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Opinions - Best sleeping pill?

Discussion in 'Downers and sleeping pills' started by bubaloo, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. marleysherb

    marleysherb Newbie

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    Most peeps use benzo's for sleep. Ambien isn't technically a benzo, but
    it also works for some. Lunesta gave me a bad taste. horrid. Right now
    I use xanax to sleep and for panic attacks/anxiety disorder. Works
    great at 6mg's a day. I usually take only 1/2 mg when I'm home all day,
    but it does put me to sleep at 1mg. Usually I eat to make the effect
    less "groggy". Just my insite.
     
  2. wearestardust

    wearestardust

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    Personally I find that the 'Z' drugs are too quick to build up tolerance. The same can be said of the true benzos, but if you rotate 15mg Flormidal brand midazolam and 2mg flunitrazepam, ensuring at least two med-free nights per week you should have no probs and regain a normal sleep pattern. My overall favourite is definitely FLORMIDAL 15mg.
    W.A.Stardust
     
  3. YeOldeLobster

    YeOldeLobster

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    SWIM is on 400mg seroquel queitapine for his bipolar, he finds that taking that and some diazepam, knocks him out, the quetiapine makes his eyes blur and then just fall asleep, and the diazepam just sends him into slow hibernation
     
  4. wearestardust

    wearestardust

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    It's mainly prescribed as a drug for tapering people off a bad alcohol habit. Worst thing about it is the burning feeling in your nose!
    WAStardust
     
  5. wearestardust

    wearestardust

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    I stand by Flormidal. (15mg midazolam). It is the most powerful of all the benzo hypnotics, but I should have said in my post that you have to be really careful with this one; don't mix with any other downers and certainly never touch it if you've had alcohol that day/evening - it CAN cause problems with respiratory depression in those circumstances. I don't want to wake up dead. The milder ones SWIM finds useful are 2mg flunitrazepam and 30mg temazepam. (Though 60mg is a better dose.) The down to temazepam is the groggy feeling next day which you don't get with the others.
    The 'Z' drugs just build up too much tolerance too quickly. Zopiclone and Zolpidem are virtually useless for sleep after 5-7 days' use.
    WAStardust
     
  6. eltimmy

    eltimmy Silver Member

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    When SWIM was using these, SWIM preferred zolpidem over zopiclone:

    a) zolpidem has selectivity for the supposed target of hypnotics compared to zopiclone, which has more of the properties of a regular benzodiazepine
    b) relative to zopiclone, zolpidem is much less habit-forming (taken at prescribed doses)
    c) zopiclone's half-life -- 6 hours -- is too long, causing SWIM to feel dulled well into the next day. The Ambien CR formulation is approximately 2.6 hours half-life. Perfect for SWIM's purposes
    d) No shitty taste in the mouth from zolpidem.
    e) Zolpidem in studies produced a normal sleep architecture, whereas zopiclone's was a little off. Subjectively, SWIM got nightmares in the latter half of sleep from zopiclone -- SWIM theorizes this is due to GABA rebound (as mentioned above, zopiclone is more promiscuous (that's the neurochemical term ;-)) in the receptors that it effects, and SWIM for various reasons strongly disfavors benzodiazepines).

    SWIM no longer uses them as SWIM has been sleeping well for the past few months by maintaining good sleep hygiene as well as a diligent morning aerobic exercise program.
     
  7. Big Fella

    Big Fella Silver Member

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    Ambien vote from me, prescribed them a few times and they work well enough, they were once stolen by Rambo, who later wrote me a letter telling me that he took four of them and it was a very pleasent experiene.

    I was gutted he stole them, but though the letter was a nice touch.
     
  8. indira3

    indira3

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    Hello,
    I'm a GP and living in Europe (not practising any longer). Please excuse my bad english!
    I've been on rohypnol (1-2 mg/evening) for 10 years, and switched to distraneurin (clomethiazole) 2 yrs ago as I thought roh made me feel depressed. To make things worse (I had a terrible hangover during the day following distra (5 caps in the evening)) I started to take both of them (no need to say I am no longer practicing, but mostly because of an accident), roh covering the severe anxiety of distra's hangover during the day - but I felt personality changes (severe depression despite prozac) and wanted to quit the one or the other. The problem is distra makes you feel high with wonderful dreams (well, in my case) and now, trying to get rid of it, I need 6 rohs, antihistamines, tranxilium and alcohol for a 4 hours' sleep - so I think I will come back to distra. Does anybody knows what are long-term side effects of distra? I have severe bleeding gums and wonder if it's not due to it. Anyway.... it's becoming a nightmare for me. zopi, a.s.o., have no more effect (+severe somnambulism at night). Thank you!!!!!
     
  9. wearestardust

    wearestardust

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    Can I ask two questions please? They relate to two of the most recent posts. First, what is the 'CR' formulation of zopiclone? I don't think such a thing is available in UK. The other is, what is Tranxilium? Is it a brand-name for some benzo that we all know, or something else entirely, like clormethiazole (Heminevrin)?
    The zopiclone available here is simply Stilnoct, the original made by the inventors (or should I say developers) of zopiclone, Sanofi. It is available in 5 and 10mg strengths, but I never heard of it being suffixed with 'CR' which brings 'Controlled Release' to mind; not something a sleeping aid would usually have! Tranxilium is a brand I have never heard of. Maybe I should google it. Is it a German brand by any chance? And I agree with the previous poster, Indira, that SWIM's opinion of flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) is that it tends to be prescribed for insomnia associated with anxiety problems or night-panics, the 2mg tablets having a distinct anxiolytic effect which can carry through to the next day. Doctors seem increasingly reluctant to prescribe it nowadays. Why, I don't know - it is a very useful sleeper for those with anxiety issues. And they have stopped prescribing the 2mg tablets now altogether; only the 1mg Roche brand is available for docs to prescribe since none of our generic companies here appear to offer flunitrazepam at all in any strength.
    WAStardust
     
  10. wearestardust

    wearestardust

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    Sorry, I should have added that in place of flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) doctors are trying to prescribe more of the 'Z' meds; but they are reluctant to prescribe ANY sleeping aid now except in chronic cases, or for short-term problems caused by, for instance, bereavement or a particularly stressful life-event. Also, and I have asked this elsewhere but never got an answer - is it true that flunitrazepam is now not available for doctors to prescribe in the USA? I read that somewhere recently. It can't be anything to do with the so-called 'date-rape' connotations (Rohypnol tablets have an indigo dye in them and are not soluble in drinks, so the 'victim' would notice immediately that their drink had turned a quite dark blue and would be full of grit with a scum on top. Not to mention that the outer coating is a hard gelatinous substance which doesn't dissolve until meeting stomach acid or something!) Only some 2mg flunitrazzies from Central Europe would not leave a drink uncoloured, and even they wouldn't dissolve so that the drinker would not notice that something was wrong. All in all, in the opinion of SWIM, it is one of the most useful sleepers, along with his particular favourite, Flormidal (midazolam).
     
  11. indira3

    indira3

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    Hello Wearastardust
    tranxilium (sorry, I should have known commercial names are different:)))
    is clorazepam. In fact, being perhaps less addictive or potent than roh, I might mix roh and tranx (I use tranx instead of clor in order not to get donfused with clomethiazole/heminevrin/distraneurin), plus clormethiazole in order to get a better sleep. I doubt as to being able to reduce dosages with time..... but let's try it this way, for a while, and then taper dosages.
    Here in switzerland roh has always been available (roche...), but it's only available now as 1 mg tabs, blue colored. I know distra has been taken off the market in several countries (potentially lethal, as are barbiturates.) I'm a newbie here, but could anybody explain to me the detailed mechanism of action of these drugs on GABA-receptors?? distraneurin acts on it PLUS on its chlor-channel, making it therefore more potent or acting more quickly... but it's quite confusing. I thought neurontin (antiepileptic) could perhaps help in tapering benzos' and distra's dosages....?
     
  12. chrisdahl

    chrisdahl

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    That's strange,i'm in the UK and went to my docs recently and told him i was struggling to sleep because I had been abusing GHB and Lorazepam/Alprazolam and he wrote me a script for Zolpidem despite me been hospitalized because of a Benzo overdose two months prior

    What makes you say that doc's are reluctant to write scripts for Zolpidem? They are very easy to get legitimately
     
  13. indira3

    indira3

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    I wonder if it's not because zolpidem often cause somnambulism and nocturnal hyperphagia (I read an article about it months ago, a problem specific for zolpidem) - that is also why I switched from zolpi to roh, with which I sleep like a baby (combined with chlomethiazole of course); zolpi caused me to get up and take my car to the next chocolate automat during the night, with the result that I often had car scratches or totally damaged tyres the next morning with no memory about it...
     
  14. upperdecker

    upperdecker

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    Ambien never made SWIM tired at all, all it did was make SWIM feel like he was almost tripping. The best sleeping medicine SWIM has come across would definitely be Seroquel. That stuff will knock you out all night.
     
  15. indira3

    indira3

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    Seroquel is an a antipsychotic - then you have to find out a psychiatrist who orders it to you (at least in Europe...)- Zolpidem caused me to deambulate and slide in the bachtroom - after which I lost consciousness and, with bloodstains all over, i got up ahd saw I had a double eye hematoma and diplopia - a sign a skull basis fracture. I did recover but I still miss 30% energy and drive, as well as severe memlory loss and concentration impairment. I'll thrive to get zolpidem out of the market. Seroquel is still unknown to me as a S:p. I can stille try try out. Thanks.
     
  16. wearestardust

    wearestardust

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    I believe I made a mistake in one of my above posts; I did not mean ZOPICLONE CR but ZOLPIDEM CR. That's the formulation I haven't seen here. Certainly you can easily get ordinary zolpidem (Stilnoct brand, 5 or 10mg). Another sleeping aid that has helped SWIWAS in the past is the old favourite nitrazepam. 10mg of that should ensure a decent sleep. But as I said before, flunitrazepam and midazolam are difficult to beat in terms of effectiveness.

    Addition to above: midazolam is not available in tablet form in the UK and flunitrazepam requires a private prescription, not being available on the National Health Service.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2007
  17. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

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    I was reading MIMS (the prescribing reference for the GP) recently and it seems midazolam is available on prescription in the UK, in tablet form. UK doctors really don't like prescribing benzo's anyway.

    Taking benzodiazepines for insomnia is not a good idea, they loose thier hypnotic effects quickly, not to mention the withdrawal. Drugs like zolpidem and zopiclone are better options IMO. SWIM is prescribed 7.5mg of zopiclone and finds it effective.

    As far as over the counter sleep aids go, diphenhydramide is probably the best and most effective.

    Some work for some monkeys, some don't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2007
  18. indira3

    indira3

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    As said before, I first thought zolpidem the best alternative; somehow, suffering each night from somnambulism, and aafter severla sever traumas, the worst having taken place 1 month ago (cerebral commotion with skull fractures and amnesia), I consider it more dangerous than flura/flunitrazepam.
     
  19. Steva

    Steva

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    Amen.
    Swim loves the buzz off Ambien.
    He was taking 6 during the day for the buzz effect.
    Also put stomach asleep so swim lost weight ala phen/Fen.
    Swim no longer uses Zolpidem.
    A few beers and 1mg gador xanax
    will induce swim to sleep.
    Swim did take Seconal,Nembutol,Tuinal many years ago
    and they were more effective than ambien.
     
  20. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

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    Flunitrazepam is the best sleeping pill SWIM says. Close second either midazolam or triazolam.