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*The following two page journal was written years ago. It debugs the FEARS and confusions associated with coming off of a long-term, HIGH dose habit of Methadone, in a way that the OP was able to understand himself. Before it took place the OP did truly believe it to be an impossible task to say the least:
(Note that some parts of the journal(s) were written in different narrative points of view).
Hey all. So I had an Ibogaine trip at home to try and get me off of my Methadone. I was at 45mgs a day.
I lasted until day 3, but things just seemed to get worse and worse and I ended up cracking. Time literally stood still and I had to literally hide my clocks. I was so sick that I couldn't really even move to get myself water or food, and I had noone to really take care of me. my mind wouldn't shut up either, back and forth; so damn exausting!! I didn't sleep for the whole 3 days either, and I think the sleeping thing was the worst part.
The good news though is when I went back on my Methadone (yesterday), I only went back to 20mgs, instead of the 45mgs. Before now, I've never been able to make it past 40mgs, so I'm really happy to be at 20mgs after such a short amount of time.
After really feeling all of my feelings again though while I was in that cold-turkey place it was like being reborn in a metaphorical way. My 5 year addiction to Opiates had erased my memory of those lovely feelings and how amazing and genuine they really are. I had no idea feelings are so good!! It's like I had it perfect before I went into drugs and didn't even know it.. sort of like my memory was taken over or erased by someone else during my active addiction...
So now I want all of my feelings back really badly and out of this crazy Methadone maize. But I need some support from people who have been there... There's too many horror stories out there!
Right now at 20mg, things obviously aren't as bad as they were when I jumped off cold-turkey, but it seems as if I'm in a mild withdrawal a lot of the time which annoys the shit out of me!
I've also become a massive insomniac and still wasn't able to sleep until this afternoon (when I finally got 4 hours of sleep for the first time in 4 days). Now though I'm up after my nap and my 20mg dose is starting to poop out on me and it looks like I'm gonna be up all night again .
My dose seems to poop out on me after like 12 hours now, where before it was more at the 24 hour mark. But I keep telling myself that it probably needs to build up in my system because of the Ibogaine I took and the 3 days that I was off of my Methadone.
I guess I just need to get this stuff off my chest. I'm in pain.
Does anyone know if I will eventually adjust to being on 20mgs of Methadone??
Also is there any tips you guys can give me to make this crap more bearable.
You will need some days to adjust to your 20 mgs dose.
this will take about a week until there's no change anymore in the amount of the done that is in your system.
Actually, through the long half-life time of the 'done, a 20 mg daily dose means that you have 25 to 30 mgs in the system.
I congratulate you to this big achievement,- that on first day you'll still feel a bit uncomfortable is only natural.. give your body the time to get onto the steady dose and keep your mind busy to have the thoughts about w/d and whether it all will go well get out of your head.
Hopefully I am able to stay positive. It keeps going back and forth if u know what I mean, which annoys the shit out of me. At least I'm not stuck in that moment of cold-turkey though right now. I don't understand how people quit high doses of Methadone cold-turkey... I definitely envy them or in the very least give them some sort of props, Methadone's a bruutal drug to have to live on...
If I had access to a full-time nurse and some good comfort meds than maybe it would be more possible to jump, but without some outside help it's next to impossible IMO. That's just my thoughts though.
Does anyone know of anything that can knock me out like an elephant? I've tried large amounts of Zopiclone combined with Gravol and Melatonin, but have still been up for 4 days goin on 5 now. I was able to have a cat nap for 4 hours earlier in the day before my dose pooped out on me, but now Im stuck up all night again .
The insomnia's definitely the worst part for me. It makes matters so much worse.
Hopefully I am able to stay positive. It keeps going back and forth if u no what I mean which annoys the shit out of me.
Does anyone know of anything that can knock me out. I've tried large amounts of zopiclone combined with gravol and melatonin but have still been up for 4 days goin on 5. I was able to sleep for 4 hours earlier in the day before my dose pooped out on me, but now Im stuck up all night again.
The insomnia's definitely the worst part for me.
valerian root is suppose to help with sleep and anxiety. it might be worth checking out. gaba suppliments may be another alternative, as they work on the same receptors as xanax, if i remember correctly. gaba can be found in herbal blends that promote sleep or relaxation, or just sold in capsules as gaba. if you arent staying well hydrated, perhaps forcing yourself to drink more water than usual can help flush out your body so it can heal itself faster, especially if methadone is water soluble. you might not only get out of withdrawal faster, but feel better during the process.
Thanks for the advice Molly. I have a bunch of valerian laying around from when I used to use it way back in the day actually.
I am prescribed Clonazepam for my anxiety now though, which effects my gaba system, so unfortunately the valerian doesn't effect me anymore whatsoever, as I'm desensitized to gaba affecting agents now.
It's a good suggestion though. Valerian combined with Melatonin used to work great for me for sleep before I got on my anti-anxiety medication. Now though Valerian doesn't touch me whatsoever.
One of my friends recommended taking 150mgs of Dipenhydramine, so I might try that if it's safe to mix with my Methadone?...
He said that's what worked for him back when he was still kicking his Methadone habit, so hopefully that would work for me. I just have to buy some now I guess.
My fear is that if I continue to not sleep though It'll negatively effect my health in some sort of way. My brain always hurts in some way or another from the lack of sleep and all of the stress .
I guess I might as well make this thread my log for my Methadone detox...
Thanks for being here ppl! I really appreciate it.
The thing to focus on here is that in a few days youve more than halved your methadone dose which is quite an achievment and a big step in the right direction, when you stabalize on the 20mg you can either try again or try reducing gradually and you will deffinatly get used to the 20mg dose.
Not being able to sleep and your mind racing are all part of the withdrawals, when i quit methadone i was geared up for the physical pain but underestimated the mental side of withdrawal but i dont think not sleeping will cause you any heath problems because its only short term.
If large amounts of zopiclone arent working i dont think valerian root will do anything and drinking water wont make the withdrawals end sooner although water is good for keeping hydrated during detox, the only thing that bought any releif for me was hot baths id take diazepam and zopiclone then soak in the bath, when i got out id go to bed and try to sleep, it was the only time i wouldnt be aching too much and could stay still long enough to fall asleep.
How long you been on the methadone? What dose did you start on?
diphenhydramine can help, what I see is that a dose of 150 mg could be too high, usually dph tablets come in 50 mgs, so you might wanna try one or one and a half first. An hour and a half after ingestion you should have effects, if you don't you can put another 50 to 75 mg on top of it.
What hasw been helping me always during w/d is cannabis. and when I say cannabis I mean hashish, not marijuana. If you tolerate cannabis without anxiety it might help you.
As you say you cant take valerian, which is my absolute favourite, there are other plants that can help: hops, passion flower, even german chamomilla. Do you know or assume that valerian doesnt help?
other possibilities are working out, taking walks before going to bed, sleeping in quiet rooms - or use low volume 'meditation music' or chiilly electronic sounds.
Audio books can help, hot ( >40░C, only if you have no cardiovascular problems) baths, sauna.
What can take the thoughts from circling and brainfucking is excessively masturbating.
It will only be a few days until you will be readjusted. keep on keeping on.
Thanks for all the helpful replies everyone. I appreciate it.
I finally ended up sleeping yesterday. I slept little cat naps in the day and when the nighttime came I took 150mgs of dipenhydramine. It did feel like a little too high of a dose because it totally weighed my body down, but it also seemed to completely relax my body in a sort of good feeling way. I was having mild hallucenations from the high dose of sleeping pills while I was awake though and than I just passed out cold eventually for the whole night. So I finally did catch up on my sleep at least .
The thing I didn't like about the dipenhydramine though is that when I woke up I was in really bad withdrawal (a lot more worse than usual). It seemed to use some of my Methadone up. And I also noticed that when I first took it it did make my nighttime mild withdrawal symptoms go away while I was on it, which is part of the reason why I felt so relaxed I guess. I think it may have potentiated my dose of Methadone, but also used some of it up which wasn't good in the end. But I just felt like I needed sleep, you know?
I'm just happy I finally slept .
I got the Doctor at my clinic to presribe me Seroquel for sleeping, so I am going to try that tonight and see if it helps. When I was in the hospital and coming off of an aprox. 200mg-250mg oxy habit (cold turkey), I remember them giving me a huge dose of Seroquel and it always seemed to knock me out like an elephant (even in withdrawals), so I'm hoping it will help me now (it was a HUGE dose though back than). I'm also hoping it will help with some of the racing thoughts. I also hope it won't use some of my dose up like the dipendhydramine seemed to, but we'll have to see I guess.
I started Methadone about 3 years ago and used to be at 90mgs a day at my highest point.
And I did try using cannabis while I was going cold for that 3 day period, but it only made things worse for me in the end, as I would burn out and was not able to sleep off the burn out either. It also does cause a lot of anxiety for me as well and counteracts my anxiety meds (especially afterwards).
I was a heavy cigarette smoker 6 days ago as well (aprox. a pack a day) before the Ibogaine. And I stopped that cold-turkey as well at the same time. After the Ibogaine I tried a tiny piece of nicotine gum and it also only seemd to make things worse. Since than I have been really turned off by drugs and I threw away all of the nicotine and cannabis I had laying around. I am hoping to do this naturally, as I know "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger".
The cravings do come and go for cigarettes though (especially when things are really rough), but I am just trying to keep positive, and I hope to God that I am able to continue doing so.
For the last 3 days I had to use my takehomes and I had to half the dose by myself, eyeballing it. So I wasn't ever sure if I was actually taking exactly 20mgs or not. But luckily today I got an actual 20mg dose from my clinic and got my new takehomes (all at 20mgs a day), so now I know for sure that I am on 20mgs .
I guess I am just trying to count my blessings, as there's always a downside and an upside it seems.
Sometimes I feel like I'm being too hard on myself internally, and I try to tell myself that I am already going through enough externally, through natural consequenses (WDs)... but I guess this is all part of recovery eh??
I feel like I am having to learn how to do everything again a lot of the time to (especially in the mornings when I am really sick). It's really hard because part of me knows the things that I once knew, but than another part of me has to learn how to do them all over again. Like I'm a new born or something. Kinda just feels like a lot of weight on my shoulders if you know what I mean... just knowing how much things you have to re-learn.
I am also taking a Multi-vitamin/mineral on a daily basis + an Omega 3 supplement and consuming electrolytes through the form of gatorade. The electrolytes seem to seriously help big time and make me feel sort of glowing at times.
Overall, I am just glad to have as much of my feelings back as I do right now. Part of me is bummed that I don't have all of my feelings back like I did when I went cold-turkey for those 3 days, but I keep trying to remind myself to stop being so hard on myself (if that makes sense), and that Methadone is a big drug that requires to be weaned down from for most. As well as that my chances at succeeding are a lot greater if I wean down slowly.
I guess the fact that I was on 45mgs 6 days ago and am now on 20mgs is a big accomplishment in itself, and I guess I should be patting myself on the back for that. I sometimes wonder if it is the withdrawals making me think negatively at times? Sort of like an uncontrollable reflex you know?
My Doctor also offered me Clonidine and said that if I take it at nightime it may help me sleep. But because it is a blood pressure medication I am sort of scared of it, or unsure if I should take it or not. I told him I would try the Seroquel first and let him know if I wanted to try the Clonidine when I see him or talk to him next.
I have heard it is pretty helpful for Opiate withdrawals, but I am unsure if I should be taking it at 20mgs a day. I always thought that Clonidine is presrcibed to Methadone addicts once they get to the lower doses, like below 20??
Does anyone have any experience with using Clonidine for Opiate withdrawal that they can share?
Anyways thanks for listening.
natey7 added 1237 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...
So I tried the Seroquel yesterday and it did work to help me sleep, but I don't think the side-effects are worth it. I ended up flushing them this morning. It doesn't interact good with Methadone. I figure I'll just have to tough it out and stick with OTC sleeping aids when needed.
The Seroquel made me feel like a zombie and dulled the very emotions that I was happy to have back in the first place. Even now, the morning after, I'm still not feeling back to how I was feeling before the Seroquel. It was only 50mgs too which is a low dose and yet it still made me feel like shit. It's a very ugly drug IMO. I hate the way it makes me feel (especially that feeling that lingers the next day... yuck!!!), and I'm sure others can relate to that.
It also didn't work as good as the 150mgs of Dipenhydramine either, so what's the point in using it with all those negatives in there, you know??
Last edited by natey7; 09-12-2014 at 21:56.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Dude you are pushing it to the limit with withdrawing nocotine on top.
Your reduction in this short time really is a big accomplishment, when you dont pat yourself on the shoulder it is me going to do it for you.
*Pat, Pat, Pat* "there, there"
Your way is a good one and it shows your determination to become drug free. You please have an eye on your cravings, do you have someone to telephone when cravings get hard at weird times of day/night?
I have found this very useful for myself...
I don't have a sponsoror anything, but I try and keep myself busy with things that feel good and are healthy for me. The natural stuff basically.
I have a friend who recently kicked the exact same kind of habit a while ago, and I try to stay positive with him if I can. I don't really like being a downer if you know what I mean (we're on different levels).
Other than that all of my bridges were burnt when I was stuck using the damn Oxys and all that so that's a hardship, but I mean we're not meant to sulk about it, we're meant to make new friends, meet new people, etc.
I still think it's best to count my blessings.
I started to split my dose in half yesterday as well after talking to my new clinic about it (so 10mgs in the morning and than 10mgs in the later part of the day). This is because it's not lasting as long for me anymore at this dose and had been causing me to have way too much insomnia when I would just take it all at once every 24 hours (it was actually pooping out on me after 12 hours, which is just stupid really). So I'm pretty damn happy about the new split ... And luckily my clinic said that they are behind me on that as well, so that's pretty cool. I just hope it's not too much trouble for them to do, especially with certain doses.
They also said the next time I come in to get my carries they will have them all split up for me instead. So I wont have to go through all the trouble of eye-balling it myself, and never actually knowing if Im splitting it right in half.. so I'm really happy about that too, as I have been needing a split dose for ages.
Yesterday was pretty hard waiting for that second half of my dose though, because it was the first day having to do it, but I did it anyways and waited until I pretty much could. The cigarette cravings while I was waiting were pretty brutal for me.
I'm trying to take each half a little bit later each day basically, and not overload my body, until I get to the time when my clinic opens at least, and the second half 8 hours later (which is how long the clinics open for me).... I remember last week when I had to pick up my first set of carries from this new clinic that I just started at, I literally almost broke down in tears while I was trying to get there because I was so damn sick, that catching and finding all the bus's and different unfamiliar bus stops and such were all literally that hard for me to do, it was nutz. Getting home was pretty rediculous too until it finally kicked in. So I'm really trying to avoid that mess from happening all over again, because I found that just straight rediculous and hard on me!!! LOL.
Today isn't as hard waiting for the other half of my dose because it's not the first day anymore, but it still can be hard if I run out of things to do...
I find I always have to be changing things.. Like I can't keep doing one thing for too long, otherwise I just get way too stressed out for some reason... I don't know if this is because of the Nicotine withdrawals or the Methadone withdrawals/adjustment, but overall I'm just trying to stay positive and have faith in my higher power.
Right now I'm still waiting to get my second half of my dose as I write this, and I was actually having a bit of a hard time before I came onto DF tbh. Writing all this actually kind of is helping quite a bit though with those cravings now that I really think about it... It's really theraputic to be able to just let it all out, you know what I mean? DF can be a really great place when it comes to that.
It's funny that you mentioned about the cravings though BBW, because I have been having crazy cigarette cravings all morning while I've been waiting for my second half of my dose, and something inside just told me to go on DF. So that's pretty cool I guess.
Yesterday the same thing happened while I was stuck waiting... the cigarette cravings were extremely fierce on me. But than once I got my second dose in me things actually ended up pretty awesome for me and the cigarette cravings pretty much went away ...
I ended up chillin with that friend that I was talking about yesterday to and actually had a pretty decent time, so that was pretty good. It reminded me how fun it actually is to chill with a friend when you both have feelings and both aren't getting high (a good influence)... It was also cool to see how different he looks now that he's clean and sober. I was happy for him.
I guess it's just a lot of ups and downs right now overall. But I keep trying to remind myself of the rewards and stay positive.
It would be a good idea now that you mention it though to get myself a sponsor, which I guess would include going to meetings. I may have to try that, as I would most likely benefit from that.
I'm still waiting for the weather here to get better though. Than I can actually start going outside as well and start enjoying the sun again. That part I'm super excited for.
I want to actually take my bike out, skateboard, rollerblade, play basketball, all that this summer, you know?...
I wasn't able to ever do those things and enjoy them while I was stuck on the higher doses of Methadone. It really sucked. It was so damn depressing being on the higher doses of Methadrone now that I think back.
I guess if I can find the energy I might check out a meeting hopefully when the weather clears up and see what happens.
I've been eating a shit load too which seems to help (which I never used to do). I haven't been gaining any weight though unfortunately... because of my fast metabolism I guess? (I feel so skinny and want to gain muscle). Another thing I want to do is hit the gym, but it's sort of hard right now (even though I have a bow flex downstairs)... I'm trying to stay away from stressful activities as they seem to bring upon cigarette cravings for me atm. I know excersising would be good for my endorphin system though, but I'm also afraid that it would use up some of my Methadone at this point...
Each day seems to be getting a bit better though I think, in a way I guess... I guess I'm still adjusting from that big drop... It seems like its been such a long time to me, but it's only been 8 days I think lol, same as for the cigs.
It seems like I've been realising a lot each day though since dropping to 20mgs, and thinking about a lot of new stuff that I had totally forgotten about. I find that part pretty cool as well, but it can also get stressful at times or eventually give me a headache from all of the thoughts.
I'm really excited for later today though (after I get my full dose in me). The split-dose really seems to help with my fast metabolism .
My clinic recommended to me that I stay on the 20mgs for another two weeks at least because of how big of a drop it was, so I'm thinkin I should listen to them as they seem to know what's best, and seem to want to help, which is cool. I'm sick of having to learn the hard way by now as well, you know?
I'm trying to keep "Faith,Hope and Love" close by all in all, which seems to help a lot.
But I think having a sponsor or somebody to talk to when I get cravings or need advise would definitely be a good idea.
Thanks for the support btw BBW. I really do appreciate it. It means a lot.
natey7 added 1304 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...
It's weird, I was all excited to take my second half of my dose yesterday, but when I took it, the second part of the day ended up being worse than the first :S. I guess because I had more feelings when I only had the first half of my dose in me?
Nicotine's soo ridiculous too. The withdrawals are nothing, but the cravings are such a bitch. It makes me feel like I always have to be doing something pleasurable, when all I desire is to be content with my life already.
What a long fucking process. I know drugs are never worth it in the end, so yeah... But still you know, I think I deserve to bitch it all out for some reason right now :P. So whoever's reading, get used to it!! Lol. I've pretty much made this place a sort of journal or "progress log" of sorts.. Some days may be good but some days may be bad.
Just when I thought things were getting better yesterday to, I ended up getting hit with crap again in my evening but basically just had to just go through it.
Up, down, up down, up down. Fucking rediculous.
All I want is to get my life back. AKA The light ~
Last edited by natey7; 09-12-2014 at 22:05.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
These ups and downs is the normal way to be...
Its only you're not yet used to it and it needs a bit of time you will see it as normal.
I am glad that you splitting the done helps some, eight hours is a bit on the short side when you split into two... Twelve hrs would be optimal, with the second dose about two hours before you are planning to sleep, to have the done peak inside your system when you need to have the thoughts and feelings slow down...
With the cigarette cravings - those are wild, even if I have a low methadone level for one reason or another cravings are never that bad as I do experience them when my tobacco pouch is empty on the mid of night.
Take the advice pf your clinic to reduce slowly, it doesnt matter to be off as soon as possible, what matters is that the sobriery can be kept. The slower the better.
Meetings might be something to look into. Theres people who swear they get helped and others that cant connect.
Find it out.
Thanks BBW. I'll try and keep that in mind. I find it hard to wait for that second dose though when I'm going as crazy as I am today. I don't know what happened :S. My head won't stop hurting either for some reason and advil, aleve or tylenol won't do shit.
This morning is shitty as hell for some reason too and I don't know why. Meanwhile yesterday morning was the complete opposite. It's driving me nutz and I feel like I need a change. I'm getting bored of everything that I've been doing. My stomache's always full from all the eating and I always feel a need for pleasure for some reason. These stupid ass cigarettes. Is this why they say it's more addicting than Heroin on the packs?? Or is it just because I'm going through what I'm going through? What a confusing mystery...
it will be good if you and i hook up IMO as im on 10 and have been waiting for it to get better and for me to get used to it before i reduce- but it didnt get better (only slightly) and i got fed up with the withdrawals and i went up to 15.
i think....i have a hunch....that this reduction route just limits the end withdrawals- it will come to us in the end.
im also thinking this game is psychological largely. once your mind flips or time stands still as you put it- then you can find yourself in the darkest of places.
i think you should wait for a while to get used to 20.....and you will start sleeping better and then get some momentum and reduce further
people have no idea how hard this is- im done wiith the NA forum and hope to get some realism on here. i too would like to talk to people who have done it.
Hey rosielee. Good job on getting this far. It's not an easy task at all.
Quitting cigarettes at the same time just made it all that much worse for me and brought on severe cravings for every other drug that I have ever done before whenever I got stressed (which was often as shit).
I finally caved in today and smoked a cigarette though and so far I feel a hell of a lot better. But I know if I smoke too often it will just make things worse.
My mood is a hell of a lot better though at least. I don't need some stupid ass cigarettes making this harder than it already has to be you know?
It's crazy how much not smoking was pissing me off and making all the ugly sides come right out of me. Fucking things should not be legal to begin with. But it is how it is I guess right?
I don't know about the adjusting to a dose thing. I think you may just need some time. At least I hope so. It also could depend on the person though. Like I thought I was going through Methadone withdrawals here at 20mgs, but once I had that cig all of my bad feelings went away. Those stupid cigarette withdrawals were like never ending!!
The thing is though I have read experiences of people who jumped off at 5mgs of Methadone and couldn't even move from the withdrawals...
And than there's an old friend of mine. He weaned down slowly to .5mgs a day and jumped from there. Once he jumped he was at least able to move and get stuff like food and water for himself apparently, and said it actually wasn't that bad. So I think weaning down to a super low dose like that could make a big difference overall in how the end result is.
So I think as much of a bitch as it is to wean down, it's worth it in the end if you can get yourself to 1mg a day or better yet .5mgs a day before you actually kick. And at that point get all the natural and non-harmful comfort meds that you can get IMO and have them close by.
I found that other drugs only made it worse though. Weed would make me paranoid as hell, angry afterwards and burnt out. Alcohol would lower my inhibitions too much and give me a nasty hangover, etc.. I'm sure harder drugs like Cocaine and shit would make it even worse too from the brutal crash in the end... Every drug is an impossible equation basically IMO.
It's like I had to quit it all at once basically (was never a big drinker anyways though). Like it could have been a lot easier I'm sure at times if I didn't decide to cold-turkey my cigarette habit at the same time, but because of the Ibogaine the nicotine withdrawals didn't even hit until like day 7 and after, and from there they just got worse..
I tried to keep doing the natural stuff like eat food, watch shows that made me laugh the pain out, listen to music, etc.. but over these last 9 days I started to get sicker and sicker of doing those things, and than by today they began not being enough for me (moderation is important), which just made all that natural stuff not as pleasurable or rewarding for me as they were when I cold-turkey'd the Methadone for those 3 days (keep in mind it was from a huge dose of Methadone). So that also ended up making made matters worse.
But yeah, I made the decision to go back to cigarettes today and basically cracked, and hopefully I am able to not smoke as much of them, as the more I smoke the less effective they will be and the worse they will be for my being and health. I'm not rich right now either and can't afford to smoke a fuck load either so it's a pretty pointless addiction IMO.
It did help though when I finally fed that nicotine monster and made me realise more than ever how much of what I was going through was all from the damn nicotine withdrawals.
All in all, there's only so much a person can handle at once IMO, you know what I mean? And that's what happened to me today. My body screamed ENOUGH!!! That's why I think all of us need to take it easy on ourselves, and if you're trying to wean down on Methadone I think your best shot is to go as slow as possible.
If it wasn't cigarettes though it would have been alcohol for me. And for me, alcohol leads to VERY bad things usually (I ain't just talking stupid actions either ). Hell if I got drunk today I probably would have ended up smoking cigarettes anyways to boot, and than I'd have the alcohol hangover to get over afterwards on top of it all (alcohol gives me extremely bad hangovers for some reason to, even at low doses; hangovers that literally last 4 days!! It sucks). The Methadone and my metabolism seem to contribute to this weird side effect of this different kind of hangover.
Right now I just want to get this Methadone monster off of my back and go from there, but only time sha'll tell if that is possible for me. One step at a time right?? I'm sure it would be different if I was locked up obviously.
It is well known that the last 20mgs is the worst though for many, which is a scary thought for me. But if you've had to kick a monster Opiate habit before cold-turkey, than I'm sure you know how much more intense the withdrawals can be (even if they are shorter). I mean, whenever I tried to kick Heroin or Oxys for example, it would NEVER be possible for me to do on my own or stay clean afterwards... The addiction was just that strong, no matter what I did or who I was with.
But lots of people have successfuly kicked Methadone (if actually weaned down properly before the final jump), you know?
It is natural or not unheard of to go back up a few mgs sometimes like you did and than try again rosielee, and I have friends who have done the same thing and are now clean and sober from Methadone (it all depends on the individual).
If you ever need to talk though rosielee just shoot me a message. Kicking any Opiate or Opioid is not an easy task.
Last edited by natey7; 09-12-2014 at 22:14.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Be careful of seroquel as I was put on that and it made me pile on the pounds. It is prescribed for anxiety disorders but it's actually an anti psychotic drug. Just wanted to alert you to the very common side effect of weight gain.
I also have dreadful problems sleeping after coming off of codeine. Zoplicone doesn't touch the sides but I am told sleep gets easier given time, although I am starting to resemble the living dead!!
Yeah, I hated the side-effects from the Seroquel myself the first time I tried it (high doses are soo brutal on the body).
I personally don't find Seroquel to be worth all the side-effects whatsoever IMO (even at the low doses).
I was just lookin for some sleep at the time basically... wasn't looking to become some zombie all over again though you know? Totally not worth it.
I think I'm going to ask for Clonidine the next time I'm at my clinic because I was told that sometimes Clonidine can help you sleep if you take it in the evening. Worth a shot I guess..
The Dipenhydramine stuff seems to make my dose run out faster unfortunately. I may just have to stay up if I have to until Melatonin becomes effective for me again, and my tolerance to sleeping medication lowers, as I'm sick of having my dose drained out of me faster than neccessary. Melatonin never seemed to do that for me when I used to use it so...
The Zopiclone I used to take is what screwed up my sleeping ability to begin with unfortunately (back than I wasn't splitting my dose). Now Zoplicone is worthless to me unfortunately and I don't use it anymore. It also effects the gaba receptors.
But hey, shit happens. We just gotta try our best to roll with the punches I guess...
been reading your story and what your going through, which I can completely relate to. I was on methadone for 6 years, first at around 120 mg, then worked my way down to 60 and remained there for a year.
Moved to florida this past december, and I no longer had insurance coverage. So the reality of having to pay $100 a week for methadone maintanence was horrific. I slowly tapered down 5 mg per week from 60. At around 10mg I began dealing with withdrawels. I am now day 15 I think with no methadone and physically Im finally feeling relief, but mentally..im drained. But I must say I do feel better.
You can do it buddy, I have always been very sensitive to even the simplest sensation of w/d's..basically a big baby...somehow I did it. My clinical Dr. prescribed me Clonidine and baclofen, along with some other stuff, but mainly the clonidine will be a great help to anxiety, cold sweats, and it drys your mouth up and makes you tired. Also there will be good and bad days, but each passing day you will get better, believe it or not my friend. I notice you are taking some medication that can draw out your suffering and long story short, make your life much worse. I must admit, I did not read every word from every thread, but I got the short-story version of your situation.
If you have the abillity to do a verrrrry slllooooooww taper, assuming you are DONE with the Ibogaine ..and you are just going to kick methadone, you could potentially avoid the worst days that are promised after jumping off methadone by doing a slow taper like...-1 mg every week once at 20mg. Every other week would be even more ideal. BUT if you are not feeling good on 20 mg...you need to get used to that dose before the real taper begins...
I just did 5 mg a week until i jumped off at 5mg...and I still suffered. I could not continue paying $100 a week so I had to jump as quick as possible, which took me 3 months. If you got the time, hey man you can do it RIGHT and save yourself alot of pain. It still wont be easy, but still a breeze compared to what I went and am still going through. God bless you, and best of luck on your journey my friend, because you are NOT alone.
Last edited by Smeg; 11-12-2014 at 06:03.
Reason: paragraphing and line spacing for ease of reading.
And I will try (hopefully). The worst for me is the mornings right now because I take half of my dose at a time. I am usually only able to wait 6-8 hours after that first half (10mgs) until I eventually crack and take the next half, but every day I have been trying to take each of my halfs one hour later.
And yes I am on Medication as well. What I am on right now is just stuff for my anxiety disorder. 2mgs of Clonazepam a day in total to be exact (or .5mgs every 4 hours four times a day). This helps for the anxiety of things all depending on how you look at it really.
I know the slower the better, but sometimes my body just wants this over with already you know?? I keep thinking I wish I could just jump off now at 20mgs a day and get this over with, but obviously it isn't that simple.
Today I managed to take my first half of my dose (10mgs) at 8am (an hour later than yesterday). The whole morning was a bitch for me though, it sucks. Until finally I got to take my second dose at 2pm (which was also an hour later than when I took the rest of my dose yesterday).
I just am not a fan of the ups and downs, especially when it continues CONSTANTLY you know? But I guess I better get used to it at this point if I wanna eventually be off.
And I can really relate when you said you are a big baby to pain. Honestly, who loves pain though?
Sure I may get used to the downs sometimes, but than I have an up moment or a cigarette for example, and on one side it helps, but on the other side it seems to make me weaker for a bit until I adjust to the down again. It's so twisted you know?
I want to try the Clonidine, but everyone says it makes you sleepy right? Well the thing is, the worst part of the day for me seems to be the first 6-8 hours, or the morning like I was saying above (before I get the rest of my dose in me). So I was thinking of taking the Clonidine in the morings to make the wait easier. I'm not really sure the best way to go around taking it though, as I have never tried Clonidine before and have no clue what to expect really...
Is it supposed to be taken in the evening? Or does it not really matter?
The next wean I do which will be probably be starting next Thrusday according to my clinic (not this coming one but next), I think I am going to go down by 2mgs to 18mgs of Methadone a day and go from there, but I haven't fully decided yet. Part of me is thinking I should go down by more since I was able to go from 45-20mgs, but overall I just have to see what the Doctor thinks first. I may be getting ahead of myself.
I know it's the actual percentage of the dose that's taken away that makes the difference, and not really the actual number in mgs.
It is a constant battle for me a lot of the time though, but at least I get little breathers here and there I guess.
All the stress always seems to give me headaches though, and I barely ever have energy anymore to do things, which makes it all that much worse because time goes slower...
I am happy to be at 20mgs right now at least though, as I honestly thought I'd never be able to get any lower than 40mgs for soo damn long. I was always so scared of taking that step you know?
It seems as though a lot of it was just mental or emotional for me though back than. And I don't know if it was the Ibogaine or just time that changed my way of thinking and helped me get to where I am today, but I am thankful for that today.
Today I was watching a show and one of the younger characters had their heart broken for the first time. The parents had to explain to her that sometimes "you just have to go through the pain", and this really got me thinking. I think there's a lot of truth to that message.
I think I should start trying to suck it up more you know and focus more on my future rather than the now (easier said than done). Not that I don't enjoy bitching and venting things out. But than at the same time when I do that, reading my negative thoughts can sometimes just make me feel even worse.
Addiction is soo complicated.
Overall though, we all have the abiliity to use our own will power, it's just a mattter of choosing to do so IMO.
OnTheStrength I hope you keep it up. You sound like you're over the hump (the first 14 days). That's really amazing!! Pat yourself on the back for that!!!
And thanks again for all the support everyone. I really do appreciate it.
And sorry if I have been coming off as a downer lately... Maybe I'm just not as adjusted to that decrease that I did 10 days ago from today as I thought I was...
When I used to wean down smaller amounts (like 5mgs at a time from the higher doses for example), I would usually adjust in 5 days or so and than all would be good. But I'm guessing because of the fact that I went straight from 45-20mgs, it's probably gonna take a lot longer to fully adjust??... I just wonder how much longer.
thanks for this big update full of fresh ideas of you.
It is becoming fun to read your posts. when you feel inside the waqy you express yourself you have found a good part of your original motivatability back and begin to live with Fully drawn in breaths.
What I don't understand is why you feel like you had to apologise to us for coming over as a downer, - first you didn't , not at all, and second, hell, this is YOUR recovery thread here and you can say everything you feel like on your own thread - as long as it isnt illegal or flaming..
Thanks BBW. I was going through some shit at the time I guess, that's for sure. But hell, when am I not going through something right now? Lol
So as some of you may or may not know, I started smoking cigarettes again 3 days ago after cracking, so to speak.
Well here I am on day 3 regretting going back to those nasty ass cancer sticks after only 3 days in. Cravings are a lot stronger than they were before when I had stopped for those 9 days cold-turkey thanks to the Ibogaine I guess...
For the last 3 days and especially right now on day 3, I feel like I'm always sick or something now that I've been smoking. My nose is always stuffed and my throat feels like it has strep throat most of the time. My reflection has completely changed in only three days with maybe 8 cigarettes a day too!! I was starting to look a lot better than after the drop to 20mgs too, before I relapsed on the cigarettes. But I guess I thought at the time that it would help with what I'm going through, you know?
I guess I was so numb on the higher doses of Methadone that I never really felt all the harm that the smoking was doing to my body and mind. Now it just feels nasty to me and not worth it, yet my addict is still craving a cancer stick as I write this. Isn't that stupid??
The cigarettes obviously stopped working very fast. Only the first day was good, with the first smoke being the only one that really felt good as always.
So the day after that I figured I'd grab some Pot as things started to feel even worse and I started to get even more pissed in-between cigarettes!! Suprise suprise eh? Seems as if it acted as a sort of gateway drug for me.
It's really true what they say you know: "You don't actually know what you have until it's gone".
So for the last two days all I have been doing was keeping myself in a haze of smoke from the Pot. By the end of yesterday though (day 2 on the Pot), the ever more increasing paranoia, all the burn outs and the increased tolerance started to get to me. And now here I am the next day writing this, hoping I don't forget what I just went through.
Mouth's still full of the nasty pasties after a full nights sleep too (my tolerance had really lowered I guess).
I feel like my body just can't handle drugs anymore like it used to be able too now that I'm on the 20mgs of Methadone, it's weird. Feels like I'm some old man or something lol.
I was glad to get the escape at first I'll admit (especially on that first day of smoking the ganja). But now it's all just starting to feel nasty. I wanna be back to where I was before I relapsed on cigarettes LOL!!
It's like, "geeze man, make up your mind already", you know? Lol :P
It doesn't help that I have the cigarettes and weed in my room kinda available to me whenever I want right now either.
You know how when you get sick (not dope sick, like just a normal cold), you usually don't feel like doing much but laying down, maybe watching some TV, having some hot soup and nursing yourself back to health... and maybe even calling in sick at that job if you have to ? Well that's exactly how I feel today LOL.
Where as before all this smoke and shit I had quite a bit of energy when I think about it now. I had just gotten sick or spoiled of the natural things that I was doing, and maybe didn't make a big enough effort to go walk around outside..
I guess it was an alright idea to have a change of venue when I was in the moment... but I'm already starting to miss my clean feeling head and my fresh air and already regretting it in a way.
That's only after 3 days of smoking maybe 8 cigarettes a day too, and 2 days of smoking weed all day every day of course lol ("once an addict always an addict").
May have not been the best idea I guess overall. I mean Weed is an alright painkiller sometimes I'll admit when you don't have a tolerance to it at all and those side-effects don't kick your ass... but it's already started to turn the tables on me after only two days of smoking, soo yeaaah... Lol
I am hoping I am strong will'd enough to say no to those two stupid substances in these next couple days and get back to where I was.
Right now I'm just happy to not be as burnt out on Kush as I was last night generally, but I don't know if that's going to last, as I could even still be partialy high from all the weed I smoked yesterday lol.
In these last 3 years I've honestly quit smoking weed probably at least 10 times. It's rediculous. Been back and forth, back and forth so to speak. Always looking for something to lift me up from that dull life they call Methadone.
So I guess if I want to continue without Weed or cigarettes (as they seem to only make things worse afterwards), than I'm gonna have to pay the piper (the sooner the better right now, as I know if I keep going it's only gonna get worse).
One thing I noticed is that the weed made me loose touch with my higher power as well for those two days that I was baked. I didn't like that part at all, as my higher power was helping me the most before any of that crap.
So please pray for me if you can that I can suck it up and do what I know deep down is right, as I don't feel like living in guilt and that haze, or like some sketched out burn out. But I guess we'll see if I'm able to turn this around and return to how I was living before the cigarettes and weed came into place.
I have a feeling that the cigarettes are going to be harder to quit than the Pot, and I may have to start chewing nicorette gum instead if I desire to continue on with the nicotine. But when it comes to actual cigarettes, I can literally feel how each one just destroys my health. And that just sucks!
I feel like if I hadn't gone through all that stress from the Ibogaine trip and than those 3 days cold-turkey + all of the days adjusting after that, than I wouldn't have felt the need to escape as much as I did... as it seemed to build-up more and more as time went by if you get what I mean.
What I don't wanna forget though is that we're all only human, you know??
Who knows though, maybe this is just what I needed at the time? You never know.
I can only hope to God that I leave these things alone and recover myself ASAP. But we'll see I guess.
All in all hoping I keep positive.
Wish me luck.
Added a couple hours later:
Blaaaahhh. I am so damn hungover from that damn Weed right now. So dizzy, extremely low on energy, not in a good mood at all, have a big headache, stomaches all messed up from all the junk food I munched out on in the last couple of days, and overall just feelin like a pile of shit LOL. Can't keep anything down right now either, and I also have an ear ache for some reason. My throats all fucked up from those cigarettes too. YUCK!!!
And they say Weeds not a drug?? What a fucking joke.
So far today I had a bruuutal morning. I had the hardest time getting home from my clinic again, and had to walk so damn far feeling sicker and sicker as I walked just to find a bus stop. I'm so damn unfamiliar with the place still, it's just rediculous. That kinda shit just stresses the hell right outta me!!!
Unfortunately I have a head cold right now to boot, which is making it all that much worse and making things a bit confusing for me right now as well. My brains kinda going which is which, you know?
It's funny though, right after I start smoking cigarettes and than a bit of Pot, my immune system gets destroyed in less than 3 days and I get hit with a bad cold/bug. And the thing is, I haven't had a cold in like over a year before now to, as I had been using nicotine filled e-cigarettes for a while and working a job which required me to be outside all winter (this all seemed to strengthen my immune system at the time)...
But than cablamm!! Right when I go back to the traditional tobacco filled cigarettes and have a few days lost in a stoned haze with MaryJane, I get my ass kicked instantly by the laws of Karma. Marijuana is the gateway drug (in more ways than one).
I guess when it comes down to it, a drug is a drug is a drug is a drug.
Yesterday I didn't smoke any Pot and gave what I had to a family member to hold onto. But I'm still not 100% or anything, and don't feel like I did before I smoked up, that's for sure. I also started using nicorette gum yesterday instead, and that feels better than smoking cigarettes at least and obviously isn't nearly as bad as the actual tobacco and all that garbage in it. I always hated how short lasting cigaretes were to.
I have a feeling the cigarettes were my gateway to the Pot, and the Pot could have easily just led to other shit. It stopped working really fast to more and more.
I don't know why but substances seem to effect me differently than other people. Either that or they're hiding what it really does to them and just glamorizing the shit out of them. Who really knows eh?
I never actually have quit nicotine before in my life completely and entirely so that's a big challenge for me (especially at a time like this). I don't think trying to kick both nicotine and adjust to that huge drop of Methadone was very good for my body, and I think it ended up overloading it by day 9. I guess that's how we learn though eh? Even though it's a bitch.
Even with the split-dose though I still wake up sick because of my fast ass metabolism.. And without it I know I wouldn't be able to sleep through the night, as my dose was pooping out on me right before or near the 12 hour mark!
I also talked to the Doctor today and asked him if the next time I come I can have my dose increased by 2 mgs. He said that's doable, so I'm hoping next thursday that I should start my new decrease from 20-18mgs .
Aside from all that I'm just sick with a stupid head cold right now and trying to recover from my two day Marijuana binge. I can say with certainty now that it totally wasn't worth it for me to smoke up.
Everything feels clouded and messed up and my thoughts aren't as normal or leveled out as they were before I smoked the Marijuana. But I'm just trying to let go and let God basically.
Please pray for me everyone. I am hoping things get better for me soon.
I don't know if it's just me or if it was that Ibogaine or what, but damn, all drugs seem to leave me with a reallly nasty aftertaste these days, even small things like caffeine. And yes, even Marijuana is a drug. But that's just me.
I honestly believe that it is the mindset in which the ibogaine left you to feel every drug as something you wont be familiar with. A good sign , in my eyes,- lastly it depends on your mindset when you will be able to quit,
I do understand that and why you want to get off the done as quickly as possible, but dude, the dose is not yet holding you and you begin to taper down again? Please really remember you are only human and - so you say yourself- you are one who feels thes 1 mg difference.
You please have an eye on this and dont reduce before you havent adjusted on your dose, The state of constant undersaturation of receptors, because that is what you feel on too low a dose does not at all help with cravings- and this is not only cravings to methadone but also and possibly even more to nicotine and cannabis.
when I read your upper post about how you first bought cigs then weed and got baked all thru the day, hell thats ringing alarm bells for me.
You don't need to go far when looking for the reasons of your cravings: you are undersaturated- you are uncomfortable with the situation as you get to the clinic - on top you have causght a cold, - you are feeling generally unwell.
How would you not crave for something - and as your brain knows that it 'may not' crave opiates- what does it do, smart lump of tissue?
Crave cigarettes. what they dont make me high? - crave cannabis, - what dont make the high I was looking for ? -> next comes opiates as you say yourself.
I had that flu like symptoms. they began on day 3 of my journey. this is due to our weakened immune system. when kicking methadone it will certainly do that.
Perhaps switching to liquid methadone will solve your dosing problems. That is your best bet, ask your doc about it if its available. My friend smoked all day few days ago, and def. suffered for it. I think he is gonna stop all together.
Hope you feel better my friend, keep on fighting and don't listen to those who try and persuade you to do and think otherwise. Even if it is your closest and dearest family member. You are doing this for you and your future either they are on board or not.