1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

A question about MDMA's affects on the renal system

Discussion in 'Ecstasy & MDMA' started by Kalagast, May 13, 2006.

  1. Kalagast

    Kalagast

    Age:
    29
    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    I have read from a few sources (Lycaeum, etc.) that MDMA produces some strain on liver, heart, and kidney function. I'm mostly interested in the latter of these, but I'm having a difficult time finding any information on MDMA's affects on the kidneys in abundance.

    I'd be very grateful if anyone could provide me with some links or information about this. Specifically, I'm wondering if it would be significantly dangeorus for someone with only one kidney to ingest MDMA.
     
  2. Unsolved

    Unsolved

    Reputation Points:
    88
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    254
    Everything you ingest from drugs to certin foods can strain all these systems not just mdma. The body has to break everything down that you ingest which causes this internal strain. However I'm sure that it does strain these systems to some degree, dose dependant on how much the body is strained of course. Not more then any other susbtance that I'm aware of especially some of the anti rejection drugs used for transplants. These drugs are extremely stressful on the kidney and liver. Plus everyone is a little different, however I venture to guess with almost all normal people the strain is temporary on these organs and the all the organs will return back to normal function upon stopping your roll and getting some rest. As far as having only one working kidney and taking mdma, I just don't know either way. Anyone else out there know????
     
  3. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2

    Reputation Points:
    1,951
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    7,163
    I would suggest that you get in touch with your veterinarian regards the rat you met that has one kidney and enquire the dangers of giving it an amphetamine. An amphetamine is what you are speaking of here. If those with one kidney can tolerate an occasional amphetamine ride - there should be no problem. If rats with one kidney as contra-indicated for such - then steer clear.

    Where is our pet veterinarian when we need him....growl...sets loose the Flying Monkeys...
     
  4. Unsolved

    Unsolved

    Reputation Points:
    88
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    254
    Nagognog2 I like that "set loose the flying monkeys..." lol
     
  5. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker

    Reputation Points:
    2,851
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,237
    There are actually a couple of things that you need to clarify before you can acurately get the response that you are seeking...

    First of all, YES--MDMA DOES have effects on the kidneys. It is an ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) agonist: therefore, it can actually cause people to OVER-hydrate and these are the only reported deaths (that I'm aware of--actually according to SWIM's friend who plans on experimenting with MDMA and end-of-life care.)

    The most important question that is bothering me is this: Why do you only have one kidney? did you donate one to a relative? do you have renal failure/polycystic kidney disease, or what?

    Also, how OLD you are is pretty important as well. That makes me think either congenital malformation (like horshoe kidney or something like that) vs. you donated a kidney to a relative... Very different things.

    However, you must realize that you CAN NOT over-drink your water if you do, indeed, decide to try this drug. I know that this stands in the way of every suggestion i've ever seen to people in regard to taking MDMA, but in YOUR case, just a small amount of ADH coupled with too much water could cause you to actually DIE from the xtc.

    BTW, ADH, desmopressin, and vasopressin are all the same thing. I just can't recall if xtc causes a release of ADH or if it just acts like ADH on the kidneys... This is a hot topic right now in medical advice and harm-reduction. especially if it's true that the only deaths were due to overhydration.
     
  6. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

    Reputation Points:
    834
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,136
  7. youorme

    youorme Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    i'm gonna take a guess that this might be the appropriate place to pose this question-

    a friend of a friend's doctor ordered some routine lab work for them & it came back showing their kidneys functioning at a slightly lower rate than normal so their doctor is ordering more tests...

    this person apparently only indulges in mdma every couple of months or so, yet has been for several years. is it possible that the mdma use has affected their kidneys & if so, what helps kidneys get back up to speed, so to speak?
     
  8. Damocles

    Damocles Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    750
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Messages:
    418
    This is an extremely old thread, but any temporary loss of kidney function due to MDMA causing the release of vasopressin should be gone soon after discontinuation of MDMA and its last dose. Probably a day or so.

    Vasopresssin causes the kidneys to not pass as much fluid and is a normal reaction in the short term, but shouldn't cause long-term problems.

    That's not to say that long-term use/abuse or potential adulterants might also be an issue with normal kidney function. It's very complicated as to exactly what could be causing reduced kidney function, and without knowing full lab results, it would only be guess work. Additionally there may be other factors one might be exposed to, such as infection or other substances, not necessarily drugs but also diet which might also adversely affect kidney function.

    Caffeine is especially hard on the kidneys as well, so if you consume a lot of caffeinated beverages or coffee, this could also impact normal kidney function as well, people with poor kidney function are discouraged from consuming beverages containing lots of caffeine.

    In short, it's next to impossible to diagnose over the Internet, especially without knowing a complete medical history and full test results over a given time span.

    Be responsible...
     
  9. gossipgirl

    gossipgirl Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Hello,

    Do you think that for a person with renal lithiasis (easy form of kidney stones) it's dangerous to take a small dose of md? Let's say the equivalent (more or less) of a xtc pill?

    The 'cure' for this diagnosis is to drink about 4l of water per day because like this the kidneys are cleaning of those stones. So if the md does affect water's passing through kidneys is there any chance of making a crisis or to make the renal lithiasis worst? :confused:

    I'm thinking that maybe in a small dose it's not that harmful. :D
     
  10. TheCrystallineCook

    TheCrystallineCook Donating

    Reputation Points:
    1,035
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,298
    gossipgirl, for someone who is prone to developing kidney stones, consuming plenty of water to ensure the prevention of any stones further develping is usually the best means of prevention. However, it isn't that simple. If you are prone to getting them, then you would know how to properly avoid getting another. I don't see any reason why MDMA would increase your risk of forming another kidney stone as long as you stay properly hydrated and maintain proper electrolyte levels in the blood.

    With regard to the OP's question...

    Although MDMA and its effects are not thoroughly understood, there is sufficient evidence indicating that MDMA can induce both renal impairment and failure. As already mentioned, if you have already any deficiencies surrounding your kidney function it would be advisable to avoid any and all recreation and legal drugs that depend on renal excretion. You would hate to take some MDMA - speaking about anyone - and find out that you need dialysis for a few weeks or worse, the rest of your life. Here is a part of the summary of a medical study that very well articulates the dangers of MDMA consumption with regard to the damage it is capable of causing the consumer's organs. Interestingly, according to this study, MDMA is one of the leading causes of liver failure in people who are 25 or younger. It also acknowledges that the administration of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) while using MDMA can reduce some of its toxic effects.

    "Recent epidemiological studies indicate that 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, Ecstasy)1, a synthetic derivative of amphetamine with a range of psychotropic actions, is widely abused by mostly young people during rave parties (large social gatherings characterized by dancing and loud music). <--- I got a good laugh out of this! According to a United Nations report, the use of MDMA has reached epidemic proportions in the United States as well as in Europe [1–3]. Repeated usages of MDMA pose significant public health and social problems in the United States and other countries [1–3]. In fact, acute or sub-chronic exposure to MDMA alone or in combination with other abused substances (e.g., alcohol, cocaine, cannabis) can damage several organs such as the heart, liver, kidney, and brain, potentially leading to death, as evidenced by multiple deaths related to MDMA abuse [4–7]. Acute MDMA toxicity can lead to myocardial infarction and arrhythmia often accompanied with tachycardia, hypertension, and hyperthermia, all of which usually precede disseminated intravascular coagulation, rhabdomyolysis, and multiple organ failure or death [8, 9]. The life threatening clinical manifestations of MDMA toxicity also include acute hepatic damage [10–12], hyponatremia, and rhabdomyolysis-induced renal failure [13–15]. In addition, MDMA is known to interfere with endocrine, gonadal, and immune functions [16–18]. In the brain, MDMA was shown to deplete serotonergic neurotransmitter and cause neurodegeneration through serotonin transporter action, nitric oxide and peroxynitrite, and formation of neurotoxic MDMA metabolites [19–21].

    Although MDMA-mediated toxicities are well-established, the general public does not seem to fully appreciate the adverse consequences associated with MDMA usage. In fact, MDMA is a major cause of liver injury in people under the age of 25 years [12]. All these points suggest an urgent need to educate the public about the toxicities of MDMA. Although many reports have demonstrated MDMA-induced organ damage [11–13], the underlying mechanism accounting for tissue toxicity is poorly understood. Various factors contribute to the extent of MDMA-induced injury to different tissues. For instance, MDMA metabolism [22], the increased efflux of neurotransmitters [22, 23], hyperthermia [24], increased oxidative/nitrosative stress, and the oxidation of catecholamines and various proteins [25, 26] are suggested to be involved in MDMA-related neuronal injury. Several reports indicate that reactive quinone metabolites of MDMA contribute to MDMA-mediated toxicities [22, 27]. The metabolism of MDMA involves N-demethylation to 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine while both MDMA and 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine are demethylated to catecholamines [N-methyl-α-methyldopamine and α-methyldopamine, respectively] that can undergo oxidation to corresponding quinones. Quinones are highly redox-active molecules that can undergo the following pathways: (a) a redox cycle producing semiquinones radicals, leading to the generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) [28, 29]; (b) irreversible 1,4-intramolecular cyclization with subsequent formation of aminochromes [25]; (c) conjugation with reduced glutathione (GSH) to form a glutathionyl adduct that can further react with GSH and protein thiols, leading to GSH depletion [27, 30]; and d) formation of MDMA-protein adducts, leading to inactivation of the target proteins [31]. Taken together, these results indicate that MDMA metabolism with increased production of ROS and/or toxic oxidation products coincident with GSH depletion may be responsible for liver damage. It is also believed that other tissues including brain, heart and kidney would be affected in a similar mechanism following the metabolism of MDMA [32, 33]. Since antioxidant defense systems become severely impaired upon MDMA exposure, administration of small molecule antioxidants such as N-acetylcysteine and ascorbic acid or over-expression of antioxidant enzymes like superoxide dismutase, can potentially neutralize the toxic effects of MDMA [27, 34]. Depletion of GSH levels following MDMA exposure correlates with increased oxidative stress accompanied with lipid peroxidation, DNA damage, protein oxidation and cell damage [27, 29, 35, 36]. Furthermore, it was shown that reactive nitrogen species (RNS) including nitric oxide (NO) and peroxynitrite (ONOO−) are also involved in MDMA-mediated toxicity [19, 37–40]. The overall processes for increased production of MDMA-induced oxidative/nitrosative stress and functional consequences are summarized in Fig. (1)."
    Source:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2911494/
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015