Addicted to opiates and valium

Discussion in 'Opiate & Opioid addiction' started by oggy, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Swim's Been on the valium for 6 months daily at 100mgs a day and minimum 300mg's DHC a day just to feel normal. Seen the Doctor on the 27th about it gave him a urine sample to prove swim's taking these drugs and he said he would need to talk to a drugs specialist before he can proscribe me anything its now the 7th going back on the 9th Swim just hopes he helps him and doesn't knock him back.
    I don't like my drug dealer and dont want to see him again but if the doc doesn't give Swim anything Swim will have to go back to him. Swim's running out of drugs to feel he needs them like my body needs them. Its painfull when he trys not to take any DHC 300-450mg's just keeps me normal with 100mg's of valium. I was taking up to 1200-1500mg's of DHC a day and 200mg valium also oxys and morphine pills.

    Swim really wants off all of these drugs now he just let it get out of controll. In the UK what sort of help is expected? I don't have much left and if the Doctor doesn't help he'll just go back to that scum bag dealer witch he really doesn't want to have to do that.

    What do you's think will happen?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2006
  2. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Just so you know DHC is Dihydrocodeine. Its twice as strong as codeine and you can heat it up unlike codeine where codeine would be destroyed under heat. He has found 300mg's of DHC to be as strong as 60mg's of morphine but lasts a lot less longer. Swim used to take 3 60mg pills of morphine a night and he'd be smacked out for days. DHC is shorter acting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  3. BlackCook

    BlackCook Newbie

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    If the doc will not help you, you have to help yourself.
    Go back to the scum dealer and get enough of all stuff you NEED to take (no stuff for fun!).

    The problem is, that you have two problems...

    Addiction on opiates is bad, bad addiction on valium is worse.

    You need to get rid of the valiums first...

    First thing: Stay with your DHC dose! But first try to take the valiums not in the morning, means you have to try to take them at the evening/night.
    When you have made this, then you have to get rid of them, little by little.
    From 100mg to 90mg and so on... You can go down 10mg every 2 days, some people have no problem to go down 10mg every day...
    But the main thing is that you do not take them in the morning or middle of the day...
    I have a lot of expierience with everything and with this too and so you can trust me that i know what i am speaking of.

    After you managed to get rid of the valiums, go down with you DHC dosage. Make little steps, even if you think they are tiny...
    But its better to make tiny steps konsequently than making one big step and then getting turkey have to take more again!
     
  4. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Thank you BlackCook. Will try this if the doc doesn't help.
     
  5. Jatelka

    Jatelka Psychedelic Shepherdess Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I would strongly recommend dealing with the opiates first.

    She would also state that if your valium dose is at 100mg per day then you need to be weaning down far more gradually than BlackCook suggests. She knows that you're aware of xxx oggy (you've posted links to it before) have you looked at the suggested benzo tapers there? Yes they're slow, but they're designed to be manageable. She knows many people who have been successful this way.

    Stopping opiates cold turkey is horrible, but won't kill you. A poorly managed benzo withdrawal could well do.

    Best wishes
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  6. BlackCook

    BlackCook Newbie

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    Just telling experiences...
    If he tries to get rid of the opiates first, then the desire to take more of valium is to (!) high.

    So the other way is the better one...

    And, last but not least: You will never ever end in a coma because of codein-withdrawal, but you can definitively get in a coma because of a horrible valium withdrawal.

    Had a friend who was intoxicated that high (took about 100x10mg valium/Rohypnol/Tetrazepam etc a day and was set to zero by jail then)
     
  7. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    I dont have much experience with addiction but ive experienced benzodiazepene withdrawel from diazepam which is the same as valium (if i understand right.) It was the most horrible thing i've experienced in my entire life EVER. I really would not reccomend it.

    If it were me i'd try to go cold turkey on the Opiates even if it caused my benzo intake to increase at first and once that was done i would decrease the benzo intake.

    Hope it helped
     
  8. Micklemouse

    Micklemouse Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Which is all very well, but doesn't answer the poor lads question!

    Firstly Oggy - glad yer still here, and hope you see this before your appointment. You've already crossed one of the first major hurdles in getting clean & back on track - recognising there's a problem, and wanting to sort it out. Two, in fact. Two hurdles already.

    Now, stage 3 - the doctor. Given your stated intake, your urine sample should come back positive for benzo's & opiates, for which I'm guessing swiO doesn't have a prescription. From this s/he should then say to themselves 'Here's someone with a problem who wants to sort themselves out!', and make a referral to your friendly local Addictions Unit (NHS) who'll work out a tapering regime with you covering both the benzo's and opiates - which way round they tackle it I don't know - as well as offering counselling. South of the Border this is usually CBT (Cognitive Behaviour Therapy), which will help you break down your relationship to your substances af misuse and become aware of the thought processes, triggers and patterns of behaviour associated with your addiction. Hard work, but worth it and strongly recommended - I've known a good few people who've used this method successfully, and dig out the work books whenever they feel themselves slipping. It won't necessarily be delving into any major issues, but rather looking, at first anyway, into dealing with what's going on here & now. Whether yo're prescribed anything to tide you over until the referral is in place is up to the individual doctor, but considering that they've already spoken to a specialist about you, I'd say the chances are good, even if it's at a reduced dose to the one you told them about. I'd also hope that your doctor will ask you to come in to see them at least once a week at least until your referral is in place. The Addiction Unit will almost certainly be drop-in rather than a residential detox, so there will be a huge responsibility on you to get to appointments and stick with the plan, but if you genuinely want to sort this out - and it sounds like you do - they'll welcome you with open arms.

    Another bit of advice - let the peole around you that you love and trust know what's going on. Right now you'll need as much support from friends and family as you can get. Some of 'em may freak a little, but if they are truly your friends they'll get over it.

    Best of luck Oggy - it's a hard path you've just put yer foot on, but worth every little stubbed toe and stumble at the end of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2007
  9. BlackCook

    BlackCook Newbie

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    Thats right.
    Its a little bit sad sometimes, but in this times you will see who is a real friend and who is not.
    Good luck!
     
  10. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Thanks guys:) His friends and family know about it and are being very nice and want to see him get better even the ones he has hurt when being very high and drunk and done stuped things. He really wants out of this mess he's not even liking taking these things now but when the DHC starts to ware off he feels terrible so he has to take more just to feel normal its something he never thought would happen to him but as he was made redundant he had nothing better to do and now its a big problem.

    Micklemouse thanks so much for what you said and the info you gave me. The urine sample came back positive but the Doctor says he needs advice from a drug addiction specialist, he will call him on friday once he knows what to do. He said its a 3 month waiting list to get into any NHS drug addiction units. So he really doesn't know what he will to do till then, what he wants is never to go back to that dealer again but if they can't supply him with anything he will have to go give him his money and he just sells his dads his own and his son's proscriptions to swim when he gets them off the NHS for free and sells them to swim for silly money.

    Swim hopes they will proscribe him the drugs he needs tomorrow he told me he's starting to feel shit already and he's had his 300mg's DHC today but he doesn't want to go over that, some days he feels he needs 450mg's and thats just to feel normal. Swim hopes they have some sort of slow release opiet. He just doesn't know what he's expecting tomorrow he hopes he says yes come in and I'll do you a script but he might not be able to do that before swim sees the NHS specialist.

    Thanks for all of your help, Swim will update tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  11. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Whats the equil dose of oxycotine to DHC? Swim can get these in slow release at 20mg's do you think 2 a day would be enough to stop withdraw maybe 1?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  12. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Swim posted a big reply but it never came up and he can't be bothered to wright it again:(

    Thats because your posts require approval before they hit the board, woosh your posts appear......it's one of the perks when you become a mercury member- sitbcknchill
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  13. Micklemouse

    Micklemouse Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Hang in there Oggy! 3 months for residential detox on the NHS sounds about right - it's a sorry state, but that's what it's like across the country. There are thousands of people in the same boat as yerself who are forced to break the law and live with an addiction they don't want, meaning they have to mix with people they don't want to mix with, in order to vaguely function. All is not lost though! Did you click on the link I posted? If not, please do, and find the link for Turning Point (towards the bottom of the third page). These guys are top, and offer both residential and drop-in support; again, funding might be an issue for the residential side, but it's worth looking at, & may be worth dropping into conversation with your doctor today - if nothing else, it'll show that you're serious about getting clean and have been looking at other options (doctors like this sort of thing, especially when dealing with addiction - otherwise they might just think our after a script to sell to your mates!). Phoenix House is another interesting looking possibility to throw at your doc.

    I'm glad to see that you have the support of the people you care about. You're a lucky man in this respect, and this could make the difference between success & failure in this stage of your life. Keep talkng to them, and arrrange to do some nice things with them - days in the country, dinner parties, trips to the gym, marathon backgammon sessions, anything to keep you occupied and your mind off what's going on, and yourself away from the people that could bring you down.

    Again, good luck and keep us posted!
     
  14. deji

    deji Silver Member

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    There are long acting opiods, like subs and methadone.

    You have one really good thing going for you. Only 6 months and not 6 years or 16 years.

    Whatever plan you come up with, make sure you stick with it. It doesnt get easier, thats for sure.
     
  15. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Cheers guys, At this point the Doctor told swim that he has to keep buying the drugs himself witch I think is no so good as he's dealing with people that dont give a shit about swim and might even offer me something worse. Swim's dealer sold me 1000ml of methadone then took half of it back of swim saying the cops needed it and giving swim a load of shite. He even had the cheek to ask swim to say swim stole the methadone and tell the cops it was swim. Swim just walked out on him and he was like no dont go I was just messin with you (yeah right). Well I was left with 500ml of methadone and was taking it daily and was in some bad ways even swim's friends called swims dad up saying I wasn't breathing and when he came down swim just told him to F off witch swim really feels bad about now but in that state you dont care about anyone else. One of swim's good friends got a taxi at night near xmas time so it was double rate £40 it cost him just to help swim flush the methadone away, good friend.

    So swim really wanted to stay away from him but he's swim's only suplyer for DHC. Looks like swim's stuck with him for 3 months:(

    Thanks again Micklemouse I will look into the Turning Point for swim. Even you guys are giving swim good support:)

    Will keep yous all updated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
  16. deji

    deji Silver Member

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    If you are eliminating the benzo first, go on subs. That way, you have a steady supply and regular dose of opiods.

    And only for 3 months, you will be fine. Takes a while for it to really get into you.

    Having to deal with some unreliable dealer is just going to send you up and down and make this really hard. Harder than it should be for sure.
     
  17. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Deji what are subs?
     
  18. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    I have no suply of opiets so he went into his local herb shop and bought some kratom it seems to be helping a bit but is a bit expensive. Tryed 2 grams of the super extract powder kratom tonight witch is ment to be the strongest and has 6 grams of grade 1 kratom witch the guy in the shop said it was the most liked. Swim will try that tommorrow.
     
  19. deji

    deji Silver Member

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    Suboxone. Better than methadone, especially for you.

    You get it from the doctor out here, unlike methadone, where you go to a clinic based on a punishment system. Not sure how it works in scotland. Ask your doctor. Not sure why he didnt offer it actually.
     
  20. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Doctors are not going to help so I am going cold turky on valium and DHC then they can deal with swim's when he has a seizure. I have a mortgage and cant pay for drugs anymore as he was made redundant and the house is more important than anything else. Wish me luck guys.