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Hello! This is my first post here. I'm happy to be a part of this community now! Anyway, I know that this plant is toxic. I also know that Indians used to use them for spritual purposes. I'm thinking about eating just half a bean, the inside part. What will happen? A whole bean would kill me right? Pleass don't just say "it will kill you dont't even try half" because if Indians tried it and lived, my walrus can too.
Thanks in advance
Last edited by Benga; 07-06-2010 at 08:00.
Reason: SI
The following is taken from: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/golden_guide/g91-100.shtml
Quote:
MESCAL BEAN (Saphora secundiflora), also called red bean or coralillo, is a shrub or small tree with silvery pods containing up to six or seven red beans or seeds. Before the peyote religion spread north of the Rio Grande, at least 12 tribes of Indians in northern Mexico, New Mexico, and Texas practiced the vision-seeking Red Bean Dance centered around the ingestion of a drink prepared from these seeds. Known also as the Wichita, Deer, or Whistle Dance, the ceremony utilized the beans as an oracular, divinatory, and hollucinogenic medium.
Because the red bean drink was highly toxic, often resulting in death from overdoses, the arrival of a more spectacular and safer hallucinogen in the form of the peyote cactus (see p. 11 4) led the natives to abandon the Red Bean Dance. Sacred elements do not often disappear completely from a culture; today the seeds are used as an adornment on the uniform of the leader of the peyote ceremony.
An early Spanish explorer mentioned mescal beans as an article of trade in Texas in 1539. Mescal beans have been found at sites dating before A.D. 1000, with one site dating bock to 1500 B.C. Archaeological evidence thus points to the existence of a prehistoric cult or ceremony that used the red beans.
The alkaloid cytisine is present in the beans. It causes nausea, convulsions, and death from asphyxiation through its depressive action on the diaphragm.
The mescal bean is a member of the bean family, Leguminosae. Sophora comprises about 50 species that are native to tropical and warm parts of both hemispheres. One species, S. japonica, is medicinally important as a good source of rutin, used in modern medicine for treating capillary fragility.
It's my opinion that experimenting with Sophora secundiflora is akin to experimenting with the nightshades. This is a poison with psychoactive properties. Use extreme caution.
Also, to be clear: Mescaline (and their respective cacti), Mezcal, and Mescal Beans all refer to different things.
I have already seen the other posts, and I realise that they are not the same things. What are the effects? Erowid is not very clear. Is half a bean enough? I am a careful man
killnon2 added 13 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...
Sorry for the double post, but I would like someone to tell me how to ingest it and has anyone had any experiences with it? I've already read Erowid
Last edited by killnon2; 06-06-2010 at 22:25.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Since you've already seen the other posts I linked to, you must already be aware of the following:
1. Use of Sophora secundiflora by native Americans as a drug is highly disputed.
2. The known active chemical in Sophora secundiflora is cytisine which is a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor agonist and has effects similar to nicotine.
In fact, the excerpt I posted above says "The alkaloid cytisine is present in the beans. It causes nausea, convulsions, and death from asphyxiation through its depressive action on the diaphragm." Sounds just like an acetylcholine receptor agonist.
EDIT: Due to the fact that the historical use of Sophora secundiflora as a drug is debatable, there is no dosage information as far as I know. If someone were to attempt an experiment with this drug, I would highly recommend caution. Start with a very low dose and slowly work one's way up. Alkaloidal content could vary dramatically from one bean to the next. Cholinergic drugs are poisons. This is the same class of pharmacological agents as the deadly nightshades.
Does anybody else have any new information to add on this plant?
I'm wondering if there is a name for the drink that the indians would make with the beans? There has to be a relatively safe way to consume these beans or else the indians wouldn't have done it for as long as they did.
Maybe boiling it extracts the actives and leaves the cytisine in the beans?
Let me make it clear that I will not attempt any experiments with these beans until further information is uncovered. It is nonetheless extremely intresting.
This is the same class of pharmacological agents as the deadly nightshades.
Nightshades contain muscarinic acetylcholine receptor antagonists. Cytisine is a nicotinic actelycholine receptor agonist. So it is kind of opposite of nightshade alkaloids (but not quite). It is more similar to muscarine.
Some kind of nicotinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist could likely act as an antidote to cytisine, but they are harder to obtain and are generally dangerous.
I think this is silly
OP says what are the effects, then asks how to injest it and if anyone has experience
I dont think its self incrimination, just self destruction, as its not a crime, afaik. Datura, henbane, hemlock, etc are all POISONS, used by experienced shamans.
I do not know the facts about what I am going to say, totally, so some is conjecture
Witches on broomsticks: this image comes from the curanderas(SP) who used to put datura, hemlock, uh...a couple other plants, and take the oils, rub themon a broom stick, and proceed to insert this into their vagina to absorb. But we dont know HOW MUCH, or if some other inactive plant was used to counteract certain unwanted side effects
But they would be dazed for daze, just FLYING, (look up flying ointment)
So there may be an admixture they took, or even something that was a regular part of their diet, that counteracted the bad shit
Study long and hard before you attempt such a thing. There are numerous things one can use to "get high" or "trip", but these are shamanic tools. Ever wonder why everyone in town didnt do it
No disrespect, jasim, for disagreeing with you about SI
Just wanted to let ya know that Jasim said that to him back in a time where people had to avoid Self Incrim not only in Drug Creation threads and posts but every thread and post that involved substances. This was eventually found to be pointless as most prosecuters aren't going to go searching forums for what substances someone took or takes.
As for this thread, really not sure about this substance. Sounds like it could possibly be effective but as happened to the North American Indians, overdose seems quite possible with such a close ED to LD.
Do not even try a mountain laurel seed. I ate just a little
Bit more than half a bean and almost died. I threw up and felt like shit for a few hours and also did not get high or hilusinate.
