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Some guy is frustrrated. HE does about ten (10) 30mg oxycodone daily. For the last several months. SOmetinmes eats and sometimes sniffs. HE gets off sniffing. HE decided to try the real thing - heroin and sniffes it - NOTHING. He then tried injecting - a little dizzy but NOTHING, IT is real cause everyone else is getting off. HE got so frustrated, he got his pain scrip for Oxy changed to Dilaudid for a month to try,. Ate one 8mg Dilaudid- NOTHING. So he crushed and heated in spoon and used cotton to pic up and injected 8mg. THere was blood so he hit vein. Once again - NOTHING!!!. THe pills are scrip so they are real. THe heroin may just suck but he trusts the guy he got it from and everyone else is having fun. HE even plugged a 30mg ROXY - NOTHING!!!.
WHAT IS GOING ON? Are the ten (10) Oxy every day stopping everything else from working. He has plenty of everything and wants to now what to do for FRiday night. Snorting Roxy is the best so far.
He wants that warm initial high. SHould he plug the Dilaudid? Should he raise the dose of dilaudid ? DO dilaudid and heroin together? What is going on - he is 230 pound dude.
Also - do you have to CWE Dilaudid before plugging? or can you just mix with water and go?
I am not an IV drug user, so I can only speak from my experience, but let me say one thing right off the bat:
Some guy SHOULD NOT mix heroin and dilaudid. There is no way of knowing the purity/potency of the heroin and mixing them ups his chances of ODing by a lot, especially if he shoots them. One should always exercise caution when combining any opiates/CNS depressants (or taking them alone, for that matter), but at least the prescription medications are "real" and easily measurable.
Honestly, if Some Guy does roughly 300mg of oxycodone a day, I'm not surprised he didn't get much from the dilaudid. I'm not even surprised he didn't get much from the H, depending on the potency. I don't have to tell Some Guy that is a pretty massive opiate habit. No judgement, it's just a fact.
In my opinion, eating and sniffing Dilaudid are both wastes. I believe you really need to plug, or IV. If he is determined to make the dilaudid work, Some Guy will probably need to up his dose, but I can't tell you how much. Nothing works better than IVing dilaudid (I have only had this in the emergency room) but I would urge Some Guy to plug instead. I have found plugging dilaudid to be fairly effective, though I don't have nearly the tolerance Some Guy would have at his current habit. Again, if he is determined, I would plug 8mg, see what happens, and change based on that experience. Even with a huge tolerance, I would advise against slamming more than 8mg at once. That is his call, but I really don't recommend it.
Before plugging, no CWE extraction is needed on Dilaudid.
I do have some questions for Some Guy, though. If he is happy with the oxycodone and it works the best, why is he so determined to make the dilaudid happen? Again, no judgement, but he should consider the fact he is already doing quite a bit of oxycodone a day (understatement) to be adding Dilaudid and H to the mix. Does he only snort or 30mg of oxycodone at once, or does he do multiple pills at a time? You didn't say, just said he does ten a day. And, is he really getting NOTHING from plugging oxycodone? I find that a bit hard to believe if it's the same dose as sniffing, since plugging should work fairly well. But if you say so then I do. "Nothing" is not the same as "not enough," though. Just some things to think about...
Your tolerance is probably high, and your chasing that first high...but you probably won't get it again because your already an addict.
Dilaudid pills are NOTHING compared to IV Dilaudid. Swim thinks 80 mg Oxy's are definately better than 8mg Dilaudid (pill form). Swim has crushed the Dilaudid pills before and shot them, but they didn't do anything for Swim either. Then Swim got the IV form of Dilaudid, and couldn't believe how much better that was. Almost identical to pure heroin. So Swim started to mix the IV Dilaudid with heroin and IV Benadryl and shoot it, as Swim was chasing that first high. Swim loved this and this quickly lead Swim to have a bad problem. Swim is NO WAY suggesting this is safe, because it is NOT SAFE. Swim knew her tolerance to the IV Dilaudid and to the heroin, and took the chance, over and over again, which was not smart. So basically, unless you can get your hands on the IV form of Dilaudid (which is near impossible unless you have access to a hospital or knows someone else who does), the pills are no where near as good. Stick with the Oxy's if you can't get the IV form Dilaudid. And Swim doesn't have any experience with plugging them, Swim always like injection and found that the best ROA.
Swim's suggestion is to take a break from the opiates for a little while. Then when you tolerance will go down a bit so you can get a little high again when you start back up. But trust Swim, this path leads to no where good. At the time Swim thought she was living in all her glory with her access to IV Dilaudid, a good payin job, and a steady H source; until the reality of her addiction set in. It just takes you down a dark path that is never worth it in the first place. Swim's best suggestion is to accept you won't ever get that first high again and put the drugs down, knowing they will only lead you to rehabs, jail, and/or death.
ok listen up my freind...first up you obviously know you;ve got one hell of a tolerance..kinda like me now-but I've given up on chasing that particular "dragon"..just use boring old methadone 200mg daily.-ANYWAY back to you-you are going to have to dare I say it EDUCATE yourself a little here-take it from a Lab tech with a special interest in the subject-when you get to this level of tolerance things tricky-let me tell you-at this point all your receptors are mostly saturated (daily dosing has a cumulative effect) so that when you inject it wont make any difference, ok? this is going to sound horrible but if want that hit you have to stay clean for at least 24 hours BETWEEN hits, ie every second day or more-its all about those damn receptors and the clearanve rate of the drug-determined by your own unique physiology-no doubt your enzyme p450 etc in your liver is skyrocket high-this will help clear out the drug but also lessen the length of the run, unfortunately. ok, the other thing you REALLY need to know is the chemistry of what your shootin. now, as you know,the manufacturers of the oral pills engineer the pills so that they arent compatible with IV-they do this in several cunning ways-some incorporate the active ingredient in a polymer that unfortunately only slowly releases the goods. another is the type of salt form they use-example- salts such as the HYDROCHLORIDE, SULPHATE, are quicker acting than say TARTRATE, NAPSYLATE, that kind of thing. So what I'm sugesting is that you do yourself a huge favour (especially for your veins!) and do a chemical extraction to get out your acive compound minus the microcrystaline silia and talc and god knows what else that wrecks your body- you will end up with a superior product! Use the net to fine tune your method of extraction-but the basic method is this-crush pills, dissolve in minimum or thereabouts amount of ditilled water, add base (have to be careful here-the pH level has to be spot on-different for different drugs because of phenoxy groups become phenooxide and hence more water soluble-look it up) then add organic solvent (eg ether, methylene chloride, toluene (yuck) and shake it up to transfer free base goods into organic solvent, let it stand, seperate out, draw off the top organic layer and to this you add the correct (stoichiometric) amount of acid (eg Hydrochloric or sulphuric) to salt out your beautiful substance, collect, dry, wash crystall with acetone (carefully!) and there yo0u have a good, clean, healthy substance-that you can weigh, know, and most importantly ENJOY with stuffing you up! knowledge is power my freind-hit those books!
Psycronizer - very interesting read. Knowledge is power. To the common person reading this though, they wouldn't have a clue what you are talking about on how to extract. Even researching it wouldn't really be sufficient enough, I think you need someone to physically show you how to do it also, plus the knowledge (and some chemistry classes) and probably be in a feild where you learn this. I know a bit about chemistry and pharmocology, but I don't think I could figure out how to to it properly without screwing it up the first few times, unfortunately. But I am back in school, so hopefully I can expand my knowledge on this. And your right about the receptors in the brain, this is my feild, and alot of common people do not understand or comprehend the extense effect cumilative opiate use has on the body's organs. I enjoyed your post.
First and foremost, I strongly urge you not to attempt to find levels to get an euphoric feeling. If you are using these pills for medical reasons, getting high usually indicates that you should slightly decrease the dosage.
If you have been abusing these medications for the euphoria, you may have hit a wall and the only way to return your body to a condition that results in a "high" feeling is to quit using for a couple of months and clear your body of narcotics. That includes everything(methadone, suboxone).My condition is such that I never feel different no matter what the medicine. My physician added Ritalin to my daily schedule in an attempt to reduce the tolerance and help my depression. The first time I took the Ritalin, I was zooming around as if I had just finished an 8-ball. The next day, I had no mood altering effects from it. My tolerance even creates a problem for doctors using anesthesia on me. I need a lot due to my tolerance which makes the risk of any procedures during which anesthesia is used quite problematic
I'm still pretty young and the only option left after my current regimen is to include fentanyl, but I have to put it off as long as possible(until my regular pain levels average 8-9/10. Right now, my pain is about a six on the 10 point scale when I'm at my best.
If you are just taking stuff for fun, PLEASE think about getting some help and quitting for good. Your life will turn out much better in that scenario.
Sorry if this is an inappropriate post for this website and apologies to anyone offended by my suggestion that it may not be a good idea to abuse these pharmaceuticals.
There is one very important point I forgot to add in my above post. If you are a user of these powerful narcotics and lower your tolerance by quitting the use of them for a few weeks or more, it is very important that you pay attention to the statement that follows. If you decide on resuming your use(which would be silly to do since you can stop the cycle of abuse at this point), you CANNOT resume using the same amount you had been before quitting. IT WILL KILL YOU BECAUSE YOUR BODY WILL NO LONGER HAVE THE ABILITY TO HANDLE IT DUE TO THE REDUCED TOLERANCE. This may be the biggest cause of the huge surge in oxycontin overdoses that has been occurring in the last several years.
For those who are using these narcotics for recreation, my best advice is to stop.
Hey Guys - I forgot about this post and was googing infi and wallah - my post came up with your answers. As to all the concern - thanks - I know, I know - addict yada - yada been in the AA/NA thing for years etc.. I know the deal. Having said that, 300mg/day Oxy is not a HUGE habit in my area - you can guess where I am sure. I appreciate all the answers - interesting especially the lab one - though I agree with the lady's post - no way i understand it nor will i try it. I keep picturing Mickey Rourke int he last scene of SPIN. I guess i never realized that one opiate ruins ALL opiates. methinks - I need to do the 24 hour thing and clean house. As you can imagine, I have a hard time passing 6 - thought i can be fine for 12 if i do my full dose the day before. The reason for the switch is the sudden disappearance of oxy availablilty in the FL market. I can get dilaudid easily or even order morpine sulphate - gotta love the crooked docs. They subsitute 8mg dilaudid for 30mg oxy. I did find interesting things mixing together etcc as follows:
1). Dialuadid does not give shit for a buzz
2). Dilaudid lasts MUCH longer than Oxy- one 8mg dilaudid kept me from entering withdrawals for 8 hours - I would need 2 oxys to do the same (two 30mg) - and yes, I was taking 2 ata aitme - I need 2 to get out of bed.
3). IV just sucks - its scary and i seem to need something to look down on so i dont feel like the bottom rung on the ladder. its also too uncontrollable.
4). Heroin just makes me sick but also lasts MUCH longer than oxy. i dont get high but i stay normal for 8 hours like ont he dilaudid before entering withdrawals.
5). Jury still out on plugging. ITs so funny bending over- i just crack myslef up. Got such a tolerance that it didnt give me a buzz. it did make me normal quickly.
I am faced with what looks like a seriuosly diminished access to Oxys and increased access to dialudid. having ssaid that.
1) Best way to do Dilaudid (not IV)? Snorting is Ok - not great.
2). IS there a benefit to asking for Morphine Sulfate?
Will I really help lower my tolerance by going cold turkey for only 24 hours?? I got all the stuff ready - the muscle relaxer (flexoril) for nerves, the anti anxiety in xanax etc.. scared to death of detox so i put $10K into account for rapid detox procedure (they knock me out and do it) that i see on horizon.
psychronizer, just to let you know, you do have your process for extracting a chemical using an acid/base reaction correctly; however, this is only used when the substance you are trying to remove is mixed with soluble fillers. When dealing with a tablet, the only soluble filler is usually lactose and that is harmless. If he did for some reason want to isolate the oxycodone all he would have to do is add the minimum amount of water to dissolve the contents (for ease of evaporation) and filter the solution. After that he can just let it dry and the cyrstals/powder of oxycodone will appear when the water evaporates.
Your above process however is great when you have a street product, this is so because it's usually heavily diluted with soluble cuts, which we don't want. That's when you have to worry about basing the product out at the specific pH and complete the steps.
But again, with tablets it's heavily diluated with non-soluble cuts, so we have no worries. He doesn't actually need to remove the non-active ingredients, he just needs to get his tolerance down.
So, OP don't worry about the chemistry, you just need to make a decision based on your tolerance and medication. As above posters have brought up it really may be worth looking at taking suboxone for a while to help get your tolerance down. If that doesn't work maybe your doctor can work out something, maybe getting you on a lower dose of a long-acting medicine to try and work it down, but if your pain gets bad maybe add a short-acting medication like Dilaudid that you can use only if necessary; this way you won't have a high dose of medication in your system all day long. Also, you won't have to drop your dose as low as most people. You are a big guy and we have to take this into account--your doses will definitely be higher than the average person, especially if you have a fast metabolism. In my opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion), you may want to look into a long acting medication, have you ever considered this or talked about it with your doctor? Anyway man, think on it and let us know, and if you ever have any questions, we are all here to help--don't forget that!
well done, great post! I couldn't agree more. Anyone using narcotics recreational needs to STOP! it's an incredibly selfish pastime because it makes the lives of genuine users who require the stuff for medical reasons incredibly difficult! Because so many people selfishly abuse narcotics, the governments crack down on who can be prescribed the stuff and how much they can get in one prescription. This ultimately leads to more doctors visits and increasing pharmacy bills! All to get a medication they need to have any sort of quality of life, to do the bare basics like shower and dress! So before anyone abuses narcotics, they need to stop and realise how incredibly selfish they are and how their one night of fun can potentially cause havoc for some poor genuine person in need!
wormwoodbush added 7 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...
I forgot to add, I am one of those genuine persons in need. I now have to go without tablet morphine as it is too closely watched due to the amount of selfish people who recreational abuse it! I cannot take hydromorphone or oxycodone due to allergies! I do not recreational abuse any substances (unless cigarettes count?) and I believe people who do are selfish and ignorant with no thought or regard for the effect their actions may have on innocent others!
Last edited by wormwoodbush; 26-02-2012 at 20:47.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
oh dear mr Wormwoodbush....are u seriously going to tell me that junkies are selfish? really? gosh what a shock! they only think bout themselves? really? wow! well maybe some are like that, but it pretty much goes with the territory u know? full on body selling stealing junkies ARE selfish, but not ur average space cadet who holds down a job at joes burgers or whatever. Just a little bit on what i said earlier about purification: this monkey i used to know, he used to get hundreds of Doloxene (Darvon to u yanks) which is Dextropropoxyphene Napsylate-now, the Napsylate salt meant quite a slow absobtion rate, and this monkey used to gobble 3 at a time, until after a few years(yes he had a damn good run off them) they started to loose their kick-so, said monkey used his lab skills(and even the lab at work!) toull apart the capsules, dissolve the powder into water with a little sodium hydroxide in it, enough so pH was around 11 or 12, then, he'd add some diethyl ether, and stopper the flask,shake the hell out of it for a minute,let the two layers seperate, with the ether layer floating on top, he would carefully pour off this top layer (which now held freebase dextropropoxyphene in it) into another clean dry flask, and allow the ether to boil off on the steam bath. near the end , monkey could see a clear oily substance in the bottom of the flask, quickly take off the steam bath, sniff it, to make sure all ether is finally driven off, now,add say 50ml or so of water and 1 or 2 very small drops of hydrochloric acid,swirl,swirl some more, make sure the girls in the lab arent watching, and knock it back! tasted like utter crap(imagine the worst lemon drink u ever had) and wait.....come morning tea time, this monkey was feeling like a god, and was very happy to dicuss any utter dribble that all the other geeks were talking about, and , my freinds, is the tale of the cheeky monkey who did drugs at work, in work time, and never got caught, time after time. oh and now the monkeys does 200mg of methadone a day and looks back on those days with fond memories, and wonders if he would ever have the balls to that kind of thing again,now he's older,wiser, no, he probly wouldnt.
EVERY SINGLE recreational user/abuser of opioids and other prescription drugs is SELFISH. I explained the reasons very clearly in my last post. ANY abuse of prescription drugs is selfish as it causes the government to need to more closely watch the prescribing of said drug - therefore making it harder for legitimate people to get prescriptions for the drugs they need.
Its not just the body selling stereotypical crack house "junkie" that I am talking about - it is EVERY SINGLE person who uses a prescription drug (but in particular opioids and Benzo's) without prescription, or abuses the prescription they were given either by misusing the drug or by selling it on the 'street'.
As i also said, I have to now go without a medication that would make my life much easier, because if my pain specialist prescribes it, I will be (as he put it) 'put under the spotlight by the government and its not worth the risk or hassle'. All caused by illegal use of the particular drug.
So yes even your blue/white collar worker who contributes to society by paying taxes is a selfish pig if they abuse prescription drugs. Go shoot up heroin, then you're not affecting legitimate users of opioids lives by your stupid selfish choices and one can only hope that it ends your life.
(the words 'you're' and 'your' are NOT aimed at anyone in this forum, they are being used generically)