5-meo and MAOIs

Discussion in 'DMT and Ayahuasca' started by HippieD9, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. HippieD9

    HippieD9 Gold Member

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    Some stuff I found while looking around other sites..





    but I was theorizing this a few days ago, on the seemingly dangerous interactions between MAOI's and 5-MeO-DMT.

    5-MeO-AMT is also known as a,O-DMS, or alpha,O-dimethylserotonin. a Serotonin molecule with two methyl groups at the 5 position (oxygen molecule) and the Alpha carbon, I believe. anyway, I thought, would this mean 5-MeO-DMT is also a XmethylSerotonin?

    and it is.

    So, I'm thinking the reason 5-MeO has been known to cause things like serotonin syndrome and hypertensive crisis with MAOIs is because, in the brain, it's likely close enough to Serotonin that the brain mistakes it for such. and this is why 5Meo has this problem but N,N-DMT doesn't... nothing on the 5 position!

    thus it's probably as potentially hazardous as eating MAOIs and a bunch of 5HTP, maybe?

    any thoughts?

    and nonetheless I think it's important to spread the word of the possibility of danger with this combination. there have been too many negative reports.... regardless of whether it's a part of some Ayahuasca brews, smoked 5Meo is a lot different, and not necessarily nontoxic, in my opinion.









    The acute effects of monoamine reuptake inhibitors
    on the stimulus effects of hallucinogens
    by
    Winter JC, Helsley S, Fiorella D, Rabin RA
    Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology,
    School of Medicine and Biomedical Sciences,
    State University of New York at Buffalo, 14214-3000, USA.
    Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1999 Jul; 63(3):507-13

    ABSTRACT
    In a previous study it was observed that fluoxetine potentiates the stimulus effects of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD). In the present investigation, stimulus control was established in groups of rats using as training drugs the hallucinogens lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD); 0.1 mg/kg), (-)-2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine [(-)-DOM; 0.56 mg/kg], ibogaine (10 mg/kg), and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT; 3 mg/kg). A two-lever, fixed-ratio 10, positively reinforced task with saline controls was employed. The hypotheses tested were that (a) monoamine uptake inhibitors other than fluoxetine potentiate the discriminative effects of LSD, and (b) hallucinogens other than LSD are potentiated by acute pretreatment with monoamine uptake inhibitors. The effects of a range of doses of each of the training drugs were determined both alone and following pretreatment with the monoamine reuptake inhibitors fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, and venlafaxine. In LSD-trained subjects, all three reuptake inhibitors caused a significant increase in LSD-appropriate responding. Similar results were observed in rats trained with (-)-DOM and with ibogaine. In 5-MeO-DMT-trained subjects, only fluoxetine resulted in an enhancement of drug-appropriate responding. The reuptake inhibitors given alone elicited varying degrees of responses appropriate for the respective training drugs. For fluoxetine in rats trained with LSD and ibogaine, for venlafaxine in LSD trained, and for fluvoxamine in (-)-DOM trained, the degree of responding met our criterion for intermediate responding, i.e., significantly different from both training conditions. Subsequent experiments in (-)-DOM-trained subjects examined a range of doses of each of the reuptake inhibitors in combination with a fixed dose of (-)-DOM (0.1 mg/kg), which alone yielded about 50% (-)-DOM-appropriate responding. With the exception of the point obtained with the highest dose of venlafaxine, all data were compatible with additivity of effects rather than true potentiation. In summary, the present data extend our previous observation of the augmentation of the stimulus effects of LSD by fluoxetine to include other hallucinogens. The mechanisms by which these interactions arise and possible differential effects of acute and chronic treatment remain to be established.
     
  2. aMorphius

    aMorphius Newbie

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    After that very technical discussion I give you my personal experience. My
    X was prescribed an MAOI, a tricyclic antidepressant and Ritalin by her
    shrink (very slow increases of the last two compounds up to the usual
    dose over time). Well, it didn kill her, but maybe that would have been
    best! Beware of full strength MAOI's and any psychotropic drug! It was
    hell on earth!

    Details: No sleep, psychosis, fainting, delusions, heart problems, etc. ...
     
  3. HippieD9

    HippieD9 Gold Member

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    I've never had any experiance with the pharm MAOIs, I'd think they act a bit differently than the natural ones (stronger, etc..) I'll post a trip report when SWIM tries 5-meo & Caapi.





    Peace,


    D.