Comedown - 2C-E and other phenethylamines toxicity

Discussion in 'Phenethylamines' started by Niteflights, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. Niteflights

    Niteflights Titanium Member

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    After an initial test with 2CE, my test monkey has exhibited severe exhaustion and basically lost the following day due to extreme lethargy.

    Knowing that the classic phenethylamine MDMA has causes significant neurochemical changes and come down/depression for several days after use, I was wondering if any similar findings have been made for the other phenethylamines. It appears 2c-b is somewhat similar in it's effects. It seems logical to reason that the 2c-s share some of the dopamine depleting characteristics of MDMA.

    I wonder if anyone has found the supplementing with the typical pre-roll supplements (antioxidants, 5-htp, deprenyl. etc) has had a beneficial effect with lessening the after effects of 2c's.

    Cheers,
    Niteflights
     
    1. 3/5,
      Interesting post...helpful
      Aug 25, 2006
  2. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    What dose was taken in this unfortuitous experience?

    On occasion the use of 2C-x chemicals has proved to produce next-day effects (a hangover of sorts) for SWIM, but to answer your basic question, these drugs are not known to cause a "release" of serotonin like MDMA - rather, they seem to mainly be 5-HT agonists in the manner of the "traditional" psychedelics (psilocybin, mescaline, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2006
    1. 3/5,
      helpful
      Aug 28, 2006
  3. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    au contriaire mon frere, 2Cs (of course with some exceptions) used as intended, (therapeutically) produce lasting health benefits of note.

    that or serious damage to the cognitive-emotional-transpersonal state of the abuser.

    signs of bodily malaise with pure material administered in a proper set and setting are usually indications of disrupted psychosomatic homeostasis and should be heeded lest illness develop.
     
  4. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    However, if your Tarantula usually awakes at 7:00am and decides to take some 2-Cx at 8:00pm that night - and stays up until 4:00am - the poor widdle 8-Legged Voyager will be a burnt mess the next day if it follows it's usual schedule.
     
  5. grandbaby

    grandbaby Titanium Member

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    That is a very dubious statement. Not to mention irresponsible - surely you were being sarcastic (?) - but it'd be easy for someone to read this statement as a "straight" comment, and might be inclined to believe it wholesale, coming as it does from a karmapoliceman of unimpeachable reputation.

    The truth is, of course, that nothing is known of the long-term effects of 2C use (aside from, possibly, 2C-B); forty years down the road all users of such could be stricken with incurable nymphomania, or spontaneous combustion of the pancreas, or anything at all.

    Surely what you meant was that some users of some 2C compounds have reported health benefits.

    And if that's true, I'd like to hear about them, for sure. Got links? Cheers.

    ****

    edit: Whoops, I missed this line:
    Glad I didn't ding your rep. Nonetheless, I'll let the above comments stand, just for shits and/or giggles.
     
    1. 5/5,
      responsible and realistic view, brutal honesty is more valuable then what we all want to hear
      Sep 25, 2006
  6. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    without digressing into semantical swamps full of militant grammarian sharks, i urge you to reread my words which suggest no impropriety.

    and the truth is we know quite abit about long term use, rather more (not brute population n counts) about the long term effects of say 2C-B than we do about Prozac...

    i stand by what i say, and am betting my left nut so would Sasha and Myron.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2006
  7. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    But brute population & counts are an important issue IMO in establishing safety.

    Damn nano, you make sure I do not abandon Websters.
     
  8. acolon_5

    acolon_5 Gold Member

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    I have found this "2C Hangover" to be very proportional to what time the 2C was taken, weather or not 5-HTP was taken or not, and of course what I did while on the 2C, ie more activity = more hangover.

    I have also found that eating plays an important role in how he and his G/F feels the next day. SWIM usually does not have any urge to eat whilst on the 2C's but if he forces himself to eat as he normally would and makes sure he has a small snack before going to bed that his hangover the next day is lessened.

    ALSO, SWIM always takes 2-4mgs of Lunesta before attempting to go to sleep...if SWIM or his G/F does not take Lunesta they are guar-on-Teed to have a really rough day the next day....Sleep is always difficult and disturbed when on 2C's and the Lunesta just knocks him out so he can get a normal REM pattern sleep, instead of the light non REM sleep he would normally have.

    Another note: SWIM and his G/F only take Lunesta for 2C + Tryptamine sleep...otherwise they take a daily dose of melatonin. Another interesting thing I have noticed is that since starting the daily melatonin his hangovers have drasticlly been lessened. It probably acts as a pre-dose similar to the 5-HTP as melatonin is a precursor to a seratonin (thanks for teaching me about this nagognog2!)
     
  9. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    These compounds do not cause a release (or subsequent depletion) of serotonin, so I don't see why 5-HTP would really help. Not to discourage you from taking it, I just think it's probably placebo. 2C-x drugs are serotonin agonists in the manner of the traditional psychedelics, they do not act like MDMA.

    Melatonin is not a precursor to serotonin, you've got it backwards. Serotonin is a precursor for melatonin.

    5-HTP -> 5-HT (serotonin) -> melatonin
     
  10. acolon_5

    acolon_5 Gold Member

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    Ah damn.....so let me see If I get this straight...5-HTP is converted into seratonin, and then seratonin is converted into melatonin...hmmmm...
    interesting. Does that mean that by pre-dosing on 5-HTP will actually help with the bodys natural production of melatonin? Would this mean that taking both on a daily basis would introduce too much melatonin in the brain? and if this is the case would there be any side effects from this excess melatonin?
     
  11. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I'm not sure if you were replying to me, but I don't see a big difference between the phrases "on occasion" and "with some exception".
     
  12. glogga

    glogga Newbie

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    I don't experience any sort of hangover with the 2c-xx. Certainly not like MDMA.
     
    1. 1/5,
      Self incrimination, read the rules!
      Sep 16, 2006
  13. El Calico Loco

    El Calico Loco Gold Member

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    I don't have any sort of hangovers from 2C-I, 2C-C, or 2C-E. He has often stayed up all night after a 30mg 2C-E experience and felt great the entire day, even at work.

    Even a 3rd plateau DXM experience gives only a mild hangover (some brain fog the next day). Of course, he eats his veggies, exercises, sleeps late, takes vitamins daily, and takes DMAE and/or Piracetam every other day or so. He also drinks ethanol a couple of times a week and smokes tobacco like a fiend. :)

    The only weirdness he's noticed is when using 2C-I: a strange tension in the muscles on the front of his thighs, just above the knee. Only with 2C-I, and only those particular muscles, and not every time. Odd.
     
  14. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    mind you, the local researchers prefer circadian homeostasis, so its morning / daytime only for experimentaation with the stronger / longer ones. with at least a day for proper integration set aside.
     
  15. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    What SWIM and his partner experience may not be properly termed a "hangover", they just mean some sort of effect (often a bit of lethargy and desire to talk a lot about odd subject matter) which would make them prefer not to have anything important to do the next day. Certainly not the variety of after-effects associated with alcohol (with which the word hangover is strongly associated), nor anywhere near to the level of the variety associated with MDMA.

    They said that in general the after-effects were no more than from say, mushrooms. In their experience, next day effects were noticable most in this order: 2C-C > 2C-B > 2C-D (but they have very little experience with 2C-B taken by itself, so it's position may not be correct).

    I think that a lot of people would call the typical after-effects of psychedelics a "hangover" without attaching a negative connotation to that term, and perhaps this is wrong?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2006
  16. Each Hit

    Each Hit Gold Member

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    swim prefers the term 'afterglow,' but that's all just semantics, really.

    I noticed similar effects after 2c-i and 2c-e: unusual discussions (sometimes very interesting and insightful) and a very slight spaciness. then again, I has only used them at night so far, so sleep (or lack thereof) may have been an important factor.
     
  17. glogga

    glogga Newbie

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    If you have stressful work that you have to get done after your trip then its a "hangover". OTOH if you are just laying back and relaxing after your trip then its an "afterglow". :)
     
  18. dr ACE

    dr ACE Titanium Member

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    swims heard of people taking too much 2-c-t2 before all the major busts in the U.S and having permanent spots and tracers in their vision after wards not sure how much of this is/was propaganda.guess its just if your stupid/naive with it and dont really have any idea at all what it is your dealing with and basics of its actions upon your own mental chemistry
     
  19. Each Hit

    Each Hit Gold Member

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    I has heard similar anecdotes, actually. he has noticed that even on moderate doses, he can have some mild lingering visual effects for a day or two. he would imagine that going overboard on a substance would increase the duration of any negative aftereffects (possibly to permanence, but there's very little evidence, so the jury's still out).
     
  20. fastandbulbous

    fastandbulbous Titanium Member

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    Just to say, hangover, feeling shitty etc does not equate with neurotoxicity. LSD can leave you feeling completely drained and washed out, but is accepted as being non-neurotoxic. In contrast, a double measure of spirits might not produce any noticable after effect, but is certainly neurotoxic (alcohol is just about the worst offender going).

    You cannot determine if a compound is neurotoic without running a battery of tests involving fMRI, NMR, and the sort of tests that stem from autopsies except in extreme cases like that of MPTP (whicj are rare as hens teeth)