I really need some support, please help me - Part 114

By marathonmel7 · Nov 12, 2014 · ·
  1. Re: I really need some support, please help me (Heroin)

    Wow, what a shithole of a day. I waited all morning to see the suboxone doctors. They interviewed me intensely and decided I wasn't a good fit for their program. They decided I was too high of a risk. I am kind of dumbfounded. I am am addict, check. I am in need of help, check. I want help, check. I know what I'm doing isn't working, check. So what's the big deal. They kept pushing methadone on me and that's not what I want to do. I've been on methadone before and it was an awful experience. Plus, I am unable to make it to the clinic seven days a week for methadone. I can barely make it there one day because it is so far away and traffic is so bad. So, back to square one.

    I guess my next step is to find a doctor outside of the VA that prescribes suboxone and see if they will help me. I am trying here. I really am. I admit that my way of doing things hasn't been successful and I'm ready for a change. I am still just taking each day as it comes and doing my best for that day. I have read everyone's comments and I admit I've been on a roller coaster of using and not using and I haven't been successful at what I've been doing. No one needs to rub that in my face. I wake up to the feeling of despair and go to bed with the same feeling of despair every night. I'm trying now to do something about it but the clinic today didn't want to help me. So, onto the next route. In the meantime I am trying to keep my head above water and do the right thing.

    I had a good day yesterday. I picked my new friend up and we went to IHOP and got a free meal because it was Veteran's Day. It was good we had all kinds of food. Then we came back to my house and just talked and watched movies. Just doing something normal with someone normal was really nice. It was nice being social. No drugs involved.

    Tomorrow I have another doctor's appointment. I'm going to see if she can help me find a suboxone doctor or a program to get into. I will keep trying. What's meant to be will be.


  1. TLSJ
    Re: I really need some support, please help me (Heroin)

    Mel, first, sorry I missed it... Happy (belated) Veteran's Day! Thank you for your service.

    I'm a bit perplexed about their decision, as I'm sure you are. But they wanted you on methadone... Hmmm. The only thing I can think of is they don't offer Suboxone in a "maintenance" setting, ie, long-term, but instead only as a short-term detox, and as such they felt you need a long-term plan. I certainly could be wrong, but that's all I can offer. But it's really a moot issue, since you're going to try another doctor tomorrow.

    I'm glad to hear you talking like this. You sound better, like, you're more willing to "be real" about everything in general.

    Also good to hear. Let us know how it goes.

  2. cren
    Re: I really need some support, please help me (Heroin)

    You do need a 2nd opinion on what your treatment options are. Someone else may be able to give other options in your area.
    I can see how far you have come. You are making getting rid of this addiciton your top prioroty now where as before getting through work and school were your priorities. I am glad you are willing to accept help. You are lucky that you managed to survive the od and stay out of gaol to make it to this point. I know you are strong and have been through so much already and you can do it but why should it be hard? Also I think its not just addiciton in your situatuation.

    Have you thought about a plan b if you arent able to access the treatment options that you want? I know you are more open minded as to your treatements aswell. I think you need to discuss with the addiction specialist that you end up going to your concerns about methadone because you did manage to be stable on it for 6 months, you are clearly able to force yourself through the withdrawals and its relapsing is a very big hurdle for you.

    It makes me wonder how many other issues are at play here. How much of being opiated is stopping you from recovering from your ptsd. I know because I have it too opiates help me to cope but also stop me getting better. I know if I want to recover psychologically I have to sober up a bit. What do you think are the things that are holding you back? Do you think your ptsd is contributing?

    Like jenniferk said its dangerous to keep relapsing so it would be good to plan ahead a bit and think about what would be an alternative to your preferred choice of treatment even if its just temporary because I know organising anything medical takes time to get appointments with preferred doctors etcetera but this will be a danger period for you, also stressful if you cant get into the treatment that you want as quickly as you want. If you have some kind of plan b instead then you will be less likely to relapse and feel more incontrol having planned things ahead of time, then you wont feel so overwhelmed by the whole situation.

    Hey Mel I wish you all the best and will be thinking of you.
  3. Mick Mouse
    Re: I really need some support, please help me (Heroin)

    @TLSJ-you make a great many valid points, unfortunately some of them are not realistic. And lets leave god out of it. While I understand that these are your personal beliefs and I support your right to believe any damn thing you want to, you must understand that others here may not. For instance, my first question would be "which god"? And my second question would be "why does it have to be "He"?"

    Based on your comments, I would believe you are a firm believer in the christian messiah. Based on my comment, you could reasonably infer that I am not. And it is not "my loss", either. It has been correctly said (in my opinion) that religion is the opiate of the masses. We here are not "the masses", we are the elite-in that we recognize we have issues and are willing to deal with them, rather than hide behind a religious/political cloud. We take responsibility, rather than push it off on "god", and we don't judge others based on their internal belief system. And we know all about opiates!

    Case in point......the OP asking for help here, rather than at church.

    Do you see how such a conversation could go negative quite quickly and how this thread could become more about your version of "god" and less about the OP's question/problem?

    You have sooo much that is good with this thread and then you go off on a tangent which totally disrupts the positive statements! For instance, your comments about the war in Iraq. As a former special forces soldier, I can say that you have no idea of what you are speaking of. How would you prosecute a war without anyone getting hurt? The purpose of war is to impose your will upon others.....and people are going to get hurt and killed. The goal is to, as Patton once said, make the other bastard die for his country!

    You comments regarding suboxone are off base as well. While you readily admit you have little or no experience or knowledge of this drug, you offer your small amount as seemingly uncontestable fact. There are gaping holes in your knowledge and experience, and when your offer these without acknowledging that fact, you are quite possibly capable of causing more harm than good.

    You have obviously put a considerable amount of time and effort into this post, as well as your thoughts on this matter, and for that you are to be highly commended-this is exactly what we here want to see! So for that.....outstanding job! But in the future, please be open to consideration of how your thoughts, opinions, and beliefs could be misconstrued by others who do not necessarily believe the same things you do, in addition to offering the correct knowledge for the situation. In this instance, while I understand you were offering insight on your personal experience with suboxone, your knowledge base is not quite large enough to support your conclusions, although they may be perfectly right and valid for you.

    The key here would be to preface your statements with "in my opinion" or "in my experience". This shows the knowledge you HAVE, rather than what you think is true. And please do not take this as negative criticism! As always, you are totally free to do whatever you want! This is just me trying to point out that there is always another opinion.
  4. TLSJ
    Re: I really need some support, please help me (Heroin)

    In your opinion? Right?

    St. Dismas,

    It pretty much goes without saying that everything posted on an internet forum is the opinion of the one posting. It also pretty much goes without saying that not everything someone posts as advice is going to be received, or work, for the OP. There's a lot of misinformation posted on forums. I can't imagine anyone being naive enough to start a thread asking for help, then take every piece of advice given to them. Therefore, there's no need for you to tell me what parts of my advice I should not share. (I’m almost kind of flattered that you’re directing your disagreement to me, instead of just saying something like, “That may have worked for Tom, but I don’t agree with it.” And then maybe state “Why.”)

    You can certainly say you don't agree with something I've said, but for you to tell me what I should 'leave out of the conversation', is nothing more than you doing the same thing to me (imposing your belief system on me, your belief of 'leaving God out of it'), as you're implying I'm doing to others (imposing my beliefs.) And this "WE..." you mention... "we" take responsibility..., "we" don't push it off on God... (I never said to not take responsibility, or to "push" it off on God. Asking for His help after exhausting every avenue I could think of is doing neither)... Did I miss something when I signed up here? Do you speak for everybody? I highly doubt it. In fact, I'm sure (and no, I don't know for a fact; It's called faith: a belief not based on proof; I'd bet you have some of those yourself) people here on this site, in the throes of drug addiction, have turned to God for help. So..., no, I will NOT leave God out of it. My advice regarding God is based on evidence of things that have happened in my own life, which is absolutely no different than someone offering their advice on taking a certain combination of drugs to help one endure withdrawals. You can't prove that God doesn't exist, and I can't prove that He does. But I respectfully held off on mentioning God, and a personal example of His power in my own addiction, until Mel did. And I find it quite interesting that her mention of Him came on the heels of THE lowest point of her struggle in this thread up to that time.

    Regarding my comments about Suboxone: I never "readily admit(ted) I have little or no experience or knowledge of this drug." I said I was not knowledgeable enough to know how long she would need to be on it. I have plenty of experience and knowledge of Suboxone. And my advice that Mel needed Suboxone turned out to agree with what her counselor said, which was the main point I was trying to make anyway. If something I said was "off base" or capable of "causing more harm than good," about Suboxone, please show me exactly what you are referring to by quoting a part of my post. I did state emphatically that I felt Mel needed to be on it, and I do have enough experience and knowledge, I believe, to give that advice, based on her total lack of success going cold turkey, and the fact that she needed and wanted to be able to maintain her routine at the time. Based on what I read of her struggle, I felt (and still do) it was sound advice.

    I do get what you're saying. But what about the people who do believe the same things I do? My comments about God are the same thing we all essentially do here: Offer our own advice and suggestions based on things that worked in our own struggles. We cannot know if advice regarding God will not help someone, and I feel very confident that there are people on this site who do believe in God, therefore I feel compelled to say what I did, especially since God was mentioned first by Mel. Doing what you say I should do, could mean that someone who does have faith in God would miss hearing a potentially inspiring, and therefore possibly lifesaving, testimony. You may not want to hear someone bring God into the conversation, but I resent someone telling me I can’t.

    And as far as "correct knowledge for the situation"..., Maybe I was overly emphatic with my comments, but so far 4 people have agreed with portions of what I've said, and at the end of the day, this is an internet forum, where people post all sorts of comments, ranging from evidence from clinical research, to anecdotal advice, to absolutely horribly wrong advice. I think it's safe to say people who participate in a forum understand that they have to weigh out everything that is posted, pay attention to any parts of a post that get immediately refuted by the community, and then make their own decision as to what's best for them based on an aggregate of comments posted.

    I think if anything I've said was such "dangerous" advice, it would've been pointed out, because none of us want to see Mel take away something detrimental from anyone. People post what has worked for them, in the hope it will work for someone else. Pretty much the basic premise for how an internet forum works. And by the way, if something I’ve said was so incorrect as to be “capable of causing more harm than good”, then where is your correction? Wouldn’t it be pretty important that you set the record straight, in the interest of helping Mel, as opposed to just being heavy-handed with me?

    And I really hope that all the “instruction” you gave me is in no way fueled by some type of need you have to impose on me how you think someone should post, due in part to the fact they have a low post count.
  5. Mick Mouse
    Re: I really need some support, please help me (Heroin)

    you have pretty much proven my point better than I ever could. But sure, we can play this out for a while longer.

    Of course in my opinion. I clearly stated that. Just as I clearly stated that none of this should be taken as negative criticism, because that was not how it was intended. YOU made the choice to take it that way. And no, "pretty much everything on the internet is opinion" is not correct. I do not care about "everything on the internet", I care about this forum and the quality of the information presented here. And here, we deal in fact first. Facts save lives, while opinions tend to conflict.

    My suggestion that we leave the discussion of your personal religious beliefs out of the reply to the OP was in no way made to force you to do anything. Which I, again, clearly stated. Nor could it in any way be construed as a belief system, as you clearly try to imply in one of your many comments in parenthesis And if a intelligent person such as yourself was to read the forth paragraph of my response, they should quite easily infer that an example was being given as to "how such a conversation could go negative", and not necessarily an implication of criticism.

    The point is that YOU are not negative, nor are YOUR beliefs, but that such a conversation in an internet forum dedicated to harm reduction in the area of drug addiction could easily BECOME negative. Which you have illustrated quite nicely. And the idea of the whole "we" thing? No, I obviously do not speak for everybody. I speak for myself. But you see all of that meaningless bullshit in the upper corner next to my name when you look at my profile? That means that a great many people have agreed with what I say, be it fact or opinion. And I don't give a damn about your post count. Hell, I don't give a damn about MY post count, rep points, or any of the other "markers" used here! But a great many others here seem to think that my humble opinion might have some small use.

    Lets see, what else was there? Oh yes, turning to god. You are completely correct, a great number of people here have turned to their version of the Creator with a heart-felt plea for assistance. In fact, we have entire sub-forums dedicated to that very idea-the relationship between created and creator.

    A great many sub-forums! Have you looked into any of them?

    And yet again, leaving god out of it was merely a suggestion. As they say in the movies "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." But let me quote your words back to you "my advice regarding god is based on evidence of thing that have happened in my own life, which is absolutely no different than someone offering their own advice on taking a certain combination of drugs to help one endure withdrawals." The first half is things that happened to YOU in YOUR own life. My suggestion for that was clearly made in the last para of my post. And as for the last half of that statement, it is completely and totally different. If you do a bit of research, you will find that in a situation such as that which you allude to, it is usually made clear in the beginning that we are not doctors and we cannot diagnose medical conditions, but we can offer our opinions on what has worked in the past for our particular situation. Our opinion, clearly stated as such, and not as incontestable fact. Actually, if an answer was given in such a manner (stated as fact), a great deal of neg rep points could possibly accrue. And as a senior (in more ways than one) member, I am constantly on the look-out for people who are potentially on the edge of making an actionable mistake, so I can politely suggest another course of action before it comes back to bite them on their ass in the form of negative rep and whatnot.

    And yes, in this particular specific case, I do speak for the forum. At least for those members who have read and understood the rules. We are not doctors (even if some of us are) and we do not make on-line diagnosis. If you have a concern about your personal health, contact a medical professional immediately. We don't ID pills/substances/powders/plants. All of these, and many more, are agreed upon by the entire forum.

    But again, if you think I am bullshitting you in ANY way, do the research. You will find that everything I have said is easily verifiable.

    Moving on. Suboxone. Your comment was "However, I am not personally knowledgeable enough to know how much to use, or for how long." You continue to state that "they detoxed me using suboxone for a week" You don't consider those comments to be an ready admission? Which makes your statement regarding the comment " I said I was not knowledgeable enough to how long she would need to be on it".....factually incorrect. So, based on those statements which were made by you, my opinion was that the advice you were offering regarding a drug you said you knew little about could indeed cause more harm than good, and thus, could be considered "off-base". But now, you state "I have plenty of experience and knowledge of suboxone".

    So which is it? And why, if you do in fact have this body of knowledge (and I am NOT saying you do not), would you lead the OP to believe something by your statements in one post when or if it is not true? And the fact that your comment happened to agree with what a medical profession said is meaningless. The fact is that you are potentially misleading someone with your statements, whether overt or covert, because you made the comment without (according to your own words) "personal knowledge".

    You offered your opinion as fact. Contestable fact, obviously! But fact, nonetheless. But that is just my opinion.

    OK, so now, you "get what I'm saying". And what about the people who DO believe the same things you do? Well, for the most part, they discuss the personal spiritual aspects of their addiction in the appropriate forums. Or they make the comments in recovery journals. Or blogs. But in general, inserting your personal spiritual beliefs into someone elses recovery attempts tends to be counter-productive. And by all means offer your opinions, advice, and suggestions on things that have worked for you! But make sure they are clearly labeled as such, and not blanket statements that you assume everyone will agree with. And I didn't tell you that you could not bring god into the question. I suggested that it might be better if we left that out. Not the same thing. So don't waste time on resentment over something that didn't happen.

    "So far, 4 people have agreed with portions of what I have said." And? Far more have agreed with what I have said. So what? At the end of the day, it is not about how many people have agreed with you. And I think it is safe to safe that you appear to have very little understanding of how an internet forum devoted to harm reduction is supposed to work. Besides, if everyone agrees with you, you are not doing something right!

    "Dangerous" advice? Did I say that, or are those your words? I refer to the quote you posted of mine in your last post...."please be open to consideration of how your thoughts, opinions, and beliefs could be misconstrued....." I must have missed "dangerous" in there somewhere. In fact, I must have missed it completely, because a quick skim of my post did not have the word "dangerous" pop out to me anywhere. But it was a QUICK skim. And if you truly believe that I am being "heavy-handed" with you, heaven forbid you should ever get on the wrong side of some of our more....vocal members. If I wanted to excoriate you, you would never forget it. Trust me. Or better yet, ask around!

    So, in closing, this is an example of me being shitty and is based on your last comment. I apologize for crushing your dreams, but there is absolutely no hope whatsoever that an individual such as yourself could ever fulfill any of my needs, whether past, present, or future. Any instruction that you have been given was done solely for the purpose of up-lifting you and making you into a better person, and I compliment you on your limited ability to recognize and accept that, while graciously and humbly accepting your accolades. And I can assure you that your non-existent post count did not weigh all that heavily in my assessment of your abilities to accept instruction, but rather it is my personal belief that everyone-even you-deserves the distinct and pleasurable opportunity to benefit from my wisdom.

    And that is me being mildly shitty, it can get FAR worse. But, as you can now tell from everything except the last para (above), I chose NOT to do that. I offered suggestions and advice, and I did so in a polite and respectful manner, and with an eye towards being helpful. It was your choice to take it in the manner in which you did.

    So, allow me to respectfully offer one last piece of advice.....Lets end this here. It is my hope that we have now cleared up any misunderstandings in the comments that have been made, and other than for spite, there is no useful purpose to be served in continuing this line of discussion or in this section of the forum, other than to serve as a distraction to the OP. If you wish to continue this line of thought. please contact me via direct message or in one of the appropriate sub-forums.
  6. john123470
    Re: I really need some support, please help me (Heroin)

    here we go. Two ‘grown’ men (100+ years experience between them) have a spat in the middle of a thread about a girl trying to give up heroin. One man believes in God, and the other, calling himself after a Saint, really and truly doesn’t. So we and the OP are treated to a knock down drag out – 17 paragraphs the Saint wrote in his last entry. Wtf ! … What is the OP supposed to read into this ? Is she expected to trawl thru 17 paragraphs to decipher why the Saint is annoyed with the man who believes in God ??!!

    The OP was just beginning to see how certain methods were not working for her and willing to review her approach. And now this !

    Who cares about semantics or if God exists or no .. this is not the place to trash it out.

    I think TLSJ injected some reality into the picture and I’m sure the OP will take the bits that are helpful and leave the rest.

    Meanwhile if 2 posters disagree to agree, can it not be done by private messaging. Surely, it is the welfare of the OP we are concerned with.

    I look on the bright side and imagine Mel is having a good hearty laugh at the pair of you ;)
To make a comment simply sign up and become a member!