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Drug info - 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Discussion in 'Opioid RC's' started by Picass035, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Picass035

    Picass035

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    SWIM has done some research, and has come up with quite a few opioids that are LEGAL worldwide. Here are SWIM's findings:

    1) W-18 (aka: 1-(4-Nitrophenylethyl)piperidylidene-2-(4-chlorophenyl)sulfonamide) <--10,000x more potent than morphine

    2)
    BDPC, Bromadol (aka: 4-(p-Bromophenyl)-4-(dimethylamino)-1-phenethylcyclohexanol) <-- also around 10,000x more potent than morphine

    3) Herkinorin (Salvinorin A analog reported to be around 100 times more potent than morphine)


    4) O-Desmethyl-Tramadol (a lot of information already exists on this compound so no need to go into details.)

    So why aren't we seeing these compounds around? One would think that being legal, and at their super high potency that dealers would be all over them as they could be legally purchased in bulk from companies in China for example for super-cheap (where 99.9% of all RCs come from anyways).

    Question is, actually how good are these compounds since AFAIK, no one has even heard of them? hopefully they'll be available in the RC scene soon. And hopefully they will come pre-cut. If it not cut, a mere microscopic particle that falls on your skin would kill you (just like with fentanyl which is only 100x more potent in comparison. We're talking about compounds 100x more potent than fentanyl itself here = super dangerous).

    SS
     
  2. Balzafire

    Balzafire Palladium Member

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    Swim thinks anyone in their right mind would never sell these drugs to anyone, much less take them. Call swim a sissy..... but he likes this whole sucking in air and having a heartbeat thing...
     
  3. divinemomentsoftruth

    divinemomentsoftruth Silver Member

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    The average drug user would have no idea how to use these compounds. Fentanyl itself has caused so many deaths because it was sold as heroin or abused from the patch. Cutting these substances, especially something that's 10,000 times more powerful than morphine won't make it much safer for an ill-informed user or anyone for that matter.
     
  4. RaverHippie

    RaverHippie Gold Member

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    O-desmethyl-tramadol has been outlawed in a few places I believe. Do a search for "Krypton" Kratom.

    This wishful thinking involved here is overwhelming. "Please chinese chemical supplier, make me a difficult to synthesize product and then package it in a way that won't hurt me"
     
  5. tsm554

    tsm554 Newbie

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    best way to get very small amounts of a substance is to dissolve a known amount in a large amount of water, mix well then measure out the right amount of water
     
  6. Pieces Mended

    Pieces Mended Silver Member

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    SWIM really doesn't know how you cut something like this if you were going to try it yourself or as a dealer. You'd be taking a quantity the size of an aspirin tablet and producing tens of thousands of doses from that? Geezus... search and read how many users incorrectly measured phenazepam and woke up 2 days later. People can't get that correct and the dosage is actually easy to get correct with a $20 Chinese mg scale

    There would be no possible way to cut these with other solids. They would have to be dissolved in liquid in an extremely thorough manner, then packaged as individual doses. It is possible to do all of this SWIM is sure- but he is also pretty sure it would take equipment that only drug manufacturers have the ability to purchase. By the time all was said and done, the cost would be insane and governments would outlaw the substances as soon as the first death (sometime around day 2 of availability) took place.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2010
  7. Phenoxide

    Phenoxide Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Even with volumetric measurement, some of these compounds are so potent that there'd be substantial room for error. The idea of these being manufactured by clandestine labs makes it all the more worrying because of the variability from batch to batch due to lack of quality control. At least pharmaceutical fentanyl is consistently pure. If someone went from a set dose of a 10% pure batch to using the same dose of a 70% pure batch, that could be a fatal overdose in the making.

    I'd have to agree with some of the other posters here that certain substances cannot be safely distributed for self-administration, and these fall into that category. The questionable benefits (are there any?) of super potent opioids are outweighed by the massive risks in my opinion.

    Not quite sure this is accurate. I suspect what you meant to say is that Herkinorin has around 100x greater ยต-opioid receptor binding affinity than Salvinorin A rather than morphine.
     
  8. sterling77

    sterling77 Iridium Member

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    A lot of these novel opiates aren't even too much fun. Many of them have a lot of delta activity which makes them a bit dissociative. On top of that, the super potent opiates tend to not be as euphoric even if they are purely mu agonists.
     
  9. xenos

    xenos Titanium Member

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    I think biggest example of wishful thinking in this thread is the assumption that these chemicals aren't already on the "streets" sold as heroin or in clandestine-lab-made pharmaceutical pain killers. Many dealers that know about these chemicals would probably know how to cut them and/or press them. Just pointing out the possibility, like the OP said, why not? At least in the money-making perspective. If its cut "correctly", it would not create more overdoses theoretically.
     
  10. Phenoxide

    Phenoxide Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Is there any evidence from a forensic analysis or post-mortem toxicology report to suggest that such compounds have been found in street heroin? This is certainly the case for fentanyl analogues, but I do not recall ever seeing anything to suggest the same is true of these compounds.

    If there is evidence of this, I'd be very interested to see it as this would be most concerning. If there is no evidence, let's not start scaremongering just because something is not outside the realms of possibility.

    Therein lies the problem. Cutting correctly with super potent compounds is challenging, especially if done as part of mass manufacture. It requires accurate and precise instrumentation, which it is fair to say is beyond the kit available to the typical underground lab or street level dealer. One only needs to look at deaths associated with alpha-methylfentanyl (China White) to see that theory does not always hold up in practice.

    Additionally, price is not necessarily the sole driving force of the market. Safety margins are a consideration, both for manufacturers and consumers. For example, 2C-B is far more widely distributed that its potent cousins DOB and bromo-dragonFLY because it is easier to dose, safer, and in many people's opinions, a more pleasant experience. Just because something is cheaper to manufacture by the kilo doesn't necessarily make it an attractive proposition and highly profitable product.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  11. Picass035

    Picass035

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    As has been stated if "cut" correctly, it should be safe.

    SWIM's point though, is that the first two compounds are 100% LEGAL, which makes it very attractive for many (including SWIM).

    Oh and <Phenoxide> is quite right regarding "Herkinorin". It's not 100x more potent than morphine, just has 100x more affinity for the mu receptor in comparison. SWIM isn't really sure how potent this compound is. Would be interesting to find out though...

    SS

    Spaceman_Surgeon added 20 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

    Plus, SWIM felt this was important, in China, they use Dihydroetorphine for opiate maintenance over bupe/methadone like in the States. This compound can be up to 12,000x the potency of morphine depending on metabolism and a few other factors as well. Minimum potency is 1,000x the strength of morphine (according to Wiki at least).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  12. sterling77

    sterling77 Iridium Member

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    People who knew what they were doing with fentanyl still killed many people while cutting it. With some of these compounds it's a whole different situation. Some are so potent that thousands have died from it being sold as heroin, even while the distributor thought he knew what he was doing. I think this is very sad, personally.

    On top of that, for the super potent ones the addiction liabilities are different. Rapid tolerance develops quicker than the classic opiates everyone is familiar with, and the ceiling to it is different too. You can fuck yourself and your brain on some of these, on a whole other level. Intelligent, level headed people who have made fentanyl analogues have gotten addicted to them and commited suicide during withdrawels. The nature of these addictions can be an entirely different beast to other opiate addictions, and can skyrocket quicker also. Ignoring the cutting/overdose aspect, the concept of distributing or even promoting the accesibility of them is a moral issue one should strongly analyze.

    For some of these novel structures, we don't really know how they metabolize or what implications this has for your health. Many of these are very different compounds, not just another minor variation on the morphine structure for example. They could have all sorts of unknown effects or toxicity to your body, which would easily become an issue if addiction took place.

    Also, be mindful of the LD50 of each of these, some novel opiates could have a very low therapeutic index which makes them more dangerous. Drugs like these are usually not marketed in the pharmaceutical world. Some novel opiates have been researched by pharmaceutical companies, but rejected as drug candidates due to various reasons.

    A final point I'd like to make is that these compounds are a major threat to research chemicals if they were marketed. These would get a lot of attention and obviously become illegal overnight. Look at JWH, it is already being banned worldwide and it is not a highly addictive and lethal drug. If some opiates start hitting the RC market then they would very possibly bring down many other RCs. Many analogues in the USA could become explicitly scheduled. Posting threads like this might not help avoid this; these are just some thoughts though.

    But on a different note, novel opiates are definitely an exciting topic!
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  13. xenos

    xenos Titanium Member

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    It should definitely be made clear that messing around with tryptamine and phenethylamine variations is dangerous as it is, and that experimenting with new opioids(?) is a whole new ballgame.
     
  14. fiveleggedrat

    fiveleggedrat Palladium Member

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    People still cannot largely utilize and self administer any of the older opiates, namely heroin/morphine.

    Why would one wish any type of ultra-potent opioid on the populace? Mass overdose and death would occur, and opioids will become even more scorned than they are.

    Cannabinoids don't cause death. Most other RC's that make their way around are miligram to gram level, none are really microgram level.

    No microgram opioids on the street!

    If all dosed like codeine in terms of mass, opioids would be way considered way less evil.
     
  15. Pieces Mended

    Pieces Mended Silver Member

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    SWIM entirely agrees with this. The amount of OD deaths would be reduced ten-fold. They would also be considered less evil if they were all administered orally such as codeine, not diluted and shot-up like so many street opiods.
     
  16. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

    By the Cats opinion it is not the matter of the Potency how well a Opioid is kicking in,
    in example Fentanyl!
    Fenta. do not satisfied her.

    The Cat loved Heroin and not something 100 or even 30.000 times stronger!

    The Potency will tell us nothing about the Nodding-quality!
     
  17. Lady Codone

    Lady Codone Titanium Member

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    SWIM might consider trying these opiates...if she were a horse.

    Seriously, SWIM can't imagine risking her life for a high--any high. Anyone who's not a chemist/medical professional would not be able to use such substances safely and would either have a miserable time from the side effects or die from overdose. They're interesting to read about though.
     
  18. Picass035

    Picass035

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    SWIM completely agrees. If you're not in a position where you have the know-how on handling these compounds properly, then don't even THINK about touch them. Just go along your way and dream about them as dreams can't hurt you..or can they?

    Back to the point, SWIM has the necessary skills, a fully enclosed bodysuit with respirator, and knows how to cut such compounds so that they are safe for handling. If 1 gram of a product 10,000x the potency of morphine is acquired, SWIM reckons he would need at least a kilo of cut so that each gram, would be approx 10mg (unless SWIM's math is wrong). If it, PLEASE someone correct SWIM..he is very tired...
     
  19. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

    Enjoy, survive and Report!

    What the Swiny will do afterwards?

    A Addiction do this Stuff will made swiny feels really, really bad :confused:
    Think about a Withdrawal 10.000 Times quicker and 10.000 Times harder :(
     
  20. Aerokinetic

    Aerokinetic Silver Member

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    SWIM is fairly certain that it's the potency and microscopic size of these drugs that make them so rare.