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An experiences thread for AL-LAD will be created as and when it is required.
Trivial Name: AL-LAD
Synonyms: 6-allyl-nor-LSD, N-allyl-nor-LSD
Full Chemical Name: 6-allyl-N,N-diethylergoline-8β-carboxamide
Molecular Formula: C22H27N3O
Molecular Mass: 349.5 g/mol
One of a number of LSD-related lysergamide derivatives investigated and documented by Alexander Shulgin in TiHKAL.
From Shulgin's TiHKAL, entry #1:
DOSAGE: 80–160 micrograms, orally
DURATION: 6–8 hours
QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 50μg, orally) I am aware in twenty minutes, and am into a stoned place, not too LSD like, in another hour. I would very much like to push higher, but that is not in the cards today and I must acknowledge recovery by hour eight.
(with 80μg, orally) I had a mild effect, although the doors to my repressed feelings somehow really become opened up. There was nothing transcendental here, but there were moments where I felt a conscious separation from the world about me. None of the profound meanings that I had hoped to have explained were explained.
(with 150μg, orally) I felt it in less than a quarter hour, and was shooting up past a +++ in another quarter hour. Fast. Just like LSD but without the vaguely sinister push. A little time slowing, randy, no body disturbance. Dropping at six hours and totally tired and going to sleep at twelve hours. I will repeat.
(with 150μg, orally) Simply beautiful. Erotic and music absorption after second hour. Clear thinking with superb imagery and good interpretation. Easy, gentle sleeping. Next day - serene, clear-thinking peacefulness. One of the best materials ever.
(with 160μg, orally) I took 160μg at 11 a.m. on an empty stomach and lay down to listen to a hypnotic relaxing tape, with eye shades and headphones. The onset was very gradual over two or three hours. There was some visual distortion similar to LSD, but mild. I decided that this was about as intense as it was going to get, so I lay down in the living room with the others. The experience continued to intensify over the next hour in intermittent waves. I had to verify that I was actually in a physical room rather than in the music I was hearing. There was never any fear or panic, but I chose to retreat to a private place for the next couple of hours. Soon I started to feel worse and I tried to gain some insight and relief from my negative attitude. I prayed, and I cried, and I began to feel calmer and had more positive thoughts as to how to deal with the others, but I was still afraid to go out into the group. I was afraid that my hopelessness would bother them but I eventually went back out at about the five hour point and the rest of the day was spent pleasantly and smoothly. I took 2.5 g of L-tryptophan to sleep, and I slept well, waking twice.
(with 160 μg, orally) I pretreated myself with 40 milligrams of Inderal (propranolol) 40 minutes beforehand, took the AL-LAD, and went to bed with eye-shades and ear-phones. There was a very slow onset. The effects were best described as very short bursts of loss of contact with my body, which became increasingly intense and frequent as things progressed. It became really trippy, like acid. There were no visuals with my eyes closed, but when I removed my eye-shades the floors were melting, and the wall patterns and the wood ceiling really flowed. My body felt very blob-like, and I had to get help from my sitter to get up so I could pee. I was very affected by music. There was a very long down-ramp, with physical excitation appearing to linger longer than psychic excitation. Pretty much out of it by 12 hours and I felt well the next day.
(with 200 μg, orally) This was taken on the tail end (seventh hour) of an MDMA experience. I felt it quickly, but it never got to a super level. Complicated erotic, good talking, looked pretty stoned, and yet I still had cognitive integrity.
EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: This is one of the several very potent compounds in a large series of 5-alkylated analogues of nor-LSD [mod note - this is a typo from Shulgin, the site of derivatization referred to is actually the 6' nitrogen residue]. Most of them proved to be less potent than LSD, and considerably less dramatic. The Inderal mentioned in one of the comments is a trade name for propranolol, an antihypertensive that reduces nervousness.
A comment is appropriate concerning the use of the prefix “nor,” as in the name of this material N-allyl-nor-LSD and of its immediate precursor, nor-LSD. Its exact meaning is that there is an alkylated nitrogen atom somewhere that has lost an alkyl group. The original term is from the German phrase “N-ohne-Radical” meaning N (the nitrogen) without the radical (meaning the alkyl group). The removing of the N-methyl group of LSD to form the N-H counterpart is a text book example of this usage. Unfortunately its use has slopped over to embrace the removal of an alkyl group from a heteroatom of any sort. Recently I learned of a metabolite of ibogaine that has lost a methyl group from the indolic oxygen atom (a methoxy has become a hydroxy) and the compound was called noribogaine. The correct term, to retain the use of the parent ibogaine word in its name, would have been desmethyl ibogaine. The removal of something is usually indicated with a “de-” or a “des” prefix ahead of the item that has been lost, as in deoxy (or desoxy) ribonucleic acid, DNA, which is ribonucleic acid (RNA) missing an oxygen atom.
Legal status in US: Unconfirmed. Even if not explicitly controlled at Federal level this substance may be deemed a controlled substance analogue of LSD under the Federal Analog Act under certain circumstances. Legality under state law will vary depending on the specific legislation enacted in each US state.
Legal status in UK: Unconfirmed. Strictly speaking the allyl group is an alkenyl modification. This may not be considered an N-alkyl derivative of lysergamide in which case this chemical would not be covered under the Misuse of Drugs Act.
I'm not entirely sure if this is the right place to inquire about this but; I'm curious if AL-LAD shares the same risk as ETH-LAD where it could possibly degrade into LSD at some point? If the starting point is nor-LSD, or that LSD is not required to synthesise AL-LAD, is it still possible for it to degrade or test positive for LSD at some point?
Neither ETH-LAD nor AL-LAD seem likely to degrade to LSD, as this would require dealkylation (removal of the ethyl or allyl group respectively) followed by re-methylation, which would be a rather improbable degradation route. I think you may be confusing them with ALD-52, which most certainly can degrade to LSD.
The reason this substance remains so obscure is more likely to be related to its manufacture. The method for synthesis of AL-LAD documented by Shulgin uses LSD itself as the starting point, so it'd be impossible to follow Shulgin's route without breaking international law. It's not so much that the synthesis is particularly difficult, but rather that there's little incentive for someone that has access to LSD to turn it into AL-LAD since LSD is just as active, just as marketable, and breaks just as many laws if LSD is the starting material.
AL-LAD is likely to remain one of those seldom visited compounds that appeals only to those with an interest in exotica. Unless of course some clever chemist figures out a path to AL-LAD that bypasses all the legally sensitive routes, in which case it'd an effective LSD analogue that would be ostensibly legal in many parts of the world.
Have to express awe and interest at the fact that Shulgin actually printed one of the best materials ever in the qualitative comments for this. I'd say his opinion concerning drugs was pretty valuable.
I am surprised at how little this substance is talked about.
ok my mate came into possesion of this yesterday and this is his report word for word
just a quick report . One 150ug blotter dosed bucally at 7.00pm last night. First effects felt about 8.00.very gradual build not very pushy and almost no body load i actually felt i had underdosed so about this time i chewed the blotter up and swallowed it. Glad i waited though because it just kept building and by about 9.00 i was gone but not sure about the time as it had all slowed down. Then came the ego loss i actually thought i had gone insane as i was caught in this thought loop and everything just got cartoonish. The wife said i sounded like harry potter coming out with all these made up words. It was pretty scary at the time as i have never lost it like that before must be what the 60s lucy was like. eventually i came back to reality and realised i wasnt insane and it was the loops and total ego loss. I would advise people not to go above 150ug with this compound unless very experienced with psychedelic. this is not like the nbomes but very much like lucy as far as i remember but thats been many years since that experience so thoughts slightly clouded. Also i found this compound very erotic and performed like a 17 year old again all night once i had returned from inside my head. Didnt really listen to much music till trip was winding right down so only noticed slight appreciation. Did smoke some noids at end and drifted off to sleep listening to jefferson airplane.Now that is what they really sound like its amazing the difference music can make to the trip. one other thing i got hungry too and ate a packet of cold sausage rolls and they tasted like heaven. I have only had about 3 hours sleep and woke up feeling radiant.
zombywoof added 1438 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...
Here is some more info he has passed onto me in his words i stress
I guess i have a very low tolerance for this will try 300ug next time but will not be for at least 4 weeks. But now i know what to expect i should be able to lose myself easier next time.
It was like we were both characters in a cartoon and i kept repeating some punchline.At one point i actually didnt know where i was and had been insane for years and everytime i thought i was getting back the same thought would come back and i felt i was back to square one,it was pretty scary for a while.i dont think this lasted for too long though and i was really glad it didnt. as for visuals it was quite similar and some objects did take on sinister appearances but the colours were really bright neon pinks blues and greens. Also at one point everything looked like it was made of of tiny tiles like mosaics. As for next day felt good but tired and crashed about 10 last night very early for me but i did have only 3 hours sleep that morning. Today still quite tired but no moodiness yet. A lot of fellow researchers have been dosing twice the dose that i did but i like to play it safe first time out
also i am not saying this was a bad trip as it was far from it. im really looking forward to next time and now know what to expect.
A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules, often with the assistance of unsuspecting musicians.
Last edited by zombywoof; 02-06-2013 at 14:20.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Been first few seconds he could make out that there is something wrong.....
Together with MOCLOBEMIDE.
Would look like a dinosaur warped with the most serious hallucinations
dorisano10 added 66 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...
He slowly got used ......... Already called an ambulance after he saw that everything was fine with him
dorisano10 added 9 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...
Then the fun began ...... Instance of glittering lights, colorful, accompanied by all the sounds of carnival. He realized at that moment that there are things that prevent us from experiencing the world as it is. There is a filter. But there is something beyond. And that is beyond. Love is above love. The ability to see reality for many more angles
dorisano10 added 29 Minutes and 50 Seconds later...
There are moments in life worth living to reach them, I got them. I've never been very fruitful and discerning so sharp. These compounds are indeed the finest quality. (A person who was in the future and back into the past to tell)
dorisano10 added 31 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...
Unable to return to normal. It takes time to get used to
dorisano10 added 251 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...
It was the most spiritual thing I ever did. It's the most dangerous thing I've tried on psychedelic drugs. Even acid doesn't feel that way. It's only for the extremists. It can disrupt normal person.
It could kill me.
Be careful with it
dorisano10 added 586 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...
amount taken: 750 micrograms (5 blotters of 150 mcg).
tastes strange like a piece of paper
dorisano10 added 0 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...
1 hour before 300 miligrams of moclobemide
Last edited by dorisano10; 10-06-2013 at 16:03.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
That sounds a bit much to me for a first time. Hope your friend is ok now. I do know people are taking doses this high but from being around these forums for a while i have gathered they are very experienced with tryptamines.
My friend is the also very experienced and he didnt need to go that high for a first trial. tell him to be more careful in the future please.We don't want or need any attention brought to this compound as its the best legal available at the moment.
Dont want to put a downer on it and am not criticising i just like to see people being careful and doing their research. They are not called research chemicals for nothing and these forums are for harm reduction.
you can tell me to shut up but if i help only one person thats good enough for me
Looking forward to the trip report though
Take care my friend
zombywoof added 2 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...
After you trip life opens up,
You start doing what you want to do
And you find out that the world that you once feared,
Gets what it has from you
No one can ever hurt you
But you know more than you thought you knew
And you're looking at the world
With brand new eyes,
And no one can ever spoil the view
Last edited by zombywoof; 10-06-2013 at 18:58.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Dorisano10 that was a high dose, but take what you feel comfortable with.
A friend found it very similar in end effects to the drug LSD, but he found after 2-3 hours he was cursing them (he took 300 ug), that they were shit, but it creeped up on him in the forth hour, and soon he found himself tripping strongly for some hours.
He said he thought the overall duration might have been slightly shorter than the parent compound but he could say for sure as its been a while.
Tried several times more, 450ug, very nice, clean, lsd like with slightly different duration, built up slower (for me it built up very subtly), makes the nbomes seem superficial. Very deep trips, I wont try and explain, theres no words for it really.
Try if you can find a vendor, there is at least one reliable one (prob more, but I dont know of them).
I have no definite proof that this is al-lad but maybe would be willing to a half to a lab, to know exactly what it is if some one could give me somewhere that would test it at not too an expensive price.
Come-up is smooth, no paranoid. Minimal body load. Warping visiuals, Not as many colours and fractals appearing like the nbomes. Music appreciation better than the nbomes. Head space is large. not recommended to trip alone on this stuff. Outdoors or with friends. It becomes frustrating if are stuck in one place, it feels like your brain had a traffic jam of thoughts inside.
Aside from body load, and sometimes overheating/feeling of dehydration. This feels like a very safe drug.
I dosed 750ug a few days ago. It nearly destroyed me. I'm pretty sure I spent most of the trip writhing around in emotional agony, at what I had been doing to my family and friends the past couple of years, due to benzodiazepine, and general drug abuse. Needless to say I flushed everything away the next day, after sobbing for a while. Music appreciation is greatly enhanced, visuals are so warped It was hard to make out certain objects as fractal patterns would form everywhere. I would also get the usual universal revelations that would last for a fraction of a second, and then disappear .
I feel as if a weight is lifted. Hopefully this experience will help turn my life in a better direction, but as far as drugs go, I guess I'm done for a little while.
Also to add some information about degradation - I've had a single batch in storage for ~8-10 weeks and noticed none at all.
Without a doubt, I could only hope to see this come around more often. Yet I don't. When it picks up in knowledge and popularity, legislation happens. Let's keep this one on the DL.
It seems promising and we have had other members of great repute show their love for it. It is honestly a great looking substance with some promise. I plan to try it for sure.
As we all know, LSD might be ridden in substitutes when sold. Might this be the one substitute that isn't worth complaining over? In a theoretical scenario, would this be the blotter that tricks the test kits and the person? An experienced acid user knows what he is getting somewhat upon initial testing. Yet could this be the one to trick em' all? Mind you, the real McCoy is the only honest thing worth raving about, but we can't discount what value this has. The only reason why I point this out is because the desire for one to try LSD has become, in a sense, a fools quest. They only find something else.
Anyone have something to say about the near similarities in trip quality versus this and honest-truth LSD? I would like someone that has confirmed both substances via an Erlich or Mecke reagent kit. If possible. This would be an awesome thing to juxtapose. There is no classing the NBOMe series against LSD for the most part, but this may be the one research chemical with the potential to sit on the throne with it. Any other drug is the same as having Hamburgers compared to Tacos. Sure, same meat... way different... Time to compare something similar.
I can only assume what everyone else is thinking: if LSD is an impossible feat to gather without it being smoke in mirrors, this might just be, with righteous sources, the only way to get "close enough" to the godhead and tune in and drop out. It may not be the real thing, and real acid is a true experience worth having, but Even if this is "only close enough," it may just be good enough.
Noting one thing... please, everyone looking to research this, get some test kits. False marketing is just as easy on a vendor webpage as it is at a festival from a burnout. This could always be another annoying Phenethylamine dressed up with some talk-up and some cool words.
Last edited by SpatialReason; 11-09-2013 at 15:50.