Drug info - Amanita basics

Discussion in 'Amanita' started by Alfa, Jun 19, 2005.

  1. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    117 y/o from The Netherlands
    Please post info and questions on the basics ofAmanita use here. Ways of use, Dosage, Background, toxicity, etc...
     
  2. Phungushead

    Phungushead Twisted Depiction Staff Member Administrator

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    Amanita Notes - Smith

    Amanita Notes
    by Michael S. Smith
    October, 1997

    Harvesting Amanita muscaria

    Depending on your climate Amanita muscaria will fruit from late Summer until
    Fall. In my own area of the upper Ohio River Valley the mushrooms will stop
    fruiting concurrent with the falling of the leave. It is a beautiful sight to
    come upon a site of these mushrooms, ranging in size from 2 inches to nearly a
    foot in diameter, and anywhere from a deep yellow or orange to a soft yellow or
    orange. Many will be dark orange at the apex surrounded by a halo of yellow.
    Some of the most recent ones I've gathered are of a pure gold, while others are
    the pure white Amanita muscaria v. alba. The stems can also be variable, from
    thin to thick, with basal rings or without, with small bases or bulbous. Though
    many mycologist give very detailed descriptions I have spoken with some
    individuals that say the species has quite variable features, even among the red
    variety. A very good book to read up on Amanita muscaria recognition and
    identification is David Arora's Mushrooms Demystified.

    My own method of searching out this mysterious mushroom is by driving through
    the suburbs after a day of good rains or nice misty nights and passing slowly
    through the neighborhood peering under simply what I call pine trees. Here in
    our area we have numerous old pines scattered around homes but very few that
    grow in the wild. Many of the limbs grow all the way down to the ground,
    therefore it may be necessary to look under them, especially if they are in a
    dense clump. I can imagine someone looking into their backyard and seeing me
    climb out from under a clump of their trees with a handful, or sometimes a box
    full, of mushrooms. But don't think it's that hard, I've also seen many that
    have grown nearly 5 yards from the nearest tree.

    Since these mushrooms grow almost always in residential neighborhoods I can
    often be found stopping at the side of the road rather quickly. I sometimes feel
    that I should have a sticker that says "this vehicle comes to sudden stops." Of
    course I put my blinkers on and jump out for the gathering, many a driver and
    homeowner peering on as I wave to them with a handful of Amanita muscaria's.
    Usually this can be done rather quickly and you can be on your way to the next
    patch, but sometimes, especially if a lot of mushrooms are present, or if they
    are in a sensitive area of the yard, you might want to ask the residents for
    permission. Occasionally I will go to the door and ask if I can collect their
    bounty. This gets many strange comments, including how they are toadstools and
    poisonous, or inquiries asking what I plan on doing with them. I have a number
    of different reasons for gathering them that are dependent on my first
    impression of the individuals. I most commonly say they are going to be sold to
    a friend who uses them for arts and craft, sometimes I will say they can be
    eaten, but that they have to be prepared a certain way or else they will be
    poisonous, and once I even claimed I was a biology student at the local
    university collecting them for study. When doing these runs into other peoples
    yards I would recommend that one dress as non-threatening as possible. If you do
    happen to have a run in with a resident be as friendly as possible and think
    fast about what to tell them. And if you get engaged in conversation about the
    mushrooms ask them what they know about them, you may be able to find out about
    their own cultural understanding of the Amanita muscaria.

    Eventually you will find that the mushrooms will continue growing under a
    certain stand of trees for the season and you can return there once or twice a
    week. Interestingly I have found many Amanita muscaria growing in one spot one
    season, but upon my return the next they have not returned. Therefore I
    recommend that you allow the mushrooms to sporinate before harvesting and that
    you also leave a few to follow their normal cycle of birth and return to the
    earth. One year I collected so many from the local golf course that the next
    year was almost devoid of them. You should have seen me walking around with a
    bag collecting mushrooms as golfers, who often mistook the unopened caps for
    their golf balls, looked on in wonderment.

    Once you get near the mushrooms sit among them for a few minutes if possible,
    they are a wonderful sight to behold and have a very mysterious resonance about
    them. Admire them for a little bit before they become sacrificial victims. Most
    of the time you will find the mushrooms in their many different stages of
    growth, from just raising their round heads above the ground to total
    decomposition. The ones you really want to look for are those that are dried on
    the stalk as these are said, by some contemporary commentators and the native
    Siberians, to be the most potent in regards to their effects. These are also the
    most difficult specimens to find simply because the weather conditions have to
    be in such a state to allow the mushroom to dry without rotting. The second most
    desirable state to collect is those that are in the process of sporination.
    These can be recognized by their nearly horizontal parasol, upturning parasol,
    or tears in the striations along the edge of the cap. The least desirable
    specimens are those which some might consider the most desirable. They are the
    ones that are still in the process of expanding and are not in sporination, but
    which are the most divine looking in shape and color. If at all possible leave
    these behind and come back in a day or two to see if they are still around. It
    is said that the smaller ones are the most potent as well, but remember, get
    them after their sporination. When removing the Amanita muscaria I recommend
    first giving the cap a few good taps to knock out spores for future harvests and
    then cutting off the cap at the uppermost part of the stem. If in sporination
    the stem should be ripe with fallen spores that will eventually make their way
    back into the ground.

    The most common enemies to the Amanita muscaria are gnat larvae, snails,
    squirrels, deer, lawn mowers, and possibly polluted rain. Gnat larvae are
    probably the worst enemies, drilling up from the stem and into the cap, often
    devouring the gills and inner meat while avoiding the immediate cap, possibly
    due to its chemical makeup. Snails don't do much damage, but will often leave a
    hole or two through the stem and cap as well as some dried slime. Squirrels will
    usually just take a bit or two, leaving a majority of the cap, but a deer will
    bite the whole cap off, leaving just a stem poking out of the ground. The worst
    fate is to return a day or two later after waiting for full sporination to find
    the mushrooms ground up by a mower or trampled underfoot by the neighborhood
    children. The last possible enemy to Amanita muscaria growth would appear to be
    acidified rain. From my own experience I've noticed that Amanita muscaria
    populations are almost non-existent in the Eastern suburbs of our largest
    metropolitan area, while to the West they grow in incredible abundance. My only
    explanation is that the top soil in the East has become polluted by the airborne
    particles carried out of the city and dropped by rain in the Eastern suburbs,
    thereby inhibiting the production of mycelia.

    Preparation and Ingestion

    The most important aspect of Amanita muscaria preparation lies in the drying
    and/or of heating of the mushroom. What these two processes do is convert the
    less powerful Ibotenic acid into the highly psychopharacologically chemical
    muscimol through decarboxylation. If this is not done then the potency as an
    inebrient is lessened. There are a number of ways to do this.

    The fresh mushroom can be roasted over an open flame via the Wasson technique
    discovered by a friend of his in Japan who roasted the mushroom over an open
    fire and then consumed it with euphoric effects. One technique that I have tried
    was over a fire as well, but was a little different. I had taken the unripened
    parasol caps and placed them upside down on a gas grill set on low. As the
    mushroom heated up liquid condensed in the cup and was drunk. This produced a
    strong sense of euphoria in which I could not help but dance around and sing to
    myself (both very common reports by Siberians of Amanita muscaria intoxication).
    A very pleasurable experience from a total of about 2 tablespoons of the liquid.
    One later thought was to take these same mushrooms after collecting the
    condensed liquid and to press out the remaining juices, but instead I swallowed
    them in large pieces and retched horribly. I've also noticed that as I've oven
    dried my Amanita muscaria's a liquid would drain out of the mushrooms onto the
    cooking sheet. This liquid might be easily collected by taking the cooking sheet
    and attaching a screen of some sort a few centimeters above it and allow the
    liquid to drip into the sheet and dry for later removal. But I believe a
    dehydrator is the best at keeping their shape and color. One might even want to
    try expressing the juices from raw or rehydrated mushrooms and then heating the
    remaining liquid. This liquid may also be dehydrated and gel-capped.

    If you have dried your mushrooms then one can simply eat them or else do the
    hot water method of preparation by bringing some water to the near simmer point,
    but not quite rolling point, at about 190 degrees, and add the ground mushrooms.
    Let this cook in the water for about a half hour to an hour and them consume,
    water, ground mushrooms and all. For those of you who can't stand the taste of
    dried mushrooms or the tea (like myself who for some strange reason has the gag
    reflex the minute I try to swallow, and sometimes when I just smell) the gel-cap
    method may work best. Simply take the dried mushrooms, grind them up, and stuff
    into gel-caps. One might also take the tea, dehydrate it, and then gel-cap. I
    have never tried the tea method, but it may be possible that this method
    increases the muscimol levels even above drying, so this type of gel-cap method
    might be worth a try. Since the majority of the alkaloids reside within the caps
    skin it might also be worth a try either to peal off the skin from fresh
    mushrooms and dry, or else remove the gills from dried specimens, to reduce the
    amount needing to be consumed.

    A few other less common methods may be worth mentioning, the first is the
    possibility that the juice of the mushroom could be absorbed through the skin.
    This method is described by Adrian Morgan in the wonderful and beautiful book
    Toads and Toadstools, and is the only place I've ever heard of such an avenue of
    ingestion. This method might work best with dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), a aprotic
    solvent. Another interesting method would be by enema or direct insertion of the
    mushroom into the vagina, the second method certainly not being condoned as it
    might easily produce infection, or worse. Clark Heinrich, in his excellent book
    Strange Fruit, makes suggestions that in Tantric texts and art there exists
    evidence pointing towards these routes of administration in highly symbolic
    rituals. Smoking the mushroom has also proven to produce mild effects. Since the
    skin contains the highest concentrations of muscimol it can be peeled off fresh
    mushrooms and dried or else the gills and stem can be discarded from dried
    specimens. I personally would be interested in seeing the effects of smoked
    concentrated extract or pure muscimol.

    The last method I would like to mention is the most interesting and may
    produce the strongest effects. This is to combine any of the above methods with
    Peganum harmala seeds or extract to produce monoamine oxidase inhibition. I have
    never tried this method myself but am aware of one such experimentation which
    produced very strong effects. I've been awaiting a report from this
    acquaintance, but have yet to receive it. I first heard of this technique from
    an employee of an occult bookstore and herbal center which sells many
    uncontrolled entheogens. This employee, and practitioner of Wiccan magic, stated
    that if Peganum harmala is used with Amanita muscaria the Amanita muscaria
    dosage could be cut in half. I first thought she was confusing her mushrooms, as
    a dosage of Psilocybin mushrooms can be halved when taken with P. harmala. I
    mentioned this to her, and to my surprise she stated that she has tried the
    Amanita muscaria/P. harmala combination. I later talked with the owner of the
    store who stated that there is a history of this combination. I personally am
    unaware of this type of usage in the entheogen community, but it's possible that
    it exists in Wiccan practices. Upon my mentioning of this combination on the old
    Visionary Plant List I received a response from JRH who had mentioned this to J.
    Ott as a way to clear up the linguistic controversy of Wasson's and Flattery's
    opposing theories. JRH stated that Ott didn't have anything to say about this
    possibility.

    Due to environmental factors and the possibility that the time of harvesting
    (see Amanita muscaria myths below) effects the alkaloid level and composition of
    each mushroom it is important to make an attempt to equalize the alkaloid
    content of the collection you have. This can be done by grinding up all the
    Amanita muscaria's you have into a powder or else dicing them into small chunks
    and thoroughly mixing together. The powder is best used in the tea or gel cap
    method, while the diced mushrooms are good for eating dry or cooking with. If
    you have whole fresh mushrooms to be heated or dried caps each individual should
    get an equal portion of each mushroom so that everyone gets exactly the same
    amount and concentration of alkaloids. By this you can possibly avoid
    differences in effects among the individual participants.

    A couple interesting myths have surrounded these mushrooms for a number or
    years of which I have difficulty accepting due to their lack of controlled
    scientific study. The first of these is that North American specimens lack the
    potency levels of Eurasian specimens. Personally I don't see how a scientific
    control group could be produced with a mushroom that is reputed to contain
    highly variable alkaloid contents from mushroom to mushroom. Now if controlled
    experiments could be done in a lab environment with North American and Eurasian
    specimens grown in the same substrate and with identical environmental
    conditions and then tested for alkaloid concentrations the results might be more
    reliable. (Hell, it could be the tree which define the mushrooms alkaloids.) But
    until this is possible I will accept it as a drug enforcement lie produced to
    discourage experimentation. Also, don't forget that mushrooms are not plants
    that have difficulty disseminating throughout the world. The spores are easily
    transported through the air by wind currents, so I doubt there is any
    distinctions between North American and Eurasian Amanita muscaria. Just a
    thought.

    A second rumor is that Amanita muscaria collected in the beginning of the
    season are more potent, and less toxic to the system, than those collected
    towards the end of the season. I personally have not done any experimentation in
    this area, but I do believe that further scientific study is needed to verify
    this information. From what I understand this is myth has some support in the
    ethnobotanical lore of Siberian tribes.

    Once you are ready to explore the realms of Amanita muscaria intoxication it
    is recommended that you start by equalizing the strength of the mushrooms by the
    above mentioned methods. A low dose trial is always in order to test the power
    of the material you have and to examine how ones body reacts to this particular
    collection of mushrooms. I believe 5 grams or less is a good starting point
    which can be gradually increased according to ones desires. Usually the first
    effects can be felt within the first half hour and vary according to each
    individuals constitution, but any augmentation of dosage should not be consumed
    until the effects are in full swing, about 2 hours after ingestion.

    The Amanita muscaria Intoxication

    The Amanita muscaria intoxication can be quite variable, from nausea,
    sweating, and salivation produced from a high level of muscarine in the
    mushroom, to the more desirous effects of euphoria, elevated mood, auditory and
    visual hallucinations, and increased strength and stamina produced by the
    muscimol, or the best of all, to feel the desire to dance and sing. But it must
    be understood that within this mushroom is heaven and hell. While with one
    experiment you can find bliss, within the next you may find terror. In one you
    may feel power and strength and in the next find the deepest somnambulance. This
    mushroom makes no guarantees, and I believe that it is just such a lack of
    predictability that has instilled this mushroom with such awe and mystery
    through Old and New World alike. These are not organisms that you want to
    carelessly ingest, therefore I suggest that someone care and supervise for you.
    And unless they are truly sick in body I would attempt to refrain from calling
    an ambulance, the sickness will pass in time. And remember to first identify
    Amanita muscaria from its more deadly relatives, A. phalloides, A. ocreata, A.
    virosa, and A. verna, before gathering on your own. Each of these potentially
    deadly species can be differentiated from Amanita muscaria by their saclike
    volva. If you have any doubt whatsoever about the mushroom you have then discard
    it.

    Cultivation

    Amanita muscaria cultivation in a lab environment has always been an
    impossibility due to the symbiotic mycorrhizal relationship of this mushroom to
    its host trees. But if one has the necessary host trees in their area, and
    resides in the proper temperate zone or elevation, try and simply take a few
    dried or fresh caps that are in sporination (fully flattened or upturning with
    longitudinal tears along the striations), crush them up thoroughly, and mix the
    crushings into the top soil. See if it will take. If one doesn't want to make
    the initial investment of the caps simply chop up the stems from sporinating
    specimens, which will naturally have collected some of the falling spores, and
    mix with the soil. Clark Heinrich states that he simply buries the stems under
    the proper host tree for cultivation, but then again he probably lives the the
    perfect environment. I would recommend that this be done in the Fall soon after
    the fruiting season or in early Spring so that the spores can receive their
    proper life cycle. My own observations (I've yet to actually learn this) of
    Amanita muscaria growth suggest that mycelia growth takes place primarily
    throughout the Spring and Summer months and is highly dependent on rain and soil
    moisture preceding the Fall fruiting. If the season is dry just water your
    mushroom garden every few days. A host tree in a large container that can be
    left outdoors year round may be a candidate for cultivation if one is in the
    right zone.

    Last Thoughts

    I can't help but reiterate to the reader that just because some modern people
    cannot seem to consistently feel the same effects from Amanita muscaria as is
    postulated the ancients did in no way should lessen the theory of Amanita
    muscaria being the divine Soma of the 4000 year old Rigveda and one of the world
    oldest religious tools. As is well know shamanism didn't just mean kicking back
    after the ingestion of an entheogen, the way which many moderns work with
    entheogens. Instead archaic man was very proficient in many techniques to alter
    their state of awareness, and these no doubt where used in combination with the
    mushroom, thereby altering the purely psychopharmacological effects of the
    mushrooms alkaloids. Modern man is also much more familiar with strong synthetic
    chemical hallucinogens. In our age of LSD, Psilocybin, and DMT we can't help but
    feel that anything less than the experiences these produce could be considered
    powerful. But to the ancient Siberians, whose familiarity with stronger
    entheogens was nonexistent, an Amanita muscaria experience, which can induce
    both heaven or hell, would certainly take on Godly proportions. Might it even be
    possible that as the earliest waves of archaic man past over the present day
    Americas they brought with them their Amanita muscaria traditions, nesting in a
    few spots such as the Pacific Northwest, Canada, the Great Lakes region, Mexico,
    and Guatemala, and that some sought out new allies in Psilocybe species, Yage,
    and Ebena. Our reference for a Godly entheogenic experience has changed from
    that of archaic mankind. Many believe this mushroom lacks entheogenic value, but
    history has shown that it has long been valued by mankind, throughout Europe,
    Siberia, and in the Americas. I think it is unwise to compare our western
    philosophical understanding of Amanita muscaria to that of the religio-magical
    experiences of the ancients. This is a powerful mushroom that deserves our
    respect and attention for possibly being the ancient source for that which makes
    us human.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2005
    1. 4/5,
      Very useful information!
      Sep 11, 2012
    2. 5/5,
      excellent, informative post. very curious about this otherwise obscure fungus.
      Sep 13, 2008
    3. 5/5,
      Fantastic post with excellent information
      Sep 12, 2006
    4. 5/5,
      good post, hard to find good info on amanitas sometimes
      Aug 5, 2006
  3. Softrat

    Softrat Newbie

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    Most books say that A. pantherina is more toxic than A. muscaria. In my experience this has not ben the case. I have never gotten ill from eating panthers. But have have gotten sick every time I have eaten the Yellow A. muscaria.
     
  4. draxon

    draxon Newbie

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    Ive always found the hot water method to be the best for dried A. muscaria. It makes a great soup if you grind up dried mushrooms soke them in hot water for about 20 mins then strain out half the pulp, i usually leave half in becuase of the great flavor, add some spices of your choice and alittle bit of pasta maybe. Its a fantastic dish and it works quite well in creating magical experiance.


    Becareful though overdose isnt pleasent


    Ive also found that smoking the groud mushroomskins along with some cannibis will improve the high and add a bit of a magical opiate quality to it
     
  5. Softrat

    Softrat Newbie

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    Smoking weed after eating A. pantherina can lead to some AMAZING trips. Very very strong halucinations. [​IMG]
     
  6. cordero

    cordero Newbie

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    hmm i have a question about this stuff i saw online called "amanita
    resin extract" or something of that sort and it said that it was 25
    times the regular strangth of aminitas and i was wondering if any of
    you have tried this and tell me if it works or if its legit or not
     
  7. jarka

    jarka Gold Member

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    Last year I tried many diffrent ways of using Amanita Muscaria with almost no results. It is autumn again, so why not give another try. I'll go hunting soon..
     
  8. Ninja Master

    Ninja Master Silver Member

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    i swear if i quit comming here its because of that michel smith amanita
    notes being spammed to hell. usualy when i see a post like that i
    hit the back button. its a good article, and a link would do the
    job perfectly. heres my research on the subject, and much more
    friendly to the eyes than that giant post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2009
  9. DJ

    DJ Silver Member

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    ninjamaster...that link is dead.

    was there a method describing how to make amanita resin extract 10X-25X in it? I cannot find one anywhere.
     
  10. Euphoric

    Euphoric Platinum Member

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    When drying amanitas in an oven, how long should SWIM leave them in there?
     
  11. Phungushead

    Phungushead Twisted Depiction Staff Member Administrator

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    Until they're dry, make sure that any juices that come out onto the tray
    get spooned back onto the amanita.

    Time depends on the size of the mushrooms...
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  12. jools

    jools Newbie

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    Help!!

    SWIm has 10g amanita. Trusted source (little old lady, grey hair, i kid you not) suggested plonking the lot in vodka and so I has obliged.

    Said mixture has been brewing for about an hour.

    Will this swimmer survive with all faculties intact? (Swimmer loved LSD back in the day but has stuff like wrinkles and cellulite to scare her now)

    All comments gratefully received QUICKLY please. Potion brews in about an hour. (Yum)

    SWIM might keep you posted xx
     
  13. DrMuffy

    DrMuffy Silver Member

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    SWIdr is not sure wether y'all know this already, but the main psycoactive ingrediant in Fly Agaric can be recycled. SWIdr is not exactly sure but the body metabolizing this chemical in a funny way so that it can be harvested via urination a day or so after ingestion. Of course who in their rite mind would drink their own piss just to get a lil high, but there probably is a way to extract it and reuse the stuff.
     
  14. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Urine contains shitloads of toxins and an extract would be far from pure muscimol. Shamanic cultures drank each others urine in order to get high from it (after the donor ate the amanita), but that is something else. Most shamans fast several days before taking a sacrament, and that way few toxins will be in the urine. Drinking lots of water prior to taking the mushroom would also purify the urine. But still, just the idea of "recycling" urine sounds weird. But it could work, since amanitas are usually limited on late summer/fall, and muscimol (pure) is pretty expensive.

    Also, drinking carbonated water with the mushroom would convert the muscimol back into ibotenic acid (not recommended).
     
  15. psychobill90

    psychobill90 Newbie

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    actualy, urine dose not containe as many toxins as most people are lead to belive, if you watch or read anything about survival(the show surviaver excluded, cause they just dump a bunch of people off on some exotic island, and make them race for food and other survival items) in the a fucked up situation(such as getting lost in the desert or woods) there have been people that have survived from drinking their own piss.. i dont recomend you go out and piss into your favorite drink, and drink it... but it is better then not having anythin...
     
  16. DrMuffy

    DrMuffy Silver Member

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    ^^^^^^
    Haha, that is good to know but SWIdr would only drink his own piss is: A. He was paid alot to, or B. he was really in need of some amanita effects after a trip.
    By the way did anyone know Vikings used amanitas before battles to make them stronger and seem "invinceable", You can look it up on google, interesting fact, huh?
     
  17. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    They grow in late summer/fall. I think you can wait until then, it isn't really much more than a nice sedative.

    Also, about piss drinking: Here is a thread dedicated to this. As Nag said in there, fasting a couple of days and consuming lots of liquids will probably lower the risk of any serious problems from urine drinking.

    I read about Amanita being the "berserker drug". But that's just a hypothetical theory, no facts to back it up.
     
  18. JDreaming

    JDreaming R.I.P. Gold Member R.I.P.

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    This is very interesting if its true... how does the carbonation convert muscimol back? And would carbonated sodas have the same nasty effect?
     
  19. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Do a google search and you'll find this discussed many times. I don't know how it happens.
     
  20. steel

    steel Newbie

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    Apr 11, 2007
    Just a side note from mrduffy. The vikings would take psychotropics before going into battle which gave them the nickname "berserks" That is where it came from. Just thought it was interesting.

    You all scare me though with this non-chalant (sp?) use of amanitas. I have been studying amanitas for a while. Jeezus, be careful. As far as I know, it is not as easy as this post has made it sound. Amanitas are some of the most deadly things in the woods. (Hense the Amanita "Death Angel" which looks nothing like muscaria colorwise), but still... I have heard many stories of preparation. All of them specific and somewhat scientific. You do not want to eat the white alkaloid gills, just the skin area. This drying and cooking for a liquid is new to me. I am no expert, but my research says that yes, there is a very strong effect from preparing A.m. correctly and having a downright wonderful time. But I think of it as a sushi blowfish. It can kill you if you do it wrong. Just be careful. Just like hunting for magic mushrooms, you always have to watch out for that one hidden Galena that will never send you home.

    Steel