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Old 10-04-2012, 16:23
pema pema is offline
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Highly potent Kratom extracts - not possible or not effective?

I saw a youtube-video (from kratomexposed[dot]com) ("Kratom_Extract_-_The_Whole_Truth.mp4").
Some vendors sell 50x kratom extracts or highly concentrated full spectrum kratom extract liquids.
When I believe what the man tells me in the video, this is not possible or not useful.

The speaker starts the video with the following words:
The effects of kratom on the human brain and body are caused by over 25 alkaloids found in the plant. To have a full spectrum of alkaloids the highest possible ratio of extraction is 20:1. Any more than this is either marketing hype or will be inferior as only certain alkaloids would have been isolated. The human body can only absorb limited amounts of kratom alkaloids. So even if it were possible to make extract with a greater than 20:1 ratio, it would have no greater effect.
Why should it be not possible to make extracts more concentrated than 20:1?
If would take 20 grams of kratom to make a water extraction and would boil in the solution, then the resulting residue would be more than 1 gram and it would be impossible to concentrate it more than this? Is this true?

It seems that the most concentrated extracts that you can buy in Germany/Asutria/Netherlands are 15x extracts but I found some 50x extracts on US American vendors' websites.
Is this is just a waste of money or do those 50x extracts have the promised effects?

I read some reviews on liquid kratom extracts and most people who bought that stuff wrote, that it is good but actually not worth the money and it would be better to buy good kratom and to make an own tincture.

And is it really true that the body can only absorb limited amounts of kratom alkaloids?
I know that a lot of people say that taking too much kratom does not result in getting higher but in getting sick and starting to vomit.
But while there are people who tell that they use maybe 5 gram to get a good effect, others tell that they need at least 20-30 gram in order to feel anything.
So where would be the limit how much kratom alkaloids can be absorbed?
Some clinical studies were made with kratom or different kratom alkaloids. I searched pubmed/medline and found some results. Most trials were made with guinea-pigs or rats and not with humans.
And I could not find anything that would prove this statement on kratom alkaloid absorption limits. But maybe it is there and i just have not found it.

Does anybody know more about this topic?
Any personal observations on kratom alkaloid absorption limits? Or experiences with making highly potent kratom extracts?
Old 10-04-2012, 17:05
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: Highly potent Kratom extracts - not possible or not effective?

There is a difference between what is being sold as 20X and what a 20:1 (Full spectrum) extract is.

20:1 is given as the maximum extraction of all kratoms alkaloids, or a 'full spectrum' of alkaloids because when you take a certain amount of kratom leaves and you extract all the alkaloids they can only ever weigh whatever weight they existed in to begin, where as what are marketed as X type extracts usually refer to the amount of kratom leaf used to make one gram of extract.

So a 20X extract sold by headshops is not a full spectrum extract, its final weight takes into account everything and not only the alkaloids that have been extracted.
20 grams of leaf are turned into 1 gram of resin. Aparently.

Most products sold as X extracts are usually basic water/alcohol extracts, which are reduced to a resin and then sold in that form or powdered. They tend to be closer to about 3 times the potency per gram as plain leaf, but this will vary wildly.

The problem with the use of the X is that people take it as an indication of strength. But if you start with 100 grams of bad kratom and you somehow managed to turn it into 1 gram of extract (which outside of a lab is probably an imposibility) then your probably going to end up with a poor quality extract. Where as if you started with 10 grams of quality kratom and made the extract using the same process you would end up with a product that could be stronger han the supposed 100X.

Personally when it comes to 'Full Spectrum' extracts ive never been impressed. And most people would probably prefare a gram of an extract of one (or several) of Kratoms most active alkaloids than all of them.

By extracting select alkaloids you can still only get the 20:1 ratio, but by eliminating some of the alkaloids and concentrating on one or more you can make a more powerful extract, at least in the sense of the most notable effects.

Your body can only absorb a certain amount of anything. From the moment you ingest something untill its passed through you. If you take more than you can absorb then whats left will come out, without being too graphic about it

A lot of the high potency products being sold are made using extracts produced in China.
Personally i dont think they are worth the prices they are sold as and i would be concerned that many contain more than just Kratom alkaloids.

They are best avoided by anyone who intends to use kratom regularly as they will raise your tollerance dramatically making regular kratom leaf ineffective at regular doses and they will bring on a far nastier addiction which many people have reported to be every bit as bad as other opiate addictions.

I would personally like to see these strong extracts and enhanced products removed for sale as i think they risk kratoms continued legality in the remaining countrys where it still is legally sold.

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