Alternative routes of administration and Research Chemicals

Discussion in 'Research Chemicals' started by Alfa, Nov 6, 2006.

  1. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    The body has a natural route to dispose drugs and get rid of potential hazards/side effects.
    The oral route means several filtering sytems, like the liver, kidneys, stomache acid and the bowels, before the research chemical enters the blood stream. Bypassing these filters does mean an increase of side effects and potentially exposing parts of your body to drugs it can not sufficiently cope with. This is why snorting RC's is generally not a good idea.
    While research chemicals are not research well enough to expose the safety and unsafety of these chemicals, routes of administrations like plugging and snorting open the user up to even greater risks.
    The deaths which occured after users started snorting 2C-T-7 are a clear example of this.
    Injecting research chemicals straight into the blood stream clearly pose a even greater risk.

    Your opinions please
     
  2. Djvr16

    Djvr16 Silver Member

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    Great points Alfa. My take on this is that even if we ingest these chemicals, there is a potential risk down the line with oral ingestion as well. These chemicals are not fully understood and as far as we know, every single one of them could cause cancer 20 years from now. The user taking these chemicals should be aware of this uncertainty in the side effects that could possibly arise. My belief is that snorting and plugging are of no greater risk to having side effects. It relies primarily on the dosage, as better absorption means lower dosage for the desired effects. The people using 2c-t-7 were using irresponsible amounts with a better route for absorption of the drug. Maybe they were unaware that 2c-t-7 is doubled, or tripled effects wise in the nose, which seems rather unbelievable. Plugging and snorting these compounds comes down to dosage and responsibility. The user should know that a lower dose is needed to reach the same effects. On the idea of toxicity through these routes. I believe that if through oral ingestion and the filtration of our bodies, if these chemicals were toxic, we would still be getting poisoned through any route of administration. It is possible that plugging, snorting, and IV could pose a great threat for toxicity, but I still think that either way we would still be poisoned the same, or maybe slightly less as orally taking the drug.
     
  3. dikki

    dikki Newbie

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    Thumbs up! Personally i don't like snorting any drugs. Just doesn't feel comfortable for me. I didn't know that you would bypass those filters, does that mean, the drugs go right into the blood when snorted?


    dikki
     
  4. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    What's to be considered alternative? There's oral, snorting, plugging, smoking, injecting, sublingual, skin absorption... is there something that's "meant to be" naturally out of those?

    Lots of well-researched chemicals are dosed sublingually or using skin patches, and IV/injection is really popular in hospitals. Rectal admin is used often with infants. It doesn't seem to SWIM that other-than-oral routes are considered risky by the medical profession.
     
  5. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    well, seeing as we are mostly primates, observing primates in the wild (or on the TV if you have to) one notes they tend to self-administer novel compounds via oral at first (ever seen a chimp try to plug / snort a watermelon?).

    thus, one may deduct that when it comes to novel CNS xenotoxins (manmade and not 'naturally occuring' psychoactives), us higher primates should follow suit, even moreso since we know most were designed with oral activity in mind.

    while many methods may be employed to intake, and some certainly more direct than via oral, the first pass metabolism is there for a reason, folks.

    as we say in paragliding, there's old pilots and there's bold pilots, but there ain't no old bold pilots.
     
  6. betsym

    betsym Newbie

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    I had the research chemical 2C-i administered by IV ONCE, for research purposes and didn't have a hard time with it. The amount was small, maybe 10 milligrams. Visuals were present and very pleasant. Research chemicals are of pharmaceutical grade and should be carefully weighed. I have tried it orally a few times, for comparisons regarding amount, and that was the end of the experiment. I do know that the iv method is the riskiest one and does not recommend anyone trying this outside of a research setting and even then with the utmost care.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  7. thadj

    thadj Newbie

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    I strongly disagree. At best, your res. chemical is produced by a chemical company which only checks if the product is of reasonable purity. Saying that a product is of pharmaceutical grade would imply to availability of information on exact composition and safety of the product (ie. impurities, their identity and toxicology, microbial contamination, etc.).
     
  8. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    ^for that matter, it would imply established pharmakokinetic and toxicological profiles etc, as well as, of course COAs, MSDSs, regulatory registration numbers...research chemicals are by definition 'research grade'.
     
  9. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Doesn't seem quite fair to SWIM to lump all alternative routes of admin together with IV injection. In other words, someone who likes rectal or sublingual or snorting might not be a "bold pilot" at all... the true definition of that is one who injects directly into the veins. At least in SWIM's opinion.
     
  10. renegades

    renegades Silver Member

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    I have seen on forums the popularity to plug e. Reports are since it bypasses the digestive system and instead is melted by body heat and fluids none of the drug is filtered out as with the oral route. However, they have the disadvantage of exposing the drug to just a small fraction of the rectum's absorptive surface (the rectum is about six inches long, much longer than any pill). According to doctors - people must take larger dose of the drug administered as a plug than if the same drug is taken by mouth. I have never plugged an Research Chemical but wondering if there are any swim's out there that has taken the plug plunge.
     
  11. NeonCortex

    NeonCortex Silver Member

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    Sticking things up your ass often the fastest way to get something into your bloodstream if you're afraid of needles or don't have access to clean ones.
     
  12. seechao

    seechao Silver Member

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    I was experimenting with DPT and had only a small amount, so he did not want to eat it, as the oral dose was much higher than isuflated, so I tried insuflation, but was distracted from the trip by severe nasal cavity pain, the next time swim tried it, he dissolved the DPT in water and stuck it up his bum bum, he used a seringe with the needle pulled out and used a lighter to round off the edges on it, in the end, it wasnt bad for discomphort, and the slight intestinal irritation was bearable, especialy since DPT causes intestinal problems even when snorted, the dose used was the same as insuflation, and was noticed to be slightly diminished in effects, but not much. I think it's a good administration methode for DPT, if you up the dose a little, say 10-20%
     
  13. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    I believe you are correct about injecting, and snorting probably does carry greater risks than oral dosing. I do not believe "plugging" poze much of a hazard, although it's a little used method afaik. All you are really bypassing is digestion in the stomach, which is intended for food and either has no effect on drugs or merely reduces bio-availability and slows absorption.
     
  14. cyndi

    cyndi R.I.P. Silver Member

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    I tried some of the research chemicals out of curiousity. It didn't do a thing for swim but I was a bit leary of something I am not familiar with and probably didn't do enough. Swim snorted it, plugging is gross.
     
  15. seechao

    seechao Silver Member

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    Well... the method I mentioned was actualy almost completely without discomfort, but I guess it also has alot to do with your comfort level arround your own naughty bits... This was the first time SWIM put something up there for recreational purposes, so it was a bit... strange, but no more invasive than being raped by a spider monkey.
    However, I would like to chime in and say that it isnt without risks, your intestinal wall is a very sensitive mucal membrane, like your nose, and although it may have less nerve endings and it dosnt hurt like snorting, we've all heard of people who put too much stuff up their nose and ended up eating away half their faces. I am certain that doing this too often could lead to related problems, hemroids, ulcers, or even long term irritation, which could lead to cancer or other problems. This is most likely a long term risk more than anything, however some substances could be worst than others. I would suggest to use caution, and to pay attention to your body, any sign of extended discomfort should be a clear warning to stop for a while. Dont forget that most these substances have had no clinical, long term use studies done on them, and I think I can safely say that none have had any studies done on anal administration. Even the anecdotal evidence from recreational users would be impossible to draw conclusions from, since anal administration of any of these substances is probably quite rare, considering how few people have administered them to themselves in any form.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  16. cyndi

    cyndi R.I.P. Silver Member

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    I am not judgemental so please don't take it that way. I don't like to snort either really. I do agree that snort is bad for sinuses. Whatever one's comfortlevel is, is a personal issue. And swim well just doesn't feel plugging is for her. I feltshe needed to elaborate a bit. :) Maybe swim better elaborate more, she is feeling this area out. No I would never use a chem without knowing how to use safely now. However, I was not so bright when she started in the world of learning about chems and did rail one at that time, never do that. It is always good to know what you are getting into and how to use it safely if at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2007
  17. dan420syn

    dan420syn Newbie

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    swim tried plugging 2ct2 when he only had about 20mg left and orally usually took ~35-40.. it worked faster and he seemed to think it hit harder than twice as much orally.. and yea as far as injection of Research Chemicals I really don't recommend it unless you're allready really experienced and start low... first one he tried like that was DPT, he knew shulgin had them stop his IV at 12 and 16mg but went ahead and loaded a little under 100 and pushed it over about 30 seconds... he spent 2 hours rolling around on his bed in total pleasure and kept saying WOW! he later told me he couldn't see anything that was really in the room, fun for him but would have been scary to someone new