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Question - Any way of lowering tolerance beside taking a break?

Discussion in 'Methamphetamine' started by mkolarek, May 19, 2017.

  1. mkolarek

    mkolarek Lonely Tweaker Silver Member

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    For some time now, I've been limiting my use to just one capsule (oral) per day. That way my performance is peaking during the hours I usually work and I start coming down near the evening and then have no trouble going to sleep come midnight. I find this to be the best way to have some control over my use and make my stash lasts longer. I've been trying to keep my dosage the same, but lately, sometimes I have to re-dose smaller amount during the day because I start coming down sooner when I still have work to do.

    Is there any way of lowering tolerance other than taking a break?

    I always take a short break when I run out of gear before getting refill, but that's only 2-3 days tops which doesn't do much (when I'm short on cash it's longer, but that hasn't been the case lately). Also for the past few weeks I finally have some work to do that actually pays, but it's pretty mentally demanding (programming/developing) and I can't really do it without meth, so some longer break in term of weeks is not really in the picture.

    I think I read somewhere that DXM lowers tolerance to meth. Is that true? Are there any other ways?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Young and Restless

    Young and Restless Newbie

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    I am facing the same issue myself lately. If DXM does in fact affect your tolerance In some way, then we are in luck. I'm gonna extract some delsym this weekend and give it a go.
     
  3. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    When you keep blasting those receptors, the cells adapt, seeking normalcy. The only way to restore them is to stop and wait.

    You could take something else to make you fucked-up on TOP of that, but that's all it'd be. Otherwise, the person who discovers a way would be wealthier than all the kings . . . .
     
  4. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    You should refer to Waitin for the fall's posts pinned in this forum. The guys is a meth guru! I would highly recommend buying DOPA Mucuna,90 Veg Capsules and L-tyrosine 500mg,120 Capsules to help replace all the dopamine you are using up. Plus there seems to be no getting around the abstinence period. Wilbur will soon try to shoot a small dosage of say .05 grams a day for four days and then try a few days rest. He's sure it is also up to an individuals DNS but it is would advise you to listen to the experts and take a five day breather and then start all over again. I plan to begin documenting his experiments for other users to get ideas of their own. And maybe we can get an intelligent conversation started on how each of us is coping with are varied regimens of administration of various ROA's! Hope you keep posting your findings!
     
  5. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    Agree with checking out WFTF, but want to point out:
    The idea with tyrosine and other supplements is that they're precursors to dopamine synthesis.

    But you don't really "run out" when you have tolerance (and a hamburger should provide plenty anyway); your brain adjusts receptor density to compensate for all the shouting going on. It'll take as long to restore them to what they were.

    And don't forget, you've got two other neurotransmitter systems directly effected.
     
  6. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    Forgive me for being ignorant but what other neurotransmitter systems are involved?
     
  7. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    Just got this off some info look up. So looks like there are four systems actually...

    Disrupted communication between the brain and the body can have serious effects to ones health both physically and mentally. Depression, anxiety and other mood disorders are thought to be directly related to imbalances with neurotransmitters. The four major neurotransmitters that regulate mood are Serotonin, Dopamine, GABA and Norepinephrine.
    When operating properly, your nervous system has natural checks and balances in the form of inhibitory (calming) and excitatory (stimulating) neurotransmitters.

    Thank you Scrofula. Learning more and more each day from this site. It's awesome!!!:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2017
  8. mkolarek

    mkolarek Lonely Tweaker Silver Member

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    Norepinephrine and serotonin, I think.

    Thanks for answers, I will check the WFTF's posts for the supplements.

    About that break; I know that when I don't use for five days at least, my tolerance goes way down and it takes some time (with oral ROA) for it to build up again. But as I'm pretty busy these days, I'm looking for some alternatives to longer breaks. Anything that would at least slow down the build up speed.

    EDIT: How do people with ADHD on Adderall/Ritalin manage to keep their dosage the same?
     
  9. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    @JD Texarkana
    Yeah, @mkolarek is right: meth, amph, and coke are all DA, NE, and HT (serotonin aka hydroxytryptamine) effective reuptake inhibitors. People focus on dopamine because of addiction, but you're (I'm) throwing them all out of whack with repeated use.

    Just something to remember when you crash. We might treat the bad moods better with other things.
     
  10. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    Here is a little research I did today. Hope it helps. Just remember if you are going to try many of them it will cost you. Possible too much? So try two or three and see if that helps.

    GABA


    What is GABA? GABA is Gamma-aminobutyric acid, a neurotransmitter and the cornerstone of the inhibitory (calming) system in the body; controlling the action of epinephrine, norepinephrine, and dopamine.
    Inhibitory neurotransmitters and their receptors reduce excitability in the brains neurons and increase the likelihood that an incoming signal will be terminated.
    GABA can be viewed as the "braking system" in the realm of neurotransmitters.
    GABA has little to no side effects. Some sleepiness has been reported.
    I can not see much use of this that would promote a good euphoric rush. Possibly even stifling it. But possibly good for the come down.
    Check out Kavinace, a GABA supplement that contains Phenibut. Check out Travacor, a GABA supplement that contains Taurine, 5-HTP, and Theanine!.All precursors of GABA.

    Norepinephrine

    Norepinephrine, according to the Franklin Institute, works like adrenalin, a hormone, to cause arousal of the nervous system, helping you stay alert and motivated.
    Take supplemental phenylalanine in tablet or capsule form, according to manufacturer's directions.
    Norepinephrine and dopamine - Low levels of both of these neurotransmitters are associated with depression, and supplemental amino acids like phenylalanine can help reduce depression caused by deficiencies of these neurotransmitters.

    Acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR) is an amino acid that increases both mental and physical energy. It acts a powerful antioxidant, protecting your brain from free radical damage.
    ALCAR is a precursor of acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter of memory and learning. It also increases the neurotransmitters serotonin and norepinephrine, both of which play a role in depression.
    One study found that acetyl-l-carnitine stabilizes tau proteins which produce the brain tangles believed to cause Alzheimer’s.
    It increases the insulin sensitivity of brain cells to help them utilize blood glucose, the brain’s main fuel source.
    There’s evidence that it may prevent brain damage from excess alcohol intake.
    Acetyl-l-Carnitine Dosage:
    The generally recommended dose ranges from 630 to 2,500 mg per day and up to 4,000 mg for treating Alzheimer’s patients.

    Dopamine

    Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that promotes enjoyment and interest in life. Containing 15% L-DOPA (the immediate precursor of dopamine), NOW® DOPA Mucuna provides the body with what it needs to make this important neurotransmitter. Mucuna pruriens, commonly known as Velvet Bean, has been used in the traditional Ayurvedic system in India for thousands of years.
    Mucuna pruriens, a tropical legume also known as velvet bean, has been used by ancient healers and is making waves in the scientific community.
    In Mucuna pruriens, levodopa, or L-dopa, is one of these compounds. This bioactive chemical is a precursor to several neurotransmitters, including adrenaline, noradrenaline, and dopamine.

    Increase Tyrosine
    Of the chemicals that make up dopamine, none are more important than tyrosine. In fact, tyrosine is considered the building block of dopamine.The truth is, tyrosine must be bonded with another molecule to make it past the blood-brain barrier, so tyrosine in itself isn’t capable of making significant impacts on the brain. However, through natural digestion and regulating healthy bodily function, it can assist the brain in having to work less on fixing an unhealthy system, which in turn can help increase the potential for dopamine and dopamine related good feelings.

    I may add something for serotonin later but out of time right now. Maybe food during recovery.I am not sure that serotonin would help the high but possibly limit it.

    Any thoughts are welcome?
    We can use healthier and live a bit longer, perhaps reducing harm to our brains.
    As always I suggest reading the Meth Medicine Cabinet post. This just adds to WFTF's post hopefully.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2017 ---
    Ran out of time to edit. The above should read "Maybe good for recovery." not "food for recovery". Thanks!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2017 at 4:20 PM
  11. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    Caution! You might wonder, why not just eat straight dopamine? Stuff like it and GABA can't get into your brain by themselves. If you take straight GABA, which is available, you'll take a huge dose of systemic GABA, and get a little panic attack when you start hyperventilating. You'll be OK, your body's compensating for the bad signal and it'll go away pretty fast, but it's not what you'd expect.

    (In the same way, all these chemicals do different things in your body and brain (why they're separated). Like histamine makes your body itch but your mind awake; serotonin modulates mood and perception, keeps your poop moving . . . .)
     
  12. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    Yes I was unable to find anything that would add to the rush. It even inhibits dopamine, Norepinephrine, and epinephrine. I now can't even imagine how it could be useful in the recovery phase, either.
     
  13. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    Do you mean GABA? Well, my comment was really just about the supplement. I think any reasonable person who understood that GABA is a kind of neural dimmer switch would see the supplement of GABA itself, with "calm" on the label, and expect to be made calm. Even when I knew maybe only 1% would wind up in my brain, I still took some long long ago, and took MORE because I knew hardly any would cross into my brain. And was pretty surprised when I hyperventilated.

    So that was mainly a caution to anyone out shopping, be prepared that you might briefly be the opposite of calm with GABA supplements, so don't take too much at a time.

    BUT, GABAergic drugs like benzos and alcohol, ARE helpful to a lot of people after stimulant use, if nothing else than to help them sleep. And that's because
    . Or at least, works counter to them. After the comedown they might help with anxiety and stress from withdrawal, the horror at seeing your meth fantasies in the bright daylight of sobriety.
     
  14. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    :cool:Yes but how close to getting high, time frame I mean to say in like hours can you use this, expecting it to be out of your system? And if you use it consistently daily on recuperation days how long do you stop before getting high?
    I learned from experience that you can barely get high after taking one antidepressant the day before. So that is why I did not research serotonin, it seems to damn you from getting that initial euphoric rush. I know it does with coke as well. I suppose you could do enough to counteract it. But that is counter the initial post question. So I would not take any antidepressants while planning to use. Ever that I would know of. Except maybe one on first day of recovery to help sleep. But GABA should cover that.
    Right now I am interested in learning a bit more about Acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR) that claims to increase both mental and physical energy. I would certainly like to hear any input on that substance! Especially since I also found this claim: It also increases the neurotransmitters serotonin and norepinephrine, both of which play a role in depression. It seems to have a paradoxical relationship with serotonin and norepinephrine supporting both of these neurotransmitters equally. Since I assume it could help put the brakes on norepinephrine which causes arousal of the nervous system, helping you stay alert and motivated. I think ALCAR promotes a balance between norepinephrine and serotonin. This might be fine for a normal person but unwanted in the addict/recreational user! I may be wrong though. But if you take L-Phenylalanine who would need Acetyl-l-carnitine? L-Phenylalanine would seem to be enough to enhance norepinephrine production.
    So far the first two supplements I would consume before, during, and after getting high are L-dopa Mucuna pruriens and L-tyrosine. Then maybe some GABA on the last day of binge maybe a bit longer, after getting high, the answer is still out on this one, and maybe an antidepressant. I think this will be the end of my research and good to look at in the near future.:cool:

    Would still like the answer to my above question if anyone has any idea? No big hurry though. Time, time, time, is on my side... OH yes it is!
     
  15. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    That could be bad if you have a reaction while you're tweaked. I don't mean hurt, just panicked. I'd look for some benzos (annoying when folks make that sound like it's so easy), or get some nice booze, keeping in mind you prob. don't want to get drunk, and your stomach is probably empty, you'll be dehydrated. Consider GABA down the road, when you've quit taking stims and still feel anxious.


    Consider it carefully. As in, consider the reasons you take them in the first place.
    Personally I have not noticed an effect with meth and sertraline (Zoloft), which is serotonin-specific. I've gotten a good meth rush while on it, and not much while off--I stopped two months ago as the meth was ramping up, not sure if that was a good idea. I stopped so as not to dampen any potential positive interpersonal effects. But I get brain zaps lately and I'm still severely labile with emotion. For just a weekend, it might be OK.

    But anti-depressants have different kinetics and target different systems, so it can get complex. Stimulants also seem to work through the transporter by reversing it, but also causing release of transmitters in addition, which is probably behind the stuff we "feel". Each transporter and release and drug and pharm will have different competitive interactions, that we can't predict (Pharma won't share their data freely).

    There's a paper on this site that describes blunting the physio stim effects completely with an NE reuptake inhibitor (that I hadn't heard of, not bupropion). I don't know what that would do for you, but it'd be addictive. Might shorten the duration of meth to two hours.


    I saw my uncle die from Parkinson's, and am amazed that L-Dopa is OTC. He took it as therapy, to be clear, and he did it with carbidopa, and other drugs. It's the case of a precursor that DOES cross into your brain (dopamine will not). It's the one on your list I'd be most uncomfortable with, because it is known to have effects on your brain. It does stuff. It exists there anyway, it's just a question of dosage and effects, and I'll keep looking at that. I can say, take it with some B-vitamins (you need B-6). (Not sure why they qualify the source--probably ground-up mucuna, because pure L-DOPA would be controlled? ETA: yes, Rx only, the extract is OTC, so caution again)

    For amino acids like tyrosine and phenylalanine, they're precursors, yes, but they're also food. There's phenylalanine in your diet coke. If they do provide an effect, it'd be for pre- and continual-use, and consider just eating some protein, for $$.

    Beware of phrases like that, because nothing just "increases" transmitters, and wouldn't necessarily accomplish anything if it did. Biologically it's the wishy-washy term of a marketing team.

    Carnitine is, you might see if you look around, big with the GNC crowd, or was a long time ago. I remember it as a thing that helps move acetyl-CoA around your cells. No clue how it would effect transmitters, but I'll check.

    But really, the advice I'd give about this stuff and supplements, after I said "UNREGULATED billion dollar profit-making industry full of scammers", would be:
    If there was something in the supplement aisle that made you "feel" anything, it would be sold out, and banned/scheduled, before you could get to the store.
    If it had clinical efficacy, it'd be in the aisle with the drugs.

    Mostly I don't want anybody to get ripped off or hurt.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2017 at 8:19 AM ---
    Just thought of a indirect dopamine-releasing agent that might potentiate a meth rush when used during or right after doses.

    I'll give you clues for now, because I'll want a little do-re-mi if it works, and some patents.
    It's a legal plant extractive too, with trace amounts found in tomatoes. It has structural similarity to niacin, and targets systems that involve choline, and carnitine. A metabolite was once developed as an anti-depressant but never got to market. It is itself a parasympathomimetic stimulant and there is data that strongly suggests nootropic effects.
     
  16. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    One last thought: you left out a lot of serotonin stuff, but everybody's favorite is 5-hydroxytryptophan. You can buy it all over. Well, it comes from tryptophan, an amino acid, that for some reason people still blame for Thanksgiving drowsiness (it's all the starch causing hyperglycemia and/or booze).

    So really, your supplements include all three aromatic amino acids, which are found in all meat. If you wanted to boost just amino acids, there are better sources: like Bragg's, or yeast sources, like Vegemite, Marmite, or even cheap bulk lab supplies for media prep if you needed like 100 pounds for a party.
     
  17. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    Lol..I already can't keep my weight UP now being straight. Am stuck at 145 lbs and can't get any bigger it seems. Drinking ice cream protein shakes and eating six times a day helps, somewhat. Was thinking of trying to eat yeast with peanut butter. Already taking supplements to help with this. Every time I work out I drop 5 lbs. Doctors can't figure it out so what the hell? I might as well just waste away a happy contented addict! No actually when I have binged I only drop 10 lbs. usually. But supplements are already a part of my daily regimen so this is an important subject for me, in case you have not noticed by now. Thanks for all your responses. I skipped 5-htp due to the tryptophan link to drowsiness.
    And who on this earth eats regularly? Not me straight or partying. If it wasn't for ice cream protein shakes I would be even thinner than now! I could eat fast food EVERY day of my life and never gain a pound. I keep thinking I will broaden with age or my metabolism slow down a little. Hell it is no problem for me to stay awake for two days most times. I must have supplements. The more the better. I always try to eat right but when I can't I depend on the dreaded protein bars, cheap carbs with high calories and low nutritive value, and then the supplements and vitamins to help me out.
    Really some of us NEED supplements and organic herbs and vitamins to keep up with societies demands already. And to stay healthy. I am currently off my meds...Elavil, K-Pro, and another antidepressant and feel great. Just wanting to get high some time soon. A little run down at times. A little meth will help with that! Just want to stay healthy while doing the dew.
     
  18. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    You mean my diabetic metformin-eating GI-problem self's best friends? Fisticuffs at dawn, sir. I'll still be up.

    I wasn't trying to knock supplements, just meant to say: there are supplements that are regulated, and then a lot that aren't, and just careful with hype, watch for scammers and try not to spend too much (and Vitamin A doesn't have the same effect in a gel cap that it does in a carrot, but you knew that). I figure the food-related stuff is more food than "supplement." And if you're already dropping so much cash at the Vitamin Shoppe, it couldn't hurt to consolidate three separate amino acid supplements into a single spread of marmite on your peanut butter toast or spray some Bragg's on your protein bar. (Oh, and I still think you get all you need, excess even, from a single hamburger patty).

    Really, though, tough break on the metabolism, and good you've seen some docs. Some people would be less sympathetic (not me, I trend toward skinny), and if you could figure out how you do it, there's a bigger fortune than supplements and rehabs to be made.
     
  19. JD Texarkana

    JD Texarkana Newbie

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    Lets not get crazy now their bud. No one that I know wants to shorten their high duration. I can't see any use for that as of now. But I never say never! Perhaps I will research this when needed. Thanks for the info!
     
  20. Scrofula

    Scrofula Newbie

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    But wait, just how long IS the meth HIGH? Duration of effects might be all night into next day, but you wouldn't say you were "high" the whole time, right?

    Honestly, it sounds more like cocaine. Although, I got more wired on that too.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2017 at 8:43 PM ---
    AND I can't believe I didn't remember to mention, because I hadn't bothered to even check, and had run out--I do take a supplement specifically for meth use. Vitamin D, which I usually scoff at, seems to have a protective effect on DA and HT neurons, might even lessen addiction. There's a summary in the "studies" section.

    It won't lower tolerance though.