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Diphenhydramine Experiences: Please Post DPH Experiences Here
Here is an experience with Diphenhydramine that will hopefully encourage people to never try it. Around 8 years ago, my friend took around 6 benadryl pills and aroun 300 mg of DXM. He had the some very realistic hallucinations. The first visuals he started to see was a clear wavy lines on the wall. Sort of like the look
of the Predator when he was supposed to be invisible.
Next thing he knows he was talking to his girlfriend for over an hour. After he returned from the bathroom he realized that his girlfriend was never there. He continued to see and talk to people that weren't actually there for several hours. After going to sleep, he woke up serveral hours later, preceded to the bathroom, did his business and then went to sleep on the floor of the bathroom thinking that it was his bed.
During some time between then and the morning, he managed to remove one shoe and throw it into the living room and also managed to remove the bathroom door off it's hinges. He woke up around 10 a.m. the following morning having no clue of what happened the following night.
Throughout the rest of the day, he continued to see movement out of the corner of his eye, but when he turned to look nothing was there. Just wanted to share my friends experience.
Last edited by Mindless; 11-11-2013 at 10:07.
Reason: Added line breaks and paragraphs.
yea i dunno y u want to do Diphenhydramine...i remeber it was in these sleeping pills i had, so i took a bunch becuase did a lot of speed that day and wanted to sleep...well i never got to sleep becuase the whole night all i could hear were people talking and no one else was home in my house
i have had some pretty messed up experiences with them. i have taken doses up to 550mg of it.
i don't really like the drug, i have done it about5 times and only one of them was any good. mostly it is just insane amounts of tiredness. i always got a general feeling that something is missing. i felt very dirty and things just couldn't be right. i had some weird hallucinations. big black dog heads came out of my computer screen, and i saw a huge moth on my blanket. there were many other ones too. it's a creepy drug, and not really worth it.
The Diphenhydramine Experience Thread: Please Post Experiences Here
Diphenhydramine is like that drunk cousin that you hate at your
reunion, you know, the one that reminds you of Ambien and Benzo, but
well, he's too dumb and shitfaced.
Dosage: 12 x 25 mg (250 mg)
So this is swallowed all at once, no time interval. Erowid qualifies the following dosages:
-Threshhold 10 mg
-Lethal (with rats)500 mg
I would definitely never go over a dosage of 300 mg. I mean,
what's the point? You can only feel so drunk, and this is not a drug that will enlighten you or provide you with spiritual
experiences. The most I've ever done is 275 mg. This is as
Diphenhydramine was bought at pharmacy. It is a OTC found in some
allergy medicines (mainly the infamous Benadryl) and also sleep
meds. I've only used sleep meds, they have less inactive
ingredients. Just try to find one with only diphenhydramine
listed as the only active ingredient. 12 of the 25 mg pills were
swallowed on empty stomach, effects were noted within exactly one
hour. I have no idea why, but they always exactly kick in one
hour later. Almost to the dot.
Anyway, overdosing on these pills will give you a drunken sense.
This is a purely physical drug. You will feel very sleepu, almost
as if your muscles were in some kind of cement or quicksand. Your
mind will slow down. Everything will slow down. You will
try to stay awake, and it will be very hard. This is the fun
part; you fighting the sleep. You can try caffeine pills or
It is my theory that this fighting your desire to sleep creates the
"diphenhydramine feeling." It is hard to describe.
Basically, the closest I can come is to ask you to remember what it is
like when you are in your bed, trying to fall asleep. You know
that period when you realize that you are falling asleep? That
usually only lasts a few seconds, because you are soon asleep.
With diphenhydramine, that feeling is prolonged as long as you stay
I have never lasted more than 2 hours before I fall asleep.
I have also attempted this once during the day, and the effects were
greatly diminshed, leading me to think that it works much better in the
dark. So stow all the breakable things in your room away, close
the door, put on some heavy beats, and lie on the ground until the drug
kicks in. Then try to stand up.
That is the diphenhydramine feeling.
Please be safe when you do this, I don't know if it is illegal to
overdose on these whatever, I'm assuming all of this info is
legal. Just remember this is a crappy drug. It really
is. There are much better things out there, this is mostly a last
resort/want to try it once. At least in my opinion. Oh, and
you will not want to do anything the next day, you will feel extremely
Yeah, I took 12 pills last night (btw 12 x 25mg = 300mg) and I had a
very strange body high, I didn't get very tired, and I became quite
nautious... I didn't have any major hallucinations but I saw (or
thought I saw) flashes of color on the outskirts of my field of vision,
mostly in the bottom corners for some reason. Also, I saw a few
black dots flying around or sliding across the wall at different times,
though only out of the corner of my eye.
I will try again, maybe tonight, but I'll smoke a bowl to hopefully calm my stomach.I think I'll go with 425mg.
i have had real weird experiences with diphenhydramine. ive gotten
those very real hallucinations. the trick is to stay awake through the
first drunken stage. this stage is actually quite fun, your motor
skills get all fucked and you feel real heavy. if you dont fall asleep
during this stage you will start tripping about an hour(?) after the
first downer/drunk effects. this trip is not really that fun. ive taken
it maybe about 5 times and i doubt i will do it again. it is by no
means psychedelic, the hallucinations are not kaleidascopic patterns or
trails, they are people and objects that are nearly indistinguishable
from reality. in the heat of this your mind goes to shit. you cannot
hold a thought for more than about 15 seconds. there are very intense
dreamlike states. i remember i was watching "one flew over the cuckoos
nest" on this drug and it was the part where the dude is going crazy
about wanting cigarettes. i really wanted to smoke a cigarette, but i
was afraid to because i thought he would probably ask for one. no joke,
i didnt realize how ridiculous this was until the next day. you will
see people and tlak to them and then realize that they arnet real and
they will dissapear before your eyes. i did a lot of research about
diphenhydramine before i took it so i was prepared for this but i bet
if you didnt know what was coming you would continue talking to
imaginary people for hours. one important point: in the first stage of
drunken heaviness you will want to sleep, but after you start really
tripping you will not be able to sleep for a long ass time. not sure
exactly how long, but several hours. ive always been really out of it
and not been capable of doing sometihng like checking the time when ive
been on it. i had one really shit experience with it that i described
in the "various drugs not covered by other forums" section called "the
dnagers of psychedelic deliriants". all in all its not really a good
recreational drug, but it is weird as fuck, and if you enjoy weirdness
you may enjoy diphenhydramine.
polloloco, at what doses did you experience this? I just have
experienced the drunkiness, and then went to sleep because I was tired
and bored. Perhaps I will try this OTC again tonight...haven't
done it in a couple months. I will try to get through the sleepy
part to experience the hallucinations.
What I usually just feel is this super slow down of reality, where you
feel almost drunk in terms of trying to move. Your muscles feel
like they are in quicksand, or underwater, or cement or something,
because at first your mind is still able to move quickly, and then it
succumbs to the chemical as well. At this point you begin to slur
words and such. And all you can really do is think about
sleep. You begin taking small naps, just resting your eyes.
They then get longer, until you say "fuck it" and go to bed.
The next day you will feel very sleepy or drowsy. No hangover or anything, just drowsy.
Hopefully I can bypass this sleepy phase tonight. Will report if
successful. Maybe 400 mg dose of diphenhydrinate as opposed to
300 mg dose of dyphenhydramine. Hopefully this will not effect the 9 hour shift of construction work I have tomorrow.Peace.
-Walking is weird - feet feel like they weigh 300lbs
-Really annoying "high" - you can feel the rush in your head, but it isn't exactly pleasant - feels kinda like someone's tickling my brain or something.
-Bad cotton-mouth. Real bad.
-Extreme irratability... just feel like punching anyone who bothers me even slightly.
-Really, really tired. Somewhat of a headache.
So yeah, IMO diphenhydramine sucks as far as physical effects... the interesting hallucinations are what keeps me from giving it a total thumbs-down. I've seen some of the strangest things on this stuff - people coming into my house, dogs on the floor, etc. Auditory hallucinations interesting as well - a lot of whispering and stuff... only most of the time, you're so out of it that you don't even notice the auditory. It's like a bad dream or something.
I've heard of people getting mentally addictive to the stuff, and doing it all the time - like several times a week... I don't think that's typical though.
Last edited by Phungushead; 01-02-2011 at 15:27.
Yeah, I sincerely doubt this is chemically addictive. Like most
OTC's it has a problem of being "addictive" because it is legal and
extremely easy to purchase, much like dxm can be "addictive" for some
If you like getting fucked up on a regular basis simply because, then this might become habit forming.
Alfa, what led you to believe this might be addictive? And so
many questions from you...hm, interested in trying this are we?
"Anticholinergic syndrome is the common symptom of overuse/overdose. Palfai and Jankiewicz relate the description used among medical professionals to describe the look of drug action that in interfering with cholinergic systems:
Dry as a bone,
Red as a beet,
Hot as a furnace,
Mad as a hatter,
Blind as a bat.
These extremes should been watched for, especially by caregivers of children and elderly so that medical attention can me given. The dry as a bone thing is usually what we want when using Benadryl. Unfortunately, at the toxic level it can effect urination and the production of stomach fluids that are necessary for good physical functioning. The flushed feeling or look of the dilation of blood vessels and the increased temperature of the patient can also indicate this syndrome. Mad as a hatter describes what happens at the toxic level: delusions, hallucinations, muscle spasms and anxiety. Blind as a bat, with this drug, relates to the uncommon side effect of blurred vision. Additional things to look for are constipation, motor uncoordination and rapid heartbeat. The good news is that there is effective treatment for this syndrom by using medications that stimulate cholinergic sites (thus undoing many of the symptoms).
This ability should in no way encourage overuse/abuse of benadryl. Although safely used for many, excessive use without treatment can permanently impair the user and can increase the chance of seizures or death. Fortunately, this drug has a lower rate of extended abuse because it does not produce the euphoric feelings that other medications or drugs can elicit. It is more commonly abused among young teens or adults who like the feelings from the sedation effects and have not yet found "better" highs."
Off all antihistamine exposures reported to US poison control centers in 1999, 7.4% resulted in moderate to major toxicity and .05% resulted in death. 71% of these fatalities were associated with Diphenhydramine (2).
Diphenhydramine affects multiple systems in the body. The mnemonic, dry as a bone, red as a beet, hot as a hare, mad as a hatter, and blind as a bat, summarizes the classic combination of central and peripheral anticholinergic effects of antihistamine poisoning (2).
Some of the most common adverse reactions include:
General: Rash, anaphylactic shock, photosensitivity, excessive perspiration, chills, dryness of mouth, nose, and throat (4).
And that's why abusing OTC's can be dangerous and should be taken seriously...
Anyway, onto last night's trip report for diphenhydrinate.
Dose:400 mg diphenhydrinate
+30 mins I start to feel drowsy and so take 200 mg of caffeine via NoDoze.
+40 mins I start to feel that familiar drunken feeling, lying
down. On attempts to stand up, it is hardly felt. So far,
this is exactly like diphenhydramine. And then I hear my name
called. I answer, but no one replies.
+1 hr 20 mins It feels much stronger now, much drunker, muscles have
been effectively cemented in the quicksand feeling. No longer
sleepy. The NoDoze has kicked in.
+1 hr 40 mins My dick suddenly twitches and I freak out, because I
believe there is a cockroach/beetle in my pants moving around in my
crotch, and that my limp dick IS the beetle. I find out by using
my hand that no, there is no beetle, and yes, my dick just randomly
twitched. I also seem to notice this weird physical sensation of
a "light air" being around my body. Yes, I know that makes no
sense, it is like there are less air molecules right near me, as if
there is less air. I start to hear random whisperings, very quiet
in the back of my head, but not enough to freak me out. They seem
And then sometime later, I think it was maybe 30 mins later, I decided
this was lame, and I needed to go to bed because I had a 9 hr shift of
construction work tomorrow. Was able to sleep, no loss of that
Aftereffects: The next day I woke up, a little drowsy, but as
soon as I got moving it went away. However, for the rest of the
day, I felt like I had diarrhea, but I couldn't crap for some
reason. I was constipated, but felt like I had diarrhea.
Besides that, normal.
Conclusion: I was a little dissapointed that I experienced no
real hallucinations other than that dick/beetle thing, but hey, perhaps
I just can't get that. Body chemistrys are not all the
same. Maybe I could have stayed up longer, but I decided not to,
it really wasn't worth it and I needed to sleep. On a side not,
this trip report was written in notes, as I experienced feelings.
And I chose not to sit there waiting for feelings to write down, I
tried to distract myself by readin some of the Narnia chronicles (I
think it was The Dawn Treader). Perhaps if I had lain there in
the dark, feelings might have been more intense.
Read into this however you feel, my personal conclusion is that I'll
probably attempt this again in a month or so, when I really have
nothing better to do, and my stash is effectively dead. Like I
already said in a previous post, this is a drug to try if you want to
be a fully experienced psychonaut and are curious about it (because
you're a psychonaut), or are bored and want to fuck yourself up cheaply
because you have nothing else or are too pussy to score real drugs.
I tried it once... took half a pack of Benadryl. it first i felt extremely zoned out, then that "drunkenness" kicked in. i felt like i was made of liquid, a really heavy and molten liquid. i felt like every molecule in me was fluid of some kind, and moved in such a way.
There were no real interesting or positive aspects of it for me. i expected the visuals, but didnt get any other than a strange distortion much like that of extreme sleep deprivation. even after fighting off sleep for hours, didnt come to the visual portion of it like i do with dimenhydrinate.
The negatives were basically that i couldnt distinguish whether i was doing things or not. it felt like i had alzheimers or something... i couldget up, walk to get a drink, then sit down... then look at my glass and say "where did this come from?" convinced that i was in my chair the whole time. it was like a dream, and the oddest part was... i have no idea when i went to sleep. it blurs that line very harshly...
i took15 last night at tenand man o man was that a wierd experience, i've tried it maybe 4 times bafore. as it began to sink in at eleveni noticed that my depth perception was all screwy, like i kept bumpin into things that i thought i had cleared. i walked outside and saw some shadows on the street pop up into cats and run away very quickly. i instantly went back inside and the drunk feeling set in, my moterskills went down the drain. i stumbled into my room and sat down and went onto this site. i started a topic in the dxm forum and got off the net. i looked at my reflection in my closte door (a big mirror). thats when the creepy realistic hallucinations started. blood in a clown makeup pattern started oozing from my eyes.i shreiked and looked away. i put on the itunes visualizer and began to listen to shpongle. the computerwas putting out the only light in the room, and it was directly on my face. i glanced into the mirror againvery slightly, turning my head as little as possible. in the reflection the eye i could see was pure white, and then my reflection turned towards me and my eyes were glowing white. i felt like my own reflection was trying to hypnotize me. so i went outside again and lay on my lawn and looked at the stars until i fell asleep. i woke up at 6 in the morning and rushed into my room and bundled up into my blankets and fell asleep again. i slept until noon. Edited by: als5555
I've taken 550mg of this stuff before, i definently don't recommend going that high. This stuff gives bad cotten mouth, rapid heart beat, and the confused type of hullicinations where you think your taking to someone who isn't around. I've taken this stuff at high doses quite afew times and dramamine which gives pretty much the same affects, but then I realized how much I hated the affect it gives and stoped taking it. After taking it afew times I stoped getting many open eye hallucinations and just mostly would just forget what I'm doing easily. Someone I know has gotten seizures taking this and then smoking weed, so I definently recommend against that.Edited by: Dextro
swim took 800mg one time and would rather slit her own throat with a spoon filled with scorpions than take that much again. if you like dxm, dont try it with that because the shit completely overpowers the dxm, and u just wasted cough syrup. its bloody terrifying if you have to go to school on it also, so try it a few times until you vomit and are too scared to take it again.
like me....tee hee hee.
Seize the moment, hold it fast
Seize the day and make it last
Lose no moment to stupidity
Bleed the moment, live it free
100-150mg dimenhydrinate (the same as but less potent than diphenhydramine)
1 mug of camomile tea
1 mug of this sleep concauction tea which has camomile, peppermint, lemon balm etc.
followed with 800 mgs of methocarbamol (cns depressant found in robaxacet, robaxil etc.)
This gives him the feelings exactly like that of a high dose of just diphenhydramine. It's not exactly "fun" but he uses it to sleep and relax at night, also if he's trying to avoid drugs for a while, on days where he feels weak this will be enough to keep his head busy. He realises these are still drugs but when he says avoiding drugs he means certain drugs to avoid addiction.
This post is based on notes I took during my trip. I wrote it up yesterday. I am having after affects which I will document in a seperate post in this thread. I would appreciate comments and feed back.
(First of all I am writing about my experience, that took place yesterday night. (17th feb 06) (Nytol one a night 50mg)
I took this drug as an alternative experience to Dxm. I am not in contact with people anymore who I could obtain rec drugs like X or speed anymore. I was looking for a mind altering experience to fill a blank void at the moment. Basically feeling like time was slowed right down and is dragging unbearably slowly. I came across some experiences on erowid.com, with regards to Diphenhydramine (benadryl) and Diphenhydramite (Dramamine).
I did some investigating and found that neither were available in Ireland. So keen was I to try the drug, despite numerous bad reports, that I ordered it from a UK pharmacy through the internet. I had settled on taking a low dose 300mg for my first time so eventually it arrived. I decided that once I ingested the drug I would stay on the internet till I felt the effect of the drug. When it came to crunch time I decided to just go with a dose of 400mg.
I took this dose at 21:00 and started surfing the web, while waiting for the drugs to take effect.After about 20 minuute I could feel a sensation in my throat somewhat similar to what I experienced on 25mg of Kemadrin. Basically a feeling that the mucuos in my throat was begining to flake off. About 21:40 I went downstairs to get a drink of water and I got a slight tingling sensation on my face. Apart from these two experience I could not detect any changes at all until about 22:25, when my monitor looked like it was blinking.
At this stage my throat felt like it was kind of swollen accompanied by mild dizziness.. About 15 minutes later I could feel a sensation at the back of my eyes kind of a cloudy feeling. At this stage I was having occasinal auditory hallucination but no visuals. I heard thing like my name being called noticed that music sound different. I wouldn't say better, I wouldn't say worse just different. At this point I was pretty dissapointed so I decided to take another 400mgs. I had a glasses of water with my pills I threw a few into my mouth and washed them down with water. I then threw a few more in but I had trouble swallowing them So I needed to use more water as they had started to dissolve in my mouth as a result I was only able to ingest another 350mg.
By 23:30 I noticed I was alot more sleepy but still experiencing no visuals. At this stage I went to the bathroom and noticed my arms were pretty red, probobaly due to the anti-cholergenic properties of the drug.
I got more and more groggy as time went on. I was begining to have difficultly concentrating, I was experiencing occasional auditory hallucinations but no visuals. This continued until a about 2:00 when my groggines increased by of about 5x in the space of a few minutes. It was quite an overwhelming sensation. I had very little mental alertnes and was begining to feel agitated internally. At this stage 5 hours after first drug administration, and not experiening any of the desired effect I decided to sleep it off. I went to the light swith to turn it off. It pertially dissapeared behind my hand and when I pressed it I found I was pushing the wall.
I felt around the wall until I found it. I couldn't actually see it till I found it. I beleive this is the only visual distortion I had last night. I was mild in comparision to anything I have experienced even from a low dose of ecstacy. I have had experiences stronger visualy from as little as half an ecstacy. The distortions off x were of a similure nature. Thing not exactly where I see them but no true hallucinations.
So I get into bed but finding that I am extremely restless with a distorted though process. I begin to worry about someone finding me like I was and was also aware that my throat sensations were stronger. So I tested my voice and noticed it was extremely difficult to speak, my speech was strained and slow. I got out of bed numerous times over the next few hours due to the restlessness. At this stage I was feeling extremly heavy and this was another source of irritaion. Then I made my bed it was a mess. I got up several more times and found that my bed was once again a mess such was the intensity of my restlessness. When I did eventually sleep it was pretty broken. When I did wake up I was extremly groggy and felt incapable of standing.
One thing I noticed this morning when I got up is that I headache I've had for over a week was alot milder. I couldn't achieve this relief from pain killers so this was something of a suprise. My headache is now beginning to intensify again. I am a little anxious of how I will sleep tonight as I was already having difficulty sleeping. I currently have a script for ambien. I was taking 10mg per night. When I saw my doc friday morning he told me to increase my dose to 15mg, and he'll review how I sleeping in a week. I don't think I will use this drug again. It just seem too unpredictable for me. It is clearly a drug that effect different people in different days. I have read reports of people substanially larger than me having very profound experience off a little as 250mg. At this point my focus is still affected and I wouldn't drive the way I'm feeling now, My concentration is just really bad.
USE THIS DRUG AT YOUR OWN PERIL, YOU MAY FEEL ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, HAVE A GREAT TRIP OR BECOME UNBERABLY RESTLESS.
I have an understanding now as to why this drug is unavailable in Ireland. It is a drug that can just sneak up on. It was only after several hours, 5 in my case that I noticed any significant effect and these were all bad. Other drug like hash which I react negativaly like hash, the effect is almost immediate, and I now avoid hash.
After compiling the above I continued and still do to this point feel a weird sensation in my throat. I can still occasionaly feel the taste of the pills in my mouth. Of note I did had some closed eye visuals which I have not documented above after I went to bed. The only one I remember is my brother coming into my room and asking if I wanted him to fix a certain thing on my computer that i had never heard of. I spent most of yesterday in my room so it wasn't till after I had compiled the above that I realised that my brother wasn't home this weekend. I have to say I feel somewhat disconnected today still, and feel pretty irritable and on edge. Last night I took 20mg stillnoct, doctor prescribed, I though I wouldn't sleep at all after the previous night, but after I settled down I sleep okay. I don't remember having particulary vivid dreams which I usually do off stillnoct. My thoughs are pretty disconnected, I am aware of where I am, but it's like the people I know don't exsist, kinda like I am in a room in the middle of nowhere. Other people feel like they are imagined. I have an interview tommorow and I'm reluctant to go I afraid I won't be able to sell myself at all. Nothing feels real.
This feeling of dissassocitation, is stronger than what I felt friday night, when I took the nytol, but it definately feels safer. I am not suffering from an inexpicable inner tormoil, but I still don't feel right, far from it in fact.
SWiM's taken upwards of 300mg a couple of times. It's really not worth it, IMO.
You feel FUCKED UP.... but it's not really a "good" kind of fucked up. It's the kind of fucked up you get when you're really drunk and you wish you weren'ty drunk anymore.
It's a weird, tickly sensation in your brain that you want to escape from but it just can't happen.
The hallucinations are friggin strange. SWiM kept seeing people in his room, lying on the floor. lying on my bed. standing in the corner. It's interesting becase even though he's aware that these people should NOT be in here.... It doesn't seem to bother him. Like he don't care. He'd look up and there would be a tall man standing in front of a closed door. A dark, shadowy figue. He'd turn his head again and he would be gone. These are not like "psycedellic" hallucinations. There's no breathing or wavyness, no loss of depth perception... just INCREDIBLY real things that are actually not there at all.
The auditory stuff is weird, too. He kept hearing LOUD footsteps going back and forth outside in my hallway. VERY realistic. The voices and conversations heard whispered in his head... seemingly from behind the wall were completely indistingushable from reality.
The hallucinations are the only thing that makes SwiM want to do this again. SWiM told me "They're so fucking real it makes you question everything you see around you"
How long is the duration (including onset) of a Diphenhydramine trip at a dosage of just below or 300mgs? A couple of hours, the whole night, or just depends? Should SWIM make sure not to plan anything for the day after?
Duration seemed to be about 6-8 hours from ingestion to feeling normal enough to perform everyday functions, like interact with sober people. While on the drug theres not much sense of time, so it can be difficult to gauge how long it is lasting. SWIY may have a headache and groggy feeling the next day, so maybe dont plan anything too strenuous, but SWIY won't still be tripping when she wakes up.
Honestly though, read up as much as SWIY can before trying this drug. The "hallucinations" are more like delusions, in that SWIY will not be able to distinguish them from reality. Sounds and sights seem completely real, and swiy will react to things that arent there and assume this is perfectly normal, unlike shrooms, acid, or DXM where there is the tendency to remember that one has taken a drug, and what aspects of one's environment are "real" or not.
SWIM has been curious about delerients for a bit and has been reading up on delerients for about a month, and diphenhydramine for a week. She's going to start slow, and never go past the mark where she can't remind herself that "it isn't real". SWIM was just wondering how long it took, and thank you for the quick and informative reply! SWIM is planning on taking 200mgs first to get a feel and then 250-275 mgs for the actual trip about a week later is she feels up to it. SWIM will post the report here..unless he can find a thread labled "diphenhydramine experiences".
Another thing that SWIM finds interesting is that many people report seeing spiders while on diphenhyramine, and also report seeing clearish gelatin blobs a lot too. What makes certain hallucinations common to a drug? Like why do so many people report seeing children on salvia? SWIM is interesting to hear SWIY's thoughts on the matter, or reports of seeing similar things.