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Adderall & Opiate withdrawal

Discussion in 'Adderall' started by OhCasey, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. OhCasey

    OhCasey Palladium Member

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    Sorry if this has been already posted/Discussed (I searched with no luck) But swim was wondering If any body else takes Adderall and Opiates on a daily basis, and if they notice that the Adderall makes them take less Opiates or hides opiate withdrawal Symptoms really well. Swim takes 6-10 Norcos a day and has been taking 10 mg adderall XR daily. Swim has only taken 2-5 norcos a day since hes been on Adderall. Maybe its just Swim, just thought I'd ask.
     
  2. GForce

    GForce Gold Member

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    I can't testify to the extent of safely combining the two pharmaceuticals, but neurologically it would make sense that Adderall would curb opiate withdrawal. Opiate withdrawal obviously has many negative symptoms associated with it otherwise it wouldn't be an undesirable side-effect of taking less opiates. In addition, opiate tolerance is virtually limitless, causing users who take opiates regularly to have tolerances so high that their dose, while therapeutic to them, would kill someone who has no tolerance. Given that there is no limit to the extent of dependency, there is no limit to the extent of how horrible the withdrawal symptoms can be.

    That being said, the withdrawal symptoms, without getting too specific, include poor mood, lack of energy, lack of motivation, and dysphoria in general. I'm sure SWIY is well aware of this. Since Adderall's side effects include improved mood, euphoria, and energy, it isn't surprising that Adderall can offset the dysphoria from opiate withdrawal.
     
  3. OhCasey

    OhCasey Palladium Member

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    What about the phsyical pain?
     
  4. Songcycle67

    Songcycle67

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    SWIM sent me the following:

    Any physical pain will be worsened during opiate withdrawal. Some new pain will be created--mostly aches, stomach cramps, joints popping, legs made of jello.

    I can't find the actual study, but here is a link to the book about a study involving IV opiate addicts who were given amphetamines during *Acute Opiate Withdrawal* (that is, not Post-acute withdrawal, but actual cold turkey night sweats, fevers, etc.--full on morphine withdrawal) to curb physical and mental withdrawal, with the hypothesis and its results listed:

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/lddd/2008/00000005/00000004/011aj?crawler=true


    I'm not sure if it's saying that it had a positive effect or negative effect, but I would assume that since it does excite the same receptors, for most people speed during opiate withdrawal (definitely post-acute, maybe acute), it would in all probability induce a feeling of well-being, euphoria, energy, and (last but not least) potentially heavy amounts of diarrhea and the inability to stomach food. I don't know what conditions existed, I assume these people were heavy morphine users...doing a variety of amounts among vast samples of subjects. The doses of amphetamine used were most definitely low, especially to begin with. Maybe a quarter or less of the dose a particular subject would take for recreational use.

    This being an old beatnik (and I'm told it was used by many others) method of kicking heroin, I've always wondered if low-dose speed can actually curb or eliminate physical and/or mental withdrawal. I've read a great many subjective reports on this, I'm due to try about a 100mg-per-day/3 month oxycodone withdrawal cold turkey with amphetamine tomorrow, and the majority of these subjective experiences with amphetamines, when taken in therapeutic doses, with a sleep aid available (such as benzodiazepenes) for the comedown, a great majority of people that have tried this have said that it helped them a lot--mostly mentally, with some reporting physical help (most people are scared to death to try this out during physical withdrawal, because it *seems like it would be* so useless and even terrible, so there is very very little information about people trying it before the third or forth day of withdrawal, when most of the effects are mental)

    Most of these people were in post-acute withdrawal when this was done (after the sweating and miserable fevers and things) and it significantly reduced depression, loss of energy, loss of interest, boredom, physical discomfort etc.--obvious things. With this study, though, if it says what I think it's saying, and it would make sense: amphetamines can curb opiate withdrawals to the point of being useful physically--something that's rarely said for a drug outside the opiate/synth-opiate family.


    With all that said, there are a few key things in there that I want to highlight:

    The person should be well supplied with amphetamine (10 days worth to be safe), taken in very very low doses (don't chase the high)

    Comedown from the amphetamines should be expected to be absolute hell for at least the first 3-6 days (depending on substance)--coming down into cold turkey should be a horrible experience for that period of time, so it is imperative or highly suggested that one have some kind of sleep-aid so they don't go on amphetamine benders to stay high. Benzos, marijuana, melatonin (and other such natural aids), and even benadryl (don't get carried away) are all well known tricks to cut the edge or at least sleep for a few hours. Taking amphetamines, the subject's body (in tangent with the withdrawal) *will* probably be ready to sleep before the comedown hits fully--take advantage of that and try to stay asleep and off the amphetamine for as much of one's day as possible.



    It's interesting to note, as I've been typing this, I've read through hundreds of theories and guestimations as well as subjective experiences about amphetamine and opiate withdrawal and almost all the skepticism comes from people looking at it from the theoretical level, having never done it themselves.

    Either there are tons of opiate addicts on the forums i've been visiting who are afraid to speak up about what amphetamines do during withdrawal, or i'd have to conclude that nearly 100% of the people whose personal experiences with amphetamine during withdrawal helped them (for the most part with glowing results). On another forum there was a man in his first withdrawal, complete cold turkey for the first time off of OC's and Demerol asking the same question "does it help?"...he finally got tired of all the speculation and took a low dose of amphetamine. The withdrawal's edge left almost immediately, and he made it to his next doctor's appointment alive (albeit during a major amph crash--unfortunately he only had a little bit, this is why a good supply (and sleeping aids) is important--crashing from speed into opiate withdrawal would be unimaginable hell).



    So it is a hard line to walk, the treatment is very precise and every decision must be calculated; one needs to make sure they have a few things extra on hand, but if they're a together person and they have all the right tools, with what i've read, a small small dose can't hurt. Take one even a bit too large, though, and if it does give an adverse effect (some have speculated that it would increase withdrawal pangs tenfold, make the withdrawal time afterward harder, etc.) the subject is looking at a much tougher day than general opiate withdrawal would produce.

    I do not suggest that this be done at all, because I don't endorse drugs or sex or free love, but hypothetically (assuming the subject has everything they need should it go wrong--really benzos are a must) it could be very very worthwhile. Hypothetically speaking, again, it could also be hell--increasing the worst symptoms to an absolutely maddening degree.



    As for me, benzo's have never helped the withdrawal, i may catch an hour or two of rough sleep during the day--maybe 1-4 at night...but it doesn't reduce the fevers or chills or general dopamine withdrawal to any degree, and that's what really halts sleep.

    So I'm trying something new, one day of my life isn't much, and it would make sense, at least to a low level novice biochemist, that if your brain is freaking and going into sick mode because of a lack of pleasure hormones, even if they're not the exact same, as long as there is some kind of pleasure molecule doing something in a few of those slots (amphetamine in this case) it would seem to me that the brain would have nothing to cry about, aside from mentally missing that high and a slight feverish condition due to the brain needing certain parts of the pleasure hormone in opiates that it isn't getting from amphs.

    If it's true, the day will pass more quickly, i'll be able to get things done, won't feel useless and chaotic, etc. at the least. I really hope it helps with the sickness, though. I'm sure it won't help everything, but the majority, I hope. It also seems to me, from the research i've done, that most skepticism that gets done through theory uses reason that is actually incorrect, assuming that speed makes you a manic crazy rambling shithead. It's true if too much is done, but if threshold doses are taken (as with ADHD prescriptions) it actually calms the mind, eases the thought process, and gives you mental and emotional clarity. Everyone who's had ADHD, myself included, knows the age old question that gets asked of every one of us: how does speed help someone who is hyper? I don't know the real answer to that, all I can say is that the experience of amphs are much different than what one would expect: much more calming. And if it doesn't make sense to give a hyper kid speed, and that works, I'd say it has a good chance of working where it doesn't really make sense here.


    Summary:

    Possible Downsides: adverse effects (already mentioned), replacing one habit with another, the possibility of becoming tweaked out for days straight should the subject indulge in amphetamine and not use it therapeutically, increase in diarrhea, increase in sweating, increase in fever (rise in blood pressure), decrease in ability to think clearly/relax/sleep, etc.

    Possible Positives: Mental clarity, relief of mental withdrawal, possible relief of physical withdrawal, increased awareness, euphoria, increase in ability to perform constructive activities, decreased boredom, possibly significant decrease in physical discomfort, time passing faster than normal, generally restored functionality.



    If it does work get plenty of rest (no matter what!), *try* to eat something, drink lots of fluids (there's gonna be some diarrhea either way), vitamins and supplements are always handy, and be prepared for an absolute nightmare should it not work.

    I'll report back with my own subjective experience. Sorry this was so long, lot to cover.

    If anyone can help with figuring out the biochemistry involved here, I'd love to know any theoretical guesses.

    Also as important (if my trial succeeds at all) are repeated results in other SWIMmers, and reports of past experiences with this combo.


    Here's to a longshot, and a long day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
  5. Songcycle67

    Songcycle67

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    SWIM sent this:

    First day it seemed to help a lot--i had around 3-4 mg per dose/three times daily, but it is quite a struggle on that end: juggling the Xannax and Amphetamine has been the hardest part.

    I took my first dose when I woke up, in full on sweaty swamp freezer-burnt skin. With these small doses you really get more euphoria than speedy reactions, and that is definitely helping.

    The Diarrhea, funnily enough, hasn't happened at all.
    I have energy, my skin isn't crawling and sweating, an i'm ready for a good night's sleep after a long day of dosing speed.
    I was really surprised at how well this works with such a strong drug withdrawal.

    I'm still getting the odd cold chill and sweat, but it's basically like taking a few hydrocodone or something to level out after an Oxy binge.

    In my experience though, the shit doesn't hit the fan until the secon or third day, so we'll see how things fare then.

    Right now i'm in a very good mood, my brain is not a mess of thoughts, and the euphoria helps a lot.


    Maybe this widely disputed subject has something to it.
    I suppose I will see soon enough.
     
  6. sleepless in nowhere

    sleepless in nowhere Silver Member

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    My cat says it works. He says no more than 20mg of adderal per day. That's all a person in wd needs. If a person is in true wd and taking the adds, they will notice that they dont do much except knock the wd back. As you make you way out of the hole so to speak on day 3, 4, 5 etc, you'll notice that you need less. Sometimes only 5 mg. Wean it back and leave everything alone. Start exercising.
     
  7. Songcycle67

    Songcycle67

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    SWIM sent the following:

    It absolutely reduced all symptoms in my case. I experienced no flu-like symptoms, minor chills and hot flashes that were by no means uncomfortable. No depression, no mental anxiety.

    Took about 5mg every four-six hours. Great amount of euphoria, surprisingly.

    Benzos were required for the comedown as it was quite bad, and it did produce mild diarrhea and stomach discomfort which were treated with immodium and dicyclomine successfully.


    Surprisingly, sleep was also improved. Body was more comfortable, and I could even sleep on the speed itself with half a 1mg xanax.

    Hands down the easiest withdrawal I've ever had and it should have been hell.

    Gonna try a repeat again soon. I was going to wait to post the results for both at the same time, but I figured I'd go ahead since sleepless commented.



    I'd recommend it for anyone who has all the necessary supplies.
     
  8. adosz

    adosz Newbie

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    I'll put it this way: If you have a prescription (or are used to taking) dexedrine, adderall, ritalin etc. then the answer is that it WILL help. Opiate withdrawal is going to suck no matter what you do (aside from taking more opiates or suboxone (which is just another opiate). But, if you take amphetamine during your withdrawal, it will help with dysphoria and low energy. I'm going through this as we speak (day 3), and I can tell you, the only reason I'm even on the computer is because of dexedrine. It's no gravy train though.....
     
  9. beautifulbliss

    beautifulbliss Newbie

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    This information has been so helpful..... I'm on my 3rd day off opiates to mean it hasn't been so bad with the help of adderall. The only withdrawal signs i have had are upset stomach, cramping alot in the morning,mix emotions and mood swings,not alot of eating and feeling a lil overwhelmed at times. I know this is going to be rough journey but i faith in god to see me threw this. SN: I will be praying for everybody up and stay positive that's the only way we can make it!!!!
     
  10. badash237

    badash237 Silver Member

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    Swim knows this may be irrelevant, but they used to treat cocaine addiction with morphine and vice versa, so she does see the similarities in the substances you are using. My advice would be to taper, and remember that swiy's will power is the strongest tool to be used and it is possible. Good luck!
     
  11. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    I've found that stimulants (cocaine, amphetamine - but not caffeine!) can help a person feel better during opioids withdrawal. BUT, as stated above, one has to have a steady supply, because if the person comes down, it's a million times worse.

    Don't chase a stimulant high, have a decent supply, keep the dose low & yes, it will more likely than not lessen the opioid withdrawal symptoms.

    However, slamming a huge spike of cocaine while in withdrawal will only make one feel better for about 30 seconds, then they'll feel worse than before they started! ;)

    ~Kailey
     
  12. beautifulbliss

    beautifulbliss Newbie

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    This day 6 for being clean from opiates I was using adderall for my withdrawal to me it has helped. I still felt the withdrawal from not having opiate for so long. Q. Today I will be my second day without adderall are saying my withdrawal will start all over again? As of now I haven't felt any from the adderall just not that much energy.
     
  13. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    No, it doesn't start all over again. And esp since it's 6 days without opioids...you should be good, since the majority of the opioid withdrawal should be over anyway. :)

    Congrats on staying away for almost a week!!

    ~Kailey
     
  14. trdofbeingtrd

    trdofbeingtrd Palladium Member

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    Considering I cannot find the answer and used the search, what about nuvigil instead of adderall? Does anyone know if nugivil would help with withdrawals considering it is not an amphetamine? It has made the cravings for the pain medication go way down, but I have no clue about it helping with withdrawals. I don't think that will be happening any time soon because I have been able to take "as prescribed" for the most part, but I would like to know if someone can help me out so that I don't have to find out the hard way.

    Thank you.
     
  15. beautifulbliss

    beautifulbliss Newbie

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    Today is actually day 8 of being clean from pills...... I've been very emotionally and I'm just taking it on day at a time....I decided to take a 12 step program work them.... talk about my issues because keeping them all inside is going to be the cause of my relapse....im determined to stay clean and get my life back......

    Again thank you all for the support..... I will be praying for all of you.....

    God bless!
     
  16. Dickon

    Dickon

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    Fantastic news. Best of luck with staying clean. There is plenty of support in the recovery and addiction section of the forum should you need it. You might want to start a journal thread.

    All best wishes

    Dickon
     
  17. moderate_H_withdrawal

    moderate_H_withdrawal Newbie

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    I am on day three of withdrawing from moderate H use (two-three bags a week) and have had little symptoms at all. I did taper, but only one tiny dose (a heavy cotton pull) the day following the last bag. I am prescribed 20mg adderall tabs per day and have not been taking my pills as instructed for at least 3 months so I didn't have a tolerance at all. I did feel quite dysphoric on the day after the last bag but injected 30mg adderall and within minutes, I was feeling much better and interested in things I had no interest in before. Basically, it made me euphoric instead of dysphoric. I know I should have just taken the pills orally and people have said you need to get rid of all paraphanalia, but injecting the adderall seemed much more interesting to me and basically acted as a placebo effect as I am used to injecting the H... I have been taking motrin for aches (800mg) and 18mg immodium for diarreah so if you plan to use a similar withdrawal plan, these are ESSENTIAL!! I am surprised at the lack of symptoms I usually feel, and have had only minor back aches (eased by use of a spa) and minor chills, but not the intense waking up sweating type I'm used to. I am AMAZED at the lack of symptoms so far and am expecting to withdraw fully by the end of the week; which is good cuz I have a drug test coming up! This works, despite the lack of clinical evidence - I know that Freud used cocaine as a cure for morphine (laudinum) withdrawal, and H is basically morphine, well the main metabolite is anyways. Adderall or amphetamines (ritalin; dexidrine) WORKS for H or morphine withdrawal; I am Living Proof!!

    moderate_H_withdrawal added 11 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

    I neglected to mention that I also have been using 1mg Klonopin and 1mg Xanax for the jittering feeling I get from the adderall and/or withdrawal - I DO have a tolerance for these meds as I take them everyday. The most important effect of the Adderall is the euphoria to counteract the lack of energy and dysphoria - not for the physical symptoms which would be worse if I was a heavier user...

    I hope this infomation is helpful to other users seeking withdrawal; there is no reason for anybody to keep using; just get the proper drugs beforehand! Make sure you have some benzos to help sleep (alcohol has helped) and enough adderall (about 5mg twice a day) to get you through the first 3-5 days, as we all know are the worst.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  18. alienesseINspace

    alienesseINspace

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    My brother recently had kidney surgery and was taking opiate pain medication for over a month. He admitted to me that stopping the medication was hard. I looked up some information for him and that's when he tried kratom for the first time.

    He was able to stop taking other medication until recently when he got another kidney stone. Kratom wasn't strong enough to help the pain but it was just right to help him off the opitates. When he's through with this round of issues, I am assuming he will take kratom again and then eventually nothing at all.

    I used kratom to help with withdrawals from antidepressants and antipsychotics. I am 5'3 and about 170 lbs (yeah I'm on an effin' lifestyle change and trying to get fit) and I took about 3 grams of kratom/day when I first stopped taking the mental meds. It has been about 6 weeks and I am off kratom and the mental meds.

    So yeah, two positive experiences here fighting withdrawal symptoms with kratom. I am not sure I would want to treat addiction with a stimulant because I could see myself becoming addicted to the stimulant. I tend to like too much of a good thing :)

    Congrats on getting clean, man!
     
  19. moderate_H_withdrawal

    moderate_H_withdrawal Newbie

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    I've actually just tonight been reading about Kratom but it seems just too expensive. Know any bargain sites?? 3g's a day from the site I saw was like $150/day and that just doesn't fly. Any luck getting it anywhere but online? I KNOW it's a mu-opiate receptor agonist like morphine and buprenorphine is, so it's gotta work - now let's get the price to work, too! Please help - I had a minor relapse on Friday night (found some KILLER stuff) but haven't used in 48hours. It's just so tempting if you don't have alternative opiate agonists to help taper down.... :(
     
  20. nomadikone

    nomadikone Newbie

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    This is my first post by the way. I am writing to attest that 100% without a doubt Adderol /dexadrine either eliminates or completely masks the wds of opiates. My personal examples: I was on a n 8 year Oxy binge i could only get 60 mgs ops....at the height of my binge i was up too 480 mgs a day....i only swallowed or chewed them. My wife gets prescribed adderol for ADHD...but hardly uses her scripts. I finnaly came to rock bottom and i was always curious about these adderols due to the fact that they affect the brain( this isnt gonna be a very specific post lol ).. So i decided to give this a shot. I did my normal regimine (480mgs) went to bed woke up and immed took 30 mgs of adderol..now i was expecting a slight head change maybe a boost of energy but actually it was clarity and i wasnt scared of the on coming withdrawls. To my surprise they NEVER came!!

    This is what i did...i took that 30 mg the first morning and kept dosing that same 3o mg every 2 hrs . i didnt want to go to sleep oddly enough because i was afraid if i slowed down on these adderols i would go into bad with drawls...so i stayed up for 24 hrs. Now usually its the second day off of opiates thats the worst right>? Well there i was after getting about 6 hrs of sleep on the second day of no opiates with absolutly nothing i still felt the adderol in my sytem ...so i kept up this same regimine for 4 days!!

    I know what you might be thinking...but i promise u this was actually fun(also were the other problem lies)...to sum this up i kicked my 8 year habit in 7 days of using adderol. After the 5 day tweakathon i started to taper of the adderol...and then switched to wellbutrin. The issue i am having now was how easy this was... its dangerous. I catch myself thinking i could do it all over again cause it was fun! i dunno if everyone would have the same experience that i did . worked for me though.