Spiritual - A Different Way of Looking at Tripping (Collective Consciousness)

Discussion in 'Magic Mushrooms (Psilocybe & Amanita)' started by RJeez, Feb 4, 2007.

  1. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    I have noticed that a trip,or what is happening at the time of a trip,i.e.the hallucinations is symbolic of what is happening at that time.This is obvious,it is happening.But,it is also symbolic of how I am feeling at that given moment.

    But more than that,I am seeing what EVERYONE,straight or tripping,is,has,or is going to experience.Someone may have fears,heights for example-that would be personal.And to come to terms with that fear would be,for that person(personally),a heroic feat,and make them feel good about themselves.Everyone has fears,a universal,or collective fact.So,suppose I was see,hallucinate a dragon when tripping,and the hallucination was a good one(as opposed to bad,scary,freaky).This would for SWIM-personally be a heroic feat.But more than that,since I don't really have any PERSONAL experience of dragons(in reality,that is.SWIM may have knowledge of them from books,but this would not be "fully formed" like a real experience of something,because the full MEANING of something can't be appreciated until it is experienced for real.This is paramount.)So,the experience is a collective one,of overcoming fears.

    NO TIME TO FINISH POST!
     
    1. 5/5,
      interesting topic & posts
      Feb 18, 2007
  2. CRUNK

    CRUNK Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    That all sounds good and everything, but since when has Swim ever seen a 'Dragon' from tripping off of just shrooms?
     
  3. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    In that dragons are part of British mythology, it would be likely that such imagery would surface from deep levels of the racial consciousness in people from the UK. It's an interesting study, which was being touched on here and there before psychedelics were outlawed, to find out what common-threads of images people would "see" on these drugs.

    One of the more interesting findings, which has been refuted but not disproved, was a universal series of images being elicited from harmaline. Such as Inuit (Eskimo) people seeing giant cats - as did people from France and South America. This was viewed as possible proof of Jung's theory of a "collective unconscious."
     
    1. 3/5,
      interesting study
      Feb 6, 2007
  4. Flimmar

    Flimmar Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    Interesting reading :)

    I live 230 meters from a viking-grave - would be cool to trip his ass of with some dead viking :)
     
  5. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    I've seen no end of mythological creatures on mushrooms,lots of times-I don't even call a trip without mythological stuff a trip,just a mild buzz.A dragon was just one of the ones I could describe.
     
  6. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    Mythology has everything to do with magic mushroom tripping.When one sees dragons,you are having a personal experience of something that is universally experienced-albeit,in their own personal way of experiencing it-by everyone,an archetype.

    For example,when seeing a dragon,and provide you are feeling good at the same time,you are like the mythological hero.It is thoug you haven't just overcome a personal hurdle but something bigger.Your own personal hurdle has taken on a bigger ,deeper,more univrsal meaning.This means that not only have you overcome a personal hurdle,but something in your personality has been changed,and the meaning of the personal hurdle can be used for a totally different situation but with the same meaning as the above mentioned hurdle.

    Of course,this can go the other way,too.If you were hallucinating a dragon and it freaked you out,that would mean that you have yet to overcome your own personal hurdle/problem before you can "take on" the wider,universal,archetypal meaning of the situation.Mushrooms throw you in at the deep end.They sort of accelerate you through the personal meaning of your problems straight to the universal/archetypal meaning of a situation(like being on a really steep learning curve,)and you first have to know the meaning of your personal stuff-in order to understand them-before you can understand it in a wider/archetypal persective.

    (I did want to mention something about being too analytical about tripping-I seen a post on it.It seems,to me,that this seems to be the way to stop being tooo analytical,and just to see the meaning in stuff.For example,theories about stuff,complicated theories.THIS ISN'T A THEORY,BECAUSE THERE IS MEANING INHERENT IN EVERYTHING.Okay,you can understand them,but how useful are they?That is the meaning,what really matters.And mushrooms can let you see the universal meaning of stuff,of yourself-what stuff means to you.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2007
    1. 5/5,
      Insightful post. Be careful with self-incrim though, do some editting asap (not this but other posts)
      Feb 10, 2007
  7. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    It is the meaning of stuff that is projected,as hallucinations-first the personal meaning(associated to stuff in the memory)and then the universal meaning of stuff-motifs that can be found in mythology.The wider,or less prejudiced your personal meaning or view is,the closer you will be to the collective view,and the more you will understand stuff,the universe,and [/i]yourself[/i],the source of it all......and the hallucinations.Remember,the hallucinations are projected from you,a piece of you-or centre that you are not normally aware of,which is why the hallucinations have a life of their own,because you are "absent from the steering wheel-of your centre."

    Here's something by Joseph Campbell to explain the difference between peronal,collective,and to explain meaning."Will I pass this exam?"or"Should I marry this girl?"-that is purely personal.But on another level,the problem of passing the exam is not simply a personal problem.Everyone has to pass a threshold of some kind.That is an archetypal thing.So there is a basic mythological theme even though it is a personal dream.These two levels-the personal aspect and the big general aspect-of which the person's problem is a local example,are found in all cultures.For example,everyone has the problem of facing death.This is a standard mystery."

    Ever had it when you feel at one with your surroundings,or you are at the centre of everything when tripping?That's cause you are,and you have just become aware of it.When tripping you become aware of a more deep-collective/universal meaning of stuff,like I said above,"you are thrown in at the deep end,and if you miss the personal "initial" meaning then the projected(as hallucinations)meaning is lost on you and will freak you out."At first you have a sort of personal,microcosmic understanding and meaning of stuff.Then the deeper meaning of the personal(seen,projected as hallucinations)widens into a universal meaning,and then it iis macrocosmic.When tripping this is experienced as clearer thoughts(cause your understanding is deepened)and clearer perceptions(cause your understanding-which is projected,is deepened).Well,you can go an extra step,back to yourself,full circle.This is always happening,you just become aware of it,by having a deeper understanding and meaning of yourself,and the world that is projected from you.You could call this "cosmic understanding" if you like.(By the way,ever noticed the patterns and geometric shapes when tripping?Look at a tibetan buddhist mandala-a symbol of the Self,or centre,and see how similar they are.I do not think that that is a coincidence,because the patterns are(probably)a projection of the symbol of the Self/centre.)

    I read somewhere something by James Hillman about soul and psyche.Well,this centre I am talking about is what he meant by soul.But we experience it normally as a relection,reflected in our meanings(projected,and experienced as the Ego.Actually,we can find ourselves reflected in the hallucinations,in the meaning-of what they mean to ourselves and us)but this "cosmic understanding" lets us experience it first hand.Here we experience not only things personally,and collectively,but experience the meaning of the collective/universal on a personal level,i.e.everyone has the problem of facing death,but how does that universal problem affect me personally?If I can answer that,then maybe it is possible to see beyond death,and into the cosmos.Bloody hell!!All from taking a few mushrooms!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2007
  8. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    Just thinking,read a few times that "trips aren't as fun after the mystical 50 trips",and maybe it's because as you age,the meaning of things change cause you change.Maybe you could somehow rediscover the meaning of tripping,and so change yourself.I can't see why not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2007
  9. D.U.M.B

    D.U.M.B Gold Member

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    I have seen a dragon while tripping along with many other strange things.

    Interesting topic
     
  10. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    SWIM see's You is in Ireland.Was it liberty caps that You took?

    Just as a suggestion,why don't people send in what hallucinations they have had,and what state of mind(good,bad)they were in at the time,particularly stuff which seems mythyical.This way everyone could make associations with mythological material(using books),and we can document them and find out first,their personal meaning,and then look at them in a broader context(using mythology),and see if they have a collective meaning by comparing them with each other.That would be cool.It would be sort of like mapping "The Tripping Dimension."Fuck me!That would be ace!Terence Mckenna said "The territory makes the map,the map doesn't make the territory,"meaning that this would be an ongoing,neverending process of constant discovery,discovery of meanings to us all,collectively.

    I forgot to mention,YOU CAN DO THIS WITH DREAMS TOO!!Try it!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2007
  11. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    Anything alien to you while tripping-an hallucination,a colour,an insight of something that you had prior knowledge of(eg.the theory of relativity or stuff about the universe)something you haven't experienced before,where does it come from?Maybe by sharing and comparing we could find out.It would be like finding the "DNA of The Mind."By sharing,it would be like the worldwide genome project,and by finding what is inside us personally,we could find out what is inside us all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2007
  12. Flimmar

    Flimmar Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    I find what you're saying very interesting. I saw a program about kids having memories about previous life - though I'm not a big believe of afterlife or a existence prior to the current one - and I found it very interesting. This kid had a memorie about an isolated island Borra or something, and he could locate several buildings etc., explain stuff a kid simply wouldn't be able to.

    Now I know there's a big chance of a big scam (the parents telling them the facts about the place etc.), but the idea of an incoded memorie - stuff you've never seen, never heard of. How can You suddenly hallucinate about those things? It's all very interesting :)
     
  13. RJeez

    RJeez Newbie

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    Re: A Different way of looking at Tripping

    If we can see a theme or common thread thru these experiences it would be like the psychological or spiritual equivalent of the physical "template" we all share.We may all look different,but we all have two arms legs,eyes,one nose.We could even go further and say that all mammals have hair,or even,we all breath air.By doing this,we even hazard a guess as to what happened before recorded history,the history of prehistory,by knowing what the "parameters" are of our behaviour...the archetypes.And what we see when tripping is these parameters in a. . .visual form.
     
  14. ZeroCult

    ZeroCult Silver Member

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    Here is part of a pretty archetypal (i would call it archetype possesion actually) experiance i had involving the ''devouring father'' and ''horned one'' archetypes.

    Their was a fold in the curtains with the streetlight behind them. Because of this fold i kept seeing two faces in the curtain, constantly seeming to flow towards me while remaining in the curtain. One expressed anger, one insanity. At first i didnt pay mutch attention, i dont care mutch about visuals even then. But because of the streatlight behind the curtain my attention kept getting drawn there and when it persisted several minuetes it started getting on my nerves (the insane face mostly). So i stood up and took one step to be at the curtain and straightened it out.

    When i moved the curtain, for just a fraction of a second, i saw a face in its chaotic print moving with the streetlight behind it. It was like the bottom 2/3 of the right side of this face (left side from my point of fiew). It was a black and white template. I recognised this as the face of lucifer (im not religious). A name that fits it better is ''devouring father''. It was a fully grown male face and its charactaristics implied superiority. Both physical and mental but most of all in terms of willpower. Not so mutch free power of will, but a verry set power of will, a verry clear intention (of being superioir) and all its actions and actual self being in 100% in support of this intention. It was verry alpha male like, from the time before humans started to use language, when alpha males didnt have to give conscessions. (scientists believe language devoloped for a good part because of sutch alpha males and people joining forces against them aswell as every alpha male having to sleep and not liking a big rock being trown on their face then by some younger male they had just ran off that day, a verry patriarchal fiew of pre linguistic human society but plenty of evidence to support sutch theories)
    For a moment, this face hit me deep and hard, like the signal of fear and awe it gave out bypassed my rational mind and went straight into the deepest part of my unconscious, that responded with a ''bolt'' of panic (PANic).
    A second later my rational mind regained control, recognised i had just seen an archetype. My ego was probably somehwat shamed for my second of actual panic and i thought to myself: ''HA, so thats how the abrahamic religions did it, they incorporated archetypes existing in the uncouncious of every human into their lore, using this one in particular to scare people into submission''

    Some pagan source i found later actually puts emphasis on the exclamation of HA in relation to invoking ''pan'' there was no sexual side to my experiance but the HA did come as a release of fear.

    Probably somewhat triumphantly, i sat back down and thats when this current hit me. It was like i was somehow possesed, but not by something from outside and not agains my will. But this state of mind came over me, a way of looking at things and myself, a way of being quite foreign yet quite familiar. It wasnt the ''devouring father'' archetype possesing me. It had horns and hoofs i felt somehow without visualising this, it was natural, whilst the devouring father archetype was (considered itself) more like ''above'' nature. I felt ''intune'' with my self, freed from doubt and fear. My worldview was no longer up for internal discussion, it was like a given and so was my rebellious place in this worldview. The particular feeling i associate with a generally less selective agonist of serotine receptors was completly gone. Somehow i thought more in experiance then in words.

    Somehow it was like a shift took place on the most fundamental way of how my brain operated, like in the division between the different brains (instinctual emotional and rational) and the ''circle'' in witch they co-operated was changed. I tried to fully explain this in my earlier version of this post but im pretty sure i made an error somewhere and its to long ago to for me to decipher. So this is more like a direction i point at. Maybe its more like that normally its not a circle but a wave and now some direction for feedback was opened making it go full circle. Normally its like dthe different parts of the brain have a respective function, and now all parts can take all functions. Im not sure though Some memories have no doubt been replaced with interpretations and asumptions.

    My conspirital world fiew wasnt replaced it was enforced (no more room for doubt), but at the same time i felt it didnt matter so mutch anymore to my personal life. Even if i died trying to regain some control of the world at large (witch seemed the most likely outcome if i remained in this state) didnt matter mutch anymore. I was living in the moment and in the moment all was clear and therefor all was good. All was as it should be because i was as it should be, the outside world was just that, outside of me. A place for action but not something to ''worry'' about. I was a given, my intentions where a given, the world was a given. Only my actions and the worlds actions where what was to be decided upon.

    Full report here: https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1300666&posted=1#post1300666#ixzz2TGu8F72F