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Arguments presented for/against the use of Adderall

Discussion in 'Adderall' started by Megan288, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Stepin Fetchit

    Stepin Fetchit Banned

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    Now domt get mad, Megan. I agree at I am defending Adderall, but that's different than being "defensive." your pout of view is actually extremely valid, because you used Adderall, and Inhave acknowledged that.

    The reason that I'm probing you so much regarding these side-effects you mentioned,mis because it doesn't sound like your behavior was altered to in any negative way. It's ok to take amdrugmas it's prescribed and feel better but that doesn't make young drug addict. Sometimes relationships don't work out, but blaming the drug doesn't make any sense to me, especially since everything else in your life seemed to be going very well.

    You list this laundry list of side effect that's you claimed you had, but you never abused the drug. You also mention things like "Adderall made me happy,must it was false happiness." Adderall when taken as prescribed does punt make you happier; you may have been happier because the drug epwas working and you could concentrate, but thats a good thing! You say it helped you socially, which it will do, especially to people with ADD, because they can have trouble interacting.

    Sometimes things happen in our lives that we cant control, and thosemthings cammake us feel bad, even if we are doing what we are supposed to do and even when our mental health is good. But that doesn't mean that a drug you had been taking over a three year period was the culprit. And "not having time" to take antidepressants when youre clearly depressed puzzles me.

    I just think you are blaming the wrong thing for some things that happened in your life. I think since you couldn't control them, you are blaming the drug because doing so makes you feel like you did have control over those events. But a drug simply isn't that powerful. I could see if you dropped out, started partying, fell im with the tweaker crowd, but you graduated at the top of your class. I just don't get it.
     
  2. chrischerokee

    chrischerokee Silver Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    That is incorrect. Addiction is a behavior my friend and behavior can be controlled. I personally stop taking my daily dose of adderall once every 3 months for two weeks straight and monitor my conditions. No sort of side effects or withdrawal symptoms occur. Please tell me where you pulled this information from other than the insight of your own opinion.

    As to the second part, I will quote myself as a rebuttal:
     
  3. Megan288

    Megan288

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    I wasn't talking to you stephin, I was talking to chris up there.

    Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

    I'm always mad on adderall, and irritated. And I rub off on people and make them feel bad and that reaally upsets me. ESPECIALLY when I haven't taken my adderall.

    Megan288 added 4 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

    well... I didn't graduate at the top of my class. I took on too many things at once. I had a bf who I was suspicious of. I think he wanted me to fail out. HE may have been a narcissist which is the only reason I know what that term even means. I didn't fail out but I stopped going to classes. I could have gone back but I was man down all summer after being on adderall for three years, breaking up with my bf who called me every day and I had to ignore it, and not being in classes anymore. I just took up a job as a kindergarten teachers aide, which I love. I still don't feel grown up or responsible as I should be. I have had some weird setbacks.

    Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

    but now I cut and glue paper with kids all day instead of taking economics classes and making a's. It's just so much. hindsight is 20/20
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  4. chrischerokee

    chrischerokee Silver Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    The above statement could be related to depression, which could be the reason you exhibit such behaviors.
     
  5. no eff eks

    no eff eks Silver Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    chris my friend... your certainty makes me want to simply ignore you... Still since we're here and all....

    Adderall is d/l-amphetamine... speed. The drug is a potent releasing agent for dopamine, as well as a re-uptake inhibitor for dopamine. This is not the only neurotransmitter amphetamine acts on, but it is the most relevant since we're talking about addiction.

    Your brain needs dopamine to function normally. It is important in experiencing pleasure and motivation to be active. When you take amphetamine for a long time your brain stops making as much dopamine... the same thing happens to people taking SSRI's except they experience serotonin depletion if they suddenly quit. It's no fun, nor is dopamine depletion.

    Now this new lower level of dopamine has your brain needing more amphetamine to stay normal. You don't get to control your brains reward mechanism consciously - it's taken care of by our friend dopamine. That's the neurotransmitter that you've been screwing with on a daily basis... and you're expecting to have the self control and self awareness to avoid addictive behaviors? How will you know if you don't?
     
  6. Megan288

    Megan288

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    if they're getting an addiction or dependency and don't even know what those two terms really mean... because they aren't experienced with drugs.. that's dangerous.
    I was very controlled. I really was. You are underestimating how naive a lot of people truly are. I really was so health conscience just for fun. amphetamines are powerful. People don't understand that. You have control over the amphetamines and have since you first took your 10 mg with a glass of water at 7:31 a.m., and then again the next day at 7:31 a.m. Only because you are informed and you know exactly what you are dealing with. As a future pharmacists it is your responsibility to look out for people who have no clue what they are taking. I'm sorry they aren't teaching you to see it that way already, but maybe that is part of the problem with the prescription drug problem in our country.

    I definitely take responsibility for myself, in fact I started out that way. But all you did was say.. oooh she abused... screw her. That's exactly what you did. That's not fair at all.
     
  7. chrischerokee

    chrischerokee Silver Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    I never said you didn't have a psychological dependence for this drug, which you stated you had. However, some people have a psychological dependence on porn, shopping, eating as a hobby, etc. These are behaviors which become part of a person's daily habits, just like adderall, in which they feel the "need" to fulfill these tasks. Having said that do you think that each person lacks the power to stop watching porn, stop shopping, or stop feasting on copious amounts of food that leads to obesity? A person does have the will power to stop and can stop if they wanted to. The weaker their mindset is, the less likely they are to stop. But realize that people do stop these needs using their own will power. And I spoke of no offense to you or anyone here. You aired out your business all on your own.
     
  8. Megan288

    Megan288

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    I appreciate your posts. I'm not mad at you. But, I could thank Adderall for allowing me to get straight A's. It did increase my quality of life. But, it makes me argue and this thread is a good example of what adderall makes me do. It's like I'm bold, brave, aggressive, assertive. I can't tell you how opposite of that I am. Adderall is a psychotropic drug so it changes my personality. And yes, you are right when you say someone told me in the beginning that it was having a bad effect on me. A therapist I used to see (and I don't want to go to one again) said that she would stay away from the meds.. and that it was a psychotropic drug and confirmed that it changed my personality when I asked her. I told her I was having trouble remembering to text people during the day because I just didn't care as much. She asked me to find those feelings. That is still almost impossible for me to do. I'm normally a pretty genuine person.. but on adderall I feel like I can't help but be very self absorbed and defensive.

    Megan288 added 2 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

    I can also just do my work and not talk to people and be quiet.. but people always talk to me so it's not an option to just smile and keep working all day. I eventually have to open my mouth and all this crazy adderall talk comes out which includes almost no empathy. I hate when someone seems upset after they've talked to me because I know it's probably the way I am on adderall, selfish and probably lacking empathy like I have without it.

    Megan288 added 8 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

    nevermind. I don't have an addictive personality. I do have a dependency on adderall. I used to do a lot on my own out of willpower and motivation. Now I need adderall to do a lot of what I used to do on my own. I haven't decided if this is a huge problem or not, yet, because I keep coming across different viewpoints. My dr.'s aware of all the things I'm experiencing. He seems to think it's not a big deal. I like my dr. I'm not saying anything against him at all. He's a primary Care physician and is calm and level headed about everything.

    Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...
    if you're experiencing psychosis side effects and developing a dependency without knowing either of those things are happening than that's a tripple threat from adderall. Things are out of control at that point. I'm not saying that happened to me, but I have heard of that happening. That kind of thing happens.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  9. chrischerokee

    chrischerokee Silver Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    I understand what you're inferring to. Where are you getting your sources from? And what study was conducted showing that the long term use of amphetamines leads to a depletion of dopamine levels, a chemical which occurs naturally in the brain? My understanding was that the injection of higher doses of amphetamines (50-100mg) simultaneously led to a long term effect where the dopamine level was depleted, but only because an extreme over stimulation of amphetamine was injected all at one time causing permanent psychosis. I would have to agree with you if SWIM injected 50-100 mg simultaneously causing an irreversible over-stimulation. Other than lab rat experiments, in which they injected the rats with 50-100 mg of amphetamine multiple times to produce these effects, can you come up with proves that this actually occurs because of the long term use of amphetamines in a person, whose only taken their prescribed dosage, in swims case 10 mg IR twice a day. A person has the potential to do that only if they take an abundant amount of amphetamine orally, such as 500 mg, allowing too much of the drug to cross the blood brain barrier causing permanent damage to dopamine levels. When taking 10 mg once a day, sometimes twice if needed, doesn't allow the drug to cross the blood brain barrier so easily. That is why the drug doesn't have a lasting effect or permanent "high" because it gets metabolized out of your system.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  10. Stepin Fetchit

    Stepin Fetchit Banned

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    Not all amphetamines "flood" your synapses with dopamine (actually, the synapses are just the mechanism by which dopamine is released). Adderall,causes more dopamine and serotonin to be released, but saying that it "floods" the CNS is inaccurate.

    Stepin Fetchit added 5 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

    People can be psychologically addicted to anything. Megan is intelligent, but doesn't quite understand the intricacies of drug addiction and drug dependence. She seems to lump all drug use, dependent, recreational, abuse, misuse, therapeutic, into the same category.

    Someone with diabetes is dependent upon their medication, but the medication helps them. I believe that Adderall was helping Megan, and I don't think that her health was adversely affected at all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  11. Stepin Fetchit

    Stepin Fetchit Banned

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    If anyone agrees with her statement about "people who don't know how to handle it, knowing absolutely nothing about drugs in the first place", should rethink their viewpoint on drugs. I thought this statement would be common sense to most people because what it's implying is if you ever find a pill on the floor and have no idea what it is, who care's just take it. If you don't know how to handle a drug, and know absolutely nothing about that drug, then YOU SHOULD NOT BE TAKING THIS DRUG.[/QUOTE]

    I actually don't think it's a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with her point, because it could mean anything. It could mean don't let people who cant read or have disabilities take drugs. I would ask her what she believes people need to know, because pharmacists and doctors DO tell patients about the prescriptions that they are taking. You don't have to know the chemical composition of every drug you take and how it affects your brain and body to take a drug. If that were true, only smart people could get prescriptions.

    Laws, including prescription drug laws, have to assume that a person will act reasonably and in heir own best interest. Adderall is dangerous if abused, yes, but it doesn't have to be abused. Common sense also dictates that if a drug is causing adverse side effects that are affecting you in a bad way, then you should stop taking it. Doctors tell you that, the warnings on the information sheet from the pharmacy tells you that, and even the commercials on tv tell you that.

    Stepin Fetchit added 7 Minutes and 12 Seconds later...

    Yeah, but not getting through to you is a little frustrating. Hopefully your psychiatrist will be able to get to the central issue that is bothering you, because it doesnt make sense to me that a student who is excelling at a top school to the extent that he refers to undergrad as a "joke" (um, yeah right) is so unmotivated about doing self-paced academic research, something that he should be excited about, that he wants to take a drug that he knows could harm him so that he will be motivated. It's not adding up.

    Stepin Fetchit added 7 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

    I agree Adderall doesn't make you mad. And again, why didnt she stop taking it if it did?

    Megan has described so many situations and behaviors that lead me to believe that she is experiencing depression. There is almost no doubt in my mind.

    Stepin Fetchit added 22 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

    You're just wrong. I'll ignore the rhetoric that you use to exaggerate the dangers of Adderall, such as calling it a "potent" releasing agent, and focus on the many incorrect statements.

    Your brain doesn't stop making as much dopamine when you use, or even abuse, amphetamines. The brain doesn't even make dopamine, your body does. Even id amphetamines are abused and dopamine is depleted, your body still makes the same amount.

    There isn't a "lower level" of dopamine released when you take a medical dose of amphetamines, because the dose is so small. Also, the medically prescribed dose of amphetamines does not interfere with the reuptake of dopamine. Long term ABUSE of amphetamines may cause some receptors to shut down, resulting in lower levels of dopamine being released.

    But when you take Adderall as prescribed, you stop feeling pleasure from the drug's effects, and you simply feel normal. That's what it's supposed to do. You aren't supposed to be feeling pleasure every time you take it. People that ABUSE it are seeking that pleasure, and end up having to take more and more to feel high, but the only thing causing them to do that is their own bad behavior.

    Also, your focus is in dopamine, but actually serotonin plays a key role, arguably the most important role, in the medical benefits of amphetamines, but you just ignore that contribution. Seratonin is what gives people a sense of well being, and if anything is causing someone to feel motivated and active, it's serotonin.

    Stepin Fetchit added 5 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

    It sounds like you quit going because the issues with your boyfriend, coupled with depression, overwhelmed you, and may have triggered other issues. This is the first time you said that Adderall made you mad at everyone, but you actually said something quite different in an earlier post. And was it Adderall that made you mad, or when you didn't take Adderall, because you sort of blamed both.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  12. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    Clearly I don't have the time to keep up with this thread as it has continued pages beyond this post, and you didn't really specify which features of a study you want, but here, if you really want to read these, or certain ones of these, and can't find a freely available copy, I'm sure someone would help you out in the thread to request articles from people with access to medline:

    Biederman, J., Spencer, T., Wilens, T., Weisler, R., Read, S., Tulloch, S., & others. (2005). Long-term safety and effectiveness of mixed amphetamine salts extended release in adults with ADHD. CNS spectrums, 10(12 Suppl 20), 16.

    Biederman, Joseph, Monuteaux, M. C., Spencer, T., Wilens, T. E., & Faraone, S. V. (2009). Do Stimulants Protect Against Psychiatric Disorders in Youth With ADHD? A 10-Year Follow-up Study. Pediatrics, 124(1), 71–78. doi:10.1542/peds.2008-3347

    Vitiello, B. (2001). Long-term effects of stimulant medications on the brain: possible relevance to the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Journal of Child and Adolescent Psychopharmacology, 11(1), 25–34.

    Dodson, W. W. (2005). Pharmacotherapy of adult ADHD. Journal of clinical psychology, 61(5), 589–606.

    Lerner, M., & Wigal, T. (2008). Long-term safety of stimulant medications used to treat children with ADHD. Psychiatric Annals, 38(1), 43.

    Mészáros, A., Czobor, P., Bálint, S., Komlósi, S., Simon, V., & Bitter, I. (2009). Pharmacotherapy of adult attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD): a meta-analysis. The International Journal of Neuropsychopharmacology, 12(08), 1137–1147.

    Rostain, A. L., & Ramsay, J. R. (2006). A combined treatment approach for adults with ADHD—results of an open study of 43 patients. Journal of attention disorders, 10(2), 150–159.

    Wilens, T. E., Spencer, T. J., & Biederman, J. (2001). A review of the pharmacotherapy of adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Journal of Attention Disorders, 5(4), 189–202.

    Poulton, A. (2006). Long-term outcomes of stimulant medication in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Expert review of neurotherapeutics, 6(4), 551–561.

    The information sheet for patients specifically states that it is not an exhaustive list of the potential side effects and directs you on how to find out more information.

    Perhaps you are using the wrong search terms, nothing I found was on any other topic than therapeutic use.

    Yes.

    Some of the pediatric studies spanned 10 years, but still, whether or not you'd call two years long-term seems immaterial; do you have any objective data to suggest that two years is insufficient in assessing the long-term effects of amphetamine-based medications?

    Why would you think that? That would be a ridiculous rule (and for clarity, it is fictitious).

    Oh, I didn't realize your doctor was too busy to be held accountable for mistreating a patient, you think keeping him busy with other patients is really a good idea? Personally, I doubt your doctor really did anything wrong, given how dubious your claims have been.

    The pharmaceutical companies have no say, they can't fight to take them down, the only recent issue even closely related to this that I can think of is the case where a side effect is discovered for a generic formulation, the issue being: should the innovator have to update their own list of side effects, since there really isn't evidence that it occurs with their formulation? I do not remember the outcome of that.

    The FDA also requires that this information be given to the consumer at least when the medication is dispensed, but it is common practice for the doctor to also give the patient (usually more comprehensive) information on the medication before first prescribing it.

    Each physician has to apply for a DEA number and in that form they have to request permission to prescribe each specific schedule, so really you should take that up with the DEA, I guess. In any case, the patient's financial (read, healthcare) situation must also be taken into consideration. Regardless, this doesn't even apply to the OP, he stated that he has talked to a psychiatrist.

    She started Adderall as an adult living away from home. Its lack of negative effects in her case cannot be attributed to her parents' careful monitoring.

    There is much more research out there than what is funded by Shire--consider their competitors, for example. This only convinces me that you are indeed doing something wrong when trying to locate relevant research papers.

    When prescribing their product, of course you're going to get the manufacturer's safety information, that's an enforcement and has nothing to do with pharmaceutical marketing affecting prescribing practices.

    The pharmaceutical companies do in fact provide prescribing information to medical doctors, and, again, patient safety information is required at least upon dispensing the medication--before the patient has taken Adderall for the first time.

    This is still quite controversial, but the majority of studies have not been able to substantiate this and conclude the opposite.

    While your understanding of the effects of amphetamines on dopaminergic nerves has slight inaccuracies or require elaboration, this bit is just flat-out false. Some ADHD medications have little or no affinity for serotonin and still show efficacy. Furthermore, dopaminergic activity along the mesocortical and especially mesolimbic pathways has been well known to play a critical role in motivation, as per the dopamine hypothesis of incentive motivation. Dopaminergic activity along the nigrostriatal pathway is very well known for the effects of 'reward', or euphoria and the sense of wellbeing, as per the dopamine hypothesis of reward.
     
  13. chrischerokee

    chrischerokee Silver Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    The CNS stimulants cocaine and amphetamine are believed to act primarily at catecholamine synapses. Cocaine blocks the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine, while amphetamines cause presynaptic terminals to release these transtmitters.

    According to your statement long term use of adderall will induce parkinsonism in people because of the permanent depletion of dopamine. The only way this would be valid is if a person was to take an MAOI inhibitor along with the adderall.
    MPTP is a protoxin that is converted by monoamine oxidase B to N-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium (MPP+). MPP+ is selectively taken up by cells in the substantia nigra through an active mechanism normally responsible for dopamine reuptake. MPP+ inhibits mitochondrial complex I, thereby inhibiting oxidative phosphorylation. The interaction of MPP+ with complex I probably leads to cell
    death and thus to striatal dopamine depletion and parkinsonism." (Katzung PHARMACOLOGY, 9e > Section V. Drugs That Act in the Central Nervous System > Chapter 28. Pharmacologic Management of Parkinsonism & Other Movement Disorders)

    In addition to this, dopamine is also found elsewhere in the body other than the brain, such as in the GI tract. Dopamine's role in the GI is to regulate sphincter and intragastric pressure. So if amphetamines were to cause permanent depletion of dopamine this would also apply to dopamine in the GI tract as it's interlinked with the CNS, meaning sphincter and gastric pressure would be completely out of control. This simply does not happen at all.

    This is why swim keeps a complete log of his dosage and a fixed-interval schedule to take this drug, one dose at 9:00 am and the other at 3:00 pm. Additionally swim also stops taking adderall once every 3 months for a duration lasting approximately 2 weeks. No noted effects or withdrawal behavior was noted. This log is then given to swims doctor who uses this data in his notes. Swim has 3 years of data logged regarding the use of adderall, and has always taken 10 mg IR only. No more than two doses maximum a day equalling a total of 20 mg, and a second dosage is only taken when needed, for instance if swim has school or homework to do.

    I also forgot to mention that the effect amphetamine has on dopamine receptors is distinguished when the drug is metabolized out of your system. It's because of this reason that someone who decides to abuse the drug for a period of time and then stop experiences withdrawals. The withdrawal effect is from the dopamine levels in the brain being restored to its "natural" state, and the user isn't used to this because of the mechanism of the amphetamine amplified the release of such neurotransmitters. However, when the drug has been metabolized it's also expunged from your body. So as long as a person doesn't keep the drug constantly in their blood stream or keep the drug from fully completing it's metabolism, which you'd have to take adderall every few hours non stop, then there would be no long lasting effect on dopamine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  14. Megan288

    Megan288

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    NOOO, where in the world is Stepin?

    Thanks for the research articles, Staples. Last I heard dr's were expected to interpret medical studies on their own. They are also heavily influenced by pharmaceutical companies.

    Chris, we must speak a different language.

    No Eff Ex, I feel you on your posts about the science of addiction. I don't know why people argue with them. They were good and informative to me.

    Megan288 added 10 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

    I was agreeing with you. What changed? Why do you think people should go to a psychiatrist if now you say that a slip stapled to the pharmacy bag (that many don't look at) is enough for a controlled II substance with black box warnings?

    Megan288 added 1 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

    Nevermind. I don't think this online fight is going to end well. Everyone's facts are bias and Adderall is controversial, period.

    Megan288 added 30 Minutes and 50 Seconds later...
    Geeze I have the exact symptoms of depression. Hadn't looked at those in a while. Thanks for the clear insites. There's a void without you, stepin. NOT happy, just saying

    edit: well yea, I guess the fact that I'm not happy is a given, haha.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  15. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    ? Technical writing isn't supposed to leave room for interpretation. One might identify flawed methodology (if not pointed out in the paper, explicitly, usually followed by a statement like 'more research in this area is necessary')...

    And who else is going to do the initial studies on a novel medication? Still, it is peer-reviewed and must be accepted by the FDA before a doctor would need to consider it. This isn't even a real concern when discussing the influence of pharmaceutical companies on medical practice, so I'm not sure why you bring it up.

    The patient is also required to sign that they have refused consultation from the pharmacist regarding the medication (or ask for consultation). This is not mutually exclusive with seeing a psychiatrist. Your complaint was that this information was not made available to the patient, was it not?
     
  16. Megan288

    Megan288

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    Technical writing might be the problem. Dr's might not know how to transfer that knowledge into everyday language for patients. They have to go to the internet to find people who have had the exact same experiences as them. Then dr.'s in turn have no clue what their pt's are talking about.


    I was just about to say. My writing can be interpreted in many ways. I haven't thought really hard about my statements. I'm not stupid or crazy as you seem to think, and if I made dubious claims, I was trying to tell people what really happened but was misinterpreted and denied in many ways. Which is a frustrating thing to do to people who have experienced adverse reactions to their medication for whatever reason. If you're trying to educate them, that's fine, but if you are telling them they didn't experience what they experienced, you're not treating someone like you should be.


    that's just a formality to everyone... I do that with a zpac and everything else I get when I drive through the pharmacy. I just know that I wasn't as informed as I should have been about Adderall. I don't think being uninformed about your medication before you decide to take the first pill is too terrible of a crime-- granted someone wasn't aware of how different adderall is than other pills. It's an ignorant, careless mistake by the patient. Keyword is ignorant. Dr.'s and companies should deal with the fact that this happens before it happens.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  17. chrischerokee

    chrischerokee Silver Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    I didn't mean to get technical but when someone else is refuting what I'm arguing with inaccurate technical information themselves and no sources to back them up then I must go to the extreme.

    This is another point I was making. I'm glad staples can see eye to eye with me. Everything I've told you isn't my opinion or biased in anyway. It's from sources that have provided these facts doing very little research. Aside from staples and myself, not one person has provided tangible evidence. The thing is Megan you continue to dispute facts and hard evidence. I mean't no offense to you at all, and was only refuting your flawed reasoning. I never once said that you or anyone else here wasn't actually having these experiences. But to blame what you've experienced solely on adderall is invalid.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  18. Megan288

    Megan288

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    I was referring to things I read in good sources. I try not to read sources that aren't reputable so that I don't get my facts confused. I'm just telling you what is true for me.. and what I found in recent research that made it make sense to me. A lot of people don't know science. That's why youre studying it. I hope you dont judge and disagree with people bc that alone will block them from getting the help they desperately need. dont chose drugs over people

    Megan288 added 14 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

    Yes, I do get it now and thanks.

    IDQD, I hope you found the information in some of the posts to you in the beginning. I'm glad they told you the effects adderall is and isn't supposed to have. I should have started my own thread... so annoyin, sorry!!

    Megan288 added 924 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

    Ok, leave me hanging a holes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  19. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Re: Adderall for academia

    Excuse me? Did you have any outstanding questions? I think it has been made clear that it is highly improbable that Adderall is solely to blame for your negative experience (which is what I was referring to as a dubious claim, by the way, I am not saying your negative experience itself is spurious).

    Your proposed mechanism of miscommunication between doctors and patients is blatantly absurd and clearly a stretch. As if the doctor must perform an Internet search using terms that the patient used before arriving at an epiphany (e.g., "Hm, according to these experiences I've found on the Internet, that patient probably meant syncope when she said 'fainting'!"). If this really requires a rebuttal, look no farther than every single profession that exists. Engineers, lawyers, financial analysts, marketing directors, and so on all use technical terms that naturally will be dumbed-down to more lay terms or even metaphors when working with a client, and the client's use of lay terms to describe the desired work are substituted for formal technical terms when the professional performs any documentation meant for others of the same profession, or, when applicable, looking up more information, etc. A case in point from earlier in this thread:
    Finally, the ridiculousness of calling it a formality for pharmacies to have you sign something which legally absolves the pharmacist of the responsibility of providing consultation didn't really seem like it needed a response.

    Personally, I think your last several posts explain a lot about your original statements in this thread: they are based on your own interpretation of documents that are meant to be clear, concise, and complete. It's a presentation of information, 'interpreting' it means you've elucidated meaning beyond what was provided (and thus the original writing couldn't have been understood as complete). You've done this, as you say, when 'it makes sense' to you. So when chrischerokee, myself, and others have tried to tell you that it would be nothing short of remarkable--a scientific anomaly--if your negative experience is completely attributable to the event of having taken Adderall, and that event alone, that clearly conflicted with your (mis)interpretation of (uncited) scientific works. Of course you'll maintain that we're wrong, but in the end we all want the same thing: we want to prevent the spread of unsubstantiated claims that could affect the course of others' treatments and promote valid information on the subject. Even if we are wrong in your particular case, there's no way of anyone (not even you) knowing for certain--your experience was not controlled, and characterized by a sample size of 1.

    Giving your own experience is fine, but making ridiculous claims tends to be met with skepticism by other users who have enough knowledge on the subject to recognize the misrepresentation and (hopefully) challenge/correct it.

    I think I've addressed any possibly lingering concerns. Next time you feel ignored, please try to express it in a more polite manner.
     
  20. Megan288

    Megan288

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    Re: Adderall for academia


    Staples? What part of that made you feel the need to reiterate everything you have said before? I know what you are, you're a selfish, douchebag, jerk. People will either leave relationships with you depressed or pissed off.


    Go sue someone a hole.

    Megan288 added 79 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

    This comes straight from the adderall side effects sheet. This blames adderall and adderall alone. You need to rethink your approach to my complaints about adderall. On top of this, quite a few adverse effects have been associated with adderall. So, I think your extremely bias opinion in favor of Adderall and against the people having the new problems since they started using Adderall is not helpful.

    Emergence of New Psychotic or Manic Symptoms Treatment-emergent psychotic or manic symptoms, e.g., hallucinations, delusional thinking, or mania in children and adolescents without prior history of psychotic illness or mania can be caused by stimulants at usual doses. If such symptoms occur, consideration should be given to a possible causal role of the stimulant, and discontinuation of treatment may be appropriate. (Shire full prescribing information)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012