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I too am very interested in anyone's experiences with this substance. Apparently, the Uzbekistani peoples who use the plant traditionally call it something like "inebriating mint" in their native language, and I believe they consume it in a tea. There is little available info seemingly anywhere as to its effects, the active constituent(s) (is it alkaloidal, or an essential oil component, or something even like a terpene like Salvinorin A?), and even the history and cultural significance of it's traditional usage. Plus, due to various obstacles in obtaining the plant material (possibly the US-Afghan war, the geo-political isolationism of Uzbekistan, or even the rarity of the species in question), it has only recently become available on the ethnobotanical market.
I for one would like to see some bioassay reports, including experiments to establish if there are any other ways the the plant is active (possibly by smoking/vaporizing?), or if the active constituents can be concentrated into some type of an extract or something.
It's stuff like this that makes researching entheogens and ethnobotanicals so fascinating...
I found this info while doing some research:
Lagochilus Inebrians is a member of the mint family Labiatae, native to Eastern Europe and Central Asia (Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan) and has been used by tribesmen and shamans in these areas for its intoxicating and sedative effects. It is also used to treat hypertension (high blood pressure) and other nervous disorders. Vitamin K is present in this plant, and is known in western medicine for its blood-clotting properties.
A crystalline compound has been isolated from this plant and was named Lagochiline which was found to be a diterpene, but whether or not it is responsible (even partially) for the psychoactive effects that Lagochilus Inebrians intoxication produces is currently unknown.
Effects/Uses
Reported effects include sedation, intoxication and a mildly hallucinogenic experience.
FAMILY : Labiatae (Mint Family)GENUS :Lagochilus SPECIES :inebrians [Bunge] COMMON NAMES : Intoxicating Mint IDENTIFICATION : Deciduous Shrub. RANGE : The steppes of Central Asia (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia). Grows natively in sunny and arid regions. USES : Leaves of shrub are dried and made into tea as an intoxicant. Acts as a tranquilizer, intoxicant, and mild hallucinogen. CULTIVATION :Likes sun and well-drained soil.
Last edited by Bajeda; 12-04-2008 at 19:50.
Reason: formatting
The 25x resin is nice, one fourth of a gram is enough to put a 200+ pound man to sleep. definately sedative. no hallucinagenic properties were at any time experienced.
Smoking this stuff is FOUL. maybe were a freebase oil made from its active constituents it would be feasable to smoke, but as an impure resin extractthe taste cannot be abided.
Its not terrible in a tea, but it has been found that it seems more available (kicks in faster, hits harder) if eaten as a solid resin ball.
Well swim is going to boil 20 grams in tea, the stuff was here when he got home yesterday. How do you make a resin ball? Do you just boil it down to a solid? Seems like that would ruin a pot. Yea, it does not appear or smell like a good smoke. That was the first thing swim was gonna do, but he is trying a tea first.
Update:
Swim boiled 20 grams of Lagochilus inebrians for 10 minutes then poured it on top of very liberal amount of sugar, stirred it up and them poured it on ice. He was sort of in a not so good state of mind at the time. Swim drank it and it did not taste that bad, but not that good either. He felt some sedative type feelings shortly after, but nothing profound. He was not inebriated. And he really was not in that high of spirits so he fetched 8 grams of Premium Super Strength Powdered Instant Kratom and mixed it with one 12oz. can of Strawberry nectar, and shortly after his mood was lifted and swim was happy again. Swim felt like talking to the people who had pissed him off and put him in the bad mood to begin with.
Last edited by Bajeda; 22-02-2007 at 15:50.
Reason: incrim
I think it is most likely better brewed. I would not want to eat it. It is a very coarse stemmy looking material. It has very poignant smell vagueley similiar to cedar chips for a hamsters ass.
I like this one. It is subtle but definitely fun, kind of like being drunk without alcohol.
Use 5 grams dried herb, and make a tea. The tea is not much on the taste frontier though,so I have a couple of recipies to help with that. Also it has been found that very small amounts of alcohol, not enough to produce a buzz on it's own, seem to help with the absorption of the lagochilin. Since the herb is so expensive, anything that will help it work is welcome.
Get your water boiling, maybe 2 cups worth, then put in your 5 grams of lagochilus herb, continue to boil two minutes, no more than 5 minutes, then shut off the heat. Add in either instant coffee (I usually use decaf) or add two bags of Earl Grey tea and steep five more minutes. Pass this through a strainer and into your drinking cup, then add only 1/2 shot of Bailey's Irish Cream liquer (any brand of Irish Cream liquer will do).
Serves one person, and is a joy to drink both on the tast front, and on the buzz front. Effects take 30-45 minutes to kick in, and will last 4-5 hours.
Last edited by Bajeda; 12-04-2008 at 19:54.
Reason: formatting errors
Really nothing else like it at all. At least nothing else I've had the good fortune to taste so far...
I like it well enough that I'm on a quest to get some seed, to grow it for myself. It's kind of expensive and rare, but definitely worth a try in you are at all curious about these things.
To me it's relaxing, yet also somewhat energizing. Causes "innapropriate smiling"
Not visionary though. I guess a long the lines of kava maybe, except without the physical pain relief and numb mouth of kava. Not exactly like kava, but along those lines, and along the lines of alcohol too. Really though, just unique and enjoyable.
Last edited by Bajeda; 12-04-2008 at 19:53.
Reason: formatting errors
Range: E. Europe to C. Asia. The Dry mountain slopes from Georgia, Armenia, Turkistan, Uzbekistan upto Afghanistan.
Habitat: Steppes.
TREATISE:
Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth Bunge (An intriguing psychoactive member of the Labiatae family) Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth a member of the mint family Labiatae, native to the dry steppes from Georgia, Armenia in Eastern Europe, upto to Turkistan, Iran and Afghanistan in central Asia.There are over 30 species of Lagochilus. For centuries, the Tajik, Tartar, Turkmen and Uzbek tribesmen have used this interesting narcotic intoxicant, gathering the leaves usually in late July – early August.A tea of the toasted leaves, occasionally mixed with stems, fruiting tops and the white or pink flowers, is prepared, with honey or sugar to lessen the intensely bitter taste of the plant. The aromatic fragrance is said to increase on drying and storage.Phytochemical studies have shown the presence of a crystalline compound called Lagochiline - a diterpene of the grindelian type. This compound thought at first to be an alkaloid was isolated in 1945, but more studies, in 1957, showed that it was a polyhydric alcohol, present up to 3 % of the dried plant material.
The versatile pharmacological effects of Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth have led to its being adopted officially in the 8th edition of the Russian Pharmacopoeia. It is employed as an infusion or tincture as an antihemorrhagic for its haemostatic effects, to reduce permeability of blood vessels and aid in coagulation of the blood.
It has also been recommended for use in treating certain allergies, glaucoma, and skin diseases, and has been reported to be valuable for nervous disorders as a hypotensive, anti-spasmodic and sedative. Its properties as a sedative, are due possibly to the same constituents responsible for the central nervous activity, basic to the folk use of the plant as a narcotic.
Physical Characteristics
A obviously very stemmy, deciduous shrub growing unto 1m. The flowers are hermaphrodite (have both male and female organs).
The plant prefers light (sandy) and medium (loamy) soils and requires well-drained soil. The plant prefers acid, neutral and basic (alkaline) soils. It cannot grow in the shade. It requires dry or moist soil and can tolerate drought.
Whole Plant description:
Prickly, almost spherical, polybush grows up to 1m height, families of Laminaceae Lindi. Leaves are opposite, wild, three, five-separate, with numerous fibrils and glands. Cups are bell-shaped, nimbus are pink. Flowers are pink collected on the tops of the stalks in inflorescences. The plant blossoms in June-August. The herb should be harvested sometime in late July, early August and then dried, as the aromatic fragrance and medicinal properties are said to increase on drying. Do not let the plant dry naturally in autumn, for all naturally occurring chemicals, are lost at the same time and the herb instead of tasting bitter, tastes only woody! In autumn, even when the main plant has dried and died, you will notice the root is full of fluid and quite alive. It is not uncommon at all to find the previous year’s dried and dead plant still attached to the root and lying by the side. It is rather surprising to find such few specimens locally, when one takes into account the number of seeds each plant produces. It is obvious the plant over produces seeds, due to the harsh environment in which it makes its natural habitat. The root is usually found deep within rocky soil, from which it is next to impossible to extract.
Leaves contain lagochiline (C24H44O6) substance consisted of four-nuclear spirit. Leaves contain also radio oil - 0.03 %, tannins-11-14 %, sugar, ascorbic acid, carotid; in stalks - tannins 6.8 %, sugar, carotin; in roots- tannins and sugar.
Raw materials have a strong aromatic odour, bitter to taste.
The great bulk of raw material is consumed in the form of a tea. Moisture content is no more than 13 %, ashes residue is no more than 11 %, other bodies of the plant no more than 3 %, small particles which are filtered through a sieve with a maximum size of 1?? apertures - no more than 2 %, organic impurity no more than 1 % and mineral impurity no more than 1 %.
Morphological Differences Between Georgian & Armenian and Turkmen Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth subspecific taxa.
Subspecies (ssp.) are commonly used to recognize the existence of regional variants of a species; that is some degree of morphological differentiation (not as great as that between species) accompanies geographic (or ecological, or temporal) separation from other subspecies. Like all flora and fauna, the same species, has some slight specific differences in morphology, within it’s natural habitat; being found from Georgia in the Caucasian mountain range to Afghanistan in Central Asia.
REF: Textbook of Phytotherapy 11 Edition – L.V.Harutunian & R.K.Hovhanissian – Chapter 307 – Page 394.)
All phytochemical constituents and pharmacological actions, remain identical.
REF: 1) Pharmaceutical Biology (Formerly International Journal of Pharmacognosy) Publisher: Taylor & Francis
Issue: Volume 35, Number 1 / January 1997
These morphological differences are given below:
1)Georgian and Armenian Lagochilus Inebrians usually, has around 10 of the typical hexagonal calyces/flowers at each node on the stem per node, the Central Asian type has typically around 4.
2) Armenia Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth stem is also possibly somewhat more hairy than the Turkmen type.
Edible Uses
Tea.
Dried leaves and flowers are boiled with sugar and honey to make a tea. Sometimes mixed with stems, fruits or toasted leaves. Honey and sugar are often added to reduce their bitterness. Drying and storage increase their aromatic fragrance. Usage: 5 grams per person.
Medicinal Uses
Antispasmodic; Haemostatic; Hallucinogenic; Hypotensive; Sedative; Uterine tonic.
The branches are antispasmodic, haemostatic, hallucinogenic, hypotensive and sedative. Infusion is used internally in the treatment of allergies and the shrub has been used to treat skin disorders.
The branches are harvested in the autumn after flowering and are dried for later use. They become more fragrant and medicinally active once they have been dried.
Entheogenic/Psychological Properties
Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth has been used since ancient times, for its intoxicating and sedative properties by Armenian, Tajik, Tatar, Turkoman and Uzbek tribesman and Shamans. It has also been used for it’s other medical, therapeutic effects in controlling hemorrhage, Anti-epileptic and anti-infective effects etc. A crystalline compound isolated from the plant and named lagochiline and thought at first to be an alkaloid was isolated in 1945 but more recent studies, in 1957, showed that it was a polyhydric alcohol, present up to 3 % of the dried plant material, has proved to be aditerpene. Maximum quantities of lagochilinus accumulate in plants is in the phase of flowering and during fruit production (May- July). Whether or not it produces the psychoactive effects of the whole plant is unknown. The versatile pharmacological effects of Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth, have led to its being adopted officially in the 8th edition of the Russian Pharmacopoeia. It is employed as an infusion or tincture as an antihemorrhagic for its hemostatic effects, to reduce permeability of blood vessels and aid in coagulation of the blood. It has also been recommended for use in treating certain allergies, glaucoma, and skin diseases, and has been reported to be valuable for nervous disorders as a hypotensive, anti-spasmodic and sedative. Its properties as a sedative are due possibly to the same constituents responsible for the central nervous activity basic to the folk use of the plant as a narcotic. A tea of the toasted leaves, occasionally mixed with stems, fruiting tops and the white flowers, is prepared, with honey or sugar to lessen the intensely bitter taste of the plant. The aromatic fragrance is said to increase on drying and storage. Advised dosage is 5 gms only.
Despite the name "inebrians," it seems that it is more of a sedative than an inebriant. The plant has hypotensive properties (i.e. it lowers blood pressure). This makes it useful for various medical conditions and procedures, but it also means that it could be dangerous for people with hypotension.
Many pharmacological properties are ascribed to this plant. Effects like: reduces tension or anxiety, sedative, intoxicant and mild hallucinogenic are often reported.
List of chemicals
Extracts and tinctures made of flowers and leaves accelerate blood coagulation. They have also sedative effect. In an experiment the Lagochilus preparation strengthen processes of internal neural braking and relieve a state of neurosis. A preparation of Lagochilus gives a strong excitation and state of well being. It renders antiepileptic action if used after strychnine, caffeine, corazole and camphor injections. It increases gastric secretions and increases digestive power. Lagochilus tincture has marked spasmolitic action when induced with carbochiline. Preliminary administration of Lagochilus tincture prevents spastic reduction of intestines caused by carbocholine.
Studies on Lagochilus tinctures/infusion has proven to be beneficial in countering Anaphylactic shock and prevents the recurrence of anaphylaxis shock, when administered for the second time
Activities
The number in () indicates how many separate chemicals this species has for that activity, for example, Analgesic (3) indicates this species has three separate chemicals that have Analgesic activity.
NB:1,2 or 3 does not necessarily indicate the potency of the chemical involved.
Cite as USDA, ARS, National Genetic Resources Program. Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases. [Online Database] National Germplasm Resources Laboratory, Beltsville, Maryland. 30 August 2004.
Further Ethnobotanical research should be carried out as a basis for more critical and extensive phytochemical and pharmacological studies which the plant merit!.
Experiments
Extracts and tinctures of Lagochilus have been tested in Samarqand Medical Institute on 170 patients. The preparation has been experimented for its sedative effects on functional disturbances of nervous system, and found the effect of treatment has been considered good - 53 % patients, satisfactory- 27% and weak-10 %, no effect - 0% patients.
As a sedative Lagochilus was tried in psychiatric clinics on 50 patients with neurotic conditions, organic diseases of the central nervous system, epilepsy and other diseases (By DR A Z. Rosenberg).
Preparations of Lagochilus give good results in the treatment functional diseases and consequences of organic diseases of the central nervous system. Sedative effect of the preparation as a result gives dream improvement, reduces effective excitability,
Good results in treating eczema. With the dosage of Lagochilus infusion (1:20) 1 tablespoon 3 times a day for 45-60days.Lagochilus preparations have been used on patients with hypertension. It was observed Patients general health state improved. Reduced Vertigo, headache and dizziness, work capability increased. With 30-60days of treatment with Lagochilus. The maximum arterial pressure was normalized in 40 % patients; minimal effect was on 32 % of patients. By the end of Treatment majority of patients with arterial blood pressure second stage has gone down to first stage. The most effective haemostatic activity appeared in various bleedings: uterus, haemorrhoidal, nasal (epistaxis), lung, and for hemorrhagic diathesis.
Clinical efficiency of the extract and tinctures in various bleedings the following data was observed, study on 300 patients accepting this preparation, good effect has been seen in 193 (64 %), satisfactory - in 58 (19 %), weak – in 29 (10 %), no effect in 20 (7 %) patients.
Special Data on clinical efficiency of this preparation in hemorrhagic diathesis and hemophilia. have been proven by The tests which have been carried out in Leningrad institute of hemotransfusy and in the Central institute of hematology and blood transfusion. Though these data were formulated, from experiments, on a small amount of patients, they are worthy, taking into consideration the difficulties arising with treating patients with these disease.
Conclusion from experiments and clinical studies, this preparation can be recommended in uterine, haemorrhoidal, traumatic, lung and nasal bleedings, and treatment hemorrhagic diathesis, hemophilia, Werlholf diseases, Henoch Shcholein disorder, functional nervous disturbances, some allergic skin disease like pruritis, dermatitis, eczema, skinrash, Urticaria, neurodermatitis, Hypertension 1 - 2 stages, glaucoma and for prevention of post operative bleeding .
Methods of Preparation (Preparation of Extract
Traditionally to treat such ailments, 10gm of dried plant material are ground up and added to 200ml of boiling water for about 10 minutes. It is then allowed to cool at room temperature and strained. One to two tablespoons of the liquid are drunk 3 to 5 times daily.
This is what I've heard to be a great prep tec; Infuse with hot, slightly acified water (might not be needed since lagochilin's not an alkaloid, but there might be reasons for it), cover and let cool. Even 2 grams with this method is said to produce strong effects, where boiling as much as 20 g seems to fail. The lagochilin is probably quite voiltile.
Another method of extractionactual report)
"Since it contains a diterpene, like pot or salvia, I thought it might work better than ethanol/methanol. After letting it soak for about two weeks, i filtered and let it evaporate in a glass dish for about another two or three weeks, sort of unintentionally
I just scraped the resin together before with a little bit of finely ground lago herb and smoked a small piece in a pipe. Still have a lot more left from the 20g, maybe 10 times what i just tried, so there's a good yield.
There is definently a nice heavy, feeling in the head and body, sort of like pot but without any head stuff like paranoia, racing thoughts, etc. I think i like it. Overall i think the acetone extraction is a good method for lagochilus herb and provides some good results'
Extract of Lagochilus are prepared from leaves (some literatures claim the whole plant is medically active) of plant in the ratio 1:10 or 1:20. Crush Leaves into small pieces, and add to water (room temperature) in a container, then place this container in boiling water for 15 minutes ,keep on stirring the content, and cool for 45 minutes at room temperature. Usually this extract can be used as sedative, for adults in dosage of 1 tablespoon 3-6 times a day. Dosage depends on disease condition. In chronic bleedings and for prevention for post operative (gynecologic operations) 2 tablespoon of extract 3-5 times a day. In case of hemorrhagic diathesis, it is recommended to give high doses, about 50ml of extract 3-5 times a day. Extract can also be used for external application. Moisten gauze napkins with this extract and place it on bleeding part for the period of 2-5 minutes.
Lagochilus Tincture:
It is prepared from Lagochilus leaves with 70 % spirit. 1 teaspoon 3 times a day. For arresting bleedings 1-2 teaspoons of tincture in 1/4 glass of water 2 hourly. When bleeding is reduced, dosage of tincture is reduced and it is used for 3 times a day. In a bleeding diathesis, the dose is teaspoons 5 times in day.
Cultivation details
We have very little information on this species and do not know if it will be hardy in Britain, The US and Europe, though it experiences very cold winters in its native range and so should be completely cold-hardy. The main problem it is likely to face is with cool damp weather. It comes from a sunny and fairly arid region of the world, with a continental climate and so it is likely to require a very sunny position, in a well-drained dry rocky soil.
Cultivation
Seeds should be lightly covered in a well drained soil, soil should be kept moist until plant sprouts and takes hold. Likes full sun. Be careful when putting it outside if you live in the area, it may spread.
Propagation
Seed - Prick out the seedlings when they are large enough to handle and grow them on in the greenhouse for at least their first winter. Plant them out in late spring or early summer and consider giving them some protection from winter rain. I think it would be a good idea if the seedlings could be planted on the slopes of a rockery, as that is exactly it’s natural environment.
The contents of lagochiline in raw material should be not less than 0.5 %. Keep in a dry place.
Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth
Legal Status
By Erowid
This means all parts of the plant and its extracts are legal to buy, sell, cultivate, and possess without a license or prescription. If sold as a supplement, sales must conform to U.S. supplement laws. If sold for consumption as a food or drug, sales are regulated by the FDA.
U.S. FEDERAL LAW
Caution: All legal information should be verified through other sources
INTERNATIONAL LAW
Central Asia
Lagochilus inebrians/cabulicus benth is an endangered species in Central Asia. While it is not listed as endangered by the Conventional on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Flora and Fauna (CITES), countries in the region do list is as endangered in their own laws. Therefore, while it may not be considered an illegal substance in the United States, it is illegal to harvest the plant from the wild in Central Asia. However, seeds there can be collected from the wild and grown locally.
[Citation: "Lagochilus inebrians (Bunge)" in Red Data Book of Uzbek SSR: Rare and Endangered Species of Animals and Plants: Volume II ("Plants"); pp 41-42. "Fan" Publishing House of the Uzbek SSR, Tashkent, Uzbekistan, 1984.]
References:
1) Hakaopov E A. Published research book on experimental studies; effect of Lagochilus on cardiovascular system 1953; no 6, second edition 1955, pharmacology and pharmacotherapy of Lagochilus.
2) Hakaopov E A experimental studies Mechanism of haemostatic effect of Lagochilus 1954.
3) Hakaopov E A experimental studies anti convulsive effect of Lagochilus infusion 1954.
4) L.V harutyunian & R.K Hovanisian phytotherapy 1994, second edition 1998 no.307s
5) Infusions and tinctures of the green matter from Lagochilus inebrians Bge. are described as having pharmacological activity exhibited by hemostatic and sedative properties of a general nature that are in part attributed to the spiro ether-containing labdane, lagochiline, which as been isolated from the plant. However, details regarding the preparations and the diterpene itself are not available: (a) Abramov, M.M.; Yaparova, S.A. J. Appl. Chem., USSR 1963, 36, 2471. (b) Chizhov, O.S.; Kessenikh, A.V.; Yakolev, I.P.; Zolatorev, B.M.; Petukhov, V.A. Tetrahedron Lett. 1969, 1361.
6) Ken Fern
Notes from observations, tasting etc at Plants for a Future and on field trips.
7)Emboden. W. Narcotic Plants Studio Vista 1979 ISBN 0-289-70864-8
A lot of details about the history, chemistry and use of narcotic plants, including hallucinogens, stimulants, inebriants and hypnotics.
8) James A Duke:"Handbook of Medicinal Herbs", Lagochilus Inebrians Bunge. Translation Russian news / http:// www .golkom.ru/Emboden. W. Narcotic Plants Studio Vista
9) U.S. Department of Commerce. Business Information Service for the Newly Independent States (BISNIS), Country Report. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Commerce; 1999.
10) WIIW Handbook of Statistics: Countries in Transition 1999. Vienna, Austria: The Vienna Institute for International Economic Studies; 1999.
11) Prokoudin YN, editor. Field Guide to Higher Plants of Ukraine (in Ukrainian). Naukova Dumka: Kiev, 1987.
12) Mosyakin SL, Fedoronchuk MM. Vascular plants of Ukraina (in Ukrainian). Kiev: Naukova Dumka; 1999.
13) Tsarenko PM, Palamar'-Mordvintseva GM, Vasser SP. Diversity of Ukrainian algae (preliminary data). Algologiya (in Russian) 1998; 8:227-41.
14) Stetsenko M. Nature reserve business is a priority of national nature preservation policy. Motherland Nature (in Ukrainian) 1998, Issues 1-3:10-13.
15) Types of Medicinal Products. U.S. Embassy in Georgia, December 1998.
16)Takhtadzhian AL, editor. Life of Plants (in Russian). Vol. 5, parts 1 and 2. Moscow: Prosveshenije; 1981.
17) Mamchour FI. Plants Heal (in Ukrainian). Kiev: Znanija; 1971.
18)Zinchenko TV, Stakhiv IV, Miakushka TY, Kaloshina NA, Nikonov GK Medicinal Plants in Gastroenterology (BV Zavirukha, editor, in Russian). Kiev: Naukova Dumka; 1990.
19)Pavlenko LO. Healing Products of Earth. 2nd ed. (in Ukrainian). Kiev: Naukova Dumka; 1988.
20)Rabinovich AM. Medicinal Plants in the Backyard (in Russian). Moscow: Rosagropromizdat; 1989.
21) Nosal’ MA, Nosal' IM. Medicinal Plants and Methods of Their Ethnic Applications (in Ukrainian). Kiev: State Medical Publishing House; 1958.
22) Doudchenko LG, Krivenko VV. Edible Plants-Healers. 2nd ed. (in Russian). Naukova Dumka: Kiev, 1988.
This is what I've heard to be a great prep tec; Infuse with hot, slightly acified water (might not be needed since lagochilin's not an alkaloid, but there might be reasons for it), cover and let cool. Even 2 grams with this method is said to produce strong effects, where boiling as much as 20 g seems to fail. The lagochilin is probably quite voiltile.
Forgive me and my lack of chemistry background, but how can you acidify water such as you would for this preparation method?
Yeah sorry, that seems pretty obvious now. I was tired when I posted that and I realized how stupid the question was right when I got to bed.
Anyways.... Anyone know the traditional method of preparation for this mint? People complain of lack of effects (all with so many ethnos) yet in Turkestan and the related areas you don't see people complaining. What do they do right?
I think this will be hard to find out as Lagochilus inebrians is an endagoured species and much Lagochilus inebrians offered on the net is fake. Unless someone started up a Lagochilus inebrians nursery recently, Lagochilus inebrians is very hard to come by.
My best bet is to go for pure lagochilline, as this is offered by some ethno sources but then the question about what the correct dosage for lagochiline is remains.
Re: Lagochilus Inebrians / Turkestan mint / Inebriating Mint
Swim tried Turkestan Mint for the first time a few days ago, though he forgot to use acidified water, oops. Report is below.
Preparation
Five grams of the mint was steeped in 2 cups of water for 15 minutes, with a bag of tea added after 10. A teaspoon of honey was then added after the bag of mint and teabag were removed. The mint was simply wrapped up in a coffee filter and tied together before being immersed in the water.
After being removed the sack of mint (5g) was removed and left to sit in 1.5g of cool water to see if a cold extraction would do anything.
Effects
The taste was fairly bitter, so swim added another teaspoon and a half of honey after he first sipped it to make the taste more manageable. After this there was more of a slight bitter taste that went down quite well.
After ten minutes swim felt a bit "funny", though he wouldn't describe it as inebriation. He also had a slight "cottony" feeling in the back of his head, similar to what he experienced with Ketamine though on a much lesser scale.
Forty minutes after ingestion swim was feeling relaxed and chilled out. Any anxiety swim had drifted away. Swim got a strong urge to smoke a cig or some cannabis at this point. Also at this point somewhat of an "inebriating" effect was felt, with swim not quite with it and his coordination slowed.
After two hours swim felt somewhat tired, but still relaxed. He had a cigarette which felt pretty nice, though he believes cannabis would have been a much better substance to smoke in combination with the brew. Judging from how he felt smoking the cig on the mint there is potential for synergistic effects with marijuana, though swim will have to test that another time. Swim also isn't sure on the dose, he thinks he may have gotten more prominent effects if he took a higher one, but he isn't sure about side effects with increased dose. Looking at methods of potentiation would probably be a better route than taking the risk of consuming increasingly higher doses.
At four hours past ingestion swim took 100mg of 5-HTP and dozed off fairly soon after which was nice considering he usually has a great deal of trouble getting to sleep.
The experiment overall wasn't especially conclusive. Swim is glad he got some effects from the brew but he feels there is more to explore. Acidifying the water next time may help with extraction, and taste as well depending on what's used. Exploring the synergy of Lagochilus with cannabis could also have potential. Swim has had his bag of mint sitting in cool water for several days now so he may try another go with that seeing as the water looks to be fairly infused by this point. He will have to look at possibly adding an acidic agent to the mix before consuming. When he experiments with this second brew he will post, though after that swim is out of mint for a while....
BajEdit: Forgot to mention, swim's Lagochilus Inebrians was from a reputable online vendor who reportedly procured the substance from Uzbekistan. It came in shredded form, leaves, stems, etc. all of it seemed to be there. Gave off a decent aroma but nothing really strong. Smell was weaker than the Catmint (Nepata Cataria) for sure.
Update: Something went wrong with swim's cold water extraction and it got messed up so no repeat trial for now..... Swim will have to wait for another opportunity to try this plant.
Re: Lagochilus Inebrians / Turkestan mint / Inebriating Mint
Swim made a brew of 10 grams dried herb the night before last.
Tasted foul, on par with Kratom but with an evil aftertaste on swims lips.
Swim felt come up feelings of some sort before a sedative effect arrived. A slight shift in thought was noticed, approx 1/10th the strength of Cannabis. No lift in mood or euphoria was noticed.
Just made swim feel like he couldn,t be f#cked doing anything, lazy, withdrawn and bored.
This faded into a sleepy feeling so swim went to bed and slept very well.
Swim didn,t find this any more interesting than other mild sedatives like Catmint or Passion flower, however he would like to try again using 20grams with Cannabis.
The smoke is hot and harsh, there's a burning sensation in my throat as I inhale it but the taste is nice, despite not much perfumed.
Til that time, the day had been boring. As the lazy guy I am I hadn't really been stimulated by the perspective of the upcoming next hours. However, after a few puffs I started to feel quite calm and contented, and for the very first time of the afternoon, I noticed how a nice day that was. The sun was shining softly, the wind was blowing into the branches of trees and the singing of the birds from the garden outside was entering the room through the window, soothing me.
I hadn't been enjoying anything of it for the rest of the day but now this was filling me with a strong feeling of contentment. At some point I rised from the bed were I was lying and sat with my elbows on the edge of the window, driven by the will to participate to the life that was going on outside through my contemplation. I'm feeling lazy but my mind is absorbed by the landscape, attentive to every details of the scene.
Life is following its course, slightly slowed down by the warmth of the late afternoon. A plesant routine. Among the distant sounds of the city, the sound of some percussion instrument can be heard, probably a djembe. A cat in the garden seems to be enjoying the instant in the exact same way that I am, staring at his surrounding very quietly, but paying attention to every bits and pieces which are making up the moment.
My eyes were gliding over the golden glints of the sunshine among the thorns of a pine tree when I decided to move, the nonchalant rythme of the end of the day had filled me with a sweet inspiration and I felt that it was a good time for writing.
Material used:
Lagochilus inebriens dried flowers from Uzbekistan.
Dosage, preparation and use:
One gram of the dried flowers, finely crushed, and mixed half with tobacco so to ensure good burn (one cigarette and a half of tobacco was used)
The mix was smoked as joints (two joint as the all material wouldn't fit into a single one)
Each toke was kept in the lungs for a few seconds before exhaling the smoke.
Quality of the smoke:
the smoke is hot and harsh, burns the throat but the taste itself is ok despite not much perfumed.
Onset: first effects can be felt after a few puffs, so that's about 10-30seconds
Duration of the effects: a good hour and a half. Still feeling some very slight remaining mind fog after 2hours.
Effects description: very soothing but not too sedative, there's also a slight feeling of warmth, mind slightly foggy, there's no real ophoria but there's a general feeling of contentment. Good for contemplation and meditation for sure.
It feels much less 'intoxicating' than cannabis, or let's say that the effect is quite different from cannabis, but swim enjoyed it a lot, really nice stuff.
No pupils dilatation.
Negative effects: None were noted, besides the harsh smoke that is irritating to the lungs and throat (coughed violently once or twice when finishing the second joint).
Conclusion: worth trying, effect is really pleasant.
Swim would be very interested in trying the plant orally (as a tea) but swim hasn't enough left for making a strong tea (swim would want to start safe with only
5g as a tea, and then work up the dosage to 30g to see how it goes...maybe there's some inebriating effect in high doses?).
Also, swim think that some 20x extract would be a very valuable smoke.
ps: as said alpha, there might be some fake lagochilus on the web market place, however the plant is easy to identify, even in its dried form, notably through it's spiny flowers and shape of leaves.
actual report)
