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Addiction - About to Kick Large Kratom Habit

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by REDSOXFAN, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Hello.

    I am a 1.5 - 1.75 oz user a day (a lot , I know), but due to financial and other reasons, needs to kick this habit, and SOON!!

    my question is, what does SWIM do to start coming off this? I have pegged April 8-12 for the final detox and kicking of the habit, but SWIM really wants to know what to do beforehand in terms of slowly stepping down.

    I am terrified about doing this as I dont like life sober, but I know it has to figure this out now as things have gotten bad...

    How does SWIM Start? What can SWIM do?

    Can weed help out during the final detox phase?

    All the help on here is greatly appreaciated by me as I am really really scared of this whole process..
     
  2. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Hi, please read the rules.
    I have mailed you previously warning you that I am not permitted on this site, i am not sure why you insist on using it still.

    I recommend you read through the threads here and in the addiction forum, there are a LOT of threads posted by people who have quit or are in the process of quitting kratom. You will learn a lot from reading them.

    I suggest that you start to taper your dose.
    Go as long as you can without taking any kratom and then find the smallest dose that will make the withdrawals bearable. This will let your tolerance drop fast.
    Leave as long as possible between doses and only take enough to take the edge off, not to get high,

    Or, you can do a slow taper by reducing the amount of kratom you take slowly every few days. You will have to find how much is comfortable for you.

    Here are some threads to get you started, many should be relevant
    Threads marked 'kratom' in the addiction forum https://drugs-forum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=4685963

    Threads marked 'addiction' in the kratom forum https://drugs-forum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=4685966
     
  3. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Apologies...will read much better


    Wont happen again..

    Just lookin for help!

    REDSOXFAN added 3 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

    Can I edit it?

    Feel very stupid for doing that...again..
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  4. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    It always seems like an impossible task when you decide to quit but I think that if you try tapering that you will find that if you stick to it for a while that things will start to look a lot better after a week or two.
    I find that large daily amounts of kratom come with a lot of negative side effects that are not present with lower doses, once you drop your dose you will feel a lot better about it.

    You can use recommend doses of paracetamol for any aces and pains, hot baths help a lot too.
    Valeria extract can help with anxiety and insomnia.
    If you can exercise that can help a lot too.
    Try to stay active, physically and mentally. Thinking about it can really take a toll.
    I recommend avoiding drugs but many find cannabis helpful, Just don't go for anything stronger.
    Talking about how you feel is good to, you might need to vent and this site is good for getting things off your chest.

    But do read other people's threads, there is a lot of good advice here.
     
  5. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Thanks, I do appreciate that..

    For me, I smoked pot from 1995-2008 and have done kratom ever since, as I HATE being sober as the anxiety and stress I feel are awful. At this point, I have no idea what a full day not on something is like, and it scares me.

    I am a dad and my kid thinks the world of me, so for him to see me in the state I am gonna be in is also tough.

    I have found kratom to be a LIFE SAVER, but now, due to the amounts and dosage, its becoming LIFE AFFECTING...so I have to do what I have to do.

    I have told everyone close to me (WIFE / MOM) about this, so I there is no turning back for me, which I 100% need...so I do plan on writing and writing if needed to get things off my chest..

    BASE LINE - I AM TERRIFIED of being normal all day, even after the withdrawal.

    For withdrawal I am going to my mothers for 4 days in a few weeks to finish getting off it, with some pot with me to help things out...
     
  6. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    If you can do it could turkey then great but don't put too much pressure on yourself of a slip up could turn into more than it has to be
    I would try getting your tolerance down first by going as long as you can and then taking a small dose to take the edge off.
    I've done cold turkey on different amounts and it can be rough, if you have people who rely on you or you can't afford to be out of action for too long then tapering is a better option.
    Th trap a lot of, people fall into when tapering is they don't start with a lower dose and they end up doing it too slowly and get bored of it. I think that starting out with a much lower dose gives you enough of a reminder that you are working towards something.

    Try to know episodes it to one dose a day. Many find it easier to take it at night to avoid the insomnia and restless leg syndrome.
    Stick to the same type of kratom throughout the taper and if you think you can skip a day when go for it. Don't take some just because you made it to 24 hours, push it as far as you can and unless absolutely necessary do not ever increase the dose once you have gotten into it. That's another trap people fall into, they reward themselves with a little extra
     
  7. Cilonen

    Cilonen Silver Member

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    You would propably figure this out yourself if you would just read enough about Kratom addiction, but i, and many others, find Loperamide very helpful to get rid of the bad cravings, and restlessness. If you are scared of the withdrawals then this might help you a lot.
    Like Ianzombie, i'd advise to taper first, before you jump off and take Loperamide in reasonable doses for not more than 3 days. For me 10mg is enough to feel better the whole day. Please be aware that Loperamide is addictive too and can be dangerous, and that you should inform yourself about safe use, on this forum for example.

    10g Mulungu+ Melatonin 30 min before sleep helps me A LOT to relax a bit, to fall asleep directly and actually rest for a couple of hours. Without this i would not be able to sleep at all.

    I'm in a similar situation as you. I was addicted to weed since i was 16, then i switched to Kratom and got addicted, and i take also ridiculously high amounts. I'm also scared (but also excited) how life will be when seen through a sober mind again. Today is my first 'sober' day. I'm in the mids of withdrawal...

    Good luck man!
     
  8. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Good luck to you...

    I plan on reading through this the next few days...

    I am not excited in the least however as the thought of being "normal" all the time spooks me as I am not nearly as productive that way as I am with kratom...

    So my tapering begns tomorrow...and the fear is already there.

    I will be getting some loperimide / Mulungu / Melatonin this week

    Please let me know how it goes for you as I am very interested.....
     
  9. Cousin Merle

    Cousin Merle Titanium Member

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    ianzombie has some good advice. I have gone through kratom withdrawls a couple times, but I was never taking as much as you. The most I was taking was about 30 grams (1 ounce) a day.

    Tapering down some first will make things easier. I don't know if this is an option for you or not, but I have found kratom Stem & Vein very helpful when tapering or taking breaks. It is still kratom, but weaker, and is thought to contain some compounds that help reduce tolerance. In fact, at least 2 times what I did was transition from regular kratom to stem & vein over the period of a week or so. I ended up taking the same amount of stem & vein (30 grams), but it has the same effect of tapering/reducing your amount because it is so much weaker. When transitioning to the stem & vein, I went through some mild withdrawls, but nothing really bad. When I was fully on the stem & vein, I just quit cold turkey. I still had some withdrawls for 3-4 days, but they were not that bad. Mostly just hot & cold flashes, muscle aches, insomnia, night sweats. It was comparable to having a mild-moderate flu, minus the fever/GI symptoms.

    Instead of using stem & vein, you can also just use your regular kratom but reduce the amounts. I agree with ian - try and make a big enough inital step-down so that you feel a bit uncomfortable, but not unbearable.

    Using weed during the withdrawls is not a bad idea if it helps, and as long as you feel you will not go back to being addicted to it. I have used a few "helpers" during Withdrawals - etizolam to help combat insomnia, kanna to help with mood, caffeine and pseudoephedrine to help with energy levels during the day. Just keep your use of "helpers" to a minimum - you don't want to get dependent on one of them.

    Let us know how it goes!
     
  10. thirdeyelasik

    thirdeyelasik Silver Member

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    I have been where you are and I was deathly afraid of the kratom w/d. What I found out was that the main issues it w/d caused me were raging RLS, boredom, yawning hundreds of times a day, lethargy, and a mild headache. It sounds worse than it actually was going through it. I feel you 100% about not enjoying feeling normal as I am still there right now...not sure if that ever goes away for me. I had to emergency taper because my kratom got lost in the mail and I ran completely out. I refused to pay crazy price at a head shop for shite so I just halfed my dose the first 2 days and by day 3 I was using just a tiny amount to sleep and to wake up. During the day I took caffeine, tylenol, and a primatene tablet containing a small amount of ephedrine. This got me through work and when the RLS got really bad I used a small amount of lopermide(like 6mgs). At night to fall asleep I had one alcohol drink and took a flexiril(but you can use OTC stuff like unisom for decent results).

    A week and a half later my kratom magically appeared in the mail and to this day I only use it every now and then when the boredom of the work week takes over. I refuse to fall back into the daily trap but just knowing that I have something to make the day better and take away the sobriety blues helps keep me going(as weird as that sounds). Good luck and you will find it isn't as bad as it seems it will be getting off of kratom.
     
  11. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I would advise against using Loperamide, it is always in my opinion a bad idea to use a more addictive drug to get off another.
    Loperamide is very addictive and in large doses can be dangerous. The withdrawals seem to last a lot longer than kratom and they seem to be a lot more severe.
    Tapering kratom should be enough without using other addictive drugs. If the withdrawals are too much then slow the taper down.
     
  12. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Had a bad today at work full of anxiety and stress, but did do a little less during the day and dropped the phenibut completely (I need to get that little bit out of me first...which seems to be working...)..

    I took a normal does about an hour ago tonight to try and enjoy a few hours after my son goes to bed so my whole day isnt shit and full of awfulness...

    I do know the RLS stuff already as before I took my dose an hour ago, I had gone HOURS without a full dose and only smaller ones (not small, but less than what I was doing) and by the end, I just wanted to walk around and started thinking a lot about my feelings.....

    So the start is on, phenibut first, then the Kratom....and I cant have it here afterward, too much of an addictive personality...pot may come back in my future...

    Plus I am going to see a doctor after I get done with this to get looked at for possible ADHD as my symptoms outside of kratom seem to point that way...

    So all kinds of messed up!
     
  13. Cilonen

    Cilonen Silver Member

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    I agree that it might be a bad idea to risk this since it is much easier and worse to get addicted to drugs like Loperamide than Kratom. I'd say that you should try to withdraw without this stuff if you can. I however find that i cannot withdraw without it, at least Lope makes it bearable for me. So i limit myself to take it for 2 days only.
    But ya, i think it is important to underline how serious this is when you even decide to take Loperamide, it's not a joke at all and you should stick to your limitations and really have a good reason why you rather want to risk addiction than experiencing worse withdrawals.
    I believe it is safe to use Phenibut and Loperamide for a heavy Kratom addiction as long as you make sure that you are extremly cautious and sensible.
     
  14. blacksparrow

    blacksparrow Mercury Member

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    Maybe the problem is you don't like living sober.. ? What if that were the first change to make?
     
  15. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Yeah,

    I think I am ready to do the sober living thing...I am...

    Just really scared about the quitting, which starts this Tuesday night and I have until Sunday to get clean as I go back to my job on Monday...

    Terrified is the proper word for it right now!

    REDSOXFAN added 3 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

    So does the weed help out?

    Being a former long time smoker and fan of the drug...curious if it helps me..

    Also, what should I have with me for my Tuesday - Sunday battle...can you guys give me a survival kit?

    I will be with my mom at her house with no one else around and only she and I hanging out, so that is a good thing....

    Let me know as I keep saying, I am REALLY scared and just wanna get through it so when I am done I know to not go back to this....
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  16. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    You are not leaving a lot of time for yourself. I would not be in such a rush. While it would be great if you could manage it I think you should consider the fact it might take longer.
    If you decide to go cold turkey and you are not recovered by the time you go back to work then consider taking the smallest amount you can find to make you able to deal with a working day, at least enough to get you through until you get home.
    Staying on a low dose will let your tolerances drop and then the next time yo have days off go without.
    If you need more the next time yo work after that then take even less.
    Basically work your taper to include working days.

    Hopefully it won't be necessary but don't leave yourself unable to perform in work either.

    Always stick to the bare minimum and never up the dose once you have started.
     
  17. Cousin Merle

    Cousin Merle Titanium Member

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    Try and keep a positive mindset, this works wonders. If you think its going to be bad, then it probably will be bad. My experiences with kratom withdrawl were really not that bad - like 3-4 days of feeling like you have the flu plus some restlessness and insomnia. That was from approximately 1 ounce a day habit. So try and stay positive and think positive thoughts.

    As for "helpers", having some kind of sedative/relaxant does help. Kava (if it works for you) helps quite a bit. I've used etizolam (similar to benzos) to help with the restlessness and insomnia, and it does help some. Just don't take it for more than a few days. Maybe not the best thing in the world, but I've heard of some people using alcohol to help with withdrawls - just drinking a small-moderate amount for a couple days to help smooth things over. I personally wouldn't do this, but some people say it works. Just don't overdo things so you end up having a hangover on top of your kratom Withdrawals symptoms....

    Some people use phenibut to manage Withdrawals symptoms. I've had mixed results with phenibut, but it may be worth a try- just don't mix it with benzos or etizolam for safety reasons.

    Staying physically active helps- even though it is tough, physical exercise really helps a lot. Also, hot baths with epsom salts helps quell the achyness.

    I've also used sceletium tortuosum to help with the anxiety/depression - it works wonders, though does not help with the physical Withdrawals symptoms.

    If I had to have just 2 things to help out going through kratom WD. I would say - sceletium tortuosum (kanna) during the day for mental health reasons, and etizolam at night to help with sleep/restlessness.

    Even quitting a 1 ounce/day habit, I was still able to function, go to work, etc. with some "helpers". So it may not be as bad as you think.
    Just keep reminding yourself that it isn't going to be that bad, and that the worst will be over in 3-4 days at the most. Hang in there!
     
  18. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Thanks for the advice...

    I am gonna start the tapering tonight and through the weekend, work a few days and then really hit the taper Tuesday - Sunday and hopefully see how things are then...

    Thanks so much for all the words as my fun is just beginning..

    My last full dose was 5 hours ago and I can feel the withdrawal kind of starting...but I am gonna taper a does with some phenibut so I can sleep here in a while...maybe take a puff as well!
     
  19. Cilonen

    Cilonen Silver Member

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    What helps me at the moment...

    1. Loperamide (10mg) to kill cravings and RLS

    2. Mulungu (10g) + Melatonin at night to fall asleep

    3. Hot showers (or bath if you can) for relaxation of my muscles

    4. Weed distracts, relaxes, alleviates mood

    5. Caffeinated vitamin drinks, self made juice, Protein Shakes and green tea

    6. L-Tyrosine and L-Theanine seems to help to decrease nervousness

    7. Staying busy and active -- taking a walk while listening to music or cleaning my house. If you really can't force yourself to work out or move, then at least do something which you usually enjoy (read, make art, do somehting sensual)

    8. Two vodka shots (caution: Loperamide combined with alcohol is dangerous) while watching an emotional movie. You might be surpised of your mood swings. But i find that it helps to get emotionally relieved. (you might cry like a little girl about banalities even.)

    8. Yoga, Meditation

    9. Go out with friends to distract you from your body-sensations

    10. Receive a massage

    11. Reminding yourself that you're doing good and it's only X days left until you feel much better. It will pass and at the end there are rewards. And propably nice surprises...

    12. Reminding yourself that the time will come when you won't be a slave to this drug anymore and will feel better then ever, your emotions won't be supressed by Kratom anymore, you get your motivation back

    13. Write a top 5 list why you want to quit and look at that list every morning and every time you feel bad. Close your eyes, focus on breathing and increasing relaxation of all body parts for some minutes. The visualize vividly how you will feel when you reached these 5 aims. Imagine as if it is already there. You might need some practise and at first it might be hard to start but i encourage you to do it anyway, once u do it you will realize how much motivation it gives you and how it actually makes you feel better.

    14. Write a journal and post in on DF. I'm doing it atm. I'll post it after i'm done.
     
  20. REDSOXFAN

    REDSOXFAN Newbie

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    Update

    36+ hours clean of kratom after a few really bad days

    Still having panic attacks here and there that are hard to control...anyone have ways to attack them quick to keep things moving as I need to be at my house Sunday and its Friday PM here

    Thanks