Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 3 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
As some of you are aware, I used to be a relatively frequent recreational Codeine user. After leaving it (and any other Opiates) alone for the best part of a year, I took 300mg the other day and - as a few of you know - I had a horrible reaction. I did have some VERY slight euphoria and sedation, but mainly intense itching and mild sickness (no vomiting, though). Constricted pupils.
Two days later I took 150mg, thinking that I overdid it after a long period of absolutely no opiate use (in actual fact i DID overdo it, please don't be as irresponsible as I) and I felt nothing. Well, the mildest of mild sedation and a slight itch. Constricted pupils.
Now... today I took 390mg (48 hours after taking 150mg) and the experience was somewhere between the first two. The itching was probably worse than ever, but lasted nowhere near as long. The sedation was very mild but enough to definitively say it was there.
I understand the latter two experiences being milder due to Codeine's ability to build tolerance rapidly. BUT.... why did that initial 300mg experience yield no euphoria, hardly any sedation, none of the positive side effects? I'd never reached a point before where Codeine became totally unpleasant. And I hadn't actually EVER used Codeine more than once a month for longer than about 2 months. And I reckon I've not taken Codeine more than about 15 times (recreationally) in my entire life. Also, in my period of opiate abstinence, it was total abstinence, not touched an opiate even for therapeutic purposes.
Is there any explanation for this? I don't have the option to "try stronger Opiates" as I've been told on other forums. I refuse injection due to personal principles (needles are for necessary medical procedures IMO), and rectal administration, although my next choice, isn't currently possible as.... without going into too much detail... I have no "apparatus" for getting my precious Codeine water inside my rectum tonight.
I have no Diphenhydramine (although believe me I wish I did with that damn itch!) to help it out, and no access to other drugs, or grapefruit juice (although I find its efficacy questionable, though that opinion isn't based on any kind of science, just personal experience).... any tips? Anyone got any explanations? Could there be such a thing as permanent tolerance?
I'm aware of DXM and Ibogaine having potential tolerance-blasting properties, but I no longer can take DXM (weird-ass anti-tolerance, I look at a cough medicine bottle and feel physically sick), and, well, Ibogaine, obviously I can't get it for love nor money. Plus it seems dangerous to me.
PS: Hello again to a few old friends in the Codeine sub-forum! *waves*
I started off taking 2 Percodan per day after my first knee surgery in 1985. I was struck by a speeding car while walking, or staggering, to another party in October 1977. Surgeries were required to place metal rods, pins, screws, tie-rod things, ball joints and whatever. I was only 17 at the time of the accident. That was good in an ironic way because I was still young and growing. I healed rather quickly and went back to work. ALL surgeons & physicians advised me that I would have problems in the future with my two broken up legs, shattered pelvis, busted lower back disc and cracked skull. It went in one ear and straight through out the other. I was 17, so...??? By 1985 at work, I just made it through the whole day due to the pain in my knee. Surgery was required immediately according to some hack job Orthopaedic Surgeon in my hick town. That's when the narcotic analgesic nightmare began. It's 2012 now and that nightmare is controlled and in much much better condition, but it's still there. 2 Percodan made me feel like I had won the lottery to say the least, The euphoria I received from just 2 Percodan, 10mg in total of oxycodone per day was enough for 5 years. If I had just 2 Percodan, which changed to Percocet once I started taking 5 to 10 a day...NOT for the pain, for the FANTASTIC buzz I got. I just used the "pain" as an excuse to get more Percocet. I went to college in 1989 out of town in a smaller hick town. There, I found a doctor who had absolutely no qualms about prescribing me 5 Percocet per day. It seemed to make me want to study like crazy. I ended up with a 3.83 grade point average. The Percs never made me more intelligent, just made me WANT TO study like crazy. After going to this doctor early every single pick-up, with any and every excuse you could think of, and after about 4 years of lying to him, him believing it (or not really caring), he'd call the pharmacy and tell them to allow me to pick up my prescription early. Until the one day when he seemed to snap (OF COURSE) and cut me off cold turkey and told me to get some help. I was in a mess. I was FUKTUP HUGE. Then the OxyContin came out in the mid 90's. These were like a gift from God, but they were a gift from Lucifer in retrospect. I started taking those after numerous more surgeries. I never required near that much, but it was the buzz I was seeking, not the control of pain. Pain don't bother me that much, at least physical pain doesn't. I used opioids/opiates to achieve that INCREDIBLE sense of well being and euphoria...I can finally admit it now. Now that I CANNOT get that euphoric feeling from anything at all. It don't matter how much I take, I CANNOT even get a slight euphoric feeling from opioids/opiates anymore. I was prescribed 3 80mg + 3 20mg OxyContin pills per day after both my knees were totally replaced. They started to not even kill the pain anymore, let alone ANY euphoria at all, so I asked to go on Fentanyl Patches. I now take 100microgram Fentanyl patches every day with 3 40mg OxyNeo pills for breakthrough pain. I ONLY take it now for the actual pain I endure every second of every waking moment of every day PLUS so I won't feel sick as possible. I am completely addicted and totally depended on these narcotic analgesics. It starts out like God's gift, then turn's into a very very long tour of Hell. You can say"Ya right, maybe for you, but not for ME. I know how to handle it properly...", or something pretty close to that. Go ahead and find out for yourself if you think I'm just a person working for Substance Abuse Counsellors or whatever. I did the same thing but ended up learning the hard way. Actually the HARDEST way...I did about 7 years in jail because of abusing narcotic analgesics, am 52 on a disability pension, single and still addicted to Fentanyl and oxycodone, living in the basement dungeon at my parent's home and just waiting to die. That is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Look, take my/our advise and QUIT, or find out the hard way. You just might not survive "chasing that dragon". Why do you think they call it "CHASING THE DRAGON"? What do you think that you're SUPER DUPER HUMAN if you even think you can control that shit. It's MUCH stronger than ANY person with a tendency to enjoy narcotic analgesic buzz. It'll buzz you straight to a living hell and you'll wish and prey you are dead. Listen to John Lennon's song "Cold Turkey". That song scrapes the surface of reality with drugs. Smoke marijuana if you want to get a buzz. Pot never turned nice folk into CREEPS and SCUMBAGS. Good luck to you if you THINK I'm wrong. I am NOT wrong. Try it for yourself and YOU WILL SEE...if you live through it.
treblejunkie added 16 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...
Buddy, the WHOLE bag of shit ends up a QUAGMIRE the worst you'll ever see. I started on just 2 Percodan a day. Read my BOOK I posted under the handle "treblejunkie". I'm only being truthful and maybe I just might save ANYONE the Hell of Narcotic Analgesic buzz seeking. It WILL turn into HELL, it is only a matter of time. It sounds like you found out the "drill" dealing with that shit. I smoke high test indoor pot now. It's super high in THC and definitely does the trick. NO WITHDRAWALS associate with pot though. Maybe a bit of psychological withdrawals, but no jet puking out of every orifice in your body, no freezing cold but lying in a soaking wet bed from cold sweats and no PREYING to anyone to walk in to yopur pad and blow your head clean off your shoulders. That's exactly how I felt when UBER DOPE SICK. Glad to sorta get to know you. I sincerely hope, for you & your kin, that you seem to have got a grip on the sordid bullshit. Take care and have a great summer.
Last edited by treblejunkie; 01-07-2012 at 17:01.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I always go a week to reduce opiate tolerance, and by the third day of using its back to where it used to be. Every use of opiates flood the brain's endorphin receptors which causes it to stem more connections(which is how tolerance builds up) and halt the natural production of endorphins (which is how addiction is made). When you first go off of opiates, those new connections you made are asking for stimulation and combining with lower amounts of endorphins causes your withdrawal symptoms. With some time off of it I think like 3-10 days or something like that, the new brain connections go dormant (they don't die) and endorphin levels return to normal. When stimulated again it may take a few times before reactivating those connections but not nearly as slow as when you originally built up your tolerance and like i read on an earlier post, it will build up quicker the more you do it. Fascinating how it all works even though tolerance is a bitch, Opiates are not cheap.
If done in a non-addict way, Dextromethorphan, abbreviated DMX will reduce opiate tolerance if done so in a responsible, well researched way. Poke around the search engine and if you have questions, ask how to do it so someone doesn't hurt themselves, or have another monkey on their back.
A friend found that micro dosing Iboga root bark actually enhanced the euphoria from H.
This is highly dangerous territory as Ibogaine potentiates opiates. The alkaloid content of Iboga root bark varies from plant to plant, therefore is not reliable. Microdosing could easily lead to overdosing over time, as tolerance will build to the Iboga root as well. Combining Iboga and opiates has led to death in several documented cases.
I would not advise this at all. If one were to proceed, do so with extreme caution and at your own risk. Iboga is a sacred entheogen for healing, not kicks.
Micro dosing with Iboga with the intent to decrease and/or ultimately cease opiate use is another matter altogether- there are protocols that have been published. I would not advise attempting this without guidance from an experienced Iboga provider.
Was looking for some information or best practices for lowering opiate tolerance. Have a friend in pain-management who is looking to lower his tolerance. His doctor and the jack-booted thugs at the DEA have limited his treatment options. He is prescribed 48 mgs of Exalgo (time-release Dilaudid, near impossible to break time-release besides peeling off the 2 coats of time-release materials) and 40 mgs of percocet daily. His doctor and the DEA insist on a time-release as his mainstay and his doctor's treatment goal for him is to get him to a place where he no longer has to take the percs for breakthrough...yeah, right....
We knows that the bio-availabilty of oral dilaudid is very low and he often supplements his regiment w IR dilaudid IV but this is costly. His doctor is very reluctant to increase the IR portion of his regiment (thanks to our friends at the DEA) and so he is currently getting very little pain relief from the current regiment and after 3 months he finds at most he's only managing to stay "not sick" instead of getting pain release. He's looking for ways to lower his tolerance so he can get some benefit from his prescriptions.
Suboxene is available and helps w the "not sick" part but leaves him in crippling pain and is costly. He's wondering about Methadone. We know that it's used as a pain medication but he's wondering how many 10 mg tablets he'll need to counter the sickness and get a modicum of pain relief so he's at least able to get out of bed. Money is an issue and he's heard the same horror stories about methadone withdrawal we all have. Can someone give him ball park numbers about how many milligrams he'll need daily and how many days he'll need to take it lower his tolerance?
Really appreciate any info we can get. Hope the new year brings good things for all.
Quick Tip: a few says ago i got tired of taking my dose of 6 norcos and later that night i even felt nauseus so i grabbed a ginger root pill. As i got my pill i noticed my other pills whivh were milk thistle, selenium, apple cider vinegar mixed with cayenne pepper and some other stuff, and lastly alpha lipoic acid. I just took all of them thinking, it wouldnt hurt to help cleanse my body. I took one of each of the pills! Glad i took the ginger cause all those pills at once really gave my stomache some work! The next day i took one less pill then my normal dose and to my surprise i got super high! It felt like i hadnt taken any pain killers in 3 days!! Has anyone expereinced anything like this???