking kratom, which, in my opinion, works much better than Tramadol.
Of course, reaction to a given substance varies from individual to individual and I don't have a good understanding of pharmacology, so take my word with a grain of salt.
Last edited by Nacht; 14-09-2011 at 09:46.
Reason: Correcting unnecessary third-person references
hey, thanks for your opinion. Everyone's milage may vary. I hate to sound like a Kratom noob cause I certainly am not, but is 3 grams of UEI really *that* much? I have read of people taking 5-10 grams at a time. I thought that 2.5-3 grams wasn't that bad. I must have high tolerance, but then when I jumped off Kratom recently, my witdrawals weren't that bad AT ALL. I'm talking laughable. I tapered down to two grams a day of Bali, then jumped off. AND I have been taking Kratom for over a year. So if my tolerance is really killer, why didn't I get killer withdrawals? i'm just curious and musing to myself, but if anyone wants to chime in I would love it. Haha.
Oh, and I hear different things about Tramadol. People either love it or hate it, kinda. But after doing some research, I learned that some people who have a decent tolerance still like tramadol and def. "feel it". I guess I will be the lab rat for THIS experiment!
Most people can take 1-1.5 and be set. Me personally, I mix it with normal dose of about 10-11g of plain leaf but only use about .5g of UEI. I only dose once a day though and maybe once every 2 days...
From what I've heard 2.5-3g of uei is a lot but if you weren't taking it in conjunction with plain leaf and continued to do so, I could see how tolerance could rise extremely quick to the point of using 3g.
UEI(or any extract for that matter)= rapid tolerance increase.
hey, thanks for your opinion. Everyone's milage may vary. I hate to sound like a Kratom noob cause I certainly am not, but is 3 grams of UEI really *that* much?
When you compare the amount of pure alkaloids in 1 gram of UEI i think it can be compared to using about 15-20 grams of leaf.
Thats not to say it will feel like you have taken 20 grams of leaf, just like taking 1 gram of a 20x extract will not give you thesame effects as if you have taken 20 grams of leaf.
The point is that your receptors are being flodded with pure alkaloids, and the alkaloids are both addictive and will raise your tollerence unnaturally compraed to the alkaloid spectrum in plain leaf.
So 3 grams of UEI will effect you in an alkaloid sense as if you have taken up to 60 grams of plain leaf. Obviously it wont feel like you have taken 60 grams but as far as your tollerence goes its being raised as if you had taken that amount due to its unnatural alkaloid content.
You dont mention what your usual dose was.
Did you take 3 grams of UEI a day, every day? If so im suprised that after a year you got away with little problems.
You said you tapered using bali, but what that from daily UEI or did you use UEI every now and again?
There is not set time for addiction, no set time for WD's to be bad ass.
I used initially for a year and i quit and felt little or nothing, that included using extracts most weekends.
The second time i quit was maybe 6 months later, after a similiar routine. 10-15 grams a day. occasional extracts. No taper.....i felt like killing myself at times.
The next 2 WD's were the same.
Then i learnt to taper and avoided extracts, big difference. I could manage everything.
These days i take kratom to avoid WD'S and to feel somewhat normal but if i had to i could slow taper and skip most of the bad effects. But i crave kratom every day. Thankfully 5 - 10 grams does me now and im not pushing it to 50+ grams like i used to. But that is because no matter how high i go the euphoria is gone, probably for good. I am still getting effects to make use worth while, espicially after quitting SSRI medication after 14 or so years.
I would recomend either keeping it for the weekend (if its only recreational) avoiding extracts and espicially enhanced products, unless you can keep it too the weekends and enjoying it for as long as possible, because Kratom like may other drugs does not offer the initial pros for ever if you abuse it or push it to the limits.
Thanks for the responses! I was using 6 grams of Bali daily
It wasn't doing anything so I decided daily use was counter productive. I tapered over two weeks to about 2 grams daily and then I jumped off. Now I would like to use about once a week, and be able to feel it. UEI is expensive as you all know...that's why I was wondering if Tramadol might be a viable alternative for my once. A week chip. I love UEI, but I'm sad to say my latest time using 2.5 grams was underwhelming. I hoe I have not destroyed the fun of Kratom all together, but if so so be it, and shame on me for being greedy. BUT...maybe being clean all week except for weekends will do the trick. I certainly hope so!!!
In my experiences, tramadol doesn't even feel like a traditional opiate. UEI, or any kratom for that matter, is as close as you're going to get. Tramadol makes you feel... weird.
And not a good weird. Kinda spacey. I know they say it's an opiate, but to me, it feels nothing like one. That's my experience, at least. As they say, 'your mileage may vary'.
postimmortal added 7 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...
Originally Posted by spicybrainsgirl
I hoe I have not destroyed the fun of Kratom all together, but if so so be it, and shame on me for being greedy. BUT...maybe being clean all week except for weekends will do the trick. I certainly hope so!!!
I can confirm in my experiences, that a break does bring back the good effects of kratom. With a 1 day to 1 1/2 day break, I noticed a significant increase in effects.
Last edited by postimmortal; 11-09-2011 at 05:56.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Ianzombie, thanks for the breakdown as far as alkaloidal content. That makes a heck of a lot of sense..."Hmm, I wonder why my 6 grams of Bali is no longer working...perhaps due to the 3 GRAMS OF UEI!" Seems funny but I was not smart enough to think of it in that way. So thanks. I was doing 6 grams of Bali daily for maintenance and if I wanted to get "high" (once a week) I would take UEI. I have taken extracts too, one 15 was pretty good but the UEI is always better (why is that?)
I'm glad to hear a break *may* work to increase the fun. I don't medically know how the euphoria could have gone away entirely for you Ianzombie...6 weeks seems like a nice amount of time to take a break for. Seems like the nature of the drug and the brain should react to give you some positive effects after six weeks...but I'm no neuroscientist!
I guess I screwed myself out of the fun of plain leaf...I remember after being abstinent for a while and doing about 6 grams of Bail...I was about to go Christmas shopping in Ikea and I had to nod out in the car for half an hour before I could go in! And that was PLAIN leaf! Ahh, the good old days....
Last edited by spicybrainsgirl; 11-09-2011 at 20:32.
Reason: more to sayyyy
Here's an update everyone. Yes, Tramadol sucks compared to UEI. Almost no opiate effect. Sneaky will not be using Tramadol to party every once in a while as he wants to use the UEI. UEI is expensive for a reason, and Tramadol is cheap for a reason. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Something AFOAF has been wondering about for a while is how effective is kratom? She has never used it but has a growing tollerance to dihydrocodiene (320-350mg per day) and was wondering if kratom gives a similar euphoria and nodding to dhc or comperable opiate?
my buddy finds that his daily dose of tramadol, 200-250mg for the last six months made him feel ideal for his needs. I am not sure why, but he said that his first day of just taking maeng da and nothing else did not really even close to meet his needs. And that was at 6 caps of 600 mgs. a piece.