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This is something Swim has been wondering about for a while now, and he does not have the funds to openly experiment and find out on his on.
GENERALLY speaking, which is more cost effective? As in, which will be cheaper for a dose/cheaper for long term use? Swim personally is opiate free usually, so he has low tolerance, but the question extends beyond just him.
THIS IS NOT A PRICE DISCUSSION, only about relativity. As in, "A is about half as cheap as B to use."
Also, which do Swiy gives a better experience overall? As in, does one have potential for greater euphoria or similar? Which has a higher ceiling of effects? Which do you personally prefer?
Poppies means poppy pod tea/"flake" cooked, not raw, actual poppies. Kratom means either kratom leaf, extract, powder, etc.
Swim has consumed both poppy tea and kratom, but is very small amounts. Not nearly enough to judge the substances overall.
Swim is personally looking for a euphoric, clean, sedating high. Swim does want to reach a level of nodding, as well. Is nodding possible with kratom? Swim knows it is with poppy tea, since its full of codeine/morphine.
Any comments/info is appreciated. Swim did search and found nothing. Swim did not want to peruse every single kratom and poppy thread and try to make a guess which is the answer to his questions.
Swim relies on having an opioid, but lacks the funds to play the "doctor/script" game. Swim was relying on tramadol, but it recently ran out. It also stopped working, for an unknown reason, unrelated to tolerance. Swim also will never turn to relying on a dealer for anything, so no heroin. Swim is not a needle user. Swim does have rather extensive opioid usage, though. Swim is looking for something relatively easy to obtain with effects hopefully close to hydrocodone/hydromorphone, at least. Heroin is not even common in Swim's area either, and Swim has no connects/does not want any. Swim knows both poppies and kratom are internet material, and Swim will only rely on the internet for steady supplies of opioids.
If it will help, here are Swim's dosages for a good spot with zero physical tolerance, oral except where noted:
6mg-8mg hydromorphone (intranasal)
Poppy tea..when made right will definatly get SWIM a better buzz than hydrocodones... SWIM would make his by filling up a 2 liter soda bottle at least a third full, half or 3/4 is preffered of store bought poppys, (most brands do a poor job of washing off all the active ingredients of the seeds)...add water and shake the crap out of the 2 liter container for 5-10 minutes if your in a hurry, if not shake it and let the poppys soak with water for a whole day...use a shirt or somthing to filter it as you pour it into your favorite glass...got SWIM through withdrawls so many times...SWIM almost always felt great after a nice glass of poppy tea...and by the way tums dont work.....use tagamet 30mins to 1 hour prior to ingestion for proper potentiation...if you decide to try it agian,,always worked for SWIM....and also this a basic recipe for poppy tea...SWIMS friend used to make bowls of it..using juices to extract it, and all other kinds of eleborate things. SWIM and his silly friends would have poppy punch parties...SWIM likes it better than kratom which he immediately develops a tolerance for...anyway good luck..
My apologies, I am a sloppy drunk fool sometimes. When SWIM first tried kratom he loved it. It was kinda like taking a stimulant with a decent opiate. However every time after the first time, SWIM got more of the stimulant feeling and less of the opiate feeling. SWIM forget what else it does besides giving you an endorphin hi,(my knowledge is lacking on kratom) it some kind of a stimulating effect if I remember right. But whatever it is it makes SWIM uneasy and sick. But SWIMS only tried it a few times. However my friend, and cousin had no problem eating the large bag SWIM ordered within a week, they liked it more than SWIM. SWIMs tolerance was too hi, to eat enough of it without getting the uneasy feeling, which SWIM never gets from the poppy tea, or most all other opi8s.... by the way I dig the post ..I wish i would of found these forums when I was younger and more into OP8s.
mmhhhm i luv me some opi8s!!
Last edited by Helene; 04-04-2010 at 19:52.
Reason: self incrimination
Kratom can definately make 1 nod. SWIM tells me that he/she took 4gs 15x and was nodding. felt like a shit load of hydrocodone/oxycodone. As far as which 1 is cheaper per dose...SWIM would lean towards the pods bought in BULK being cheaper per dose.
unfortunately the answer is not as simple as you'd hoped.
Compared to the synthetics you mention (especially at doses you describe), i doubt you get much from either. Although, I totally understand how your research might steer you down the path of optimistic conclusions. aka 'delusions.'
Remember, there are plenty of other alkaloids present besides codeine & morphine.
While they're not generally known as being harmful or dangerous, they do seem to heavily detract from the experience.
Comparing pods to codeine, morphine, h, or any combination of them, will reveal that 'something' is definitely off.
There's just too much SOMETHING else that is very very distracting when pod tea is taken at higher and higher doses.
Try searching for thebaine's side-effect profile as i think it's present in most if not all strains.
Forgive me for not having specifics, solid evidence, or research findings. I'm just giving you some honest grounding so you won't find yourself pissing away a huge wad of cash on a false impression that pods are something they're not.
As swiy has made clear on other threads, he has found the opiate euphoria to be recently elusive even when using hydromorphone.
Swim found the poppy pod tea to make his entire body from head to toe ITCH LIKE CRAZY!! not 'traditional' opiate euphoria and itchiness.
This is a WILDLY DISTRACTING, uncomfortable rash-like experience accompanied by an organic, "dirty" feeling that lingers on the skin and in the tissues just below the skin.
this itching makes contact with clothing and furniture to be almost unbearable against the skin.
After swim takes off his clothes cuz of the irritating feel of clothing on his skin, HEBEGINS TO FEEL LIKE IMAGINARY FLIES OR MOSQUITOES ARE BUZZING AROUND HIM, AND LANDING ALL OVER HIS SKIN!! GROSS!
CAUTION with scratching. For some reason, SWIM has literally scratched and scratched the same few spots until they are exquisitely painful or on the verge of bleeding--only to forget the painful scratch trauma, and just keep re-injuring the same painful, itchy, traumatized skin.Maybe this is not what pods do to everyone... Possible explanations for this extreme, uncomfortable itching include:
The USER. Maybe it's only some people who are UNUSUALLY reactive to pods (i.e. to the thebaine content).
Thebaine. It could be that this chemical causes the discomfort in anyone if taken at high enough doses.
Allergic reaction. It could be that the experience of swim is a TRUE ALLERGY, rather than the traditional 'histamine' action that he knew very well to be a common side-effect of all opiates. granted, this is not likely to be the case, but it's still possible. swim has never knowingly ingested thebaine in any other setting.
Unusually high doses. Swiy reminds me of swim. if a little bit of something is 'okay,' then it must be true that 1000 times more of it should be 'great' or at least better...even if swim knows that this logic is usually not good, he will talk himself into pushing the envelope for another reason: because he wishes SO BADLY that he could experience the 'okay' feeling multiplied by several times over, that he'll take more and more just hoping for something better and greater and wonderful and all sorts of other unrealistic expectations, all simply based on the idea of MORE MORE MORE of the same old thing. what makes much more intelligent sense is to try something DIFFERENT if you seek results that are so much different than all your previous experiences with the same same same.
REGULAR, OPIATE-ITCHIES? (i.e. Dick is exaggerating). Here's a VERY INTERESTING FACT:
Pig drank pod tea when his opiate receptors were blocked (experiment done shortly after his daily dose of buprenorphine.) As expected, he felt NO opiate-sensations from the tea because his receptors were blocked. BUT, he DID get the exact same aggravating, nerve-wracking itch-from-hell.
also gives weird dysphoric effects at high doses...difficult to explain, but as i expect swiy to push the envelope on dosing, it is swim's humble opinion that kratom is not going to give him what he's searching for.
But, don't dismiss entirely because someone else doubts it for you. just make sure SWIY does NOT get conned into a large purchase of something that tastes like shit, and is essentially a stimulant with opiate-agonist properties.
your pup doesn't want a stimulant.
kratom is a stimulant.
sorry for negativity. i really tried to address the question, but you might find my tone to be depressing. take what you like and throw away the rest. -DICK
Last edited by Richard_smoker; 12-11-2008 at 10:05.
Pods are definitely cheaper - SWIM bought a kilo recently for not much money at all (probably the price of 3 or 4 decent-strength kratom experiences at usual online headshop prices) - that kilo should be good for about 30 good tea doses.
Richard, I'm sorry to hear about your (friend's) terrible itching - has he tried antihistamines? Or using a different strain of poppy?
Only SWIY can decide for SWIY's self what is the best. SWIM likes the pods over all else, including pharma (hydro or oxy). The opie cocktail can be itchy bad times, or... SWIM says pharmas put them in a hole that they'd rather not come out of, and pods put them up on a shelf to be admired by the world. Some SWIMmers seek that out, others prefer the hole. Having not tried kratom, SWIM will advise SWIY to take the pepsi challenge to know which one is going to be the best for them.
It's good that the negative side of pods were brought up though. It does not work for all SWIMmers.
poppy was more powerful but resulted in closed eye visuals and general smaked up morphine junkie feeling that doesn't appeal to swim on a regular basis. kratom was just pleasantly euphoric, with much more energy.
Hands down, poppies woop kratom's ass. The euphoria & analgesia last so much longer & is way stronger (obviously its a combo of morphine, thebaine, codeine, papaverine, etc..) even tho 7-mityblablabla is more potent than morphine. Also poppy pods bought in bulk are way way way way way way way cheaper per dose.
Take it from SWIM, go for the gold (poppies), I assure you SWIy will not be disappointed. Well maybe with the taste & nausea but the high is incredible & puts kratom to shame.
Mind you though, Kratom is euphoric too & can make a great high with the ability to make 1 nod at the right dose, if that's what they're into.
SWIM is dismayed to see kratom looked at as another high. It's this kind of marketing that will make it illegal. Anyway, for a PURE OPIATE experience, SWIM can't beat pods, as after all they ARE pure opiate, warts and all, thebaine, itchies etc, pods and flake opium are as close to what nature intended an opium high to be as SWIY will get without growing a hectare of poppies and harvesting the sap. In the right dose with the right pods, pod tea owns IV heroin, even.
swim has done both to a great extent but always seems to go back to poppies. The highs are similar but in my opinion very different. swim has used poppies for a couple years and can say that he can take a dose and be sure that no one around him will be aware of his intoxication. in that way the poppies have a very "clean" high for swim. there is no nervousness conversing with bosses or the like. kratom on the other hand has not been so kind to swim. it feels like "poppies with an edge". there is an anxiousness that makes swim feel like people around him know that he is intoxicated. It also doesnt allow swim to think as clearly. much more clouded and nervous thought. Poppies on the other hand are pure pleasure and do not effect swims thinking in any way. he can goto work and be a very very very productive person on poppies. not so with kratom. hope that helps.
p.s. fiveleggedrat your sig is hilarious! swim laauughed sooo hard when swim read that. grapefruit juice..... =)
SWIM started drugs in his life with Kratom. He used the extract for about a month until he stopped, because he thought he was "getting into drugs." Then the next year, he tried poppy tea. His friend prepared a cup of the tea from a single baseball-sized dried pod, and it put SWIM into a floaty, euphoric trip state for the entire day. He didn't use pods again for about 4 years, but eventually developed a habit of them. He uses them dried, ground up, and ingested as powder (chased with a beverage of choice). He has since tried kratom again on a few occasions, and while the experiences were enjoyable, they were not quite like the poppies.
That all being said, SWIM has also tried Oxy's, Codeine, and Morphine (and sadly M-done a couple times). Again, he thinks they are all enjoyable in their own right. However, personally for SWIM, he thinks pods are the way to go. In his opinion, pods tend to produce the strongest nod per dollar, as well as the most painkilling per dollar. Plus, SWIM finds that the taste and consistency tends to limit how much pods he consumes, which in turn limits his dosage, and his high, but most importantly his tolerance. Anyway, over-doing it on pods just makes him pass out hard.
He recognizes the negative aspects of the pods, such as inconsistency of dosage, the kappa-friendly extras that are in the pods that can cause some bad effects, the extra constipation, and others. SWIM thinks that in light of the cons, the fact that they are a natural product comforts him. Plus, opium users will be getting the same extra goodies as pod users, and opium is the "source" IHHO. So he maintains that pods are his favorite opiate/oid.
SWIM found itself in the same position as swiy. SWIMs best advice would be wait awhile and diminish swiys tolerance (at least a month) and then dive into poppy pods. SWIM did this same thing and found glorious results. Now, swim has tried 50 mg (snorted) oxycodone one day and then his regular amount of pods for tea the next day and found the tea to be preferable. Why? Because its more of a depressant in swims opinion. Its a lot more mellow while still retaining all of the fun if swiys get swims drift. Kratom was never enough for swim. The whole sensations was just icky. SWIMS mind was stimulated yet swims body was stimulated and sedated. SWIM tried three different varieties of kratom and all were similar enough.
This thread has inspired SWIM to move onto opium poppy tea from codeine. Thank you for the abundance of information! SWIM is just interested with the pods, where should one get some? Do stores sell them or stick with online purchase?