USA - American Libertarianism - Dr. Ron Paul

Discussion in 'Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics' started by machine_elf, May 17, 2007.

  1. machine_elf

    machine_elf Silver Member

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    I hear that Dr. Ron Paul (currently running for leader of the republican party) is a libertarian. Is it just me or does it look like the constitution might at last be payed attention to? Is drug relegalisation for 2008 a real possibility or just a pipe dream?



    "There is but one special interest that we should be working for, and that would solve just about all of our problems, and that is our Liberty."
     
  2. Shiacmkmleer

    Shiacmkmleer Titanium Member

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    Speaking as a future Ron Paul voter... Damn right! We're going to take back this nation. Guess who had the most postive view in MSNBCs poll after the republican debate? Ron Paul appeals to a part of the Republican base that has been negelected for so long...While the other canidates are all the same he offers something different... I would be supprised if he didn't at least finish second or third in the primary (although sadly that wouldn't win it I still feel first is a possibility)
     
  3. bob_arctor

    bob_arctor Titanium Member

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    Doesn't it seem a little bit contradictory for a libertarian to partake in the self-defeating carousel and circus of parliamentarism?
     
  4. Shiacmkmleer

    Shiacmkmleer Titanium Member

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    Perhaps in Europe you have a different defintion of a Libertarian? They are not anarchists! They belive in a small government that tends to stay out of things.
     
  5. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    That's the claim made by Republicans as well. Small government. Leave well enough alone. And now they are tapping every single phone call (and keeping digitized recordings), reading and keeping copies of each and every email, And expanding police powers to allow warrantless searches, copying hospital records, and sneaking into ANYONE'S home for little good 'ol American "look-see."

    Yep. I believe 'em. Anyone got room for my new bridge I bought in New York (that's a state, public School graduates)?
     
  6. Shiacmkmleer

    Shiacmkmleer Titanium Member

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    Republicans don't even pretend to be about small government anymore. Hell everyone knows they've made the government bigger if anything.
     
  7. El Calico Loco

    El Calico Loco Gold Member

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    Beware collectivist reality-tunnels. One can't talk about "Republicans" or "Democrats" in any meaningful way - the parties are so large that there are numerous factions within them. It's best to judge each individual according to their merits.

    Republicans are a mix of free-marketeers, social conservatives, constitutionalists, libertarians, and - only in recent decades - the neocons (a bunch of former Troskyites who, by the way, originated in the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic party). The Democrats are a mix of old New Dealers, progressives, environmentalists, union supporters, and outright socialists.

    Most politicians are liars who will say anything they have to in order to increase their power, but there does occasionally appear a statesman who believes in principle and speaks truth to power. Of the current crop of candidates, I believe only Ron Paul (R-Texas) and Mike Gravel (D-Alaska) qualify.

    Ron Paul has been consistently pro-liberty throughout his career. He has introduced bills to legalize cannabis. He voted against the Iraq War and the Patriot Act. He's voted against Bush more often than most Democrats. He ran for president on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1988.

    Mike Gravel I know less about, but he impressed me in the Democratic debate. He seemed to be the only consistently anti-war candidate. From what I can gather, he's been a consistent progressive and environmentalist throughout his career in politics.

    Both, incidentally, want to end the income tax.

    Paul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hfa7vT02lA
    Gravel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gMlHv2lDqA


    ECL
     
    1. 5/5,
      Thanks for the background info.
      May 21, 2007
  8. BEEKSc1

    BEEKSc1 Gold Member

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    Really great point, further books such as "None dare call it conspiracy" among other reliable sources
    The Communist Manifesto in Sociology and Economics
    Joseph A. Schumpeter
    The Journal of Political Economy, Vol. 57, No. 3 (Jun., 1949), pp. 199-212

    The Historical Background of the Communist Manifesto
    George R. Boyer
    The Journal of Economic Perspectives, Vol. 12, No. 4 (Autumn, 1998), pp. 151-174
    provide significant evidence to clearly indicate that communism was funded by German bankers to put out the socialistic propaganda.
    Ron Paul talks about facing the New World Order because it is an obvious attack on the people's individual freedom.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  9. El Calico Loco

    El Calico Loco Gold Member

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    I don't read much NWO conspiracy stuff, but I think there's plenty of evidence that there is a group of wealthy, influential individuals who want to implement a worldwide mixed socialist-mercantilist police state style of government.

    Some seem to believe that it's the way to world peace and prosperity, while others simply state (out in the open) that common human beings are fools who need to be managed like cattle for their own good and for the good of society. And the wise, benevolent managers must be rewarded with vast wealth and power, of course.

    One thing the more paranoid don't realize is that there are other conspiracies as well, and subconspiracies within each one. It's really just a bunch of egoistic gamesmen/women who enjoy the pathetic political struggle for money and glory. They go along with the game for as long as it rewards them and then switch sides and stab backs at opportune moments.

    I am paranoid enough to believe that a true reformer (like Dr. Paul) might be in mortal danger should they ever have any success. Businessmen have been known to kill their partners over a few thousand dollars, and there are trillions at stake in this card game. I don't believe we've found "angels in the form of kings" to govern us, and I think anyone who believes politicians to be above mafia-style behavior is a little naive. What type of personality do you think is most attracted to rulemaking and power and control?


    ECL
    (Sure, they'll try to destroy someone with the media or the courts first...but they won't all stop there.)
     
  10. BEEKSc1

    BEEKSc1 Gold Member

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    No doubt, it has been proposed:
    Estulin: Elitists consider assassinating Ron Paul
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/ron_paul_estulin_bbg_consider_assassinate_rp.htm

    Books by Daniel Estulin
    The Bilderberg Group
    http://www.amazon.com/True-Story-Bi...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199070196&sr=8-1
    Los Secretos Del Club Bilderberg/ the Secrets of Club Bilderberg
    http://www.amazon.com/Los-Secretos-...bs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199070196&sr=8-3
     
  11. Nacumen

    Nacumen Gold Member

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    As you can tell from my profile picture, I'm a big supporter of the good doctor. In fact I don't even refer to him as congressman because I think it's somewhat disgraceful, and he'd probably agree. I've met Paul a couple times and he's a real down to earth guy who doesn't spew bullshit like Obama and Hillary who pretend to offer change to the country. I listened to Barack give a speech, and it was awful, 100% feel-good fluff. I've listened to Bill give a speech for his wife too, and that was almost as bad, but at least he was able to back up his rhetoric with some facts, although they were severely misleading.

    Even John McCain, who's also running for the Republican nomination, once called Paul "the most honest man in Congress." After meeting McCain in person, he's a nicer guy than he seems on television, but I still can't agree with his stance on the war. In fact he just recently said we could stay in Iraq for 100 years if it was necessary, like we've stayed in Korea for 50. The guy is a warmongering neocon, just like the neolibs who are anti-war only to get elected, but wont commit to a pullout within their presidency. Paul on the other hand would bring the troops home, ALL of them across the world, within a year, and put them on our borders instead of trying to police the world and destroying our economy by running the empire's coffers far too thin. In fact, our coffers ARE empty, that's why the federal reserve keeps printing out more paper money and inflating our currency. The empire is on the verge of collapse, and the signs are everywhere.

    Paul was on the cover of High Times back in '88 and was called the only "Pro-pot" candidate. This is however somewhat misleading, because he only believes that the federal government has no right to regulate the drugs of each state. That means that he'll work to abolish the DEA, but that also means that each state can make substances contraband as they see fit, so in some areas it will seem like they're still at square one. But instead of the federal, state and local police being after You for drugs, only the state and local police will be (if they so choose!)

    But if you live in, say, California, Denver, (or at one point Alaska) you'll never see the feds raiding another SWIM's house again for using medical marijuana or any other drug if Paul gets elected and removes the DEA. It's not a perfect solution, but it's the only step in the right direction that's in the feasible political cards right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2008
    1. 4/5,
      Good points, thank for sharing.
      Jan 6, 2008
  12. mouthwater

    mouthwater Gold Member

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    I consider myself economically conservative and socially liberal. Dr. Paul is, in my opinion, the best choice in this election. However, even if elected, I'd be surprised if much of the 'progress' he would make in office wouldn't be overturned by future presidents. Your vote won't determine the outcome of the election. There will still be uneducated voters and politicians and corporations acting as kings and pawns in the system.

    Our political system (among others) is a wreck, unfortunately.
     
  13. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    Paul is an right wing libertarian, maybe better than a neo-con, but he has some very dubious ideas. Here's Chomsky on Paul:
    http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/141986/index.php
     
    1. 4/5,
      Thanks for offering that perspective.
      May 26, 2008
    2. 4/5,
      Nice quote/post, thanks for posting.
      Jan 8, 2008
  14. mouthwater

    mouthwater Gold Member

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    Besides, the constitution was a compromise. I personally think he holds it on too high of a pedestal, but many of his points are still valid.
     
  15. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Gold Member

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    I would have thought Dennis Kucinich was a far more appealing candidate being a Democratic libertarian. Ron Paul is a chump with few redeeming qualities.
     
  16. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    Without a doubt! :thumbsup: Shame Kucinich hasn't a hope in hell!
     
  17. Bajeda

    Bajeda Super Moderator Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I feel that Kucinich would also fit into that grouping.


    It is doubtful that he could achieve a full withdrawal within a 12 month time frame, nor would I consider it advisable. Iraq is still fractured and weakened, and the US needs to encourage a multilateral discourse on Iraq's future and help build the political infrastructure for the state to survive. Depending on how things go this year, maybe it would include Iran. Whatever the case, an abrupt pullout would induce chaos in Iraq and heighten stability in the region, threatening our already weakened economy should oil prices react accordingly. I would agree that the US should withdraw its troops in the near future, but it has to be tempered, and matched by enhanced regional and intrastate cooperation. Rash policy changes made in response to domestic sentiments could end up doing as much damage as the invasion itself, and touch much closer to home too. Some politicians appear more trustworthy than others, but keep in mind that they may not be able to hold their promises if the circumstances don't permit them to.


    Its sad, many people I've talked to haven't even heard of him yet they say they are following the election campaign. I don't know if its the media coverage overall or if they don't watch or pay attention to any of the debates.
     
  18. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Gold Member

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    Ron Paul's hardly setting the world alight either though.
     
  19. Shiacmkmleer

    Shiacmkmleer Titanium Member

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    10% in Iowa? With the amount of media coverage he receives compared to McCain and his 13% that ain't bad. Watch today. NH is a more libertarian state... Is he going to win?? I doubt it. But this grass roots movement is huge and has only gotten bigger and bigger.
    The media has hated him so far and he just keeps going and going. I know the tone on this board has been, at least with the veteran members , to believe that change can not come around through voting and that all of America's citizens are just sheep who don't want to hear the truth. But Ron Paul will shatter your world view, everyone is coming out of the cracks for him and damn it y'all should to if you really want change.
     
  20. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Gold Member

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    He opposes universal healthcare, the separation of church and state and the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Don't be fooled by his perfect impression of functional state government. He's a conman.