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Combinations - Adderall potentiation with diphenhydramine

Discussion in 'Adderall' started by Trogdor, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. Trogdor

    Trogdor Newbie

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    I have very little understanding of the exact mechanism of how drugs are metabolised, but I have read that diphenhydramine can affect the hepatic enzyme CYP2D6 metabolism. since this is where adderall is metabolised would small amounts of diphenhydramine not work as a potentiater for adderall?

    I've done a search and only come up with a few mentions of it as an opiate potentiater. does that mean it would also potentiate adderall? and is this something that is safe to do?

    the purpose of this thread, aside from answering this question is hopefully to spark an interesting conversation between members about diphenhydramine as a potentiater and perhaps other drugs that may potentiate through the same mechanism of action.
     
  2. Dr. D

    Dr. D Newbie

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    SWIM has experience with diphenhydramine combined with adderall and hasn't found it to potentate at all. Only thing he's noticed was a significant decrease in the effect of diphenhydramine as a sleep aid, which is what he uses it for.
     
  3. mbarnes0

    mbarnes0 Silver Member

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    SWIM has never tried to use diphendydramine as an amphetamine potentiator. There are reports that it does act as a potentiator and reports that say it counteracts the amphetamine. Since diphendydramine is used as a sleep aid, SWIM tends to think that it would work in reverse but the chemical processes of the body never stop amazing me. There doesn't seem to be anything out there that convinces SWIM one way or the other.

    As far as potentiating amphetamine, SWIM has only found one thing that makes it better for him and that is sodium bicarbonate. On an empty stomach SWIM will take 4 oz. of water and mix 1/2 to 1 tsp. of sodium bicarbonate in the water. Drink this and then wait 30-45 minutes. After waiting take you dose. SWIM finds that he is hit faster and harder compared to just eating the dose on an empty stomach. Can't say it makes it last longer but this isn't an issue for SWIM because amphetamine already has quite a long half-life and he tends to stay up a long time when he is up.
     
  4. Dr. D

    Dr. D Newbie

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    Although amphetamines actually don't have a significantly long half-life compared to other drugs, SWIM commonly does stay up for an unusually long time.
    Oddly, SWIM experiances quite different effects from sodium bicarbonate. He feels only a slight increase in how hard it hits, but can really tell how much longer the effects last.
    SWIM was also under the impression that extended use of sodium bicarbonate can be hazardous, but he has not evidence to back up his assumption.
     
  5. RX420

    RX420 Banned

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    from what swim heard...it actually decreases the addies
     
  6. That_person

    That_person Newbie

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    Ranitidine (Zantac), works very well for swim way better than sodium bicarbonate. Although for swim it makes them last for WAY to long to the point when swim comes down hes in a stupor, delirious, and hallucinating like crazy.

    Quick question.
    Does adderall make any other swimmers hallucinate, I'm talking about a object shaking in the corner of your eye to walls changing colors and shapes??
     
  7. RX420

    RX420 Banned

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    yea swim uses zantac and tums together. Caffeine also potentates ime.

    and swim has had very mild visuals , but only if hes binged for a few days.
     
  8. mbarnes0

    mbarnes0 Silver Member

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    SWIM is going to try using Zantac the next time it and amphetamine are available.

    Also found this list of different drug interactions with amphetamine:
    Note that this list includes potentiators and things that diminish effects.

    Acidifying agents
    -Gastrointestinal acidifying agents (guanethidine, reserpine, glutamic acid HCl, ascorbic acid, fruit juices, etc.) lower absorption of amphetamines.

    Urinary acidifying agent
    -(ammonium chloride, sodium acid phosphate, etc.) increase the concentration of the ionized species of the amphetamine molecule, thereby increasing urinary excretion. Both groups of agents lower blood levels and efficacy of amphetamines.

    Adrenergic blocker
    -Adrenergic blockers are inhibited by amphetamines.

    Alkalinizing agents
    -Gastrointestinal alkalinizing agents (sodium bicarbonate, etc.) increase absorption of amphetamines. Co-administration of ADDERALL® and gastrointestinal alkalizing agents, such as antacids, should be avoided. Urinary alkalinizing agents (acetazolamide, some thiazides) increase the concentration of the non-ionized species of the amphetamine molecule, thereby decreasing urinary excretion. Both groups of agents increase blood levels and therefore potentiate the actions of amphetamines.

    Antidepressants, tricyclic
    -Amphetamines may enhance the activity of tricyclic or sympathomimetic agents; d-amphetamine with desipramine or protriptyline and possibly other tricyclics cause striking and sustained increases in the concentration of d-amphetamine in the brain; cardiovascular effects can be potentiated.

    MAO inhibitors
    -MAOI antidepressants, as well as a metabolite of furazolidone, slow amphetamine metabolism. This slowing potentiates amphetamines, increasing their effect on the release of norepinephrine and other monoamines from adrenergic nerve endings; this can cause headaches and other signs of hypertensive crisis. A variety of neurological toxic effects and malignant hyperpyrexia can occur, sometimes with fatal results.

    Antihistamines
    -Amphetamines may counteract the sedative effect of antihistamines.

    Antihypertensives
    -Amphetamines may antagonize the hypotensive effects of antihypertensives.

    Chlorpromazine
    -Chlorpromazine blocks dopamine and norepinephrine receptors, thus inhibiting the central stimulant effects of amphetamines, and can be used to treat amphetamine poisoning.

    Ethosuximide
    -Amphetamines may delay intestinal absorption of ethosuximide.

    Haloperidol
    -Haloperidol blocks dopamine receptors, thus inhibiting the central stimulant effects of amphetamines.

    Lithium carbonate
    -The anorectic and stimulatory effects of amphetamines may be inhibited by lithium carbonate.

    Meperidine
    -Amphetamines potentiate the analgesic effect of meperidine.

    Methenamine therapy
    -Urinary excretion of amphetamines is increased, and efficacy is reduced, by acidifying agents used in methenamine therapy.

    Norepinephrine
    -Amphetamines enhance the adrenergic effect of norepinephrine.

    Phenobarbital
    -Amphetamines may delay intestinal absorption of phenobarbital; co-administration of phenobarbital may produce a synergistic anticonvulsant action.

    Phenytoin
    -Amphetamines may delay intestinal absorption of phenytoin; co-administration of phenytoin may produce a synergistic anticonvulsant action.

    Propoxyphene
    -In cases of propoxyphene overdosage, amphetamine CNS stimulation is potentiated and fatal convulsions can occur.

    Veratrum alkaloids
    -Amphetamines inhibit the hypotensive effect of veratrum alkaloids.


    This is from professional PDR located at http://www.rxlist.com/adderall-drug.htm

    Now this doesn't really go into the pharmacology of why the different substances potentiate or reduce the effectiveness of amphetamine but it lists a lot of different interactions that could happen.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  9. Icelos

    Icelos Silver Member

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    Is Zantac more effective than times/baking soda? Does it work using the same mechanism, or a different one?
     
  10. h3artshapedb0x

    h3artshapedb0x Silver Member

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    Swim always knew diphenhydramine was a great potentiator for heroin but have never tryed it along side addreral Swim has some adderall maybe if Swim can find some bennydryl Swim will have this experience today ill post back later on my experience

    h3artshapedb0x added 62 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

    SWIM has just injested 6-25 mg diphenhydramine capsules and 1 30 mg adderal
    Question: does diphenhydramine potentiate adderal
    Hypothesis:Swim believes that the adderal will cancel out the sedative effects or diphenhydramine but potentiate the dissacotiative properties of the drug and reduce sideeffects
    more coming soon

    h3artshapedb0x added 48 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

    At about 20 mins after injestion relaxed tired feeling (note after not sleeping for 14 hours and 2 .5mg clonozapam ingested about 12 hours ago) one more diphenhydramine capsule injested along with coffe and a joint was smoked

    9:46 one more 30 mg adderall oral followed by 2 more diphenhydramine pills

    h3artshapedb0x added 1262 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

    Well Swim says they didnt quite potentiate the adderall as in made it stronger but took away all the side effects of adderall but not quite the diphenhydramine side effects cant say it was a bad experience but definately not a bad one either especially when Swim had to go to the secretary of state very sedative effects but with no desire to sleep Swim was relaxed and full of energy at the same time still got the bennydryl "shocks" as Swim likes to call them when u kinda feel like u got hit by lightning and ur getting sucked into the ground Swim did this twitch drop scream thing in front of the clerk at the sec of state and then she asked Swim some questions and he couldnt say anything back O Swim was doing that all day Swim couldnt remember shit he kept walking into rooms and forget what he was doing so hed just kinda wonder around pretty pyschedellic not bad not great either its been years since Swim has done bennydryl he vowed never to touch it again but when he saw this post he thought it sounded fun and Swim when he used to take diphenhydramine all the time he used to pop no less the 24 at a time usually 30 + so the effects off of about 10 was amazing like Swim said took away all the side effects of adderal and accually potentiated the diphenhydramine took away some of the side effects making it not that bad insted of a screaming nightmare straight outta hell 4/10

    h3artshapedb0x added 1 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

    Swim is still slightly hallucinating
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  11. Razorblade

    Razorblade

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    Anything that reduces stomach acid will increase the effects of Amphetamine, Sodium Bicarbonate has the best reputation, however, anything with similar action will do the same. The only thing this does is slows the breakdown of the drug so the body has a chance to fully absorb it. Amphetamines have to be metabolized to work.

    And...the hallucinations are completely normal, and experienced by others.;)
     
  12. Toxic Moon

    Toxic Moon Silver Member

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    This is an old post, but swim didn't want to get in trouble for starting a new thread about something already discussed.

    Swim just spent the past 85ish hours awake (she was awake from 6pm Saturday to 10:30am Tuesday), and at 7am Sunday morning, started taking 30mgXR and 10mgIR Adderall. She honestly isn't too sure how much she actually took, but she vaguely remembers certain doses as she was doing something else at the time that she factored into the memory. Her last dose was of 10mgIR at around midnight on Monday. At 10:30am Tuesday, swim finally let herself pass out after attempting (and failing) to post a sensical reply to someone on a really cool forum about drugs.

    Swim fell asleep until 3pm when she was woken up by the phone. Swim's left eye had been bothering her since Monday afternoon, and realized when she woke up at 3, that she had developed pink eye. Swim was also itchy in places, and has been suffering off and on with an unknown allergy for about a month now. Swim thought that maybe to get rid of the itch and the gunk from her eye until she could see her doctor, she would take an OTC store brand allergy pill. She found some of the package outside of the box, and double checked the back of the packets to make sure it was the same thing, and took one out and had it. She was not overly tired when she woke up at 3 (getting 4.5hrs sleep after being awake for over 80), just sore and her neck was killing her.

    Swim then went with her mom and friend to her friend's doctor appointment, and she was able to get seen too while there for the pink eye. Somewhere between the doctor's office and the pizza place they went to afterwards to eat, swim became very aware that everything around her felt out of sorts. Her perception had changed, making her feel much larger than she actually was, or rather, making everything around her much, much smaller than they actually were.

    She noticed that she felt a little "out of body", and that her body seemed to be moving of it's own accord, even though she never felt out of control. This was 6-7 hours ago that she experienced this odd feeling, and still now feels a little dissociated with her body and her surroundings.

    Swim wonders if the potentiation between the adderall (which I assume was still in her system some, considering the amount she ingested) and the diphenhydramine caused the weird wooshy, out of touch feeling she has had all evening. Besides the "weird" feelings and her neck/upper back ache, and being drowsy, she hasn't had any extreme problems coming down off her first ever Adderall binge. Swim is going to start a new thread or two about things that happened to her while she was on the binge though....
     
  13. Dr. D

    Dr. D Newbie

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    SWIM believes that lack of sleep decreases the immune system, which may explain why SWIY got sick. Also, SWIM has got the same out of body experiences as SWIY described whenever his binge lasts for about 48 hours or more.
     
  14. Toxic Moon

    Toxic Moon Silver Member

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    So, swiy thinks that the out of body weirdness was more down to the length of swim's binge, and not necessarily due to the fact that she took the allergy tablet while she still had the amphetamine in her system?

    Swim admits a bit of ignorance when it comes to this word 'potentate', and is unsure about how the diphenhydramine would have to be taken in order to successfully potentate the amphetamine, but swim had seen mention a few days back of this OTC drug 'potentating' amphetamine...wow, run-on sentence!

    Swim has been sick a lot this past year, which she does attribute a lot to the fact that swim has had an excessively stressful year, combined with depression creeping up on her again. Her insomnia and depression just screwed her sleep schedule up so badly, and swim is quite positive she agrees with swiDr. D on the lack of sleep causing swim's immune system to be practically non-existent.

    Since swim moved from England to her mom's house in New Mexico last March, swim also has developed a bunch of allergies she never had before...swim thanks swiDr. D for their response!
     
  15. Dr. D

    Dr. D Newbie

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    SWIM also isn't too knowledgeable about diphenhydramine used to potentate amphetamine, but he does have a history with the drug. A few years ago, SWIM had insomnia which he cured with diphenhydramine (Unisom - 50mg). He vividly remembers one instance where he just couldn't fall asleep, so he ended up taking somewhere around 550mg (not recommended). As SWIM was falling asleep, he had audible hallucinations (people talking, traffic, etc.) and three strong visual hallucinations. One was a translucent head of a girl laughing, another was of a man sitting on SWIM's couch, and the last one (and coolest of all) was a bunch of enormous spiders climbing all over the walls and ceiling. SWIM was able to stay calm and really enjoy the illusions for the short time before he fell asleep. The next day, SWIM was extremely drowsy and couldn't concentrate at school, so he hasn't tried it again.