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Lots of threads on various types of kratom, but none directly addressing this simple question. My pet turtle Clover is in a conundrum.
Clover first experimented with kratom a couple of years ago. He knew very little about kratom at the time and had no clue about various types. He tried a variety of kratom and found a whole, dried leaf that was quite enjoyable. Clover's favorite way of taking this kratom was simply to chew the dried leaves, but sometimes he would make a tea. Clover also experimented with toss and wash, extracts, powders. Clover said the effects were somewhat mild, but he enjoyed them. Fast Forward to now....
Clover recently decided to try kratom again only this time Clover was armed with much more knowledge. He did even more research and decided to order some bali powder as it seemed to be the most commonly used. Clover now knows that he does NOT like bali powder, or at least not this particular batch.
Clover is a tramadol addict and was going to use the kratom to assist with coming off of tramadol (something he does often in cycles to combat tolerance). This is NOT working out for Clover and he is very disappointed and upset.
Clover says this bali powder is way too stimulating for him (he doesn't mind a bit of stimulation, but he finds that the stimulation from this is too intense for him and is interfering with any enjoyment.
Clover also says that this bali powder does not taste good and causes stomach discomfort. Clover loved the taste of the kratom leaf he had before and though this taste is similar, it doesn't taste the same at all. Clover and his friend have both reported stomach discomfort after using this both in tea and toss and wash.
Clover wants a kratom that gives him a warm, fuzzy feeling. If it's slightly sedating, I think he would like that more than being stimulating. He does NOT want something that will shoot his tolerance up as he has problems enough with that.
What kind of kratom is most like an opiate? Clover thinks his bali powder is not at all opiate like.
Most kratom users would agree that Bali is the closest experience to an opiate.
Swim suspects that swiy had indo sold to him as Bali. In his experience, Indo tastes worse, is weaker and is not as relaxing as the Bali.
Many also have said that smaller amounts give more of a stimulating effect while larger amounts are more relaxing.
Swim has not noticed this... he just thinks the smaller amounts produce a more diluted effect.
Maybe that experience is a bit like alcohol, where the effects of a drink or two as opposed to too much isn't much of an accurate comparison.
Maybe try a different vendor for a small amount of Bali and see what happens?
Please bear in mind that while swim has lots of experience with Bali, Indo, UEI and some with a product he purchased as "High potency kratom isolate" (which he liked a lot), he is not a connoisseur who has tried all the various strains as have some posters in this forum.
Let’s just say that he doesn't understand everything he knows about kratom.
Maybe some more experienced members will speak up...
Last edited by Balzafire; 29-06-2010 at 19:20.
Reason: Swim always submits his post, THEN runs spellcheck. sigh
Well, what swij describes resembles plain thai red vain to swim, and many other critters too.
Assuming one talks about regular leaf, tiger would say bali has the most opiate like effects. Although has tried indo, thai and other shit from different vendors and his favourite strain has been bali so far for years, from a single particular vendor. And yes enjoys the opiate/relaxing effects more as swij does. It certainly, does matter where someone gets it btw.
As for swij's tram addiction, kratom is a smart choice due to serotonin/various NTs properties involve in its pharmacology as in tramadol's do, iswimo, though the tiger finds tramadol more 'powerful', (well, dose dependent), and enjoying than kratom.
However swij has nowhere else to go, if wants to keep it simple i.e. no docs, and safety wise.
Keep this up to date please, what works for swiy at last.
Last edited by testodan; 29-06-2010 at 22:53.
SWIM could name many more but if you've truly read through the Kratom forums, SWIY would know that the general consensus is that Bali Kratom would be the closest opiates. It's been mention quite a lot.
SWIY would recommend trying a Maeng Da Powder or Red Vein Indo Powder if the Bali didn't give you those opiate effects SWIY was looking for. In SWIM's experience those were the closest to opiate like effects other than the Bali.
SWIM also thinks you may want to try a different vendor if the Bali at SWIY's vendor wasn't satisfactory. SWIM really is a die-hard fan of Bali . SWIM would personally stay away from extracts/resins and the such, plain powder in his opinion is the way to go. SWIM doesn't know what to say about the taste or the stomach discomfort, except maybe it was a bad batch. SWIM finds it quite easy to tolerate a toss n wash of 30 grams of powder, but on the other hand he also toss n washes 30-40g of poppy pod grounds so he may just be a tough guy haha. :P
And good luck! SWIM was also addicted to Tramadol at one point and also used Kratom to help himself of it. Keep SWIM posted! And again good luck.
The closest SWIM ever got to an opiate using Kratom was Ultra Enhanced Indo (well actually it was a variety called 250x but it cant be purchased as far as SWIM knows anymore). A beginner might use 0.5g
UEI will almost definitely get SWIY there (some people do have problems getting the best from Kratom) however as with anything that's useful its something to respect and not abuse. It is definately habit forming and comes with a withdrawal if SWIY uses too often (SWIM knows this from first hand experience)
Now, if SWIY is new to Kratom then one can get effects as good as UEI but may have to experiment with dose, strain and vendor before hitting the target.
Clover appreciates all the responses. He has read through the Kratom forum and got bali because it was consistently recommended as a kratom variety closest to an opiate. Clover started this thread due to the lack of a direct discussion regarding this issue.
Clover has since given the bali powder a bit more play and has come to a couple of conclusions. Mainly, toss and wash just isn't for Clover. Clover loved to chew up whole leaves and wash those down with some water, but the finely ground powder Clover finds it to be too dry and resilient to absorbing moisture without agitation. In addition, when the powder does absorb moisture it tends to foam up.
Clover thinks this is what was causing the stomach discomfort and most definitely contributed to Clover's sore throat.
When using a finely ground powdered kratom, Clover now mixes it thoroughly with some water. This helps to eliminate the stomach and throat discomfort and Clover has finally gotten some pleasant experience from his kratom batch. The taste is also improved after thoroughly wetting the powder and mixing until the foam subsides.
Also, Clover has come to the conclusion that kratom is just more stimulating than opiates and this is just the nature of kratom.
SWIM knows for a fact that one "Bali" isn't the same as another " Bali", in fact most " Bali" originates from Borneo and Sumatra. Whereby the Borneo variety is the sedative and the Sumatra is the more stimulant. Some vendors mix the 2. Bad effects or not powerful enough powder is often due to bad supply and has nothing to do with the region the trees grow.