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I have read alot about grapefruit juice potentiating opiates because it binds with the same enzyme as opiates, but what about kratom? I have read on some kratom groups and sites that grapefruit juice works well at potentiating kratom, and in fact I have just tried it out.
I kinda wanna say that I can already feel it hitting me a bit harder, but I think I will need more time to tell. I took a normal dose (1 1/2 tablespoons mixed in pudding) and within 40 minutes the effects were coming on strong. I feel more sedated than normal, but I'm not sure if the grapefruit juice made much difference. I will report back latter. Can anyone else share any experiences? Some people swear by this method.
Grapefruit juice inhibits cytochrome enzymes in the liver that help break
down complex drugs. This became popular with DXM and does indeed
make this sustance stronger. Looking at the compex ring structure of
mytraginine and friends, it is likely that cytochromes work on these.
Therefore, it may work.
To get it to work better, drink about 1/2 liter minimum of PURE grapefruit
(not concentrate) about 2 hours before eating Kratom. The latter kicks in
and out rapidly, and it takes at least 2 hours for the alkaloids in the
grapefruit to bind up the cytochromes.
Wow, thats quite a large amount. It would be nice if there was some sore of extract available, like a vitamin or something. Maybe one could evaporate the grapefruit juice and then drink a smaller amount. Thanks for the info, I did drink a much smaller amount, but the effects lasted longer. Not much more intense though.
it be the vitamin content or acids (i.e. would cranberry juice have the
same effect) or does it actually involve grapes? i wonder if just
grapes would produce the same interaction... just thinking to myself
The potentiation comes from chemicals called Flavonoids which inhibit some cytochrome oxidase liver enzymes.
You can now buy extracted flavonoids in many herb/supplement shops. Look for 'Citrus Bioflavonoids' and 'Querecetin'....
Check this out for more information on grapefruit juice and its effect on cytochrome enzyme inhibition. In short, furanocoumarins (bergapten) and flavonoids (quercetin, naringenin/naringin) are responsible for grapefruit's actions.
Grapefruit juice causes many things to be absorbed into the bloodstream much faster. I used to take Seldane by prescription for allergies. It was removed from the market after it was discovered that taking it with grapefruit juice caused the Seldane blood concentration to reach dangerous levels.
There is no information available regarding the metabolism of mitragynine, so it certainly may be possible that WGF juice potentiates kratom. It's cool to see anecdotal evidence suggesting it is so...I'll have to give this a try soon.
the point you bring up is exactly the issue with cytochromes in general--and unless someone does the research on mytragines and how they're metabolized, then we'll only have the anecdotal evidence to add or detract from the idea that grapefruit juice enhances the kratom.
remember, with SOME drugs, the grapefruit juice (if we're assuming it's an active cytochrome inhibitor in this instance) will actually enhance the excretion of the drug.
Some drugs are MORE activated by having a revved-up CYP system. These are usually drugs whose partially metabolized by-product is more potent or equally potent as the parent drug. (hence last year's fad in USA about 'prohormones' before they were quickly banished)
After using the forum search engine, scattered posts in threads may have mentioned this before, and a post in 2005 was the most recent on the sunject, but to make it easier for others to find... SWIM thought it deserved an easy to find thread of its own.
Well the question...
Will grapefruit juice (GFJ) potentiate the active alkaloids in Kratom?
(of which new information is now pointing toward 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynine as being responsible for the main opiate like effects of kratom.) Do we know what liver enzyme metabolizes it yet?
There´s been a lot of discussion about this on another forum, but the consensus seems to be that yes, it does.
A substance in grapefruit blocks the enzyme that breakes down the active parts of several medicines and drugs (ther´s a load of info on this, just ask Google) including, it would seem, Kratom.
In SWIM`s opinion it may not actually make the experience more powerful, but instead make it last for a lot longer.
Swim has been reading and sees that grapefruit juice is suppose to potentate the kratom like it does opiates and benzo's by inhibiting the enzyme... so swim has heard that this more extends the trip rather than increase which makes sense since it is just inhibiting the enzyme from breaking it down...
swim question is if this grapefruit does do this... doesnt this mean that swim would have to take more than normal because it is being extended/slowed...
or is swim wrong in thinking that this means that gfj is basically making it more of a "time released" thing like alot of pills...
heres swims thinking on kratom potentiation. for the most part, with leaves, its a product of how the body breaks the leaves down to how much alkaloids are in the system. stomach acid is one of the more important things in the breaking down of plant material into something that can be digested. inhibiting or reducing the acidity of the stomach would slow the uptake rate so the theory that alkalyzers may inhibit kratom seems to be false by swims logic.
GFJ inhibits GI enzymes, (not sure which but they are mentioned a million times on this forum) this likely does not lead to a blood plasma increase, just a slowing of excretiong, so dxm bunny seems dead on by saying GFJ would make 'tom more 'XR' like, which is exactly what SWIM has learned from recent trials.
but regardless, swim eats GF for breakfast all the time lately as it is availible now, and seems to notice that K'tom has been hitting him harder recently. he usually buys a batch one every few monthes, and last time he wasn't eating GF, but this really doesn't indicate anything, as he ordered his last batch in february, and ordered this one last week from a different vendor and is a different 'variety'. So he can't really answer the question fully, but on annecdotal evidence he says its more or less true that GFJ can potentiate ktom
Last edited by gmeziscool2354; 19-04-2009 at 23:23.
Reason: incomplete post
Sure, it contains grapefruit juice.
Personally I don't notice any difference usually with grapefruit juice, I know people who share by it though.
I've actually found that red/pink GFJ has a little effect sometimes, it seems to make kratom more separating but it could all b in my head or it might be affecting some other medications I use.
Some people do swear by white GFJ though, grapefruit will have the Sam affect.
I've read that the rind of the grapefruit contains more of the goodies than the juice apparently.
You hardly ever see Hunter Thompson without a bag of grapefruit, he knew how to make the most of his drugs.