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An Analysis of MDMA-induced Neurotoxicity

Discussion in 'Pharmacology' started by rocknroll714, May 20, 2009.

  1. rocknroll714

    rocknroll714 Newbie

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    I wrote it.

    Still need to add a few refs. Critiques and comments are welcome and appreciated.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  2. Greenport

    Greenport Palladium Member

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    There should be some stuff included on reducing or preventing any potential neurotoxicity. The paper's abit hard for swiM to follow completely but swiM gets the jist of it. Good job tho, accurate detailed information with references.
     
  3. rocknroll714

    rocknroll714 Newbie

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    It's more directed towards scientists and not really towards your typical recreational user. I just wanted to put all the current studies together into one general read. Protection from the neurotoxicity of MDMA for normal recreational users could be a good subject for another article though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2012
  4. Synchronium

    Synchronium Silver Member

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    Really good article.

    The first sentence of your conclusion seems a little clunky.

    Try something like:

    Also, a reference for the following would be cool:

     
  5. rocknroll714

    rocknroll714 Newbie

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    It's more directed towards scientists and not really towards your typical recreational user. I just wanted to put all the current studies together into one general read. Protection from the neurotoxicity of MDMA for normal recreational users could be a good subject for another article though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2012
  6. psychotropicon

    psychotropicon Silver Member

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    SwIm thought that was a very good technical overview of MDMA pharmacology. Stimulates those just curious (and those impacted) to learn/research more about more effective MIN mitigation, both prior to, during and after exposure.

    Well expressed.
     
  7. DiDia42413

    DiDia42413 Newbie

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    Yea very nice article and a sound theory. I would have to respectfully disagree about even trying to build the illusion that one could even make MDMA "safe" or even remotly close to clinical use. I mean one would be damaging axons everytime MDMA is taken and thats not even takeing into account the fact that molly powder (pure mdma) is almost impossible to find unless you make it yourself. I mean now were not even talking about the damage from the oxidative stress from the dopamine, but, the possiblity of seritonin syndrom among other irreparable damage cause by street mixed drugs. I love the idea man I mean who wouldn't but i cant bring myself to even slightly admit that MDMA is safe under any circumstances.
     
  8. NeuroChi

    NeuroChi is not his mind Staff Member

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    Very interesting article. If you were able to write a summary like that for other drugs as well, I am positive it would be very much appreciated. It is clear and concise, and much easier to follow for someone with just a basic understanding of neurochemistry. :thumbsup:

    From your list here, how effective are Antioxidants vs. COX inhibitors vs. MAO-B inhibitors?
    It seems that the most readily available substances on that list are the antioxidants like ALA and vitamin c, and ibuprofen, aspirin and 5-HTP. Would this combination effectively reduce MIN?

    Now I'm off to look for a natural source of MAO-B inhibitor... :cool:
     
  9. NeuroChi

    NeuroChi is not his mind Staff Member

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    Rocknroll, what kind of doses of MDMA are you referring to in your statement from the article here?

    What kind of dose would you suggest it required, of for example Selegiline (MAO-B Inhibitor) and Ibuprofen (COX Inhibitor)?
     
  10. NeuroChi

    NeuroChi is not his mind Staff Member

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    For archiving purposes:

    Note, I have not verified or supported any of the above claims.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  11. Piano_man

    Piano_man Newbie

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    Re:future prospects.

    I envisage a cocktail of serotonin receptor subtype agonists/antagonists ( possibly coupled with a stimulant and/or other drugs) as a possible way forward. Oxytocin agonists would also be a good place to investigate. It could just be my cynicism, but I don't think analogues of mdma will lead anywhere.
     
  12. Crazy Insane Sanity

    Crazy Insane Sanity Gold Member

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    Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    Found this quote on another page...

    They Cited the following sources for their information on the claim that intracranial injection eliminates neurotoxicity:

    My question is what could be the cause of this? How could it possibly be that MDMA is only neurotoxic to the brain before it crosses the blood-brain barrier?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
  13. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    Swim don`t know the answer because Swim-San is not a Fan of this Drug,
    but maybe the link will answer the question?

    http://www.neurotransmitter.net/mdmametabolites.html

    Do swiny really want to do that? :confused:
    Thats scary, why not spend some extra money and buy real MDMA.?
     
  14. Crazy Insane Sanity

    Crazy Insane Sanity Gold Member

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    Re: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    who said anything about trying it? why can't i just be trying to learn about the pharmacology of the drug? why would anyone think i want to drill a hole in my skull to make XCT safe? that's a little ridiculous...

    don't get me wrong, i'm greatful for your help...your contribution is definitely relevant. i'm just sick of people thinking i'm going to try everything i ask about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  15. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    I am sorry, but floating around in a Drug-Forum always make me suspicious :confused: that people do a lot of crazy things :laugh:

    But that Web-Page has a lot of good information!

    Sorry one more time! :)
     
  16. Crazy Insane Sanity

    Crazy Insane Sanity Gold Member

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    Re: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    It's cool. I'm glad we had a chance to discuss the stupidity it would involve to actually try this on yourself because, like you said, people do some crazy shit! Sorry if I was a bit snappy, I wrote that post first thing in the morning and I was a little off guard when I read that part about Swim trying it (thought you were talking about me for some reason...like I said it was early). :)

    And yea, that web page was really informative, I can't thank you enough for the source, but I wonder how it's metabolized differently in the brain, but still seemingly has the same effect? I was just hoping to get a collective effort going on figuring out possibilities for what would cause this.

    Crazy Insane Sanity added 15 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

    Well I feel completely retarded, as the answer to my question can be found on the page I quoted...Sorry for wasting everyones intellect to point out an interesting study on the neurotoxicity of MDMA. :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  17. slicedmind

    slicedmind Titanium Member

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    Re: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    Don't beat yourself up :p

    On a slight aside, the article suggests that neurotoxic metabolites are a product of CYPD450s.
    This suggests that ingestion as a route of administration may lead to greater neurotoxicity than other routes, through the mechanism of first-pass metabolism: this is where blood supplying the digestive system enters the hepatic portal system, taking it through the liver before entering the wider circulation.
    This would mean MDMA would meet metabolic enzymes before reaching the brain, reducing the levels of bioavailable MDMA and increasing the levels of potentially neurotoxic metabolite.
    This would mean a greater dose would be required to boost levels of bioavailability for maximum recreational potential, but this would also increase the levels of neurotoxic metabolite.

    These cycles are vicious.

    Insufflation on the other hand transfers the drug directly to the brain's blood supply, reducing the size of dose needed, therefore decreasing neurotoxicity.
     
  18. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Re: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    That's an excellent observation! This indicates that there may be safer routes of administration of MDMA. Spread the word! :)
     
  19. slicedmind

    slicedmind Titanium Member

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    Re: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    SWIM's Gonna look through some literature before making too many claims, the article suggests that there might be a link, but would like to see if there has been any research done which backs up/refutes this observation. Will report findings :)
     
  20. slicedmind

    slicedmind Titanium Member

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    Re: Question about MDMA neurotoxicity

    Hmmm, after searching google (no more medline/science direct access *sob*), SWIM can't find anything to really back that up. It's based on reasonable (or at least SWIM thinks so) assumptions, but alas, no proof to be found in the literature out there.

    Perhaps this is because there is no animal model of insufflation?

    A cohort study of MDMA users favouring different routes of administration would probably be the best kind of study to highlight any differences between administration routes, if anyone wants to give PubMed a proper search (or conduct a study themselves :p)