Dose - 2g GHB Overdose vs. Poisoning. naked, pissing, slamming head on desk. normal?

Discussion in 'GHB' started by Richard_smoker, Feb 9, 2006.

  1. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Gold Member

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    I know, peope are going to tell me UTFSE!

    But, I have used it and I didn't like what it had to say about the fine line between GHB overdose and GHB poisoning. I know everyone's different and I also know that many people have woken up in an ER totally fine, because their friends thought they were having a seizure or an overdose and were going to die.

    Let me just tell you all a story...

    SWIM'S STORY:
    I was gone on a business-type trip for about 2 weeks. Although he had been a regular user of GHB prior to the trip (for about 3-4 weeks) and never really had any problems before.

    In fact, he didn't even take any GHB with him on his 2 week long trip.

    Well, when he arrived back home, he took what he thought was a NORMAL sleeping dose--around 2g of GHB. Here comes the embarrassing part:

    Well, SWIM's girlfriend was asleep in the other room, and I was trying to watch some porno on his computer and wanker-off before the G totally kicked in and so, he could go to bed.

    Well, last thing I know, he was watching the porn, and thinking to himself, "this isn't going to work, I need to just go to bed"

    NEXT THING SWIM KNOWS: his girlfriend is yelling uncontrollably at him. he's lying naked in his floor. there's a cold wetness all over his body, and he's trying to stand up to console his girlfriend.

    GIRLFRIEND'S STORY: This is her story AFTER she quit acting like an insane maniac and started telling the story. First of all, she was awakened by a BANG! BANG! BANG! she walked into his room and there was naked SWIM on the floor, pissing everywhere, and banging his head on a HEAVY wooden desk.

    it was about this time that swim realized that his head was KILLING HIM!

    She didn't think to put a pillow between swim's head and the desk, and she was trying to control his arms, etc. well, finally he stopped banging his head and just laid there. Finally, she stopped holding him down, and went to sleep on the couch by him. Then, somehow about 3 hours later, they both woke up at the same time and she started in with the yelling.

    The "seizure" that she described were rhythmic, slow and HARD. she said she wasn't strong enough to stop him from slamming his head on the desk.

    CONCLUSION:
    I know that GHB has a strong dose-response curve. I also know that the 2 weeks off could have destroyed some kind of tolerance that had built up over the previous month of regular use.

    My questions: can 2 grams (2 DOSES; i.e. 10ml of heavily diluted GHB) cause an overdose?
    also, what's up with this pissing all over himself???
    I know this couldn't be NORMAL, but has this happened to anyone here??

    SWIM's head hurt for days. He felt like he might have cracked his skull or something because he couldn't see really straight for another 2 days. Can someone advise me on this situation because i don't want ANYONE else to experience this if I can prevent it.
     
  2. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Gold Member

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    this is important detail. couldn't figure out how to edit.
    SWIM's weight: 220 pounds, 100 kilos.
     
  3. Senor Gribson

    Senor Gribson Titanium Member

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    does swim know if this was exactly the same ghb he had used before? You only weighs 150 lb, and his only overdose experience was with 6g. he felt much like he does when he has waaaay too much to drink
     
  4. Amenselah

    Amenselah Titanium Member

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    been an addict for many years..,,have never seem that happen to anybody on G....u might be bipolar??
     
  5. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Gold Member

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    Amenselah, seriously??

    being bipolar could cause me to be unconscious and slam my head over and over again into a hard wooden desk???

    how so?

    Amenselah, you say you've been an addict many years--I assume on G. Have you ever taken a week or 2 off, and had your tolerance go WAYYY down???

    I was thinking (hoping) that this was just a regular-old GHB over-doing it type reaction. Like the times when people wake up in the ER.
     
  6. Pinkavvy

    Pinkavvy Platinum Member & Advisor

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    common G overdose is consists of the oppposite of movement... it consists of you laying on the ground drooling and barely breathing if at all. perhaps your G was contiminated with something else? pcp? lol
     
  7. blackwolf

    blackwolf Newbie

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    No...I belive you. Its a combination of ghb overdose and sodium overdose. THe sweats and the pissing is part of the sodium overdose, compounded by the anestesia brought on by the Ghb. The only thing is the dose is way to low..... You must have miss calculated your dose somehow. If the dose was say 5-8g of GHB, then that would all make since. I have seen similar things happen. On multiple occasions. You might have been going thru small seizures/spasms also, which would explain the bangging your head over and over again...Ill tell a great G story when I get a little time to type it out.
     
  8. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Gold Member

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    Wow blackwolf, that sounds entirely possible. I need to retrace all SWIM's steps and try to re-measure. Your explanation seems HIGHLY logical. Never even thought about the sodium. I assumed that the head-banging was a seizure--she said it was like SWIM's abdominals were writhing back and forth, and thus--banging his head. Yeah, I'm going with this explanation for now. Thanks for all of your help. Seriously!
     
  9. unico_walker

    unico_walker Newbie

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    This is actually very common on high doses, as is waking up naked pissing/masturbating/eating/having sex/screaming/laying in a field.
    This happens more with GBL then GHB and on high doses, but I have seen it.

    This is from the GHB newsgroup, consider the source though.
    "" Tremors and convulsions are a common side-effect reported in the two
    major collections of anti-GHB case studies, Chin&Kreutzer (Western Journal
    of Medicine, 1992 156: 380-384) and Galloway, et al. (Addiction, 1997
    92(1): 89-96), but they seem absent from the popular folklore. Of course,
    this may be a selection bias: Those who get tremors don't tend to remain
    in the GHB "loop" long enough to share their stories. If they are a
    reliable effect, they're probably confined to high doses.

    O. Snead Carter has done extensive research into the ability of GHB to
    induce seizures in monkeys (Neurology, 1978 28:640). The threshold dose
    he reports is 100-200mg/kg I.V., which (when accounting for the heightened
    potency of GHB when administered this way) would be ~10-12g P.O. (orally)
    in a human. Since the cases in the foregoing articles usually dealt with
    regular users who on one occassion took a drastically increased dose, it
    isn't incomprehensible that this could be the same mechanism, but in most
    I doubt it. One of the higher doses was 150mg/kg orally, which would
    probably not equal either the intensity or the speed of 100mg/kg I.V.

    In any case, the twitches and tremors in question are minor and
    passing. I wouldn't worry about it. Chin and Kreutzer report one case of a
    woman whom "a witness stated was. . . banging her head on a wall before
    becoming unconscious" as well as suffering seizure and "uncontrollable
    shaking," but (even if we are to take their report completely at its word)
    she had also been drinking. As is typical with these cases, no one was
    able to reliably report how much GHB she had taken or how many drinks
    she'd had. As is NOT typical, though, she was given leukocyte, hemoglobin,
    hematocrit, thrombocyte, sodium, potassium, bicarbonate, chloride,
    creatinine, nitrogen, arterial blood gas decontamination, and blood
    pressure counts, and radiographic electroencephalographic, computed
    tomographic, and magnetic resonance imaging scans. Somewhere in there they
    did manage to get a BAC, which came to 80mg/dl, which is hardly abusive
    but indicates several drinks. If you're mixing GHB and alcohol, I say
    you're lucky if you get nothing worse than seizures. . .""

    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.drugs.chemistry/msg/e49e451b38e32bc7?hl=en&
     
  10. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    absolutely possible, have seen this happen, forced pass out, loss of body control and wild spasticity. hmmm.
     
  11. godismdma

    godismdma Newbie

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    SWIM can relate....had the exact events happen! Excepts I was tryin to find the ratio of liquid to gms for GHB after 3+ hours ingesting small amounts the event happened after a larger dose due to frustration,wonder if it was because doses were taken through out a period of time then perhaps final dosin was large enough to go into REM? Especially since GHB will inhibit dopamine then flood release.what if when the final dose was taken to go into REM, the previous was floodin with dopamine cause one to move around but not be aware? That's SWIM's theory?
     
  12. psyki

    psyki Gold Member

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    I have had/observed similar experiences, as if the person were simultaneously experiencing a very strong dopamine rebound WHILE being knocked out cold on a high dose of GHB. The dopamine rebound seems to cause lots of muscle activity while the strong dose of GHB causes your mind to "fall asleep". It's called not knowing your dosage, AKA irresponsibility.

    Listen up, people. The most important thing to know about GHB is YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIMITS. People can react VERY differently to G, so while what your buddy says may be true for 95% of people, the only way to know how YOU will react is to start small, and work from there. There is no quick path to the mystical "perfect" dose of G, you must start small and work your way up by trial and error over weeks of experimentation, not hours.
     
  13. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    How would these experiences relate to the epilepsy seizure treshold which everyone has?
    Epilepsy & drugs
     
  14. respect

    respect Newbie

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    i have epilepsy and it is clear he had a seizure, often times when you have a seizure you pee and the seizure does not mean it was an overdose it was probably a combination of the drug fatigue the computer screen and jerking off alll very stimulating things and it clearly overloaded your system you might want to see a neurologist and maybe get an eeg you could have mild epilepsy i dont know much about ghb but you dont need to have epilepsy to have a seizure and you dont need to have seizures to have epilepsy ive only had 4 seizures havent had one since i started smoking weed i believe its medical and aparently it is used medically for epilepsy
     
  15. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Not exactly sure on this but I would assume GHB to be very similar to Benzo's, (closest to Clonazepam/Klonopin I think) so while on GHB one would have a higher epilepsy seizure threshold, but when withdrawing from regular use one would have a lower epilepsy seizure threshold.

    From what I has seen, experienced and researched she is of the opinion that the seizures experienced through GHB use are not at all related to epilepsy and that they are not actually seizures but “seizure like activity” also referred to as “Clonus” or “Clonic Movement” – a series of rapid, repetitive contractions and relaxations in a muscles movement. This seizure like activity has never been noted to cause epileptiform EEGs in humans, though a few studies have shown this in rats.

    Although I do not know why this seizure like activity occurs sometimes after GHB intake, there are many things that could contribute. I have seen this seizure like activity many times and on a regular basis and to many different people, none of which have epilepsy. I have noticed it usually occurs after repeat dosing, when the person is experiencing sleep deprivation, and most commonly when the person is also using methamphetamine.

    AS GHB has a different effect on dopamine depending on whether it is a low or high dose, the theory noted earlier on this thread about both of these effects happening at the same time is very plausible as this seizure like activity occurs when user is very intoxicated and either precedes coma-like state or replaces it.

    I have also noted that this activity seems to occur when a person is fighting against the sleep inducing effects of GHB ie; they have taken a dose which should have knocked them out but instead of submitting, they fight it.

    One peculiar characteristic of GHB toxicity is that a person will often demonstrate extreme combativeness and agitation despite profound CNS and respiratory depression.

    In answer to the urination question above, usually only a dose past that necessary to knock you out will cause urination, but I has seen this many times so it is not unusual.

    Benzos are commonly used to treat GHB induced seizure like activity.

    I have a question:
    GHB lowers blood sugar levels causing hypoglycemia. What I am curious to know is how GHB would affect someone who already has low blood sugar and could this cause or worsen any of the adverse reactions experienced?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  16. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    No, 2g of GHB, while a fairly heavy recreational dose, is half that of the starting dose range for Xyrem (at least 4g) and nowhere near the LD50 for GHB.

    Ask any young man who has got wankered on booze if he has ever "pissed in the wardrobe", chances are most people who have grown up in a heavy drinking society will have ended up at some point so wasted on alcohol that they, without realising what they were doing, have wound up peeing in the wrong place. At the wrong time. That's exactly what happened to You but with GHB instead.

    All that happened in you's case was that his large recreational dose of GHB knocked him semi-unconscious - he was neither dosed heavy enough to knock him out completely nor was he conscious enough to be aware of his actions yet still had motor function.

    The aches and pains were simply as a result of his little ambulatory adventures whilst sparko. As a sleepwalker may act out his dreams, so did you, unfortunately resulting in him knocking himself about a bit.

    To avoid situations like this in future You should look to utilise a proper recreational dosing pattern (a few doses spread out, certainly no bigger than 1.5g in any single dose).
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  17. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Does anyone know if it is actually safe to treat GHB induced "seizure" or "seizure like activity" with a benzo like Midazolam? It seems to me that this would cause further respiratory decrease and also lower blood pressure and heart rate.
     
  18. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I'm interested in the answer to that as well. I have a couple ideas but nothing very informed.
     
  19. Pino

    Pino Gold Member

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    I don't know for sure, but he found this on wikipedia a while ago:

    There wasn't any source, which backboned this statement.
     
    1. 5/5,
      Thanks for your response here
      Jul 14, 2008
  20. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    The reason I ask is that AFOAF had been drinking a moderate amount of alcohol, then took a little too much GBL and had what the medics called a seizure outside a night club. The ambulance came and he was taken to hospital and given 5mils I think of Midazolam. When my friend arrived at the hospital to see AFOAF he had low heart rate and blood pressure and was snoring. The Dr said that snoring was a sign that he wasn't breathing properly and she wanted to put a tube down his throat to help him breathe. My friend persuaded the Dr not to do this and AFOAF woke up about an hour later absolutely fine. The Dr had no knowledge on GBL or GHB, and the Midazolam was given before they even knew what he had taken as that is what is given to people having a seizure.