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Opinions - A legal high 5 times stronger and 2 times longer then meth? One time only?

Discussion in 'Various drugs not covered by other forums' started by tomotd11562, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. tomotd11562

    tomotd11562 Newbie

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    I have always wanted to share this


    I started using adderall (adhd) back in january and found it incredibly euphoric though it did seam to make me allot more shy. I occasionally abused the adderall at doses of 100+mg and found it euphoric but yet there is always one thing about that high that bothers me: its that you always end up getting sidetracked no matter what and realizing it only like after 10 hours , and never really have the fun you could have. I wondered if meth would be any better,but found it just felt like super adderall, allot more in the mind though and extremely addictive, I didn't find myself unable to sit back and relax that probably has do do with the dextrorotation and levorotation ratio differences.

    Fast forward a few months and I had a gym buddy of mine going crazy at the gym, I though he came in there on MDMA, he's usually an ass about some things but that day he was out of normal, he was very loving of everybody around him, I was unable to complete my workout because he kept wanting to talk about his life goals to me. I asked him if he was on drugs and he said no, Its just that he had gotten a new energy powder fda approved and all but people where saying it was tainted with some unknown amphetamine analogue.


    I did some research and found and quickly was surprised to find people comparing it to meth.I was convinced by some of the things people said and bought it.

    (keep in mind ive been off adderall for 2 weeks at this point feeling pretty shitty)I received it couple days later. Opened up and and mixed 4 scoops into 32oz of water.. Instruction warns do not exceed 2 scoops in 24 hours. I took 4 scoops because of my past stimulant use i though it would be ok. Little did I know that was going to be life changing. I was sitting at my computer, and then once it hit me it was incredible, I jumped up and starting crying from joy, Running around like a crazy from all the energy and pure happiness. With every breath I would get this incredible tingly feeling. I decided to take 3 more scoops and never really ended up going to the gym, instead I ended up doing like 20 things that I actually deep down enjoyed and not ocd cleaning my place. I was pure euphoric for 15 hours, and then incredibly happy for next 3 days YES 3 days of not a single depressing though just off those 6 scoops 4 days ago,. I didn't sleep first 2 nights, 2 hours next night at this point I was feeling dragged down yet still in a damn good mood. I't took me 8 days until my normal sleep patterns, normal hunger and depression to come back, This actually happened like in the begging of the year yet i remember the day so clearly. I remember allot of physical symptoms I experienced where meth but stronger. I could't make my mouth produce saliva at all on the 3 day when I finally got hungry, Had to eat pour water on food to moisten it. I was clenching my jaw for hours, pupils full dilated for 2 days and then semi dilated for week. cold blue feet and arms you get the story

    Here is the thing,This high was a one time thing, Next time i took it i was excepting something close, yet all I got was a headache and extreme paranoia/anxiety. I spent the next 2 months chasing this high with so much Adderrall and meth and never came even close, I still felt great from those amphetamines but nothing on that level. It felt 5 times stronger then meth yet without any of that anxiety,paranoia, ocd, constant worrying, shaking. Yet It only worked just once. This drink sent my adderall tolerance off the roof, I was unable to treat my adhd anymore. I ended up needing like 100mg to feel what 40mg would do before.


    Can anybody here with a deep chemistry background explain any of this from this ingredients list.
    I myself have been researching the list and found some connection, the compounds seem to work together but I am no chemist. Any insight would be appreciated.


    Creatine Monohydrate, Trimethylglycine , L-Citrulline, Dendrobex™ (Dendrobium Extract) (Stem) (Concentrated For Alkaloid Content Including Dendrobine, Dendroxine, Dendramine, B-Phenylethylamine, N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamine, And N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine), B-Phenylethylamine HCl, Citramine™ (Citrus Reticulata Extract) (Fruit) (Concentrated For N-Methyltyramine Content), Caffeine Anhydrous
     
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  2. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    Phenethylamine -
    similar to amphetamine in its action, releases norepinephrine and dopamine When taken orally, though, it is rapidly metabolized

    I would guess that one could mess around with substitutions and make something a long the lines of Amphetamine/Phen psycopstimulant . Then again I don't know shit about chemistry

    so these may be something ---> N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince, And N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine

    I mean it could be a simple stimulant, or Mao-b could destroy it. not sure what the deal is with Phenylethylamince? it is spelled like that in a few of these new supplements.

    lets look at this Dendrobium stuff first factiod is its a species of orchid.


    which led me to a species "Noble Dendrobium (D. nobile)" or shí hú lán


    I did find a wealth of studies on PubMed.. most are in Chinese and have no abstracts.. I will however keep looking to see what I can find :D.. I like little research missions .

    I will add info here when I find it:

    A peer reviewed document about isolating the alkaloids listed above. shows chemical structure
    https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29966&stc=1&d=1354053138
    maybe a chemistry person can decipher it

    its being touted as a DMAA replacement by a few supplement companies I assume the Dendrobine, Dendroxine, and Dendramine are alkaloids.



     

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  3. Mick Mouse

    Mick Mouse Palladium Member Donating Member

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    What was the name of the "energy drink?" Had you used any chemicals prior to this episode?
     
  4. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    I think he means CRAZE. [​IMG]

    The prop blend matches exactly.

    There are other reports that sounds just like his on other sites. So there is probably some merit to it.. I'd guess

    It could also be a farce to hide a obscure Research Chemical additive.


    Now that I think about it, I am starting to suspect that the OP is trying to sell some "Craze" powder.

    The information on the product is just enough to raise suspicion. For example I could find the PDF documenting that those alkaloids actually exist. The webpage for crazy cites "many reports".. yeh well they exist on pub med... they are all in Chinese and have no abstracts.

    Then you have the issue with those pesky molecules N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince and N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine they claim from the orchids too. whelp I can find no proof in the documentation available.

    I also found a website questioning the validity of the claims



    Which raises the question of what is actually in the shit.. leftover DMAA? and Research Chemical or stimulant B-phenylethylamines that are either from the plant or pharmaceutical...

    Seems like a set up to me.. Probably has a banned active.. or an inert shit supplement that is being aggressively marketed using a plant extract that has just enough information to make it interesting

    If these plants had that strong of cns stimulant activity.. it would have a lot more documentation than a mention that it was used in ancient china. And people would know about it

    Sorry in advance to the OP if his question was legit :)
     

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  5. tomotd11562

    tomotd11562 Newbie

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    There was a huge topic about how people said they changed formula. Probably removing the illegal additive, I just been looking at the other forums

    Just a bunch of posts like this

    "Lol.. got a great story for this one. This is THE only pre workout to tweak me the fuck out.
    Took a serving as directed, got a couple miles away from my gym before I noticed the crazy focus. I don't think I blinked the time I felt it to my arrival to the gym. Parked my car, got my ipod set up, and finished texting (my head was down the whole time) I guess it really kicked in during that time. I looked up, got crazy anxiety and was scared being in my own car, like I felt claustrophobic and one of my eyes started tearing up. After I go to the bathroom, I had THE best workout I have ever had (next to vasotropin)

    "To this day I don't know how I feel about
    I PERSONALLY believe its f****** adderall, coke, and a little bit of meth for starters....oh did i mention adderall????????"


    It would be amazing to knows the true pharmacology behind this "supplement".

    Because this stuff gives more motivation then meth. I felt like Unlike meth i actually was able to accomplish some of my motivational thought instead of just thinking about them until it wears off.
     
  6. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    ^I found some documentation that further our active is NOT orchid extract.

    From pubmed
    The use of orchids in Chinese medicine
    Christopher J Bulpitt et el

    Check Dendrobine off the list of possible stimulants :p



    Full document --> https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29968&stc=1&d=1354059960

    I don't know.. maybe science and history missed something in the stems of these flowers that is a stimulant lol :p


    N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince and N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine still stand out to me.. and could be the stim..

    I just noticed something Citrus Reticulata Extract = synephrine = a basic stim (not real strong)

    then you have another trademarked blend called Citramine which says it contains N-methyltyramin

    N-methyltyramin is an alkaloid found in low concentration. its the N-methyl of tyramine,
    its at least a weak stimulant.

    it also contains Naringenin (per the information provided by the manufacturer)
    not sure what this does to help lol



    The you have a class action lawsuit Filed in march of 2012.. For this very product!.. its full of fun stuff to add to the speculation. amongst one that claims the product contains AMPHETAMINES

    here is a link to a detailed article (it wont let me copy and paste due to copyright )
    http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...e-workout-supplement-hit-with-CA-class-action

    read it here ----> https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29969&stc=1&d=1354062294

     

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  7. JTC3889

    JTC3889 Silver Member

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  8. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    Yea that would be my guess. Judging by some of the reports, they had that stuff juiced up for a while... why sell a hard core stim and a preworkout supplement? weird..

    I guess they seem to be in some trouble for it.

    anyway the parent company driven sports LLC is accumulating lawsuits for craze

    The Tawnsaura Group, LLC v. Driven Sports, Inc x2 for patent infringement on L-citrulline and the wording on the patent

    the thing that is bothering me is the fact there is a "N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince", And a "N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine". At first I thought Phenylethylamince was probably a typo.. but if it were a typo that doesn't explain why the same "N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine" is listed twice.. So it might be a correct spelling.. but what the fuck changes the nomenclature to Phenylethylamince? They use Phenylethylamince on all varieties of craze that I have seen, the web page and advertisements (even on multiple lawsuits.. I know what an amine is .. never seen a amicce.. could they have used that nomenclature for another chemical just to throw people off?


    On the frontier: Analytical chemistry and the occurrence of illicit drugs in surface waters 1 in the USA: United States Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Research and Development

    n,n'-DMPEA seems to be an industrial flavoring agent (odd) and it also is a isobaric compound to meth? So when they do a chemical analysis it will test hot for meth unless they don't test it at a specific level? That is not improving the odds that this will go well for driven sports in their lawsuit.. they are looking specifically for amphetamine.. is there a chance that n,n'-DMPEA would test hot for DMamphetamine just by being so similar?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  9. ethnosplendor

    ethnosplendor Newbie

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    Great info Bassoodler, I would be really interested to hear what the true ingredient list is.
     
  10. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    Clarification from driven from another forum (or lack of clarification)

    The only reason I am looking into this is there is apparently something in it that is new or hidden. There are gobs of reports.. hell its a big seller and is winning supplement awards. In other words curiosity got the best of me

    Copy and paste from another forum. The Driven sports reps are quoted in purple text and the non reps are green, just to make it easier to read.

    I almost felt bad for the 2 Driven sports guys while reading this lol.. reps were Driven Sports Andy[@]xxxDS.com and Matt Cahill




    [COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=seagreen][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=#9932cc][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=#9932cc][COLOR=seagreen][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=seagreen][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=purple][COLOR=seagreen][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=#9932cc][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid][COLOR=darkorchid]


    [B]this Thread should be moved to nootropics[/B].. The users questioning it claim the side effects are More a long the lines of something like sulbutamine .. increased mental focus.. and we have some questions about a couple unknown B-phen analogs.. or some unnamed alkaloid

    Could the N,N'-B-DmPEA be psychoactive? or the N,N'-B-Phenylethylamince (which may be the most well documented typo in history). it just seems like the reps did everything possible to avoid talking about the B-Phenylethylamine analogs or their origin..[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  11. tomotd11562

    tomotd11562 Newbie

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    I don't think its just "increased mental focus", Its more on the lines of "Profound fascination and enjoyment in even the most mundane activities"

    The reason I posted about this "supplement" in Methamphetamine is because the effect it had on me was so alike to methamphetamine only much cleaner. It's just I felt a much greater stimulation and euphoria from this drink then .5grams of very methamphetamine that was of a high purity.

    Unforgettably there was an extremely rapid tolerance, almost like a one time thing, after that one time I only felt energy but not much dopamine.

    Once I felt the energy drink wear off, I became extremely depressed and that feeling has not gone away even after a 1.5 month break off all stimulants. 3 weeks after that occurance, I decided to chase that high with meth and adderall and now I am very addicted to it. Before that when I did meth or high dosases of adderall, I felt very depressed for a day or so but things would return back to normal with a couple days.

    Maybe there was a reason behind do not exceed 2 scoops full in 24 hours.Its just if I think back if I never bought this energy drink, I would never have become addicted to meth. Now all I want to know is wtf was really in this sh**.
     
  12. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    I am almost 100% sure this stuff came back clean. The lawsuit is done etc

    Those phens are also spreading to new products

    I managed to get sigma binding on one of them..shulgin also mentioned N'N-dimethyl-B-PEA in the isomer design section in the pea section.

    I am just going to make info threads on the molecules.. I don't buy this orchid shit.
    Some Acacia it in high concentration. They seem to be in plants with DMT. Diethyl is extremely rare.
     
  13. tomotd11562

    tomotd11562 Newbie

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    They obviously changed the formula around some time in april/may when the, lawsuits started coming in,

    I did some extra digging and was browsing some forums and it seams people have stopped comparing it to speed/meth/cocaine. I found a huge thread about how people are saying the ingredients where changed and it does not produce the same effects. Here are what some people said, Update I think i found what was in it but not 100% confident its true.

    N-Benzyl-2-Phenylethylamine, any input on this compound


    awww_chemexper_com_cheminfo_servlet_com_actelion3_research_chec7e500a36681c584b2530552e1f42803.png

    What other people are saying

    "their attorneys sent me a letter telling me not to say bad or untrue things about craze. i sent them a letter back saying i wont say anything that was untrue or malicious
    i have a pretty good idea whats goin on with that product but i cant tell anyone. i was sent two jars - one old batch and one newer one - and i tested both"


    "But I gotta say one thing. Craze does NOT do what it used to. On 4th tub currently, 2 grape then 2 lemon. I DID think it was result of tollerance, but I kinda think now, did I noticed it on my 2nd tub, that was grape?? It's not a matter of MORE scoops though. I have always, from day 1, done 2 scoops. More just kind of makes you sick.

    But here's the really weird thing, and here's why I'm "kinda" on board with the OP. I had an anphetamine-like experience through that first tub.

    I do Not get that anymore. It's much more a caffine high. There IS a difference. I mean, who's NOT gonna think it's a tollerance issue, right?"


    "Nah truth be told is that grape masks the taste of meth better than berry lemonade, thus they had to lower the dose of meth in the new flavor which has led all the CrazeHeads to revolt and carry pitchforks to demand answers!"

    "I used Craze a long time ago and couldn't handle even 1 scoop. It really felt like I was on an illegal drug and actually binned the product as I was worried it might harm my brain/body.

    However, I bought Craze again last week. I take 1 scoop and handle it just fine. Good energy and focus with no negative effects. However I didn't get the euphoric feeling like I did previously. Very puzzling."

    and this one stood out to me this

    "well actually if you were to read this entire thread you would find several people claiming to have the very same experience as me, whether they say they "like" the new craze better than the old craze or not is a whole diff story , but several (or more) people have claimed, just in this thread alone, that the new craze is somewhat "different" than the old craze. For me, I prefer the old craze because I used to abuse adderall back in freshmen year of college, and the old craze literally feels like adderall without the jitteryness and anxiety of adderall (this is not an accusation of there being amphetamines in craze). For someone not used to powerful stimulants I could see why the "new" craze feeling might be preffered over the "old" craze feeling"
     
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  14. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    y Ahh.. why were those not mentioned in the other lawsuit threads
    anyway I found a Chinese forum that actually had the emails between the Chinese vendor and driven sports.
    N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine is a molecule that he was at lease asking for.. at the time of the emails the price was too high

    also, I saw reports from as recently as July 2012 saying it was stronger than amphetamine or 3-fa . This seems to be hit or miss.. just from reading the forums it seems like it gets some people tweaked, some people hyper focus and others get nothing.


    5-AT, 7beta-OH-DHEA are two more compounds he was ordering a long with some on the ingredients.. He seemed juiced about N'N-Diethyl-2-PEA too

    Rc Vendor fail:

    N-beta-ethyl-methylPEA - sounds close to amphetamine

    N'n-diethyl-b-PEA is also one he had them make custom from what the email says. If N'N-Dimethyl has Sigma activity, is it safe to assume that ethyl does as well?


    N-Benzyl-2-phenylethylamine ( benethamine)
    CAS: 3647-71-0
    smiles: C(Cc1ccccc1)NCc1ccccc1
    Hazard CodesXi: Irritant;Risk Statements
    36/37/38
    I actually looked this up lol - R36/37/38:-Irritating to eyes, respiratory system and skin

    Has a very strange patent


    N-benzl-b-PEA is a 5htp2 agonist (maybe .. ). Could explain euphoria

    N'N-ethyl-b-methylPEA - ? I need to look up.. could be the main stim.. the only issue is emails indicate that the price was too high per kg. And they may not have bought in to it

    N-benzyl-2-PEA - a case could be made that the removal was based on n-benzyl-2-PEA's not being found in plantlife. It is also an irratant to lungs and skin.. I wouldnt mess with buying pure powder. based on the pharmacology quote below.. I don't think this kept you up 3 days




    The reason I'd suspect N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine is somebody got nailed for the methyl/methyl molecule. The one they talked about just subs eth for meth

    N-Methyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine which is a positional isomer of methamphetamine. I don't think it was all that exciting though.. like a short acting Adriatic


    Further more, if the FDA or a lawsuit had busted the product, why is it winning still awards? The Cahill guy is sketchy and has been arrested for having a basement lab.

    Does anyone know how substituting ethyl for methyl would effect binding? For example, I have at least some data for N'N-dimethyl-2-pea.. could that be somehow related to N'N-Diethyl-2-PEA.. same goes for N-(ethyl/methyl)-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine

    Basoodler added 654 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

    I'm convinced after reading these forms of a few things

    1) this is nothing but 3 owners of 3 competing businesses acting like catty drama queens

    2) D.S. loved the law suites and would welcome more speculation.. because it sells product

    3) the N-benzyl-pea was found by a competitor.. that Arnold dude who claims he invented DMAA. That's like burger king saying they tested a big Mac and its tainted with giraffe shit.

    4) who gives a fuck if 2-benzyl-PEA was in there.. its not illegal., its available to buy and its not expensive.


    ..........

    Its like a couple kids

    Hey! You put an extra exotic pea analog in your stuff

    Did not

    Yes you did

    Did not!

    I'm telling mom

    Mom says " shut the fuck up you brats.. who cares,"


    5) the whole nutrition scene is full of immature men who gossip like a tribe of old ladies. its annoying.




    6) the stuff is full of b-pea & analogs... Why would they hide another from the consumer?
    • N'N'-DIMethyl, N'N-DiEthyl, B-Pea from extract,more B-Pea Hcl (I guess for good measure..)and PEA
    • Says the two exotics come from orchids, but there is no proof on the internet or otherwise that it has ever been extracted from orchids.. I have not seen anyone question that
    • If the Emails that were posted from the company (I have my doubts actually). Then DA asked the chemist to figure out N'N'-Diethyl. The chemists keeps updating on the progress with quality and yields.
    • There is not even a shred of evidence that N-benzyl-PEA is a super stimulant.. As far as I know it is similar to PEA with a longer half life. May be 5htp2 (maybe.. bit maybe) and weak sigma
    • Its been used with penicillin for a while.. Don't see many tweaked sick people :p
    7) the whole story about the competitor finding benzyl .. sounds like bullshit. First of all he says there were only two peaks, 1 being benzyl and the other.. he didn't know , says maybe diethyl.. second he says he was sent the sample in an open container.. probably a baggy by the Driven Sports LLC... why the fuck would DA send a tainted sample to a competitor in an open container... they wouldn't!!!

    To be honest the whole thing reminds of WWF wrestling drama.. these big dramatic accusations.. class action lawsuits.. one guy dramatically reveals test results .. the other counters with his own.. all of this shit right on bodybuilding forums.. with little skirmishes like wrestling matches.. all they need is rick flair and randy macho man savage to jump into forum. .. its probably just manufactured drama to sell product

    Some of the people on those sites need to be honest with themselves and buy real drugs. Consuming all of those unknown chemicals of unknown quality is no better than taking research chemicals. Only you actually catch a buzz on rc's, and not consuming copious amounts of potentially dangerous compounds .. and hoping for a buzz

    To sum up:

    Benzyl pea is mixed with antibiotics.. sick people are not tweaked... if it was in the first batches , I would guess it was because the N'N-diethyl was still in a late stage of development.. or maybe an impurity.

    The two N'N-D-pea analogs can't be discounted as likely suspects.. N'N-dimethyl has two more tell tell signs than all the other shit.. 1) shulgin ..mentions it in pihkal 2) somebody thought enough of it to study it in comparison to dmt , cocaine etc. Not to mention that study shows some promise

    The whole back story about tainting etc is too dramatic to follow. DA is eating up Arnold's dumb as claim that it has benzyl pea.. even though Arnold said "it is most likely of no consequence ".. its become urban legend.. Arnold sells supplements too.. I don't believe for a second that he passed up using a "meth like" stim.. he is one of the guys who helped get DMAA banned.. his stuff would be full of it too... its probably the N'N-pea combined with inhibitors that makes the magic

    The new jersey lawsuit I linked up in my 2nd or third post.. its about 2 trademarks.

    Don't forget the orchids (here is a list of alkaloids.. no peas)

    Chemical Part Lo ppm Hi ppm Reference

    4-HYDROXYDENDROXINE Stem DUKE1992A 6-HYDROXYDENDROBINE Stem DUKE1992A 6-HYDROXYDENDROXINE Stem DUKE1992A 6-OXYDENDROBINE Stem DUKE1992A 6-OXYDENDROXINE Stem DUKE1992A ARSENIC Plant DUKE1992A BETA-SITOSTEROL Plant DUKE1992A BETA-SITOSTEROL-BETA-D-GLUCOSIDE Plant DUKE1992A CALCIUM Stem 6530 DUKE1992A COPPER Stem 9 DUKE1992A DENBINOBIN Plant DUKE1992A DENDRAMINE Plant DUKE1992A DENDRIN Stem DUKE1992A DENDRINE Plant DUKE1992A DENDROBINE Stem DUKE1992A DENDROBINE-N-OXIDE Plant DUKE1992A DENDROXINE Stem DUKE1992A IRON Stem 90 DUKE1992A MAGNESIUM Stem 520 DUKE1992A MANGANESE Stem 53 DUKE1992A MERCURY Stem 0.05 DUKE1992A N-ISOPENTENYL-6-HYDROXYDENDROXINIUM-CHLORIDE Plant DUKE1992A

    N-ISOPENTENYLDENDROBIUM-BROMIDE Plant DUKE1992A N-ISOPENTENYLDENDROXINE Plant DUKE1992A N-ISOPENTENYLDENDROXINIUM-CHLORIDE Plant DUKE1992A NOBILINE Plant DUKE1992A NOBILOMETHYLENE Stem DUKE1992A NOBILONINE Stem DUKE1992A POTASSIUM Stem 7200 DUKE1992A SODIUM Stem 156 DUKE1992A ZINC

    Those hydroxy alkaloids have been studied .. but its all in Chinese..they said on the label they use this extract.. they don't have to list all of the contents on the label.

    If one had a low ppm and is a stem.. they can make it in a lab, and are not bound to listing it.. just sayin
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  15. tomotd11562

    tomotd11562 Newbie

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    How about the synergistic effects between, the methy tyramine and the methyl group donator and PEA

    There is some occurance of dopamine neuromodulation and some activation of TAAR1

    tyramine>B-PEA>octopamine>m-tyramine>dopamine>tryptamine>histamine>serotonin>norepinephrine

    octopamine and tryptamine are both found in the citrus reticulata.. possibly added to the forumal as part of the citrus reticulata extract off label, hmm
     
  16. tomotd11562

    tomotd11562 Newbie

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    This was overstatement though. Though this stuff is very close to speed and its legal
     
  17. Mir6

    Mir6 Silver Member

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    Craze by Driven Sports. Having a few times taken a couple of Phenylethylamine/PEA capsules (available at many online sports supplements stores) with a coffee and experienced a clear dopamine/motivation semi-euphoric high for about 1.5-2 hours, I was excited when I learned about that product because people on forums were saying they felt that high up to 6-7 hours without a crash.

    With PEA there's a rapid tolerance that sets in (you can't take the same dose of PEA two days in a row and expect the same results) and I thought they had figured a way to get rid of that tolerance so I could take PEA more than once every two weeks and feel the full effects.

    Now, as tomotd11562 noted, people on bodybuilding forums who say they've tried the first batch have noticed a difference between the original Craze, the first released to the public (before the lawsuits and all), and the newer Craze. The newer isn't as powerful and it isn't euphoric. The company says the formula hasn't changed but most people are not buying it. According to the info I gathered (i.e. expiration date), I purchased the newer batch. I can't compare to the first batch but I can compare it to PEA caps + caffeine.

    So I bought it 3 months ago, expecting to experience something similar to PEA + caffeine but lasting longer. After all it contains B-Phenylethylamine HCl + caffeine so I should at least get that feeling. But I got ...nothing!

    1 scoop was like taking a coffee and nothing more and it lasted 3 hours. A couple of days later I tried 2 scoops and it gave me the caffeine alertness but with a nagging nausea. By chance I skipped lunch so I didn't throw up. I tried working out a little thinking once I get going it might 'work' but I felt weaker than usual. I also got a headache and then had to take a walk half-naked outside at 14 F because the nausea had became stronger and I needed some cold fresh air. I didn't feel the shadow of a PEA 'high'. WTF? I'm not going to try 3 or 4 scoops.

    You can stop believing the hype about Craze. Either:

    A) some people respond like crazy and some don't feel much, or

    B) there was something 'special' about the first batch they sold and it's not coming back

    It might work as advertised for some people but you should try it first. But as far as I know they don't sell small sized samples. They're smart business people aren't they?

    he works for Gaspari I think, which recently relased a Craze-like product called Detonate:

    label says:
    Proprietary Blend 700mg. Dendrobium extract (stem), B-Phenylethylamine HCl, Tangerine extract (fruit), Caffeine anhydrous, Green tea extract (leaf), Green coffee bean extract, Asian ginseng (root), Black pepper extract (as BioPerine®) (fruit).

    they claim:
    "Dendrobium extract in key ratios with other ingredients in Detonate destroy DMAA and the old school stimulants like yohimbine and synephrine."


    LOL Has anyone tried this never-seen-before! POWERFUL!! competition-DESTROYING!!! stimulant? Count me among the skeptics. There's a reason why those companies don't sell small samples for you to try before you buy a full bottle.
     
  18. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    Holy shit balls!

    That Arnold guy was the worlds biggest dendrobium skeptic, and after his childish diatribes and goofy "I ran spectrometry on craze and found 2-B-PEA! It must be a super stim". I figured he would launch a 2B-pea product line with catchy names like "2B-e" and "2b-i" to capitalize on recent media

    I guess he decided to redact his skeptasizm and do a 180

    What i found amazing about all of this was that these natural extracts are anything but natura. They scour academica for interesting molecules.. in this case b-pea analogs.. contract a lab to price the synth .. secure a supply.. then find plant that contains it to credit it to.. in the case of craze they credit an entire group of plants "orchid" , dont say what strain of orchid.. and there is neither any proof its in one or a way to disprove it.

    Just a bunch of Research Chemical peddlers with a few extra rules to side step the law
     
  19. Mir6

    Mir6 Silver Member

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    To be honest I don't know if he's still working for Gaspari, his website says he "currently produces products for the nutritional supplement company E-pharm Nutrition, as well as for Prototype Nutrition". He may not be the formulator behind Detonate. My guess is that Gaspari felt they needed to compete with Driven Sports on the 'Craze' front and they asked someone to come up with a formula that mimicks Craze, whatever it does.

    The thing that sucks about those companies is that none of them seem confident enough with their products to offer small samples. I paid $40+ pour 238g of Craze and now I'm stuck with basically a grape cough syrup tasting caffeine powder. Meh. I should have paid 5 or 10$ for a couple of servings in disposable bags to try it out. Why do they only do that with protein powders? They should do that for almost every product that is supposed to quickly have an effect.
     
  20. Basoodler

    Basoodler Titanium Member

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    I think one of the mail sales stradegies for these companies is to build up hype for spe ific products using alternative methods. Like for instance with craze.. right off the bat sensationalist user reviews hit the forums, followed by accusations of amphetamine
    . The whole thing turned into a spectical.. with lawsuits and transcripts from chinese vendors.

    All that