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  #1  
Old 22-06-2012, 06:11
psychoanomaly psychoanomaly is offline
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Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Hey guys,

So a long time ago, I used to mix phenibut with kratom with relatively little side effects. My usual dose would be a 1g of phenibut with 4-6g of bali kratom.

Anyways, these days I'm much more cautious. I remember the kratom and phenibut combo to be a great time, and I'd like to try it again, but before I do I'd like the opinion of you guys. Are these substances safe to mix?
  #2  
Old 24-06-2012, 05:48
seaturtle seaturtle is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Not really safe at all to be perfectly honest. Kratom hits the mu-opioid receptors hard, phenibut hits the GABA receptors hard. SWIY could easily overdose and die in their sleep :/ If SWIY wants to persist with this method take a small amount of phenibut to be careful, 1 gram seems like too much. The amount of Kratom seems reasonable.

Also SWIM knows phenibut is extremely addictive based on all the reports SWIM has seen. SWIM knows Kratom is addictive from SWIM's own life. There's no way this'll end up good for SWIY, with 2 powerful psychologically addicting substances being used at the same time, both of which are easily available.

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Good harm reduction advice. Great point about both being addictive and that spelling danger.
  #3  
Old 24-06-2012, 20:07
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaturtle View Post
Not really safe at all to be perfectly honest. Kratom hits the mu-opioid receptors hard, phenibut hits the GABA receptors hard. SWIY could easily overdose and die in their sleep :/ If SWIY wants to persist with this method take a small amount of phenibut to be careful, 1 gram seems like too much. The amount of Kratom seems reasonable.

Also SWIM knows phenibut is extremely addictive based on all the reports SWIM has seen. SWIM knows Kratom is addictive from SWIM's own life. There's no way this'll end up good for SWIY, with 2 powerful psychologically addicting substances being used at the same time, both of which are easily available.
1 gram seems like too much? Overdose? Kratom is powerfully addictive?

Phenibut and kratom is a ridiculously safe combo when not abused on a regular basis. Overdosing (and dying) on phenibut is almost unheard of, and same goes to kratom. These are safe substances. 1 gram of phenibut is a small amount to some, I take 2, others take 4+. Overdose consists of dizzyness and nausea, not death.

And kratom isn't what I would say a very addictive substance. Sure, I'm addicted to it, but it's almost on par with being addicted to coffee. There are much more dangerous and addictive substances that make kratom look like childs play.

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Very unsafe attitude and claims about mixing substances. Kratom with some substances causes death, with this attitude about kratom, this is not harm reduction.
Sensical advice from personal experience.
Keep in mind that your personal experiences and the conclusuions you draw from them may not apply to others as they do to you personally..
Just a realistic answer. I agree that these are safe substances.
  #4  
Old 24-06-2012, 20:26
seaturtle seaturtle is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachoManSavage View Post
1 gram seems like too much? Overdose? Kratom is powerfully addictive?

Phenibut and kratom is a ridiculously safe combo when not abused on a regular basis. Overdosing (and dying) on phenibut is almost unheard of, and same goes to kratom. These are safe substances. 1 gram of phenibut is a small amount to some, I take 2, others take 4+. Overdose consists of dizzyness and nausea, not death.

And kratom isn't what I would say a very addictive substance. Sure, I'm addicted to it, but it's almost on par with being addicted to coffee. There are much more dangerous and addictive substances that make kratom look like childs play.
Combining is the issue, saturating both the GABA and mu-opioid receptors at the same time isn't smart. Either the Kratom or the phenibut/benzos need to be kept to a very low amount when combining to be safe.

And btw, read the reports of phenibut on erowid, SWIM agrees Kratom isn't that bad but phenibut is HIGHLY addictive and there are serious withdrawal symptoms. Kratom withdrawal can't kill you, phenibut withdrawal can. Phenibut addiction also develops much faster (within 10 days) rather than Kratom which takes months upon months. SWIM has tried most of the "popular" legal drugs, but won't touch phenibut with a 10 foot pole.

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A good warning about combining drugs and the addictive nature of phenibut
  #5  
Old 24-06-2012, 20:38
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachoManSavage View Post
And kratom isn't what I would say a very addictive substance. Sure, I'm addicted to it, but it's almost on par with being addicted to coffee.
You have recently discusses "15 days of constant struggle" when talking about quitting kratom.
That sounds to me like a good sign of a very addictive substance.

You said in another thread you were "fighting to stop" and you were considering using Iboga to help you with your addiction. That is not something that a person takes to quit something on a par with coffee.

You have said other things in other threads that also contradict the above statement, such as being unable to stay off it more than a few days because of cravings to re-use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MachoManSavage View Post
Phenibut and kratom is a ridiculously safe combo when not abused on a regular basis.
Is this based on any scientific evidence?
In an earlier thread you made a claim that kratom had been tested and studied and proven to be safe, yet despite people (including myself) asking you to provide links to, or upload these studies you have not yet done so, i said before that it would be a great addition to these forum and site in general. But i dont actually know of any such studies and tests and no one else i have mentioned it to seems to know about them either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachoManSavage View Post
Overdosing (and dying) on phenibut is almost unheard of, and same goes to kratom. These are safe substances. 1 gram of phenibut is a small amount to some, I take 2, others take 4+. Overdose consists of dizzyness and nausea, not death.
The worry is not that taking either substance alone will cause problems, what the OP is concerned about is combining the two.
There are many drugs which are safe when taken alone in the correct dose, however it is not recomended that a person combine drugs that depress the central nervous system, espicially if they have not been studied as part of a combination before. Just because one person takes such a combination without any issue should not be taken by everyone as some sort of proof that that combination is without risk.

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Thank you for telling it like it is, and clearing up dangerous ignorant information.
  #6  
Old 24-06-2012, 20:50
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Be very careful of phenibut. Its got the initial effect of being a nice relaxing GABAx anxiolitic. But dose it daily for more than a few days and you will get withdrawals / glutamate excitation very similar to using GBL 24/7 or GHB.

No real issues with the combo as I see it, but dont add any more downers into the mix. Kratom is luckily not very strong as a respiratory depressant*, any other sort of opiod combined with gabagenics like phenibut or benzos should definately be avoided.

* Not 100% sure of this, if anyone knows that would be worth considerable rep, but im 98.2% sure as it stands.
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Old 24-06-2012, 20:59
Sovereignty Sovereignty is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

SWIM used to use about the same proportions as you. 1g of phenibut and 3-4 grams of kratom. The trick was to take the phenibut at the beginning of the day and then consume the kratom leaves about 3 hours later. An excellent recipe for an anxiety-free day. It also allowed him to handle heavy amounts of caffeine without the anxiety that usually comes with it. As far as SWIM can see, it's relatively safe, as phenibut is a GABA agonist while kratom is opoid. It does, however, increase the risk of addiction (particularly to the phenibut), though it seems harmless when used in moderation. SWIM only did this 2x a week so withdrawal was never an issue.
  #8  
Old 24-06-2012, 21:06
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesthesiac View Post
Be very careful of phenibut. Its got the initial effect of being a nice relaxing GABAx anxiolitic. But dose it daily for more than a few days and you will get withdrawals / glutamate excitation very similar to using GBL 24/7 or GHB.

No real issues with the combo as I see it, but dont add any more downers into the mix. Kratom is luckily not very strong as a respiratory depressant*, any other sort of opiod combined with gabagenics like phenibut or benzos should definately be avoided.

* Not 100% sure of this, if anyone knows that would be worth considerable rep, but im 98.2% sure as it stands.
Kratom by itself does not seem to be a strong respiratory depressant, however, I know from personal experience that kratom and hydrocodone causes very strong respiratory problems with me. I took 5 grams of kratom and 10 miligrams of hydrocodone and thought I was going to have to visit the ER. 10 mg of hydrocodone is basically a joke FOR ME because of my tolerance by itself, I can take up to 55 mg or sometimes 60 mg when my tolerance is at it's highest (I don't suggest anyone do this, it is a bad addiction), and I can take up to 8 grams of kratom with only having a mild headache and naseua.

Kratom by itself don't seem so bad and there has not been one recorded death from kratom overdose only, but it does at least for me have bad consequences when mixed with other opiates.

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A good warning based on personal experience of mixing drugs.
  #9  
Old 24-06-2012, 21:07
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesthesiac View Post
Kratom is luckily not very strong as a respiratory depressant*, any other sort of opiod combined with gabagenics like phenibut or benzos should definately be avoided.

* Not 100% sure of this, if anyone knows that would be worth considerable rep, but im 98.2% sure as it stands.
Compared to opiates Kratom does not cause as much respiratory depression, thankfully, espicially considering some of the high doses people take. The alkaloids bind to a few different receptors and the one that causes most issues with RD i believe is mu-opioid receptor which is effected by the 7-hydroxymitragynine alkaloid. The other alkaloids which make up the majority work on the delta receptors.

The combination with other drugs that cause RD to any extent would be cause of concern. I think that it might be even more dangerous if using extracts that have been done on spicific alkaloids, like 7-hydroxymitragynine isolates.

A worry would be that a person who might have not experienced any problems with a phenibut and kratom combination, might move to higher doses or extracts which might create a greater danger.

Last edited by ianzombie; 24-06-2012 at 21:16.
  #10  
Old 24-06-2012, 21:12
thirdeyelasik thirdeyelasik is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Katom isn't very selective for the mu-opioid receptors from what I've read. Phenibut is certainly a strong substance on its own that shouldn't be taken for granted just because it is legal. I would preach caution with this combo. Based on my experience with this combo, don't dose higher than 5grams of kratom with no more than 500mg of phenibut(low dose I know but it works amazingly well with no tolerance). Take a month break before taking phenibut either on its own or in this combination to avoid tolerance.

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Good warnings about combinations and tolerance/addiction.
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Old 24-06-2012, 21:52
psychoanomaly psychoanomaly is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Well, interestingly I never remember having any problems in the past with combination. However, it's clearly an unknown at this point, and I'm not willing to take the same risks that I once did. The safety of this combination is inconclusive at best.

Also, like kratom, I have almost 2 years of experience with phenibut, and again, I initially used it a little too much. I once did it 4 times in a week, which actually caused 1 week of mild withdrawal (which was still psychological hell for me). I won't be making that mistake again. Phenibut is not very mentally addictive, and I only use it twice a month at most these days.

I chose kratom and phenibut as my substances of choice because they are legal, relatively safe, relatively mild, and produce effects which I consider to be psychologically beneficial (when take in moderation, of course). Marijuana used to my primary, but it stopped being fun so I was forced to quit.
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Old 20-08-2013, 21:44
Toad4987 Toad4987 is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Yesterday i took phenibut in the form of relax all during the day ( 1 gram total) and it did help lessen my anxiety though i still needed to take kratom around 2 am once i realized sleep was not gunna happen. Only taking 4 caps though which isnt much must of added to the phen and knocked me out until noon today. Woke up feeling very mellow yet groggy, kind of like day after using a benzo to be honest. Today i took my last dose 1 gram once i woke up and never really felt that great though i did get a good workout in today considering i took a full week off and should have had much less energy. I just took a few grams of kratom due to feeling very restless. Did i not take enough phenibut? 2 year opiate addiction in past, heavy anxiety could be problem.. Ugh i just wanted to stop taking kratom using phenibut, doesnt seem possible without more addiction and withdrawl than i already have taken on ..
  #13  
Old 31-08-2013, 02:27
ledhead91 ledhead91 is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

I took 500mgs of phenibut on top of the half tbsp of green malay and half tbsp of bali (also two ten percent beers.) It seems like a good mood lifter for a friday night.

I dont go with a higher dose of phenibut because last time I took a gram twice in one day I slept until twelve the next day and I was very angry I wasted a beautiful morning.
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Old 03-09-2013, 00:28
StygianThemis StygianThemis is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

I'm attempting a kratom detox and took around 5 grams of kratom throughout the day and two 1 gram doses of phenibut. I was really expecting something more profound than the effects it had. I just feel a bit different: light, dizzy, and tired. Although, there was a definite moment of a somewhat elated ecstasy feel however short lived it was. I did feel some brief moments of shortness of breath, but I also smoke, so I dot know if it was the combination. Phenibut was extremely underwhelming for me when compared to the risk of rapid addiction. Tis a shame.
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Old 03-09-2013, 00:41
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StygianThemis View Post
Phenibut was extremely underwhelming for me when compared to the risk of rapid addiction. Tis a shame.
Consider yourself lucky and throw away the rest.

I was lucky. Used for a month or so daily, swiftly increasing to 4 grams a day, and did an equally quick taper over about a week and had no withdrawals what-so-ever. Most aren't so lucky, and thus, I will never buy it again.

There is a current thread about a user who was tapering off kratom and began supplementing with phenibut "Just how stupid am I?", I suggest you give that a read.

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Old 06-11-2013, 21:07
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Phenibut mixed with kratom

Hey guys swim took about 1 gram of phenibut earlier to catch a little buzz while swim was waiting for his kratom to come in the mail. It has been about 3 hours since swim took that 1 gram, I was wondering if it would be alright for swim to go ahead and take his daily 5gram dose of kratom since the phenibut is doing nothing for him at the moment. Thanks.

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Please do not use SWIM https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197306

Last edited by Phenoxide; 07-11-2013 at 17:58. Reason: threads merged
  #17  
Old 06-11-2013, 21:50
Amazing Jeans Amazing Jeans is nu online
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Re: Phenibut mixed with kratom

From my experience there should be no problems at all. I have taken 12g of Kratom and then taken Phenibut many times with no problems.
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Old 07-11-2013, 00:09
Iwitchfinder Iwitchfinder is offline
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Re: Phenibut mixed with kratom

Well the effects of the phenibut kicked in about 15 mins after I posted this so I decided to just wait untill tamorrow. But i appreciate the response.
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Old 07-11-2013, 00:21
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Re: Phenibut mixed with kratom

Next time you want to mix drugs, do your research first. What if this had turned out to be a lethal combo?

Don't bother asking for advice if you know better, it's rude.

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Sensible advice on researching potential interactions first.
He had not taken the combo, on the phenibut.
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Old 02-09-2014, 18:11
KratomBound KratomBound is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Resurrecting a bit of a dead post here, but I have been considering trying this combo and I have gathered that Phenibut is not safe in large quantities and that Phenibut is very addictive and should not be used regularly. But I haven't been able to find a specific piece of info telling me the answer to this exact question so any help would be very much appreciated. Here goes: Would it be safe to mix 700-800 mg Phenibut with 5 grams Kratom(red veined strains) on a once a week basis? Risk for Phenibut addiction/wds? Also note that I take Kratom everyday and take a 30-60 mg dose of dxm every other day to help my tolerance, it seems to work for me.
  #21  
Old 02-09-2014, 20:00
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

There would be no problems mixing 700-800mg of Phenibut with 5g of Kratom, I have taken considerably more of each one together in the past.

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Old 22-04-2015, 00:16
Syd Morrison Syd Morrison is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

So I was curious as well about this Ive been making a sencha tea with Kratom phenibut and brahmi. Was just curious if I'm pushing things a little far in you guys' non professional opinion or professional opinion if you have such qualifications. I'm not asking if you think I should take it as I don't want to be breaking any rules just is this a bad chemical composition or have bad contradictions or adverse health effects. Anyway thanks

Syd Morrison added 28 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

I should probably note the dosage is relatively high for the phenibut at 9.5g and moderate dosage of Kratom at 6g and brahmi at 5g. I know this would never be considered a healthy or recommended concoction or brew but I'm curious if im being outright careless. I'm a recovering heroin addict with major depression and have gone through 8 1/2 months of electric shock therapy but still struggle with the depression and this brew seems to be the one thing keeping me afloat.

Last edited by Syd Morrison; 22-04-2015 at 00:16. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 22-04-2015, 01:30
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

The 9.5 grams of phenibut is definitely very risky. That's not relatively high, that is dangerously high.

The rest of what I'm going to say is based on my experience and what I've read, so I'm not claiming any certainty, but I have quite a bit of experience with phenibut, and I've read everything I could find about it that's in English.

The sidE effects and consequences become more and more severe and unpredictable the more you take. The recommended dosage is approximately 1.75/2 grams per day. Therefore you are pushing around 5 times the recommended amount, and it sounds like you're taking it in one sitting. I'm surprised you aren't experiencing GI distress, nausea, dizziness, extreme fatigue, or other side effects. If you continue dosing at that level it is a safe bet you will.

I guess the biggest risk is that it is well-known to be habit forming--especially as dosage increases. The worst two withdrawal effects are sleeplessness and severe rebound anxiety.

I would recommend you at least decrease your dosage--tapering slowly. Take care of yourself.
  #24  
Old 22-04-2015, 02:44
Syd Morrison Syd Morrison is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

Thanks I know I've pushed that too high I've had a little stomach issues from it but mostly the lethargic withdrawl and pressure in the head when coming off of it is the worst of it. I appreciate your input I need to learn to lower the dosage and have wash out periods or stop in general I'm just struggling to find a heathy method for managing the depression as traditional Meds havent worked
  #25  
Old 22-04-2015, 06:31
idfma idfma is offline
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Re: Mixing Kratom with Phenibut?

That is the challenge. Most of us are dealing with a lot of shit coming at us from all different directions--ain't modern life great?

If you're recovering, you're dealing with a whole lot. You didn't say how long you have been taking the phenibut, but if it's any length of time, go easy--no need to rush, but you definitely want to,ease up. That dosage is really high. If it helps you, you should figure out how to work it in--maybe just less of it.

Honestly, for my money, you're better off upping the kratom a bit (a bit!!) and reducing the phenibut as much as you can. Definitely try to get into a good, consistent washout cycle. Phenibut treats you so much much better when you do.

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