Drug info - 2-DPMP / Desoxypipradrol

Discussion in 'Research Chemicals' started by fastandbulbous, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. fastandbulbous

    fastandbulbous Titanium Member

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    Anybody tried this yet? What sort of dosages are being considered, just from what I've heard from some people, anything beyond the 20mg mark gets to be far too much to cope with comfortably.

    It seems that most people are considering 5-10mg to be the optimum dose
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2010
  2. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    when posting dosages, please also mention route of admin.

    hopefully this pipradrol rework will prove more rewarding to the dopafiend rats than the D2PM which they found virtually without merit.
     
  3. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    I have seen some discussion re: this substance, and is more than a little concerned about its duration of action (24-48 hours). His main worry is that at recreational doses, the half life will end up being far too long for comfort -- thus killing the whole idea of using it recreationally. I suppose it depends on a given lab animal's perception of what "recreation" means, stimulant-wise...

    P.S. I have access to some of this stuff, but is not ready to begin researching it yet. Maybe in a few days, maybe a week, maybe two, depending on his sleep schedule and such... clearly this is one substance that demands respect and careful planning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2007
  4. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Initial research (very simple compound to figure out, actually)...

    I had not planned to, but ended up beginning research on this substance earlier today.

    SWIM's impressions so far (which he does not expect to change much):

    Desoxypipradrol's primary mechanism of action appears to be CNS inhibition of norepinephrine reuptake, with much less (but probably still some) influence on dopamine, and likely no effects on serotonin at all. At normal doses there are few to no peripheral sympathomimetic side effects (such as elevated heart rate and blood pressure), and surprisingly little appetite suppression. At higher doses, excessive CNS norepinephrine may result in anxiety, restlessness, tachycardia, anorexia, insomnia, hyperhidrosis and transitory hypertension.

    In SWIM's opinion, desoxypipradrol fits the "functional stimulant" category very well. However, it falls short of making the grade from a recreational standpoint. It also fails to provide the strong boost in focus/concentration offered by drugs (such as Ritalin and Adderall) commonly prescribed for attention deficit disorders. At least, it did not produce any such intense focus in SWIM's lab animals.

    The general lack of appetite suppression, increased sexual desire, intensive focus on repetititive tasks, and compulsivity (i.e. "jonesing") are key indicators of this drug's weak-to-nonexistent influence on dopamine levels in the brain.

    Given cautious and respectful dosing, SWIM think desoxypipradrol might make a good study aid, motivational aid (i.e. getting things done that have been procrastinated) and general wakefulness-promoting agent. The latter may be especially useful in situations involving extended operation of hazardous machinery (e.g. long automobile trips), as wakefulness and mental clarity appear to be maintained despite mild to moderate levels of sleep deprivation.

    There may be a few who find its effects enjoyable enough to take for fun, but SWIM strongly suspects it will never catch on with recreational stimulant users in general... the prerequisite, critically important focus on dopamine and/or serotonin is absent.

    ISE, any euphoria produced by this substance is sporadic, unpredictable and may be punctuated by stretches of anxiety and dysphoric overstimulation. The drug's effects on mood appear similarly unpredictable and based on such factors as dosage, set/setting and the user's physical and mental health prior to ingestion. Feelings of foreboding and a sense of impending doom have been reported. Due to the drug's very long duration, high doses and/or repeated redosing appears to carry a risk of panic attacks, paranoia, delirium, confusion, akathisia, rapid mood swings and other mental health problems.

    ISO, this substance resembles drugs such as Strattera (atomoxetine) and Edronax (reboxetine) more closely than it does methylphenidate or amphetamine, with the primary differences being desoxypipradrol's high potency, rapid onset of effects and extra long half-life. Unfortunately, this latter quality (a purported 24-48 hour duration) may nix many potential benefits and end up quickly sending the drug back into obscurity and obsolescence.

    I'm sure there will be some who disagree with these conclusions, and I would enjoy further discussion of the subject.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2007
  5. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    Seems very likely that it would. I would certainly not take any chances in that regard.
     
  6. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    ^very informative report, Senor Nicaine.

    are claims to duration proving accurate? doses and methods used? how does activity compare to the R2D2 (you know whatamine) variety?

    the foreboding feelings induced, that is a disconcerting thought. please report on sleep effects - when able, of course ;-)
     
  7. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    Nothing definitive re: duration, but it does seem to last a very long time. Other than potential loss of sleep, it's not too big a deal; acute effects (e.g. rushes from snorting/smoking) tend to drop off to a steady baseline rather quickly. That said, it's good to have some downers around when doing this stuff, unless one is very cautious and conservative dosage-wise.

    Re: methods of admin, this is a very versatile subbie. Snorting, smoking, plugging, eating and injecting are all viable methods of ingestion. A good starting dosage is probably 10mg for stimulant fans, 1-4mg for stimulant virgins. Tolerance is reputed to build very quickly. It feels a little bit like "geranamine" centrally, but totally lacks the peripheral effects; In other words, it makes the mind happy and leaves the body alone. Very, very smooth stimulation, probably the smoothest I have ever experienced.

    From what I've read, this (foreboding, anxiety, paranoia and such) seems to occur mainly with inadvisably heavy use, which we all know a sizeable minority of stimulant users just can't resist. Downers (benzos, GHB, GBL, gabapentin, pregabalin, etc) are probably necessary if one happens to engage in such activities. Unfortunately, ISO the stuff is not very recreational unless abused (I amn't recommending that of course, just making an observation). Given the duration of effects, I feel that sleep deprivation could become a real danger very quickly, thus he doesn't think this substance is a wise choice for recreation. It works out much better as an energizing and wakefulness-promoting drug, and I think it could be VERY useful in that regard. He actually got a bunch of crap (cleaning, etc) done today that he'd been procrastinating for ages.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2007
  8. fastandbulbous

    fastandbulbous Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    Trying not to influence others reporting dosages consumed, but honestly report. It's incredibly potent and 5-10mg might be a bit much even for some people

    It's actually primarily a dopamine reuptake inhibitor and there are several papers detailing it's activity at the dopamine transporter
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
  9. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    (1) I am an old timer on Usenet and other forum(s) similar to this one. (2) ISO releasing this stuff to the Research Chemical community was unwise, although the substance has been around for ages and was never hard to acquire -- just obscure, and for good reasons. I have observed the most experienced 1% of researchers hinting at some level of problems dealing with it. No supporting evidence, just a casual opinion -- take for whatever it's worth.
     
  10. NeonCortex

    NeonCortex Silver Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    What kind of "problems dealing with it"? The dose and t1/2, problems from the long action?

    I can imagine problems occuring. The high potency and long half life makes it a substance that requires some respect and carefulness, which are characteristics generally lacking in the drug using public. Diphenylprolinol is a good example, but somewhat different considering the characteristics of that substance which can lead to staggering doses in the futile chase of euphoria - leading to bad reactions.

    This a substance for the connoisseurs!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2007
  11. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    What is the full name of this formula?

    The dose for this monster is 1 -4 mg's. I'd not go near the thing personally. But to each their own.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2007
  12. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    2-benzhydrylpiperidine hydrochloride. Molecular formula is C18H21N*HCl. CAS# 5807-81-8. If my data is correct. I didn't double check via CAS lookup. Re: going near, SWIM hopes nobody really treats themselves as guinea pigs with some of these compounds, but it's probably a false hope.
     
  13. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    D&D - doom & dread. Sounds like a catchy name! I'll call marketing in the am.
     
  14. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    SWIM read posts from (or talked to) researcher(s) who he believes are among the most experienced in the Research Chemical community in terms of dealing with stimulants and various issues commonly associated with them. The researcher(s) I am referring to noted experiencing non-trivial problems of one sort or another dealing with this substance, despite their vast experience with stimulants. If they had problems, logic suggests that less experienced researchers will have problems too, and quite likely less resources available to cope with them. That's why I think it was unwise, although appearance of a Research Chemical involves too many factors to blame anyone. Perhaps I should have worded it thus: He thinks it's regrettable it appeared on the scene, and hopes for the best in terms of outcome.
    I am not familiar with every Research Chemical or similar substance, and his familiarity (and type of familiarity) varies among substances. Hopefully clear as applicable to any/every researcher.He's not too familiar with DOX's/dragonflies, and didn't bother with BZP's due to illegality in his country of the parent compound and uninteresting qualities of the others. In terms of stimulants, I believe methylone to be moderately compulsive but relatively benign. MDPV, highly compulsive but otherwise relatively benign. Desoxypipradrol, benign in terms of LD50 but combined potency + half-life increase risks to 'unacceptable' levels. Just his opinion.
    Taken to human trials under highly controlled conditions in terms of dosage and frequency of use. Then rejected as a pharmaceutical drug. As an "RC" -- typical arrival might be 500mg envelope (125 to 500 clinical doses of 24 hour duration each), conditions completely uncontrolled and unknown. Receiver might immediately swallow the whole envelope just for fun, who knows? This may sound insulting to researchers, but wasn't there just talk about massive OD's of another Research Chemical resulting in hospital admissions?

    I said his piece now about this substance, he has nothing more to add. Thanks for the discussion, it's fun.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2007
  15. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    OK, I will add one final observation (despite talking too much already, sorry for boring anyone to death). A significant factor determining safety of a stimulant is how it 'scales' dosage-wise. Both MDPV and methylone are self-limiting in that regard. Methylone does nothing after some point, and MDPV feels terrible if a sane dosage is exceeded. No final story has been told on desoxypipradrol, but preliminary observations point to 'scalability' similar to cocaine or methamphetamine, i.e. very high. And as dosage goes up, duration of effects seems to increase quite a bit too. Doesn't that worry anybody? :confused:

    Thanks again for the conversation, very enjoyable!
     
  16. NeonCortex

    NeonCortex Silver Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    Yes, that aspect worries me too. When I speak of the clinical trials and what they mean safetywise I'm not really considering unsane dosages, but rather the distribution, metabolism and toxicity of the compound. IMO things could turn out very bad if this compound became marketed to the main stream.
     
  17. NeonCortex

    NeonCortex Silver Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    It very likely to show positive for pipradrol. It is however unlikely to be tested for pipradrol.

    I can't remember if tertiary carbons are metabolically oxidized. Anyone else?
     
  18. spacehippi13

    spacehippi13 Silver Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    Does anyone know how this substance breaks down in the body, in reference to drug testing?--is it an amphetamine? methamphetamine? etc?
    Will it show up on a drug test at all? (The type of drug test, to which I refer, would be the kind administered by the American Government, during a probation meeting etc--not sure what all they test for during such a test. I saw that it might show up as a false positive for pipradrol, but is that even tested for and if so, what broader category is it in--amphetamine, methamphetamin, opiate etc????)

    How long does it stay in the body--in regards to showing up on a drug test, not the time the effects can actually be felt.

    I really appreciate any factual information on this topic and/or suggestions as to where accurate information on this topic might be found. Thanks very much! Happi day!
     
  19. spacehippi13

    spacehippi13 Silver Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    By the way, I would like to add that this substance is an ideal for people who like stimulants and want to stay up for as long as possible (not sure why someone would want to take a stimulant if they didn't want to stay awake, but hey, that's just an opinion) It is also a good substitute and/or suppliment to crystal meth, but the 5-10mg dosage should be followed, so that it doesn't become uncomfortable during the initial hours after intake. It promotes "do things" mode, doesn't affect appitite, doesn't create jonesing feeling or crack out in the come down stage, doesn't create feeling for needing another dosage until it wears off. Sleep was easily possible anytime after the dosage, except during the initial few hours after intake, and after waking, the effects were still pleasantly in effect. I've seen all sorts of posts that people couldn't sleep, blah, blah, blah, but I seriously can't figure out why they would take a stimulant if they wanted to sleep, so I say again, that this substance is probably best for people who like to stay awake. All in all go for it if you want to stay up. I will say that there are slightly varied, mild, side effects in some people....slight headache, stomach ache, chest hurting, slight numbness in hands and feet, slight nose bleed the next day. This being said...please be responsible and start with a small dose--5mg max to interface with the substance initially until you know how your body will react with it. I was told that 5mg would last 24 hours, but redose was required before 24 hours in order to stay awake--this must be a variable for different people's body chemistry. If there are any questions about personal experience on the substance, I will be happi to provide more information. Happi day!
     
  20. spacehippi13

    spacehippi13 Silver Member

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    Re: Desoxypipradrol

    One more thing.....in regards to being willing to provide more information about personal experience.....this information is from Swim originally and I would just be passing it along. It is NOT my own personal experience. Thanx