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Drug info - 4-FMA (4-fluoromethamphetamine) Drug Info

Discussion in 'Phenethylamines' started by dr ACE, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. dr ACE

    dr ACE Titanium Member

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    N-methyl-4flouro-alphamethyl-phenethylamine

    Does any swim have any info on this chemical looked it up on google and various other sites came up with nothing? obviously some kind of anlagoue of 4-FMP

    Please post info about 4FMP-M / 4FMA (4-fluoro-methamphetamine) here.

    Can anyone add information about:
    • names / synonyms
    • molecule
    • dose
    • duration
    • side effects
    • legal status
    • have there been any reported incidents with this compound?
    • since when has this research chemical been available?
    • stability of the molecule / compound

    Names:
    IUPAC:


    Experiences with 4FMP-M should be discussed here:
    4FMP-M Experience Reports

    Research Chemicals Index - Phenethylamines
    Research Chemicals Index - Tryptamines
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2010
  2. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    According to the structure, it is N-methylated 4-FMP, or 4-fluoro-methamphetamine.
     
  3. dr ACE

    dr ACE Titanium Member

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    scanned this off the web from another forum;

    "4-fluoro methamphetamine is also illegal in some countries due to catch all clauses, the UK being one of them where it is a class A bad boy.

    not worth it at all IMHO, it requires large doses and there are issues with thermoregulation at higher doses along with some other nasty effects"

    sounds like the 4-FMP is producing more favourable effects with smaller doses, and less unwanted side-effects
     
  4. QGdoxl

    QGdoxl Gold Member

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    I am a little confused how is 4-fmp different from 4-fmp-m I have seen both offered from.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2008
  5. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    From all reports I've seen this compound is a waste of time and carbon.
     
  6. Panthers007

    Panthers007

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    While substituting a methyl(CH3) group on the amine produces stronger and more dramatic effects with amphetamine(meth) and MDA(MDMA), this is the exception rather than the rules. Usually substituting a methyl on the amine results in a dramatic loss of potency. And can cause serious and toxic side-effects if one were to push the envelope up high enough to register anything resembling the desired effects.

    Caveat Emptor.
     
  7. dr ACE

    dr ACE Titanium Member

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    Would that same chemistry logic apply to?; 4-METHYL-methcathinone -
    aka- Mephedrone

    panthers?, sorry that question was a bit off topic

    It would seems to be mixed reviews appearing for '4-FMP-M', mostly leaning towards negative?. The jury is still out on this analouge. Not much if any info to be found when surfing the net about 4-FMP-M
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  8. stoneinfocus

    stoneinfocus

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    It´s the same.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2008
  9. dr ACE

    dr ACE Titanium Member

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    No Swim would have to disagree from the little chemistry knowledge he has(correct him if he is wrong,Please):-

    4-FlouroAmphetamine = 4-FMP

    4-Flouro-Methamphetamine = 4-FMP-M

    These are two different analogues of the same core chemical structure - Amphetamine
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  10. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    The confusion is due to that horrible nomenclature.

    Enough already with "4-FMP," it's a stupid name which refuses to go away. 4-FPM-M is even worse.

    These compounds should be referred to as 4-FA and 4-FMA respectively.
     
  11. stoneinfocus

    stoneinfocus

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    Exactly! If one is using IUPAC the amine being the suffix, so it´s called alpha-methyl, beta-(4-fluorophenyl)ethylamine (4-FA) or N-,alpha-dimethyl(4-fluorophenyl)ethylamine, a bit outdated, I think, because why should the phenethyl-backbone be kept by all means in nomeclature?

    N-methyl(4-fluorophenyl)2-aminopropane?

    Also, one could call it 4-fluorophenylisopropylamine, or N-methyl-(4-fluorophenyl)2-aminopropane.

    Or [methanamine-2-yl-(4-fluorophen-1-yl)]propane, or N-methyl-[1-(para-fluorophenyl)]2-aminopropane.

    :laugh: (just kiddin´, prob. not even correct, but just to demonstrate, there´re 3 different nomenclatures and different ways in those for naming a substance, isn´t there a fckn software for it for free?)

    someone told me it was quite well suited for sexual activity with some entactogenic properties, working synergistically in this subject. A combination with the stronger dopamine-relasing, non-fluorinated analogue seems to enhance this effect, no trials with the meth-analogue so far, but about to follow.

    stoneinfocus added 1319 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

    Ahh, how joyful this is, after being sabotated, raped and sued by my family, and after they´ve stolen my chemistry-books, it´s even no fun anymore deriving info from the internet or it´s hard to remember, forgotten and confused...talking about PTSD.

    So I had an individual tested for alternatives, to alleviate it with said compund.
    Smoker, athletic but rather slim, very fast metabolism and extrwemily sensirive to stimulants, doses of 1/5 produce in this subject effects seen with reports on 30-100mg.

    So this subject demonstrated to me, how he ingested about 15mg of this compound (=30-75mg in normal).

    t+4min: Onset, burning in nose, freed sinuses very well, easy breathing, better than with other compounds

    +7min.: slight panic attack, but could be controlled by learning stereochemistry and actually being able to derive the important info and remembering it.

    +11-25min: he smoked a spliff grass and an easy/light euphoria, very coke-like, but not that much like `down to the bone´ as natural as coke, set in (observated with this combo frequently), very clear headed and clear vision, good pain-management.

    +35min: Clear headed, took some time, very slightly blurred vision now-and-then with a shift to magnifying blue colours(tired?)

    t.+40min.:time flies and is easy.Not troublesome at all, no deep emotions, more on the fearless side and probably very entactogenic and fun-stuff when thinking of his partner.

    duration: prob. 3-5 hours, easy sleeping and quite refreshed and still relaxed. clear-headed awakening, the horror of the past doesn´t seems to catch him that early after waking-up and reaching his conciousness and doesn´t seem to hunt him that hard.

    He realized, that there´re important things to do, which were lying around for nearly a week, did it.

    Some notes: he seems like loosing his cravings for cigarettes big-time during just one week of the use and last night he told me, he remembered some of the major things of earlier LSD settings and how they were so right and taught him so much, like the media really is fucked-up and and on the trip he went nearly crazy for getting no information from it or it was seeming totally absurd and not linked to reality.He said, the more he was thinking about it the more logic and reflection was behind this LSD experience, lying years beyond and the clearer his thoughts are, the less doubt there was and was really explaining logically, why things went these ways and the causes.

    He reported again and it was very clear headed, fearless and working things out intellectually was now possible, in ways, which he thought were lost forever for him, even never existing.

    Concentration on subjects for longer than 12-14 hours are possible, with a broader connection to himself and others and the roots of these information ( hope you understand what he means), concentration is not swapped by an intellctual break-down and subsequent total confusion of the stuff he had learned, but simply tiredness is getting him and everything learned is preserved.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  12. chrisjames13

    chrisjames13

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    How to dose 4FMA or 4FMP-M?

    SWIM read someone taking between 25mg and 40mg and that they would not recommend going higher; However, on another forum in another language, members are talking about taking 150mg and 200mg bombs of 4-FMA.

    Is it possible to dose this so high? Anyone have any info on what the safest dosages for SWIM to take 4-FMA?

    SWIM found this on that same foreign forum regarding dosages:
    It is the same dosing at 4-FMA
    as in 4-FMP/4-FA i.e.
    DOSAGE Low: 50-80 mg
    Normal dose is: 100-150 mg
    Strong: 150-300 mg

    Can anyone confirm this for SWIM?

    Another person on some online forum states this...
    SWIM feels like 4-FMA has higher potency than 4-FA.
    On Swims side, typical dosage for amph is 30 mg, 4-FA 80 mg ,
    and for 4-FMA 40 mg is enough.

    SWIM tried it 2 or three times (not higher than 130mg)
    and its about the same potency as 4-FA. It felt very good
    but SWIM heard people say if you go only a bit higher it gets toxic.

    Then SWIM goes on to state that 4-FMA has not been
    widely researched. However, the parent compound 4-fluoroamphetamine
    has been evaluated and compared to other halo amphetamines. While
    the 4-bromo and 4-chloro amphetamines significantly affect serotonin
    levels, 4-fluoramphetamine has been found to have minimal effect on
    5HT, and contrary to the other halogens, levels are restored within
    days of use.

    Some concern has been raised regarding potential pulmonary toxicity
    of the N-methyl analogue, if this compound is a 5HT2b agonist.

    N-methyl-4-fluoroamphetamine may also have a significantly different
    neurotoxicity profile than the parent compound (as per methamphetamine
    when compared to amphetamine) and if meth is anything to go by, will
    possibly also have increased actions on the 5HT system.

    N-methyl-4-fluoroamphetamine has been noted in Forensic literature.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    So, can anyone out there give more info on the safest dosages for SWIM to take 4-FMA at or any valid info regarding dosing 4-FMA period?

    chrisjames13 added 1092 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

    There is not much on 4-FMA and the metabolites are unknown so SWIM began looking elsewhere...

    Fenfluramine is an amphetamine analog that was once widely prescribed as an appetite suppressant.

    Norfenfluramine, the major metabolite of fenfluramine, causes vasoconstriction dependence on the 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HI)2A receptor in rat.

    4-TFMA, 4-trifluoromethylamphetamine

    4-trifluoromethylamphetamine has certainly been made though
    and SWIM doesn't believe there is any evidence that it is
    neurotoxic, although SWIM is pretty sure it causes damage to
    your heart valves (although not as badly as
    3-trifluoromethylamphetamine) -from some forum online.

    'Since fenfluramine and its active metabolite norfenfluramine
    stimulate serotonin receptors 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) this
    may have led to the valvular abnormalities found in patients
    using fenfluramine. In particular norfenfluramine is a potent
    agonist of 5-HT2B receptors, which are plentiful in human
    cardiac valves. The suggested mechanism by which fenfluramine
    causes damage is through over or inappropriate stimulation of
    these receptors leading to inappropriate valve cell division.
    Supporting this idea, is the fact that this valve abnormality
    has also occurred in patients using other drugs that act on
    5-HT2B receptors.' -from wikipedia
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    From a study that SWIM found online....

    'The major finding of the present study is that MDMA and
    MDA, in a manner identical to drugs demonstrated to induce
    VHD and PPH in humans, bind to and activate human re-
    combinant 5-HT2B receptors and induce mitogenesis in hu-
    man heart valve interstitial cells in vitro.
    Importantly,
    MDMA and MDA activate h5-HT2B receptors within the
    same concentration ranges at which they 1) occur in plasma
    after a single recreational dose and 2) release biogenic
    amines, an activity widely accepted to be a major pharmaco-
    logical effect of these agents. We also report that two com-
    monly prescribed medications reported to induce VHD in
    humans, pergolide and dihydroergotamine (Creutzig, 1992;
    Pritchett et al., 2002), also activate h5-HT2B receptors in
    vitro.
    Previous studies suggested that VHD-associated drugs
    cause heart valve dysfunction via activation of heart valve
    interstitial cell 5-HT2B receptors.' -from a 2003 study on mdma

    'Our finding that amphetamine derivatives (e.g., fenflura-
    mine, MDMA, MDA, and norfenfluramine) also activate h5-
    HT2B receptors demonstrates that drugs of other classes also
    need to be screened for potential valvulopathogenic actions.'

    -from a 2003 study on mdma

    'The data presented herein are thus of major
    public health importance because they suggest that MDMA
    abuse, which is at an all-time high, puts an expanding pop-
    ulation at increased risk for developing VHD and primary
    pulmonary hypertension
    .' -from a 2003 study on mdma

    After reading all of this...4-FMA doesn't sound much more dangerous than other options out there except 4-FA or methylone perhaps, which both sound a little on the safer side to SWIM but this is all based on opinion and studies on substances other than 4-FMA of course.

    If anyone out there has anything to contribute on the safety or dosages of 4-FMA, please do so for SWIMs sake.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  13. NeuroChi

    NeuroChi is not his mind Staff Member

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    Re: 4-FMA , 4fmp-m Drug Info

    Pictures of: compound sold as '4-FMA'

    [​IMG]
    (see close up of image in thumbnail below)

    From biological assays it is clear either this product is remarkably impure or not what it was sold as. After suggested doses (1mg, 10mg) were assayed with no noticeable effects, slightly larger doses were tested.

    Insufflation of 50-100mg on three separate accounts brought to light that this is a very uninteresting and impotent compound. Within 20 minutes the maximal effect had been reached which was only slightly stimulatory - more central then peripheral. A feeling of wakefulness was observed. No clear dopaminergic or serotonergic quality. Might be analogous to MDPV but with much less brevity, and no uncomfortable increase in heart rate. The only interesting characteristic would be the sensation it evokes upon insufflation which is reminiscent to that of cocaine, slight smell and slight numbing sensations. If however it were to be compared side by side, it would be about half of the potency of street cocaine.

    An oral dose of ~200mg produced little noticeable effects.

    These tests were done under varying levels of tolerance to monoamine releasing and reuptake inhibiting agents. With lower tolerance it evoked slight euphoria, with higher tolerance it was only stimulating.
    The compound was tested via Marquis, Mandelin, and Mecke reagents.

    Reagent test:

    Marquis: color change to yellow, some dark yellow, spot of pink
    Mandelin: slight color change to darker yellow/green
    Mecke: color change brown / rust color (first) in high concentrations, more green-grey if diluted with reagent
    Simons: change to green, then blue
    Robadope: no reaction

    [​IMG]

    Attached is also a close view of the final reactions.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. pikhal

    pikhal

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    Re: PFA / 4FA / 4FMP (4-fluoro-amphetamine) experiences

    A little new here, so please bear with. SWIM has no experience with 4-FA, but rather the newer 4-FMA. The updates on insufflation seem to be across the board: just damn painful for a few seconds or so. Injection proves a longer (smoother, even) duration, SWIM notices, but still is not very amphetamine-ish, not like same with Dexedrine or Desoxyn. Have been looking at other popular "party powders" such as 5-IAI, 3,4-DMMC and so on. Will let you know
     
  15. Freedom of Mind

    Freedom of Mind Silver Member

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    Re: 4-FMA , 4fmp-m Drug Info

    When SWIM went to the hospital he tested positive for methamphetamine, even though 4-FMA was the closest thing to methamphetamine he had taken. SWIM finds doses closer to 500mg to be closer to the dose required to get really noticeable effects from 4-FMA, anyone know how toxic this stuff might be for your kidneys? SWIM had taken naphyrone, 4-FA, 5-IAI, 4-FMA, MDAI, AM2201, JWH-250 and experimented with several RC chemicals before he ended going to the ER after someone called the paramedics on him when he was disoriented after trying AM2201 for the 1st time so he was a bit out of it. SWIM had brain scans, xrays, neurological tests, cat scans, and everything was healthy on SWIM except his kidneys weren't in good shape (his creatine levels were off). So no neurotoxic effects were found in SWIM despite mixing all these chemicals, although SWIM suspects the naphyrone for tests showing his kidneys were in bad shape. Although it could be a combination of these chemicals which caused poor kidney function.

    The main point of this post though is that SWIM showed up positive for methamphetamine when drug tested, although 4-FMA is the only thing SWIM can think of that would of caused that which he had taken recently.

    Or at least that's what SWIM tells me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  16. NeuroChi

    NeuroChi is not his mind Staff Member

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    Re: 4-FMA , 4fmp-m Drug Info

    The only difference between 4-FMA and Meth is 1 Fluorine atom. So maybe whoever synthesized it only Fluorinated 99% of the Meth, leaving 1% methamphetamine? I'm not sure how 4-FMA is commonly synthesized, but I imagine it being so close to meth that there could likely be some present in it.

    Could you put in a report for 4-FMA here, if you've tried it? http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=740728#post740728

    Would be greatly appreciated to understand how effects are, how they differ from 4-FA.
     
  17. Freedom of Mind

    Freedom of Mind Silver Member

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    Re: 4-FMA , 4fmp-m Drug Info

    SWIM plans to hold off on any more experiments until he has a follow up appointment to make sure his kidneys are fine before trying any new experiments with RC chemicals. From SWIM's usage though he has found it to be less potent than dextroamphetamine or d/l amphetamine dosage wise. SWIM also thinks it might be a little less potent than 4-FA for the dose needed to get an effects, although more euphoric than 4-FA, with 4-FA being more of a straight up study/work stimulant.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  18. durrrral

    durrrral Newbie

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    Re: 4-FMA , 4fmp-m Drug Info

    swim smoked around 100mgs 4fma throughout last night and he said it tasted exactly like the pure form of its cousin but with minimal effects tapering of within 20 mins or he noted being able to go asleep fairly easy but woke up within a few hours grinding teeth and could not fall asleep. he said he doesn't feel like as he does on amphetamines, but unfortunately does have the same kind of side effects. swim said he doesn't feel like trying this method again anytime soon and says he doesn't recommend any on ever try doing this themselves as it could be very dangerous
     
  19. stryke

    stryke

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    Re: 4fmp-m

    This is not the same logic! Cathinone is less potent then methcathinone. This is substitution on amino group (-NH-). But substitution of benzene ring is different story: seems to me, that adding methyl group to aromatic ring rapidly decrease potency. Because 4-methylmethcathinone (mephedrone) is much much stronger then 3,4-dimethylmethcathinone. And methcathinone is reported to be much stronger then 4-methylmethcathinone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  20. permameth

    permameth Newbie

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    Re: How to dose 4FMA or 4FMP-M?

    A guy I met would agree with the 100-150mg for 4-FMA. No bad side effects noted at 300mg though...the stimulation lasted longer he said that was it. 5-6 hours of intense euphoria( a lovely rushing feeling) Then your up for a day with clear concentration and thoughts; much better then any adderall I'm told.