Any Poisonous Fly Agaric Lookalikes ?

Discussion in 'Amanita' started by mikey york, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. mikey york

    mikey york Newbie

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    Does anybody know if their are any poisonous fly agaric lookalikes?.


    Ive seen a mushroom near my house in Englandthat fits the description ( big [well mine is big'ishbut ive seen bigger ones around it],deep red [sometimes orange or mixed] dome cap with white warts, cap opens out(parasol)white gills,thick white stem). Theseshrooms don't have alot of warts maybe 20-50 per cap.They are growing under somesilver birch trees.I dont think their can be many more mushrooms that look like these do, but i have read things saying that these mushrooms are easy to mistake for otherdeadlyshrooms. Is this true?
     
  2. polloloco001

    polloloco001 Gold Member

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  3. mikey york

    mikey york Newbie

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    Ive seen pictures of Muscaria and friends, but ive never seen a picture of a poisonous mushroom lookin like the classic red, white spotstoadstool.All the good Amantias seem to look similarwith different colour caps.The one iv'e seen doe's look classic,but im not sure if their is another 'twin' mushroom in England i need to be aware of.As i say i have never seen a pic of one,not even in the places where you would expect to find one..
     
  4. Jatelka

    Jatelka Psychedelic Shepherdess Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Please don't try any wild mushroom unless you are 100% certain of it's identity. Even experienced mushroom hunters have been caught out. Best way of learning is to go out in the field with an expert. Second best is looking at books or on the internet. Having said that here's a link for a fairly cool website (although search engine doesn't seem to work very well):


    www.rogersmushrooms.com


    Be safe [​IMG]
     
  5. mikey york

    mikey york Newbie

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    Ifully understand that you should never go picking and eating random mussies.I guess the question im asking is how easy is it to be 100% when identifying amantia muscaria.


    Ive had alot of people say"be careful"(which is sound advice),one personhas said"if you have any mushroom thats big, red, with white spots" (any that fits the description)"it will be safe to consume",He soundedas if he's hadsome experience with this shroom.Nobody has said "This mushroom is poisonous, and it looks just like amantia muscaria". Im starting to lean towards the idea that these shroomswould be very difficult to mix up with some dodgy other shroom.


    thank you all for your replies [​IMG]
     
  6. mikey york

    mikey york Newbie

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    Rogers Mushroom is a good site. It saysmuscaria isone of the easiest mushroomsto identify,this i didnt see before now.It also calls them deadly, so im one step foward, two steps back, for now anyway!
     
  7. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    I can't recall any fatalities directly attributed to the A. Muscaria or A. Pantherina. However I have heard a few tales of people feeling very sick. This seems to stem from the ibotenic acid metabolizing into muscimol in vivo. This can be reduced as a possibility by drying the mushroom first. Also note that the amount of active agents in each mushroom can vary widely - so always start with a small amout to gauge the effect.


    I noted one very disconcerting hybrid that led me to abandon collecting this species altogether where I live. I saw a typical A. Muscaria growing out of it's base AS WAS A TYPICAL A. VERNA! The A. Verna is all white and smooth - and contains alpha & beta amanitoxins. These are the ones that will kill you.


    "There are old mushroom hunters. And there are brave mushroom hunters. But there are no old and brave mushroom hunters."
     
  8. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    I can find a couple of references to fatal intoxications with amanita muscaria: Spoerge DG, Hall AH, Plants and mushrooms of abuse. 1990. Benjamin DR, Mushroom poisoning in infants and children; the amanita pantarina/muscaria group.1992. To me, that does not mean much as they are only a few. Misidentification may account for them. But intoxications with severe symptoms like convulsions, ataxy and severemuscle spasms have been reported frequently. Hyperkinetic behaviour, non-responsiveness to external stimuli &myocloniahave also been reported. So, my opinion is not deadly, but definitively dangerous.
     
  9. mikey york

    mikey york Newbie

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    Im thinking im not really trusting this mushroom, at least not the ones i can find.When i went back to look today, in exactly the same place, i found a couple of young mussies that look the same as they did before, only without any spots..im getting confused !


    the hybridized shroom sounds worrying, wouldn't you expect to see a mix of both characteristics in one shroom rather than two shrooms from the same base. could the dodgy one be parasitic?


    Ihave a friend whowas considering smoking thesemushrooms, if he stuffed up, and ended smoking some amantin toxins would he still get verydead.
     
  10. Micklemouse

    Micklemouse Platinum Member & Advisor

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    The Silver Birch is the clincher in your description Mikey - Fly Agarics do have a tendency to grow around Silver Birch. Everything else in your description points towards 'em also, and nothing that I know of or can find looks quite ike a mature amanita muscaria. But, as people have posted above this is a mushroom to be cautious around - one reason a certain mouse has never tried this is because there are so many tales about ther 'safest' way to prepare them, usually hearsay, and no two methods alike. Another reason is that a good few people he's known who have travelled with this Shroom haven't fully come back,if you know what I mean. It's called 'Fly' for a very good reason, which is nothing to do with bluebottles, and more to do with the fact that muscaria and it's components can take you to some very distant places! And it could make a person very sick at the same time!

    Do your homework, and check your shrooms against as many images as you can, and read up as much as you can about the constituents and effects of this Shroom especially.

    As Nagognog said, "There are old mushroom hunters. And there are brave mushroom hunters. But there are no old and brave mushroom hunters."

    Be safe!
     
  11. mikey york

    mikey york Newbie

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    Between this forum and others i think ive now reached some sort offamiliararity with this shroom, and it dosen't seem too bad as long as its prepared right andused sensibly. When smoking it, there is a split decision as to whether it actually works or not. Seen as this is legal i will no doubt get back to uwith that one.


    For now ill just say thank you all for your help..
     
  12. Each Hit

    Each Hit Gold Member

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    does smoking mush really work?? i thought most of the active substances are destroyed by the heat. not to mention the taste...
     
  13. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    That depends on what you mean by mush? Psilocybe mushrooms? Amanita? Smoking amanita mushrooms works. But amanita is not like psilocybe.
     
  14. mikey york

    mikey york Newbie

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    Ive done some more searching on this mushroom, looking for poisonous lookalikes. The only mushrooms'I' have seen that looklikeAmanita muscaria (red variety) are, Amanita Caesara, Which is edible and suppost to be very nice, and Amanita Parcivolvata, which can give you nasty gastris distress. None of these mushrooms grow in England. So im still wondering why i read so many things warning about how easy Muscaria is to mis-identify. I know some amanitas produce deadly poisons, but i also know Amanita Muscaria is one of the easiest of all mushrooms to identify, Especially here in the UK. So i dont see why people need to feel so scared when picking this shroom. Surelywith abit of common sense and the use of our eyes picking this mushroom isquitesafe.
     
  15. JDreaming

    JDreaming R.I.P. Gold Member R.I.P.

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    It's probably pretty difficult to dangerously misidentify these, I've looked at pictures of the psychedelic ones vs. the poisonous... most of the nastiest amanitas, i.e. death cup, destroying angel etc. are solid color.... mostly all white. If it doesn't have a colorful cap with weird white polka dots on it, leave it alone.
     
  16. micro_mikey

    micro_mikey Newbie

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    I wouldn't risk fly agarnic, some of those lookalikes are deadly and there is no cure from what i understand.
     
  17. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    the warts on aminitas are from a the veil that covers them when there just sprouting from the ground as the skin breaks it leaves the behind in some places that form the warts,after a rain its common for these spots to wash off
     
  18. tiojio

    tiojio Newbie

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    i dont understand why Fly Argic's are that hard to ID.

    Amanita Caesara and Amanita Parcivolvata still look very different to fly argic's.

    Caesara is flat and doesnt show warts but is still red. Parcivolvata has a different shape and looks "dwarfed" compared to Fly Argic's.

    google image them.

    every autumn I get some Fly Argic's growing on a tree up the road. SWIM never knew they were abusable until he read here. despite these deadly "look alikes", i am just about 95% sure they are Fly Argics even tho I havent seen them for a year, but because they only grow around this tree, have deep red colouring, warts and arnt the same shape as thoes 2. however I have never seen any different mushies growing around that tree.

    even tho...still be careful. you might want to check pictures of them on the net and compare, if not get somebody who knows what they r lookin for to have a look. chances are, they will continue to grow there year after year so once u got it right you are still probs right for ever.
     
  19. AetherPoison

    AetherPoison Newbie

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    if you saw similar looking mushrooms with the only difference being the spots removed, they most likely got washed off in the rain, as that is fairly common
     
  20. allenadale

    allenadale Newbie

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    I have never run into any poisonous lookalikes in his years of foraging.

    Growing on silver birch? I don't see how it could be anything but...