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    PLEASE HELP

ADHD=bullshit condition?

Discussion in 'Amphetamine' started by hh339, May 8, 2006.

  1. hh339

    hh339 Gold Member

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    here is the chance for people who consider ADHD/ADD/DAMP a "bullshit condition" to speak up. there are many many other "conditions" as well that make life hard on a lot of people. the reasons for this post are the negative condecending minds swim and others have encountered through the years, even on this forum.

    I has done A LOT of amphetamines of different kinds, and thought it would be "cool" to get some legally. I started studying up on ADD/ADHD/DAMP, and thought he knew it all. well he did, the only thing he didnt realize was that he actually had ADHD himself. it has only been a few weeks since he got the diagnosis for real, and I finally understands why he liked amphetamines. at first it was kind of a shock for swim, who had always wondered why he felt so different to say the least. well there it was, the answer he had searched for for so long. no wonder he could eat, sleep and so on when he was on it. calling it a bullshit condition makes me teary eyed, he has felt so down and confused for so long. peoples ignorance and "know-it-all"-attitudes has made life hard for him in the past. I has hurt a lot of people through the years, without even knowing it. thats not a funny thing to carry around. everyone is different, but I has found himself because of medicine and theraphy. why the fuck would anyone say I am just a junkie trying to score stimulants? envy, ignorance, prejudice? I has no idea, but he knows one thing: a lot of people labeled by society are really in need of help, no matter what their conditions are. they should be taken seriosly. of course I feel high in a sense, when you have not enjoyed life for as long as you can remember and suddenly you actually do, it beats every drug in the world. OK, I am on a drug, but without the theraphy and support from others it would not have been nearly as helpful. there COULD be a reason for people wanting a specific drug, and their voices should never go unheard. I am on concerta now which is not an amphetamine but have quite similar effects in ADHD-treatment, and if theres anyone who think swim and all other people with the condition is bullshitting, please speak your mind. I feel for the people out there in need of help and support, people who has been broken so many times that they give up. I has not really been that far down, but others are and have been.

    all thoughts are welcome.
     
  2. Beeker

    Beeker Iridium Member

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    ADD and ADHD are real as I've lived with it for life. ADD seems linked to dyslexia.

    ADD could be defined also as someone who is bored which these compounds work on as well.

    Time released Ritalin is a joke for real ADD. Before getting moved to amphetamine salts I was prescribed 3 20mg generic pills a day. Now that I'm back on genetic amps I take one pill for 5 hours..

    I get no rush, I tried abusing ritalin and got shaky and cruddy.. no fun. I've taken some Dex pills from a friend once and THAT was real deal ephoria.

    I'll stick to the 4 salt combos and life enhancement. No need for support. I am well grounded in who he is and has to be to do research.
     
  3. General Tso

    General Tso Newbie

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    of course its bullshit. :eek: :D just kidding.

    i know how you feel right now because i felt that way, but trust me you will still get burnt out on the speed. you didn't miss out on your life.

    amphetamines help everyone concentrate. its just that they help different people to different degrees. My doc said that just becuase adhd meds help you concentrate doesn't mean that you "have" adhd. you're still just getting high off speed. come on. dont lie to yourself!;)

    just my opinion. no flames necesary.
     
  4. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    swim's opinion is that add/adhd is a real medical condition, but one that is grossly overdiagnosed by a medical community eager to have "high success rates" (read: high prescription rates) with their subjects. since amphetamines can help anyone concentrate, regardless of if they have add or not, these drugs will work on any restless/overly creative/high spirited kid. basically its an easy way out for doctors and parents who dont want to take the time to pursue alternate options for kids being unable to focus. kids are bound to not want to focus in school to begin with, its only natural that they tend to channel their energy towards activities they find more enjoyable. plus with today's society being so focused on rapid-fire entertainment and instant gratification, is it any wonder that children might have shorter attention spans that are LEARNED behaviors instead of innate "disorders" that require medication to "fix"? swims opinion is that only a small fraction of children diagnosed with add actually have a real disorder where they cannot concentrate without the aid of drugs...the rest of these kids are being overmedicated and marginalized simply for acting their age. its pitiful and unfortunate and sickening, all at once. while I do enjoy the occasional amphetamine, he does so with full knowledge of their effects and consequences, but doubts that most of these young children being forcefed pills do...and who's to say what the long-term consequences of giving children powerful drugs on a daily basis will do to their development? it could be leading our country to produce a bunch of drug dependent, submissive personalities willing to believe whatever so-called 'authorities' are going to tell them. the whole situation disgusts swim, he apologizes for the long tirade, and understands if others have a viewpoint on this different from him.
     
  5. hh339

    hh339 Gold Member

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    thanx for the replies people. I agree that medications are way over-prescribed and are too much of an easy way out for doctors. this is a very debated issue in sweden as well as in the U.S if swims not mistaken. here in sweden they have just started to medicate prisoners with concerta in some jails. it doesnt take a genious to figure out that every inmate will soon start to claim they have the condition(lol), but it would be no surprise if a good majority of them really have it. I has found that many of the negative thought he has had, which in turn made I take it out on others in sometimes VERY cruel ways, were caused by mes inability fo feel guilt, pity and so on. thats what swim meant with "missing out on life". well life is catching up with swim for real, not to mention all the guilt he feels now. its all kind of good though, I would not have it any other way.
     
  6. StigmataLectron

    StigmataLectron Newbie

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    For a while I've thought that many "disorders" are just personality types that The Man wants to see as derrogatory. My ex girlfriend was once "Skyzotypal"(sp), but for a while I considered it to be just a different way of looking at the world that the doctors didn't want you to have. Of course, there ARE mental illnesses. And of course, many people with said mental "illnesses" really, really don't want to have them.

    I don't think that a person's view on the world or personality type should be considered a disorder if it's not normal (ie, skyzotypal or ADHD), unless the person who has it really sees it as a problem they have to deal with (Radeon). I, myself, was diagnosed with ADHD years ago, but never thought of it as making me a strange or out of the ordinary person - just a little different, and at the time I decided that if that's how my brain is build, that's how I'm going to use it. And then I found drugs.*

    *Editors note: "drugs" refers to purely legal substances.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2006
  7. Benga

    Benga Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Hum I would temper that with unless the person's behavioural patterns clash with the accepted limits of social conduct. Of course these limits are overtly or not defined by the society itself, hence the difficulty in defining what mental disorders are, and the sublteties of ethnopsychiatry.

    But by what you just wrote, I get a feeling, to take crude examples, that if an individual felt destructive behaviour, say the urge to kill or sexually force himself upon young children and didn't really see it as a problem, it shouldn't be seen as a disorder.
    This "seeing it as a problem" is also very hard to define, because many mental conditions imply burying things in a dellusional manner, hence you wouldn't be "seeing it as a problem" because you wouldn't really be aware of the acts you have done...

    as for attention and hyperactivity disorders, I have no opinion.
    I was trying to find out if people were prescribed Ritalin or amphetamines for such conditions in France since they have in theory been removed from prescribeable medicine some 10 years ago. Found out there were about 3000 children on Ritalin in the country, on a population of 60 million, but I don't really know how the prescription is possible. Adderall and dexedrine are most definetly illegal in France, so I was wondering what people with such disorders did, drink ?
    b
     
  8. StigmataLectron

    StigmataLectron Newbie

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    Of course, what's "good" and "bad" is also a matter of accepted social conduct. If you ask a random person if raping a child unwillingly is bad, chances are they'd say yes. But if you ask a child molester, they could differ, saying something like "Yes, but that's what makes it fun", or "No, he was asking for it". 'Course, everyone in the right mind is going to take the average person's side.

    The part where I'd normally draw the line is when one consenting individual isn't consenting. When one has the ability to think about the concequences of saying "Yes", then they're cool. Children can't exactly be trusted with this choice, but to pedophilles, that just adds to the fun. <img>

    All kidding aside, the line stands where the rights of others are infringed.

    Then again, there's necrophillia. One could say that raping a dead body isn't harming anybody, but for reasons I can't really explain it just raises an alarm in my head.

    But what's the consesus on killing people for revenge? Does it depend on what they did to deserve it? Does it make someone crazy to want to do this since it's against social norms to kill, even if they had a good reason?
     
  9. hh339

    hh339 Gold Member

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    the line between ADHD/ADD/DAMP and other types of mental illness can be very hard to distinguish, because the symptoms can sometimes be very similiar. enjoying cruel behaviour tells of something more than ADHD, though different conditions can be combined as well. when impulsive behaviour creates problems for the individual, treatment and medication should be considered.
     
  10. RealGanjaMan

    RealGanjaMan Gold Member

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    ADD is the reason I dropped out of high-school. Its also the reason I can watch a movie, understand the whole thing, love it, and not be able to tell you what happened 5 minutes after I saw it. So no, ADD isn't a bullshit condition.
     
  11. fgtss

    fgtss Newbie

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    It's certainly not bullshit. I have ADHD, and it's hurt me when it comes to my studies, a lot.
     
  12. mspen1018

    mspen1018 Newbie

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    I was dx'd adhd and whether it was spending between age 4 and age 13 on dexedrine or actual ADHD I definitely use the drug as prescribed and have no problem with not taking it
     
  13. Bajeda

    Bajeda Super Moderator Platinum Member & Advisor Supporter

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    I made some posts concerning this in another thread by Fantasian I believe. Check it here, has some interesting stuff ----> https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=178472


    My thoughts on the matter....

     
  14. oz man

    oz man Newbie

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    Wow there are people out there who have gone through hell and back.I was the same .I always was stressing over this and that and wondered why nobody cared.I have seen too many doctors over the years saying I have slight depression to manic depression to anxiety disorders and panic attacks.My whole life has been screwed right up.I wondered why I kep't loosing good jobs I liked and I always blammed the boss etc.I have hurt so many people with years of drug abuse and general abuse as well.I honestky hated life and use to say to people there is no hell when you die because we live in hell.A doctor finally listened to what I was saying and agreed to try me on Dexamphetamine since he beleived I was miss diagnosed for my entire life.God It's a waste of a life being 35 and only finding the golden answer approx 5 weeks ago.My life has changed.I'm slower, sleep better and things are so different.Its like I'm high.For the first week I was in a daze and felt the best ever.Support and people understanding have to go along with the medication.This is because everything is so different and things have to be sort of learnt again.I just hope it's my chance in life to make it at something.I feel for all the others out there mis diagnosed.The whole mediacal system sucks and most doctors don't have a clue.I hope they wake up and stop people suffering like a had for 35 years.
     
  15. AntiAimer

    AntiAimer Newbie

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    Smurf is sure he has it, was told by idiots he has it. But refuses to go to the doctor for it. Teachers always nagged him, since nothing in school EVER intrested him other then girls and the bell ringing. Always being hyper(since kids are hyper) and talking to others instead of doing the work,thought process races...etc.

    In Smurfs eyes, BS or not, no kid should be given SPEED! untill there mentally able to know what's going on. So giveing your child drugs at the age of 5, is leading them on the wrong path and is child abuse in Smurfs eyes. Saw it happen to many times in middle school and HS.

    Smurf has tryed ritalin, makes him depressed. Want's to try adderall but hasn't. Pretty much something that's supposed to be a upper, isn't for Smurf. But even knowing\thinking Smurf has it, comes to believe it's pretty much BS. He thinks it's all in the person\mind....which one can overcome without drugs.

    Also someone said they watch a movie and can't remember it 5 minutes later....what does that have to do with add\adhd? Smurf always thought that was just haveing crappy memory. Smurf has beaten plenty of video games, not remembering the endings nor most the game. Also watching movies or reading parts of books not remembering what he just saw\read. One reason school was HELL! for Smurf. They assume every person is the same with great brains, memory and skills.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2007
  16. GForce

    GForce Gold Member

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    Bajeda, you're forgetting something very important in your analysis of ADHD prescriptions, which would be tolerence to amphetamines. The reason I bring this up is because my brother has had ADHD for years now and been taking Adderall for an equal amount of time. In the beginning anyone who takes ADHD medication will "feel" different because they're taking a euphoric stimulant. However for peope who take it everyday (like my brother) after, at most, a month taking Adderall hardly phases them in an active sense. In fact, after taking Adderall for just a few days psychiatrists recommend reducing dosage if you still feel ANY resulting euphoria from the drug. The effect Adderall is supposed to have on ADHD patients is a passive effect. It is supposed to keep them focused and keep them from being hyperactive, without the patient actually noticing they're on a drug, except for the fact that they are performing better.

    My brother actually ran into a problem of too high a doseage for therapuetic considerations. He had been taking 30mg XR but the problem was that the effects didn't last for the time after school, so he switched to 30 XR in the morning and 10 IR in the afternoon. This dosage combination was too high for him and he felt as thought, socially, he couldn't perform like he used to. He was noticing that he'd watch his friends in deep conversation and find himself unable to interject anything while on a high dose. For SWIM its completely different. If he is feeling euphoria from amphetamines he will talk nonstop. However for my brother this was a major problem easily solved by a reduction in dose.

    The point is that Adderall is not supposed to "change who you are." If it does, for an extended period of time, you're taking too much of it to treat ADHD. And given tolerence issues I can understand very high does of Adderall used to treat ADHD. SWIM for example recieves 60mg a day, of which he usually doesn't take much. Still, if he took 60mg a day, it would probably mostly be a passive effect for him because of how quickly his tolerence has built. He can take 40mg IR in a single dose and not really be actively phased by the drug. Of course he'll notice the passive effects, but he won't be jittery, sweating, or all over the place. For him, its around the right dose for treatment of his ADHD.

    Finally to address the issue the ADHD is mostly a bullshit condition, I agree and disagree with this. I do think that a lot of people get prescribed ADHD medications when they don't have ADHD. Is this necessarily bad? Not really, becasue ADHD medications are honestly something everyone could benefit from at some point or another. Everyone at some point needs to be more productive, needs help focusing, and procrastinates. ADHD medications will obviously help fight some of this. As for SWIM, his original plan was to "fake" ADHD because he wanted the medication to use in such situations. However as he began to take the initial tests and surveys he realized he didn't have to fake anything because he had it all along (which makes sense considering his father and brother have it). The issue with him was what his psychiatrist described as a product of going to college. In High School I found the work incredibly easy, even when he procrastinated, didn't do it, didn't take notes, etc. He still graduated with a 3.7 GPA and got into a top university. The issue then was college level classes that actually required him to stay on top of his work; something he couldn't do and never did because he didn't have to. This is when he began struggling and got his diagnosis.

    There is a very fine line between ADHD and no ADHD, though. I feel that anyone who highlights certain traits, while downplaying others, in a consultation could get an ADHD diagnosis. It is in this sense that ADHD is over-diagnosed. However, as I said earlier, I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing, at least for responsible adults. I don't think a child should be taking ADHD medication if they don't have ADHD. If they do, then almost certainally it will be more of a "high" for them than a therapuetic drug. Adults I feel it is different, however. I could just say that I believe adults have the right to put whatever they want in their body and end it at that (I do believe that) but I think with adderall it does go further. As I mentioned earlier I believe everyone could benefit from Adderall. Its just a very good all purpose drug to have around when you need to be more productive, something adults need to be often. If it helps them with their work, even if they don't have ADHD, why shouldn't they use it as long as they don't abuse it?
     
  17. bewilderment

    bewilderment Drug Geek Extraordinaire Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I don't have any qualms with the adults taking amphetamines to increase performance. I also believe that people differ in their concentration abilities and some can be hindered if they cannot concentrate as well as others. But, I believe ADD/ADHD/whatever variants is a functional disorder just as many other mental illnesses are. It's also a learning disorder which makes it worse. If we were still in the days when formal education wasn't so crucial then these conditions wouldn't be a big deal.

    The problem is that the biological underpinnings of attention-deficiencies aren't known at all. And, giving children amphetamines can retard normal growth and functioning of dopamine pathways. I just stumbled upon two interesting articles:

    I really don't think it's appropriate for anyone to take amphetamines on a daily basis. But, I think it can still be helpful for adults to take on an "as-needed" basis.
     
  18. Ranke

    Ranke Newbie

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    As my last post doesn't actually include swims personal beliefs or really much text at all I will make up for that here.

    My is in total agreement with swibewilderment. He has serious problems with the reckless prescription of stimulents to both adults and children without providing adequate information. This is not to say he supports the prescription of stimulents to children, only that he believes more information needs to be provided. If I had it his way no one under 13-14 would be prescribed any dopaminergic stimulents. The risks for perminent damage are too great and based on swims memory of primary school and middle school, there is really no need for even those with ADD to take medication. Swim cannot speak for highschool as he never attended (he skipped to go to a community college).
     
  19. lulz

    lulz Gold Member

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    I have medically diagnosed Atention Deficit Disorder.

    It's hard making people understand what that means.

    To non-drug users, they think it means I'm hyperactive. But in my case I'm not, I just have attentive problems.

    To drug users, they think it means I need dopamine boosting drugs. Now they can help, but they don't really apply to me. I had a qEEG reading taken on my brain and it's noradrenaline that I'm deficient in.

    Thing is, in my case what works PERFECTLY is Straterra and yohimbine. ADD comes in many different forms, mine is a deficit of noradrenaline. So combining a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor with a noradrenaline autoreceptor antagonist cranks me up to full speed.

    Unfortunately I had to figure the yohimbine part out myself. (note to anybody potentially in my boat)