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Hello everyone, here is some backround information.
Been on Methadone for about 4-5 years at 65 mg Tapered down 5 mg everyweek until I got to 5 mg. Now it has been 9 days since my last dose and I am taking clonidine and baclofen. From what I understand, this withdrawel process will last at least a month. For the most part the anxiety is under control (thank god) but I am expiriencing extreme chills/sweaty hands and feet/ very lethargic / insane chest cold + severe post nasal drip and gagging. Also taking Vistaril for the anxiety and anti-histamine benefits. This combination has been working for the first week, but now I seem to be getting much worse.
Now I am researching an alternative because not only are my w/d symptoms breaking through more and more, I am getting wicked nosebleeds on top of everything else. I have been reading about KRATOM, but am worried that adding even the slightest opiate will extend my w/d and draw it out longer than the month I am expecting to suffer...but if the addition of Kratom can "mask" these damned w/d's so I can start functioning like a human being, I will gladly give it a try. I dont want to ask the DR at the clinic I go to because I believe all I will get is a biased opinion based on Kratoms effects on the Mu receptors...im sick of taking all these pills which are messing with my stomache and these nosebleeds...I am also presibed Meloxicam, Nuerotonin(which does shit), and something for Diarheaa on top of the clonidine and vistaril.
OnTheStrength added 54 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...
Well, I went ahead and purchased some Kratom last night, and I can say that it has GREATLY helped with my withdrawel from methadone. I'm on my 10th day from taking my last dose which was at 5 mg. I am only taking 2 capsules which end up being a gram a piece. Noticed immediate relief. Now I undestand how kratom can be very addictive and cause w/d's of its own. But I intend to take ONLY for these wicked withdrawl symptoms from the methadone and nothing more. I have read that most people consume between 5-10 grams PER serving more than twice a day. This I believe is un-necessary and the only reason people even get withdrawels.
I'm probably at the stage of PAWS ...because I KNOW there is no methadone in my system for it has been over 10 days since I last dosed..ever since I dropped to around 10 mil. of methadone I have been suffering...this has been 3-4 weeks of hell. I am running out of time for my recovery and will be forced back to work very very soon...and that simply will not work given the way I feel. Im fortunate enough to have supportive family members and the discovery of Kratom. Kratom can very well be a double edged sword because there is not much known about it except for the personal expiriences I have been reading. But most are very positive as far as helping with methadone withdrawel. The ONLY difference between these storys is the varying dosage that people take. I believe if done correctly and responsibly, this could very well be my salvation. I am tired of looking, smelling and feeling like shit fuck and death..please excuse my language...but I cannot better describe how I feel with any other words.
I was hoping to get some direct feedback sooner, but one cannot be impatient in this long and drawn out process. I will continue to document my expirience for those who find themselves in situation. Getting off methadone is truelly an achievement. Only the strong survive....and even the strong need strong support. Hope I can find some of that on here.....
Last edited by OnTheStrength; 03-04-2013 at 16:55.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Dude, you are not alone, in fact you're better off than I am. I did what a dumbass would do and took hydrocodone and a big dose of immodium while I was in withdrawal. I'm still having the GI problems like nausea, runs, cramped stomach, plus all the anxiety and insomnia, I'm too 10 days off of any opiates, and I'm at work right now. I did the same thing you did, tapered from about the same amount and also jumped at 5mg. It did seem to me like it wasn't easy when I got down to 10mg a day too.
I have searched for answers, and all that is said is "in time it will get better". Even my doc said that.
Dude, I don't know how you do it...maybe im just lazy or have submitted to my w/d's but I cant even bring myself to go outside...matter of fact I cant go outside without being blinded by the sun..thats how long ive been INside...I think my fear of this lasting for another month or perhaps the uncertainty of how long these w/d symptoms will last is driving my crazy...I understand this is going to take time, but I never imagined it would be this long...
much respect for you to bring yourself out of bed and even attempt to look presentable for work, let alone going to work and working. If you truelly feel worse than I do...which I believe is true my god you are strong willed.
Dude, I'm not Clint Eastwood or anything, I've been crying like a bitch, obsessing over stupid shit, shaky, my heartbeat gets messed up, I get faint, cold, all of that shit. My job isn't incredibly hard, but it still takes some concentration and my some strong willpower. Now as much as I hate being up here, it is still better than sitting at my house alone, not only because work can take my mind off of things for a little while, but also that getting back into my daily routine is damn important. If I were at home all day I'd be thinking obsessively about: overtaking my benzos, taking opiates, and what the hell I did to end up this way instead of thinking forward.
I would recommend getting out of the house, I know about the sensitivity to light but wear some sunglasses. Take a shower, put on normal clothes, go do something normal.
And what I meant by the "you're doing better than me" thing is that I ate a plain baked potato last night and considered than an accomplishment. This shit has messed with my stomach/gi really damn bad, I've probably thrown up like 20-30 times in the last 2 weeks. Consider yourself one of the lucky ones if that is not a problem for you.
Let me know more about that kratom crap if you continue to take it. I would like SOMETHING, just not hydrocodone, and I don't want to fuck up my stomach with it. I'm not sure if adding another opioid is gonna help me or hurt me. I know taking the hydrocodone after I quit the methadone hurt me though.
Yeah dude, clint eastwood aint got shit on this withdrawel... But the kratom is most definately helping. I've read tons and tons of stories and when its used responsibly and in moderation it has worked miracles. I have not taken any clonidine, baclofen or meloxicam because I simply have had no anxiety or muscles aches since last night trying out the kratom for the first time in capsule form. As far as introducing a new chemicle to your body that may be habbit forming and cause w/d .. i can tell you this from all the research i've done, and these people are taking over 10 grams a day, some people 10 grams 3x a day for a month and still not develope seriouse withdrawel...and these are people NOT using it for withdrawel..but recreationly and abusing it. The horror stories of kratom withdrawel come from people who never been through opiate w/d and Dr's trying to cash in on the fact that it may cause w/d and they can cure you....in 1 day... I went to a local headshop here in florida and was easy enough to come by.
If done right and responsibly, you can throw away those benzo's and hydrocodone because that will only draw things out for you in the end... I am not an expert I am just trying to find some relief in this painful part of life and I would like to share what is and is not working for me. It has not been a full day and I already found much relief. I take no more than 2 grams throughout the day and I am not high or euphoric or even craving more when the w/d kreeps back...the only reason I think I will keep taking it for the next week or two is to avoid w/d all together or as much as I can because the relief is what I truelly seek. I've gone cold turkey off dope a few times and it was never this long...that is the only thing im having difficulty ...the length of this suffering is truelly depressing and tiring.
Do your research first too determine if this is a good course of action. For me it was for the relief of w/d from methadone and the side-effects of all the medication I was prescibed were causing problems on-top treating the w/d - including massive nose bleeding..high blood pressure, sour stomache...my G.E.R.D got so bad I developed a gag-reflex everytime I would try and swallow ANYTHING, food, water, gatorade..which lead to constant spitting that would last hours on end and a big lump in my throat that would not go away. (try and goto bed with that crap) ...But I honestly can say I feel a great relief from all these symptoms.. If your stomache is sensitive, and you throw up easily or gag reflex like me..the taste of the tea can really be disgusting...so try the capsules.
OTS, Lyrica? Try to search on forum, there is some information. It is not an opioid but WDs go to background, (ab)user just no longer concentrates on WDs, it dries nose and eyes, removes restless legs and other dysfunctions of central nerves system, and as a result it gives long deep sleep. Unfortunately lyrica's tolerance grows too fast and lyrica has it's own WDs, so use it wise.
I hope it is not your case but usually people with your experience of using methadone feels WDs for 9-15 months. First 2 months are hard but then it is slowly going better and better, also the one slowly accustoms to live with WDs. Last months, most the time, the one feels good but WDs returns sometimes for a short time.
Lyrica is OTC ? This I did not know. Just remember the Lyrica commercials... Much of my lack of sleep is due to the Post nasal drip and gagging..I have to constantly keep crackers in my mouth to absorb the saliva so I dont constantly constantly gag everytime I swallaw saliva...heavy breathing through the mouth and concentration while putting my head between my legs to reverse the course of the nasal drip is getting a bit old....taking prevacid for the acid reducing qualities but that takes some time for any relief is given... mayhaps this will work for me...even alegra wont dry me up...
The hydrocodone is gone, flushed down the toilet. It prolonged the methadone w/d's (from what I hear), and the way I figured it I was just gonna be sick again when I stopped that. I was taking 10mgs of hydrocodone when I got down to 10mg of methadone, because I was waking up at night and it would knock me back out. It also go to where when the methadone seemed to be gone from my body, I need more hydrocodone, or I'd be sick every 6 hours (which I assume was because of the half-life of the hydrocodone). So I dropped it. That is why I'm skeptical about using any short acting opioids, I don't want to screw with my stomach any more than it already is and I don't want another dependence.
As far as the benzos go, I've been on a fairly large dose of klonopin for a long ass time, so I can't lay them down, or at least it would not be advisable in the condition I'm in. I kicked it for a couple of months, actually with relative ease in comparison to this devil called methadone, but I got back on them. I'm gonna start a doctor-controlled taper as soon as this shit gives in. Don't get me wrong, I feel a hell of a lot better than I did a week ago, I was pacing around work and rolling around in my chair from nausea. My appetite is complete shit, and nausea still comes and goes, but it is a lot better.
And I'd only be willing to try lyrica if there is a generic in the US. My insurance either won't pay or it will be like 60 bucks for a bottle of 30 or something.
Oh..well I suppose I can inquire about it when I next see the clinical dr. You know what, I'm feeling much better and would rather not continue taking the kratom because at this point i believe the worse is over. Now some depression is setting in and I got this damn cough + massive mucus build up with post nasal drip...I assume this is all due to my body making its adjustments of not having any methadone plus seasonal allergies...plus it did not help getting sick from a family memeber who magically has the same damn flu like symptoms i've been dealing with..
I understand there is no quick fix and I may be in a better position than I think I am, because after all I have been doing absolutly nothing but laying around like a bum for the past few weeks...sooo I am going to ditch the kratom and try to ride this out with a little bit of good bud..and try to venture out past the driveway and walk around the neighborhood, maybe even try and go swimming..I think I am driving myself to feel most of the w/d symptoms I am dealing with at this point...lets hope im right
- &rew lol...In my hastey reading I overlooked the OTS....thanks for your suggestion. If anything I may need some assitance sleeping and to dry my sinuses and throat - never ever heard of lyrica other than the brief commercials I have seen..will def. inquire about that if needed.
Oh..well I suppose I can inquire about it when I next see the clinical dr. Now some depression is setting in and I got this damn cough + massive mucus build up with post nasal drip...I assume this is all due to my body making its adjustments of not having any methadone plus seasonal allergies...plus it did not help getting sick from a family memeber who magically has the same damn flu like symptoms i've been dealing with..
I got the same cough and post nasal drip, even some chest pains, mind you I smoke a pack of Newports a day plus medical mj, and I have TERRIBLE allergies, I have to keep Visine A and benedryl on hand at all times during the spring. The depression is so normal, hell I was depressed during my damn taper, not as badly but depressed.
You mentioned good bud, and I'm telling you this because I have been smoking a straight up 20% strain since before and after withdrawals, go easy on the pot. Take a small hit, wait 5 minutes, take another one, basically just go slow. I tell you this because if you get too high on pot you will feel like your gonna have a damn heart attack, really it is a panic attack, heart feels like it is gonna explode and shortness of breath. If you're not already a pothead then I take like 1 or 2 hits tops if you're getting cali or cali-grade shit. You'll know what I'm talking about if you decide to take a blunt of skunk to the head.
Anyway, good luck to you good sir, my appetite is slowly coming back btw and I'm not shitting everywhere anymore. My anxiety is also down, which I think actually correlate very much. The depression and anxiety gets a hell of a lot better when you get off your ass and get into your routine, if you did ditches or are a day trader or the like for a living I wouldn't go to work just yet, but at least get out and get around the public some. You have to train your mind in a sense to get yourself back into "normal life" or you'll just continue to grow more lonely and depressed. Hell go to NA or AA meetings or something. It gets your mind off the shit.
I have had a similar experience. I was addicted to 250 mg hydrocodone for about two years and tried methadone to get off it. I decided ( quickly) that being tethered to the methadone clinic for months to come every day was goin to kill my wallet bc of the gas it takes to get there but also the horrid effects of methadone itself are dangerous and far more addictiong. I read/tried kratom and Its a miracle. No withdrawals whatsoever ( except the occasional thinking about the drug. ) nothing physical whatsoever. Is say... Give kratom try. And spread the word. Of course your clinicians at the done clinic are going to want to turn you away from anything natural. They can't make money off it. Anyways, I'd love to hear how it works if you do decide to give it a go. Good luck. I wish you well. I know what you are going through first hand
Thank you everyone for your continued support. Day 15 or 14..or whatever.. Yeah yem...i got some crippie bud from florida and boy I used to be a heavy smoker, now..I just don't nothing to do with it.. I'm going nuts living like a hermit..yet I have no desire to do anything. Perhaps I need to get off my arse and walk the dogs or do something other then sit around all day, stare at the wall/computer screen feeling sorry for myself...The kratom I picked up from a headshop I cannot tell if it increasing my histamine levels because the gagging and nasal drip seems to get worse...or perhaps its just the insane pollin count and the excess dog hair laying around since I have not been cleaning up like I used to. Anti-histamine properties seem to help so it must be a combination of allergies.
Having the strangest dreams I think I've ever encountered..and they are quite vivid yet I enjoy them, when I can sleep. I think the hardest part is trying to learn how to live life clean ...essentially re-wiring our brains through activity without the presence of foreign mind altering chemicles always keeping our emotions, feelings and desires at bay. I want nothing more then to be a good productive person, a good father, a good son, and a good boyfriend...sometimes I will sit and think all day listenening to music for hours and hours and hours dreaming for the day I finally feel normal. I have been an addict all of my adult life and im afraid I don't know how to live clean..was always surrounded by dope fiends and drug dealers and people who don't give a ish about me... But I want more then anything to be a healthy, informed, motivated and loving person - and I dont know how..all I know is taking a pill or whatever the case my be, in order to feel like i am functioning, in order to have motivation to get through the work day, most of the time just so I can get up and start my day..how do I do this !! especially feeling the way I feel which is complete garbage!! I will say this, god does not put us through anything he does not think we can handle..and perhaps I deserve to go through this for a little while for living so foul my whole life. This forum has been a godsend to me. I feel more love from the few people responding to my out-cry's then people I've known my whole life. I cannot see my self ever using opiates again, because I never ever want to suffer like this again in my life. I feel like a zombie -rotting from the inside out and forever falling apart...but this wont last forever and I am gonna stick to getting clean and staying that way.
Hey OTS, good morning to you. Yeah when I got off of work for some reason Friday night I had the feeling of "what now? It is friday night I wanna pop some pills" kinda thing where I almost freaked about how all the time I used to be nodded out and crap and the fact that most of my friends either use me or they have a worse problem than I did with opiates or whatever drug. I wonder what sober people do our age sometimes. I guess they are already married or something. I have no clue how in the hell you have survived sitting in your house if you are alone for over 2 weeks. I would recommend a shower, put on some jeans and a nice shirt (and a jacket if you're still getting chills) and go out right now. It doesn't matter where you go, just go SOMEWHERE. Dude I've had splitting ass back pain and my stomach has been turned upside down for 3 weeks and I'm still going to work full time and have been for 2 weeks. I went to work at the freaking peak of the hydrocodone withdrawals and still during methadone withdrawals, think about that. It will make you feel better. I don't know if you are taking a shitload of vacation time at work or if you are unemployed, but if I were you I'd try to get a job if you don't have one to keep your mind occupied.
The good thing is that we still are fairly young, and we can still do what we wanna do, without drugs! I mean everyone has regrets and redo's that they wish they hadn't, hell I'd like to go back about half of my life and know what the hell I know now about people, life, drugs, everything. That simply is not a luxury that we have, but damn you and I both are conquering something that is SO HARD to do on your own, and the odds are against us buddy, I hate to say it but it is true. We have to be strong, and we have to find out what makes us happy in life and by god take a fucking chance on it. If we fuck it up, at least we say that we did our best, and don't have a drug problem anymore. I think going through this is going to make us stronger in the end. Hell I know it is, I was around somebody fucked up as a rat on xanax and hydrocodone yesterday and all I could do was shake my damn head. I mean I'm not trying to be judgmental, but when you see other people like that when you're sober you realize that is how you look an acted back in days of using and it is a damn shame really.
You guys are doing great. Congratulations to your achievements until now.
Wow, a methadone withdrawal with a half a flu on top is nothing what I would call nice.
OTS, I suspect when your brain tells you it is time to cancel the Kratom intake, there must be something behind it, you can always begin again if severe withdrawal symptoms came up again.
Both of you, keep on going that way,your real selves are waiting for you.
Wish I had this part of cessation of methadone intake already behind me, but it needs some tapering still...
You willpower is a beacon of hope for everyone trying to get off the 'done.
And you are doing so great supporting each other and exchanging your ideas. It is of utmost importance to be aware of what is going on in us during withdrawal and PAWS and it I found it always helpful to have people in the same situations to compare and share thoughts, ideas feelings and emotions.
On top writing it all up is greatly helping others who are looking for help and information on this topic in the future.
My best wishes for the months and years coming..
Last edited by TheBigBadWolf; 07-04-2013 at 16:54.
Thanks wolf, I meant to mention it to OTS earlier but I have allergies like a bitch and I get the same shortness of breath, my inhaler is 47 bucks and it is almost out (I carry it during spring, it has been cold until here recently and I get a lot of post nasal drip). The cost being it is brand name crap because it is HFA approved (meaning it is a tick's hair closer to being safer for the environment so it costs up the ass). I should probably quit smoking, but here recently I've been smoking cigarettes like crazy, that usually happens to people withdrawing from drugs I hear. Smoking cigarettes just feels so good at this point, it will even seem like it calms my stomach sometimes. My throat is a little sore, but everything is a little sore right now, just part of healing from this nasty shit.
My shit is still not 100%, I'm still sore feeling and not eating as much as I should, but at least I'm eating somewhat real foods. I found that eggs are good, boiled, scrambled, they are good and full of protein plus you add that salt so you get the sodium. I ate some leftover deviled eggs from easter last week and some crackers and they were awesome too, if you feel like cooking, pretty easy to make them. Penut butter and bread with some chips is also good too, it has like every food group in it. Add strawberrry preserves and you have a little bit of fruit too, although it is full of sugar.
Anyway I hope OTS is keeping on pushing, I think the kratom might not have been bad on me but fuck it honestly. After the hydrocodone dulled the withdrawals and prolonged them I didn't want any kinda opioid around me, I felt like the hydro was making me more sick in the long run. The benzos are a different story, those are a damn lifesaver.
for me it has been an achievement to eat something at all, then ask what it could be, as soon as the stomach is able to work on some food other than a youghurt there's hope around that the worst part be over in some days.
I'm not all with you about Kratom.
The active substance in Kratom,mitragynine, is working on the same receptors but is not exactly an opioid the addictivity is by far not as high as with natural or synthetical opiates/opioids and there have been many reported cases of Kratom use for opiate withdrawal. The substance is addictive, that is correct, although in moderate use little to no withdrawal effects can be perceived. Benzos, well, yes.. one of the nastiest addictive shit, but used on an acute problem very effective.
Just be careful, these are perhaps even more addictive as opies, have a real nasty kind of withdrawal and on top withdrawing benzos abruptly can lead to seizures or death.
I hope that you are aware of this and don't overdo it neither dose- nor time-wise.
Oh I know about the addictive nature of benzos. Trust me, I was on them before I was on opiates. I am dependent on them, I can't lie, but I'm only limited to so many, so I can't "overtake" them. I take them as I am prescribed, I do want off of them too eventually, but I'm gonna taper off of them like I did the methadone. I've been through benzo withdrawal before and it was not pretty but in comparison with methadone it was a breeze.
The kratom I was just speaking for personally; I've been off of all opioids for over 2 weeks, and I've been off of methadone for over 3 weeks, I want to introduce as little foreign substances as I can to my body as this point, especially an opioid. It would be a little different if I was just a week into it, but I'm almost there I feel, my stomach and my sleep just have to get back in line and I feel like I'm set for the most part. I wasn't putting down kratom and really suggesting benzos, I'm was just saying what I think will work for me.
Hey guys, It's been a long journey. FINALLY got to taking care of myself and some-things around the house..and just moving around being busy felt so...good... I have no energy and little motivation, but I pushed myself and it was well worth it. I walked my dogs this morning (all 3 of them) and I cannot recall ever feeling so alive. I mean...here in orlando florida ..I smelled the salt water, I smelled the flowers (yeah yeah I know) and the air...it smells and taste so...great. I have been un-employed because my profession I am a plumbers apprentice which requires focus, attention and strength for all the heavy lifting, and sometimes the work day is much more than 8 hours. Also my family and I are not going to stay in Orlando for much longer. My son is in New York and I honestly hate it here, I dont know anybody, and I am alone! Just waiting on some money that should of already been here, then we are back to NY...but that is not going to stop me from going out and finding some part-time work in the mean time.
I have been an addict my whole adult life and for the first time, I am clean! But now comes the learning how to live life being clean part. While on methadone for 6 years..life and desires, interests, determination, health and my dreams have faded away into obscurity. Now they are slowly returning and its kind of overwhelming. It's day 15 I believe...and I assume it can only get better from here on out. I am so used to popping a pill, going through bundles, or waiting for my morning dose to get my day started so I can feel motivated to get through work or whatever else...now all I have is me myself and I .. so I understand there will be a difficult transistion period..but my DESIRES are to get my life back on track, make ammends to good friends I have deserted due to my selfish addictions, and become the best father, son, brother, employee and friend and overall the best person I could be. I will try my best to not dwell on the debt I have put myself in..but on how to get myself out.. there is life after opiates and this is only the begining. I am going to try to attend an NA meeting this week for the first time ever. Because reading the responses from all you guys, especially Yem69420..makes me feel like im not alone. Reading about your struggles and still getting up for work and your optimism really helps, so maybe being part of something with people like me will help me in my journey to STAY clean and live HAPPY. You can't do this by yourself, this I have learned the hard way. The more support one person has the larger the chance one has at a succesful and clean life. I will continue to take small steps in the right direction because I REFUSE to waiste anymore time and life being a slave to addiction!! Thank you everyone so much for your responses ...it has helped in many ways.
OnTheStrength added 7 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...
Also, what has been making things much more difficult on TOP of the flu and w/d's is my GERD. I have a constant lump of mucus, that even on a good day is still slightly present that causes me to gag and spit every damn time I swallow!! This has screwed up eating and drinking in a major way. BUT this is forcing me to re-consider my diet and a healthier approach to life. So this has been a real struggle, but im getting there...
OnTheStrength added 10 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...
And wolf, thank you for your input. I gave up on the Kratom last week and have been riding this out with what my clinic doctor has prescribed me. But I am trying to ride out whatever symptoms im feeling on my own. I will continue to try and stay busy as best I can. I do not want anymore chemicles in my body!
Last edited by OnTheStrength; 08-04-2013 at 14:50.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I was on 18mgs of Methadone for a few months and had a horrible time coming off of it as well. My pain management doc tapered me down too quick too soon. For about 10 days after I took my last dose I felt like crap; insomnia from restless leg, stomach pains and lethargy. I feel your pain and wish you nothing but the best getting off of it! GOOD LUCK!!!!
Thank you Jd,
It does get better my friend. I am the type of person who will sit and stair at the wall waiting for it to get better...but that only makes it worse..I am a big baby when it comes to feeling sick AT ALL..even getting hot and cold while on methadone!! But im feeling better day by day..and you will to brother.